The Way We See Low Functioning is Wrong!

[Crossbreed]

...or anything that's not a parent... describing their own kid.

I'm an Aspie [ASD1]. I have no NT agenda. (Autism is one of my perseverations...)

 

[Crossbreed]

What happens, though, if they don't want or aren't interested in communicating at all with people?

Language is still seen (in one form or another) when they express their needs, pain, etc.

When my ASD3 daughter was very young, she appeared to be deaf because she didn't respond to our voice.

1. The doctor ran an otoacoustic emission test, confirming her hearing.
2. She used to run to her playroom door whenever she heard the electric can-opener running.

 

[Mary Anne]

Would be considered to have the "mental age" of someone even younger, at least in this context.



There are so-called low-functioning people on this forum. I am not going to pretend I know who all of them are, let alone out the ones I am aware of, but you should really consider that "functioning" is something other than thinking. You can't reason your way to fine motor skills. I sure can't reason my way to executive functioning.

It pains me that the term “low-functioning” is even used here, but clearly, everyone needs to communicate in whatever way words describe because this is a forum that uses words. I was merely trying to defend parents and family members who cannot be “objective” as we wish them to be. Someone NOT inside of a “so-called low-functioning” body would obviously be unaware of the thoughts and desires of someone who does not communicate in understandable ways. Multiply this for the general public by about a million times over. If we look at nature - for ALL species- when something is outside the norm, the population generally shuns, doesn’t know what to do, and sometimes destroys those born different! ND people can be persistent in making their abilities known and their needs met. That being said, not every single ND person has those capabilities to educate or communicate. On top of that, some of society just refuses to accept or understand, even IF they could.

 

[dragonwolf]

I disagree, if someone is able to understand this forum, read/write and participate in it, then they are not on the lower functioning end of the autistic spectrum because they are comprehending things at a higher level. My adult brothers couldn't comprehend what a forum was for instance, plus they can't read/write, count to 5, tell the time and they have a similar understanding of much of the world as a 2 or 3 year old child, except in some ways they're not like children at all. They are still intelligent in other ways however, but there is absolutely no possible way they'd ever be-able to participate in this forum, unless someone else was writing in their name which wouldn't really be them.

That's not how the "functioning" level diagnosis works, and is part of the reason it's so wrong.

There are many people on this forum who have an official diagnosis of "low functioning" and may even have been told that they have a "mental age" of whatever lower number than their chronological age.

Language capability in whatever capacity and things like executive function are not mutually inclusive and it's harmful to assume that they are. I can't tell you how many times I've been dismissed and left to my own devices and told "you're smart, figure it out," when a situation has crossed paths with one of the things that I literally cannot do. It's like telling a blind person to "figure out" how to see.

One of my favorite articles is this one, written by a man with "low functioning" non-verbal autism. According to all of the tests that he had as a child, he supposedly had an IQ of no more than 70. Yet once he found a way to communicate, it became clear to those around him that that wasn't the case. His intelligence is at least average, if not a little above, and it turns out that he's really good at math and science.

That's one of the biggest fatal flaws of almost any test created by NTs -- it presumes the ability to communicate a certain way, and if the person can't do that, then it's determined that they're deficient, not the test. It's like giving a monolingual Chinese person a test in English and blaming the Chinese person for not understanding it.

 

[Fridgemagnetman]

It's like giving a monolingual Chinese person a test in English and blaming the Chinese person for not understanding it.

Like the English man abroad stereotype :
Can you speak English?

I SAID CAN YOU SPEAK ENGLISH?

(Englishman mutters,there must be something wrong with him)

 

[Mary Anne]

I agree! But my point is that we should not get all angry at family, parents for feeling or coping in any manner in which they do. The discussion was initially in response to the anger at which a parent was discussing their own children! This should be a safe space for them too.

 

[Mary Anne]

Also, we ALL have to start somewhere, right? Established forms are what we all go by on this planet. The question is then, how do WE continue to change what the established forms of communication are? I can understand the frustration and anger but how can we do this? If I am in China, should I get mad at the Chinese for NOT understanding me when I speak only English??? I do not think that’s fair.

 

[pjcnet]

That's not how the "functioning" level diagnosis works, and is part of the reason it's so wrong.

There are many people on this forum who have an official diagnosis of "low functioning" and may even have been told that they have a "mental age" of whatever lower number than their chronological age.

Language capability in whatever capacity and things like executive function are not mutually inclusive and it's harmful to assume that they are. I can't tell you how many times I've been dismissed and left to my own devices and told "you're smart, figure it out," when a situation has crossed paths with one of the things that I literally cannot do. It's like telling a blind person to "figure out" how to see.

One of my favorite articles is this one, written by a man with "low functioning" non-verbal autism. According to all of the tests that he had as a child, he supposedly had an IQ of no more than 70. Yet once he found a way to communicate, it became clear to those around him that that wasn't the case. His intelligence is at least average, if not a little above, and it turns out that he's really good at math and science.

That's one of the biggest fatal flaws of almost any test created by NTs -- it presumes the ability to communicate a certain way, and if the person can't do that, then it's determined that they're deficient, not the test. It's like giving a monolingual Chinese person a test in English and blaming the Chinese person for not understanding it.

You see I disagree that the person who wrote that article truly had low functioning autism at the time he wrote it even if they did diagnose him earlier, his abilities and comprehension are vastly greater than both my brothers and other people I've met who are truly on the lower functioning part of the spectrum. That said if I was born later I could have been diagnosed with low functioning autism too because as young child I couldn't speak or do most things a "normal" young child could and at the time I was functioning with a low level of comprehension, but then unlike both my brothers I started overcoming it and I started to functioning with a higher level of comprehension, but it still left me with numerous autistic traits.

 

[Crossbreed]

You see I disagree that the person who wrote that article truly had low functioning autism at the time he wrote it...

I believe they are saying a person can be diagnosed ASD3 for more reasons than just being preliterate. That is why I proposed that we should be more specific in the descriptions of your brothers, my daughter and @Gracey's cousin(?).

 

[All-Rounder]

Language is still seen (in one form or another) when they express their needs, pain, etc.

When my ASD3 daughter was very young, she appeared to be deaf because she didn't respond to our voice.

1. The doctor ran an otoacoustic emission test, confirming her hearing.
2. She used to run to her playroom door whenever she heard the electric can-opener running.

Most of my autist friends have a high tolerance with pain and they don't react from it. My HFA ex dislocated her knee and walked normally for half an hour before tapping her teacher's shoulder and letting her know she dislocated her knee and needed assistance.

My boyfriend has not got normal needs, being wired much differently, as well as I could say he is a machine that can control his needs very well. Most autists I met and got to talk to think of themselves more as of machines or computers. Some seem to have amazing self control and un-needy logical thinking.

 

[Rick79]

Yes, it' true! This is the case of Tito Rajarshi Mukhopadhyay. I read his book entitled "How Can I Talk If My Lips Don't Move?" It's amazing! Because of his behavioural traits and the fact that he could not speak, health care professionals thought he had mental retardation. But, when he learned to write, he showed to the world how intelligent he is!

 

[Ylva]

You see I disagree that the person who wrote that article truly had low functioning autism at the time he wrote it even if they did diagnose him earlier, his abilities and comprehension are vastly greater than both my brothers and other people I've met who are truly on the lower functioning part of the spectrum

Well, as long as you know better than the professionals what low-functioning looks like.

Functioning has nothing to do with IQ.

Jesus Christ.

 

[tree]

The topic of this thread is to discuss the views
commonly held regarding the meaning of
"low functioning autism" and when possible, to
offer alternative points of view.

Insults and bickering have no place in this discussion.

Further posts should direct attention toward
the topic.

 

[pjcnet]

Well, as long as you know better than the professionals what low-functioning looks like.

Functioning has nothing to do with IQ.

Jesus Christ.

Actually I'd say I know a lot more than the so called "professionals" since I've been bought up with 2 lower functioning autistic brothers and since I've met numerous too, giving me 46 years experience since my 1st brother was born, how many "professionals" have had this much experience and also have first hand experience of being on the higher functioning end of the autistic spectrum too by being born autistic? I don't always agree with many so called "professionals" who are almost always NTs with often very little first hand experience, they are inconsistent from one "expert" to the next, plus diagnosis and goal posts keep changing with time, in fact they struggle to agree anything with each-other. I didn't say it was anything to do with IQ, but someone who is truly lower functioning autistic wouldn't be-able to comprehend a traditional IQ test. That said I don't believe an IQ test is always an accurate measurement of intelligence, please click here for my response to another thread regarding IQ tests.

 

[Nitro]

 

[Misery]

Okay, here's a question: What exactly is the actual purpose of arguing about these bloody labels? Aside from perhaps serving a function in getting, I dunno, disability status (in which case, they only even conceivably apply when a professional in the field is the one using them)... do these actually have a purpose? Beyond confusing the heck out of everyone? I mean, this sure as heck aint exactly helping anyone to learn anything.

I'll never understand why people worry about labels so much. Particularly when characteristics vary WILDLY with autism in a general sense. From even just a practical standpoint, this renders the labels utterly pointless. Hell, the fact that there even is so much arguing about this kinda shows that these are so freaking ambiguous that they dont even make sense.

As it is, like most arguements about confusing/ambiguous things, this seems a bit silly overall.

 

[Rayner]

ASD stands for Autism Spectrum Disorder.

Thanks! What does ASD stand for and where should I go to read up on this classification system? I


Yeah, but how would you like a family member dealing a lifetime with these challenges to describe their children with intensive Autism? I am pretty sure there are plenty of scientists who sound descriptively objective. Parents, and family are emotionally attached and therefore not objective at all. Also, the world is filled with sad things that “should have”, ‘could have,” or should have been more fair. A toddler with extreme cognitive difficulties might not be able to interact with a parent OR the parent might FEEL that they can’t interact. At the very least, a parent might not understand HOW to interact, and do not know the toddler’s communication styles.

 

[Ylva]

I didn't say it was anything to do with IQ, but someone who is truly lower functioning autistic wouldn't be-able to comprehend a traditional IQ test.

Sounds like you are saying it has something to do with IQ.

What I wonder is why you get to redfine these things. Maybe, if you must, you could give what you are talking about a different name? I liked Crossbreed's "preliterate ASD3", but as you say it doesn't work for you.

The IQ scale has many, many flaws, not arguing there. It is still a thing.

 

[Ylva]

I'm an Aspie [ASD1]. I have no NT agenda. (Autism is one of my perseverations...)

Okay, I knew that. Sorry I went off on you; the whole "mental age" thing frustrates me to no end. You know best if thinking about/treating your daughter like a neurotypical one-and-a-half-year-old works better than thinking about/treating her like a twenty-three-year-old autistic, or whatever. I will stick with my priors until I see some very convincing objective evidence, but that has and should have no effect on your relationship with your kids.

 

[Karen S.]

I completely agree with this point - I don't know much about pop culture or sport either, but that doesn't mean that I'm not intelligent. I remember when I was younger, I sometime played a board game, Trivial Pursuit, with questions on entertainment, arts & literature, sport, history, geography, science & nature, and I always sucked at the arts & literature, sports and entertainment questions, but was relatively good at science & nature, geography and history. Most people I played against were the opposite.

One of my students once told me, "I'm amazed at the things you know, and the things that you don't know"

Ah Yes, Trivial Pursuit, fun game! It was very popular at the same time I was reading the Encyclopedia for fun! Relatives actually wanted me on their team!