The World Is Doomed

[Gerontius]

Wow. Ok. I'm not familiar with any of that.

It was a shocker to me too, but at college (very conservative, ultra Catholic school that has oaths the faculty swears to fight Modernism) the professor carried on for two weeks in a history of western civ class about how the world was doomed, etc.

Unfortunately a lot of his talking points were straight out of the medieval nonsense that was used to give the Jews hell for several centuries, and believe it or not, it ended up paving the way for pogroms under tsarist Russian rule and setting up the cultural background for Hitler's rise in the unstable Weimar years.

(There, I invoked Godwin's Law, because it's funny... but true in this case!)

Anyway, it's amazing how much of the points in the antiestablishment stuff tracks with either advancing the far right, or finding another Other to crap on. This also advances the far right.

If you love democracy and liberty and hate tyranny please read Umberto Eco. He and Sinclair Lewis were foresighted.

 

[Magna]

No one "deserves" anything, not even love and respect.

I disagree about the "anything" part of your statement as well as the "respect" part (on a basic level). Humans deserve to be treated with respect by other humans to the basic level of not being intentionally harmed by others. You shouldn't have to "earn" bodily autonomy. Whether a person "earns" other kinds of respect in general is left to individual opinion, but bodily autonomy is deserved.

"No one "deserves" to expect that they will not be robbed, raped, molested, physically hurt or even killed by another person." < Wrong.

"No one deserves the right to defend themselves from an aggressor. If someone is beating them up, raping, molesting or trying to kill them, a person should just stay still and let it happen." < Wrong.

People DO deserve to expect personal safety from each other.

 

[Neonatal RRT]

I disagree about the "anything" part of your statement as well as the "respect" part (on a basic level). Humans deserve to be treated with respect by other humans to the basic level of not being intentionally harmed by others. You shouldn't have to "earn" bodily autonomy. Whether a person "earns" other kinds of respect in general is left to individual opinion, but bodily autonomy is deserved.

"No one "deserves" to expect that they will not be robbed, raped, molested, physically hurt or even killed by another person." < Wrong.

"No one deserves the right to defend themselves from an aggressor. If someone is beating them up, raping, molesting or trying to kill them, a person should just stay still and let it happen." < Wrong.

People DO deserve to expect personal safety from each other.

Fair enough. I do agree with what you are saying. Perhaps my words were not as accurate as they should have been. Your examples above were not, at all, in my thoughts. I was more thinking in terms of general, everyday interactions with people, not acts of violence.

Perhaps my point was more about the social contract that we have with others. I want to get away from the language of "deserve" or perhaps feelings of "entitlement". This idea that there is an "expectation", if you will, and if you don't feel as if you've received "your fair share", then there is something wrong, that it isn't fair, then jealousy and envy corrupt your mind. Sometimes you have to actually give in order to receive. Furthermore, things like love and respect, are, in part, earned to a certain extent. If I respect you, if I respect myself, then perhaps you might respect me, and vice-versa, but that is not a given, certainly not in any personal or professional interactions or relations I have ever experienced. Sure, we have a moral and cultural rules to respect others, at a basic level, but if you want anything more from the relationship it's always been give and take. Love, is similar in that way. Even with a baby or a pet, there is an unwritten social contract, there is an exchange of affection that may be perceived or interpreted as love. So, I think it might have something to do with the perspective and context.

 

[Knower of nothing]

Fair enough. I do agree with what you are saying. Perhaps my words were not as accurate as they should have been. Your examples above were not, at all, in my thoughts. I was more thinking in terms of general, everyday interactions with people, not acts of violence.

Perhaps my point was more about the social contract that we have with others. I want to get away from the language of "deserve" or perhaps feelings of "entitlement". This idea that there is an "expectation", if you will, and if you don't feel as if you've received "your fair share", then there is something wrong, that it isn't fair, then jealousy and envy corrupt your mind. Sometimes you have to actually give in order to receive. Furthermore, things like love and respect, are, in part, earned to a certain extent. If I respect you, if I respect myself, then perhaps you might respect me, and vice-versa, but that is not a given, certainly not in any personal or professional interactions or relations I have ever experienced. Sure, we have a moral and cultural rules to respect others, at a basic level, but if you want anything more from the relationship it's always been give and take. Love, is similar in that way. Even with a baby or a pet, there is an unwritten social contract, there is an exchange of affection that may be perceived or interpreted as love. So, I think it might have something to do with the perspective and context.

It took me a while but I think I know why this bothers me. The whole notion of the social contract and the expectation that causes the sense of unfairness is the exact same thing. You are suggesting one is bad and the other is the way things are, yet they are the same thing. The feeling of betrayal, the core of "how could you do this to me?" which any person on this earth would utter when sufficiently wronged, is the expression of an expectation not being met. The breaking of an unwritten contract.
Because the contracts are shaped by habits and things we are used to. Symbiosis is happenstance. And no one is immune to the sting of disappointment. All in moderation, but there is no clear divide in perspective here.

 

[All-Rounder]

I hate everything that is going on. The more I think about the more I don’t understand it

The people who survive are the ones without souls. Soulless folks tend to do good because the system is designed to fail us, make us worthless

Men, women, neurotypicals, everyone else, nobody is up to not good

I will never get what I deserve, not because I don’t work hard or don’t do good, but because society don’t want us to do good

Truth is no one is better than me, but social media makes it seem like everyone is better. That’s the way of life

It sounds to me you had an important eye-opening experience that you struggle to adapt to. Perhaps you understand it but can't accept it?

What comes to mind is that corruption is at the core of everything that surrounds us, and it is a reliable constant that has no future fix due to adaptation of the corruption and the payoffs of it.

Many people have accepted it and even think of it as normal, and it's sickening to me, but most people have different values than mine, the more I hang with such people the more life sucks.

As humans, there are things we can't control, like getting robbed, stumbling upon public drama, shocking events.

As autistic people, we can only hope to wrong or be seen as wrong, it's life to us. Coping with that is insanity, it's really the opposite of corruption, we don't adapt to such.

Autism is the hardest condition all around. It affects our private life, not only relationships, it affects even the way we walk on the street, every detail.

Be kind to yourself.

Truth is no one is better than me - truth thy spoketh. But there are people who will try to alter that truth

 

[Forest Cat]

What comes to mind is that corruption is at the core of everything that surrounds us, and it is a reliable constant that has no future fix due to adaptation of the corruption and the payoffs of it.

Many people have accepted it and even think of it as normal, and it's sickening to me, but most people have different values than mine, the more I hang with such people the more life sucks.

Maybe it's not about accepting it or peoples values but that people know it's inevitable and a part of life on this planet. It's not like not accepting it changes anything. There are several things I don't like but there's nothing I can do about it. And I have learned that life is much harder when you try to fight things you can't possibly change.

 

[All-Rounder]

Jealousy, low esteem, you name it, it isnt helpful to autism. Autism makes it hard enough, in the times you have ideally you would relax and recharge, instead of feeling like this, but that's not always achievable.

I figure its senseless, every reward in the world is just a sense of achievement while the individual is still in point zero imagining they have things. People can be happy with or without that thing. I think the world is centered around complex superficiality. Some is harder to think outside the box of, that's why it's complex.

I think each of us humans can be a better reader, artist, kisser than another, the true value of a person is beyond that. Just like loyalty helps people stick to their friends regardless how bad of a singer they are, and affection, which are gifts that transcend others and can show their significance in practice.

 

[Neonatal RRT]

It took me a while but I think I know why this bothers me. The whole notion of the social contract and the expectation that causes the sense of unfairness is the exact same thing. You are suggesting one is bad and the other is the way things are, yet they are the same thing. The feeling of betrayal, the core of "how could you do this to me?" which any person on this earth would utter when sufficiently wronged, is the expression of an expectation not being met. The breaking of an unwritten contract.
Because the contracts are shaped by habits and things we are used to. Symbiosis is happenstance. And no one is immune to the sting of disappointment. All in moderation, but there is no clear divide in perspective here.

Sometimes, there are distinct conditions, that sometimes, under some circumstances, may cross over. There are levels of relationships, as well. Like a 3D Venn diagram where situational context and perspective are important. They aren't the same thing, per se.

Example: As Magna, pointed out, two people, complete strangers, may have some core moral beliefs to not engage in physical violence and to have some basic mutual respect. There's a very "low bar" in terms of expectations. One type of social contract. However, if these same two people then engage in a personal or professional relationship, then, we are now subject to THAT social contract. Now, this type of relationship enhances the importance of give and take, the expectations. At this point, these two people, if they do not satisfy the expectations of each other, in one way or another, then there is going to be more of a tendency to be disappointed due to some sense of a critical imbalance in the relationship. During an imbalance in this social contract, perspective and context is important. If one person has a sense of entitlement, some warped sense of expectation, or doesn't understand the importance of reciprocation, is willing to receive, but not give in kind, then that social contract will fail. This person gets upset that they "should" receive more, when they, themselves have not reciprocated. There is an imbalance. "Why can't I make friends or find love?" "Why can't I keep a job?" "Why do some people excel in personal and professional relationships, and I can't?" "It's not fair." They don't understand that they, themselves, have failed.

It could be an imbalance in what each other give, in terms of value, to a relationship. Let's say, a person who is physically and mentally able to work, specifically chooses to not engage in work, not "unemployed" per se in terms of "lost work" statistics, but is seeking to live off of assistance programs. If the source is accurate This Is Why 7 Million Men Refuse to Work, According to Dave Ramsey, in the US, some 7 million men, 25-40, perfectly capable people, have specifically chosen to take themselves out of the workforce. So, many of these people "expect" to receive checks from government agencies, they "depend" upon them, they think they are "entitled" to money, paid for via the taxes paid in by working individuals. People who are working to support these parasites sense an "injustice". There is an imbalance. Both think that they are "wronged".

In both examples, if there is a disparity in that "expectation" of that contract. If someone expects "something for nothing" this is bad, both parties in the social/professional contract are sensing unfairness. One rightfully so, and one due to some sense of entitlement, or some distorted view of the relationship.

In my view, it's situations like this that lead to divorce, to unemployment, to the fleecing of our tax dollars, to the homeless situations in many large cities, to anger and frustration across huge populations of people, to the political divide, to people just generally disliking other people, etc.

 

[All-Rounder]

It's not a mindset that creates danger, it is the reaction to it which can cause this doom feeling, thought, opinion to create chaos in reality.

 

[MNAus]

I hate everything that is going on. The more I think about the more I don’t understand it

The people who survive are the ones without souls. Soulless folks tend to do good because the system is designed to fail us, make us worthless

Men, women, neurotypicals, everyone else, nobody is up to not good

I will never get what I deserve, not because I don’t work hard or don’t do good, but because society don’t want us to do good

Truth is no one is better than me, but social media makes it seem like everyone is better. That’s the way of life

I think I understand where you're coming from, though maybe there are other ways of expressing it that don't earn suggestions of "well what have you done?"

I think there is something about people with autism that they hold things like fairness in high esteem. We also often see things black and white. I still remember the first time I encountered outright cheating at work. I was gobsmacked - "that's WRONG" - and waited for authority to set things straight. They never arrived. I was disadvantaged and this person went on to have a very successful career, cheating the whole way. They will likely never get a comeuppance.

I think it comes from childhood. All kids are told things about good things happen to good kids, and bad kids will get there just desserts. I think the ASD kids store that away as fact, the NT kids store that away as something to be bent.

So we enter the workplace with the ideas from the movies, songs, and our parents' words ringing in our ears that "hard work pays off". But it doesn't really. There are many many people working their socks off who can barely afford to stay in their home.

So what can we do? My instinctive reaction are anger, frustration, determination in that order. Determination first to change everyone else, and when that seems hopeless to change myself. In the words of Kryten "Don't you think I'd love to be deceitful, unpleasant, and offensive? Those are the human qualities I admire the most! But I just can't do it."

But what we need to do is accept. Not say we're supportive of it, but accept that's how things are. And also believe that we WILL do fine despite that. We don't have to change, the world doesn't have to change, and we WILL do fine.

 

[All-Rounder]

The people who survive are the ones without souls. - Nature has favored plants killing each other at times for existence and territory. Quite dark.

neurotypicals, everyone else - I used to have an abnormally positive opinion about the spectrum people, I have gotten over it.

 

[Jonn]

I hate everything that is going on. The more I think about the more I don’t understand it

The people who survive are the ones without souls. Soulless folks tend to do good because the system is designed to fail us, make us worthless

Men, women, neurotypicals, everyone else, nobody is up to not good

I will never get what I deserve, not because I don’t work hard or don’t do good, but because society don’t want us to do good

Truth is no one is better than me, but social media makes it seem like everyone is better. That’s the way of life

All societies are built on the foundation of corruption bc human psychology is fundamentally corrupt.

"Power corrupts...
Absolute power tends to corrupt absolutely...."

"Such is life..."
"Deal with it..."

 

[Jonn]

I used to have an abnormally positive opinion about the spectrum people, I have gotten over it.

#Metoo

 

[Jonn]

“Ask not what your country can do for you – ask what you can do for your country.” (John F. Kennedy's ghost writer.)

Fixed it for you.

 

[Jonn]

Wouldn't the world be a better place for everyone if you also, besides doing things for yourself, also did things for others?

If you are drowning, not drowning is understandably your first priority.

 

[Jonn]

I'm over the bullies in life.

 

[All-Rounder]

If you are drowning, not drowning is understandably your first priority.

It doesn't work for some sentences:

If you are autistic, not being autistic is your first priority.

Perhaps you are doomed
to drown.

 

[Jonn]

Acts of service, humbleness, and kindness can go a long way, both in making the world better, and in improving one's connections with others and the world.

A wise old hound dog once said:
"I am not here to change the world...
There isn't a big enough dirty nappy bin in existence..."

The following is too saccharine-sweet for this old dawg, but there are things to consider:

Desiderata - Words for Life​

Go placidly amid the noise and haste,
and remember what peace there may be in silence.
As far as possible without surrender
be on good terms with all persons.
Speak your truth quietly and clearly;
and listen to others,
even the dull and the ignorant;
they too have their story.

Avoid loud and aggressive persons,
they are vexations to the spirit.
If you compare yourself with others,
you may become vain and bitter;
for always there will be greater and lesser persons than yourself.
Enjoy your achievements as well as your plans.

Keep interested in your own career, however humble;
it is a real possession in the changing fortunes of time.
Exercise caution in your business affairs;
for the world is full of trickery.
But let this not blind you to what virtue there is;
many persons strive for high ideals;
and everywhere life is full of heroism.

Be yourself.
Especially, do not feign affection.
Neither be cynical about love;
for in the face of all aridity and disenchantment
it is as perennial as the grass.

Take kindly the counsel of the years,
gracefully surrendering the things of youth.
Nurture strength of spirit to shield you in sudden misfortune.
But do not distress yourself with dark imaginings.
Many fears are born of fatigue and loneliness.
Beyond a wholesome discipline,
be gentle with yourself.

You are a child of the universe,
no less than the trees and the stars;
you have a right to be here.
And whether or not it is clear to you,
no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God,
whatever you conceive Him to be,
and whatever your labors and aspirations,
in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams,
it is still a beautiful world.
Be cheerful.
Strive to be happy.

— Max Ehrmann, 1927
https://allpoetry.com/Desiderata---Words-for-Life

 

[MNAus]

Another thought I try to keep in mind when I'm tempted to unfurl the "that's not justice!" banner and march down the street, is that all the energy I pour into shouting into the void is energy I'm not pouring into the things that could progress my goals. And crucially, I don't need the whole world to be set right to succeed. You don't need everything to be fair and just. You only need one thing to go right out of the things you try, and that can definitely happen.

 

[Jonn]

I don't need the whole world to be set right to succeed.

Agreed.
I wouldn't fancy your chances if you did try to fix the unfixable social environment.