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Theory finds that individuals with Asperger’s Syndrome don’t lack empathy – in fact if anything they

Mia

Well-Known Member
V.I.P Member
empathize too much. November 2013 by seventh voice

“A ground-breaking theory suggests people with autism-spectrum disorders such as Asperger’s do not lack empathy – rather, they feel others’ emotions too intensely to cope.”


“People with
Asperger’s syndrome, a high functioning form of autism, are often stereotyped as distant loners or robotic geeks. But what if what looks like coldness to the outside world is a response to being overwhelmed by emotion – an excess of empathy, not a lack of it?


This idea resonates with many people suffering from autism-spectrum disorders and their families. It also jibes with the “intense world” theory, a new way of thinking about the nature of autism.


As posited by Henry and Kamila Markram of the
Swiss Federal Institute of Technology in Lausanne, the theory suggests that the fundamental problem in autism-spectrum disorders is not a social deficiency but, rather, a hypersensitivity to experience, which includes an overwhelming fear response.


“I can walk into a room and feel what everyone is feeling,” Kamila Markram says. “The problem is that it all comes in faster than I can process it. There are those who say
autistic people don’t feel enough. We’re saying exactly the opposite: They feel too much.”


Virtually all people with autism spectrum disorder, or
ASD, report various types of over-sensitivity and intense fear. The Markrams argue that social difficulties of those with autism spectrum disorders stem from trying to cope with a world where someone has turned the volume on all the senses and feelings up past 10.


If hearing your parents’ voices while sitting in your crib felt like listening to
Lou Reed‘s Metal Machine Music on acid, you, too, might prefer to curl in a corner and rock.


But, of course, this sort of withdrawal and self-soothing behaviour – repetitive movements; echoing words or actions; failing to make eye contact – interferes with social development. Without the experience other kids get through ordinary social interactions, children on the spectrum never learn to understand subtle signals.


Phil Schwarz, vice-president of the Asperger’s Association of
New England adds, “I think most people with ASD feel emotional empathy and care about the welfare of others very deeply.”


So, why do so many people see a lack of empathy as a defining characteristic of autism spectrum disorder?


The problem starts with the complexity of empathy itself. One aspect is simply the ability to see the world from the perspective of another. Another is more emotional – the ability to imagine what the other is feeling and care about their pain as a result.


Autistic children tend to develop the first part of empathy – which is called “theory of mind” – later than other kids. This was established in a classic experiment. Children are asked to watch two puppets, Sally and Anne. Sally takes a
marble and places it in a basket, then leaves the stage. While she’s gone, Anne takes the marble out and puts it in a box. The children are then asked: Where will Sally look first for her marble when she returns?


Most 4-year-olds know Sally didn’t see Anne move the marble, so they get it right. By 10 or 11, children with developmental disabilities who have verbal
IQs equivalent to 3-year-olds also get it right. But 80 per cent of autistic children age 10 to 11 guess that Sally will look in the box, because they know that’s where the marble is and they don’t realize other people don’t share all of their knowledge.


Of course, if you don’t realize others are seeing and feeling different things, you might well act less caring toward them.


It takes autistic children far longer than children without autism to realize other people have different experiences and perspectives – and the timing of this development varies greatly. But that doesn’t mean, once people with autism spectrum disorder
do become aware of other people’s experience, that they don’t care or want to connect.


Schwarz, of the New England Asperger’s association, says all the autistic adults he knows over the age of 18 have a better sense of what others know than the Sally/Anne test suggests.


When it comes to not understanding the inner state of minds too different from our own, most people also do a lousy job, Schwarz says. “But the non-autistic majority gets a free pass because, if they assume that the other person’s mind works like their own, they have a much better chance of being right.”


Thus, when, for example, a child with Asperger’s talks incessantly about his intense interests, he isn’t deliberately dominating the conversation so much as simply failing to consider that there may be a difference between his interests and those of his peers.


In terms of the caring aspect of empathy, a lively discussion that would seem to support Markrams’ theory appeared on the website for people with autism spectrum disorder called
WrongPlanet.net, after a mother wrote to ask whether her empathetic but socially immature daughter could possibly have Asperger’s.


“If anything, I struggle with having too much empathy,” one person says. “If someone else is upset, I am upset. There were times during school when other people were misbehaving and, if the teacher scolded them, I felt like they were scolding me.”


Said another, “I am clueless when it comes to reading subtle cues but I am
very empathic. I can walk into a room and feel what everyone is feeling and I think this is actually quite common in AS/autism. The problem is that it all comes in faster than I can process it.”


Studies have found that when people are overwhelmed by empathetic feelings, they tend to pull back. When someone else’s pain affects you deeply, it can be hard to reach out rather than turn away.


For people with autism spectrum disorder, these empathetic feelings might be so intense that they withdraw in a way that appears cold or uncaring.


“These children are really not unemotional. They do want to interact – it’s just difficult for them,” Markram says. “It’s quite sad, because these are quite capable people. But the world is just too intense, so they have to withdraw.”


Article written by Maia Szalavitz
Article originally sourced and reproduced from: http://www.thestar.com/life/health_wellness/diseases_cures/2009/05/14/aspergers

Other sources related to this article can be found at the following links.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2009/05/11/a-radical-new-autism-theory.html http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/2...-by-a-supercharged-mind-scientists-claim.html

http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg19926741.700-do-supercharged-brains-give-rise-to-autism.html


Posting this as I've not seen it on AC. It's from 2013 and it speaks volumes to me personally. Interesting that I thought that I had some sort of special insight into people, yet I'm not alone in my perceptions.
 
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This is brilliant Mia - I get it totally, thank you!

My sense of others' feelings is intense.. but why they feel that way - they have to tell me, because I'm not like them, don't have the same experiences, the same common ground as they do with their peers.. I so wish they'd tell me.

I have had to try to ignore it, numb it down over the years.. I'm around people and tears run down my face..

I think we have to factor in the isolation we experience too - if I see/feel peoples' happiness/love/joy I cry because I'm also sad that I've never felt that.
As adults, for us the points in the article are overlaid by a lifetime of experience, coping, loneliness, empathy and self awareness.

As we can't go back, we can only seek understanding..
 
Exactly, the 'cocktail party effect' - or lack of.. inability to filter out extraneous input.

I can't use a phone if there's any noise in my - or their - background.. can't have a conversation in a loud room.

.. Yet I can read and listen to someone at the same time, as long as there's no other intrusive distraction.
Seems contradictory, but, actually, I'm choosing the input.
 
Oooo you teaser, SOL, posting a link to a test that doesn't work!!!

(The link, that is.. at least for me :confused:)

I love tests..

Tell! :)
 
A gazillion times more affective empathy than is expected of us? Yup.
Clumsiness in expressing our caring only adds to the confuzzlement others have of our abilities to empathize and truly care.
To me, ASD sure feels like compassion, caged. What a tremendous relief it is when we find someone who enables us to connect well enough to express our care. :)
 
From what I've heard from various people with ASD, I think it depends on the individual. Some of us feel lots of empathy, some of us rarely do. But we tend to either feel with greater intensity, or not feel to a greater extreme than do most NTs.
 
Posting this as I've not seen it on AC. It's from 2013 and it speaks volumes to me personally. Interesting that I thought that I had some sort of special insight into people, yet I'm not alone in my perceptions.

I've read that article before and, like you, it spoke volumes to me. I posted some links about intense world theory here:

https://www.aspiescentral.com/threads/i-overreact-to-things.12514/#post-231977

It rings true for me. A couple of weeks ago, my Ts were talking about how they could understand the hopelessness I feel about social interaction if I'm processing as much information as I described to them.
 
From what I've heard from various people with ASD, I think it depends on the individual. Some of us feel lots of empathy, some of us rarely do. But we tend to either feel with greater intensity, or not feel to a greater extreme than do most NTs.

I recall my middle school mathematics teacher--a very stern nun who was a keen observer--telling me that I had an amazing gift of empathy. I looked up "empathy" to see how it differed from "sympathy". I didn't get it; I didn't understand at all how others were feeling, in the sense that I could imagine their perspective. I thought she must have gotten it confused with "sympathy" or "compassion". But in retrospect, I think she was probably observing how readily the emotions of others overwhelmed me.

One day about a year ago I was listening to a man on the radio who was talking about his experience as a reporter during the Civil Rights Movement. He hadn't said anything particularly sad yet, and his voice was fairly normal, but I was crying very hard. No sooner did my husband look over to ask why I was upset than the radio went quiet, and it became clear from the interviewer's comments that the man being interviewed was also crying! So apparently I don't even need a person to be present in the room to absorb that energy.

Conversely, if I am deep in my logical mind and suddenly must shift to an emotional response, I can't do it, and I seem quite cold and unfeeling in that case. So at least for me it seems to matter which portions of my brain are most active at any given time, as there seems to be a severe lack of disconnect between the logic brain and emotional brain.
 
Conversely, if I am deep in my logical mind and suddenly must shift to an emotional response, I can't do it, and I seem quite cold and unfeeling in that case. So at least for me it seems to matter which portions of my brain are most active at any given time, as there seems to be a severe lack of disconnect between the logic brain and emotional brain.

This really resonates with me. When I'm deep into my work, there's not an emotion in sight. But when I'm out around people, I can't look at their eyes without picking up on their emotional state. And...figuring out what my own emotions are, is much more of a challenge than identifying other people's emotional state. But there are also times when, even though I can't describe my emotions, they're extremely overwhelming (both good and bad).

I've wondered how much of that, for me, is AS-related, and how much of it comes from growing up in a dysfunctional family where I had to adeptly read people's emotional states in order to protect myself, but I wasn't allowed to have emotions of my own, especially if they were negative in any way towards anyone.
 
being able to predict and or understand someone's emotional state would protect me, or that I could help in some way to circumvent what might happen. Being able to do so ahead of anyone else made me better able to protect myself. I never ascribed it to ASD.

I wonder if...AS's providing the aptitude...and a dysfunctional family "providing" the motivation...combined to result in a particular pattern of coping mechanisms and behaviors. Like...many kids who come from abusive backgrounds end up on drugs or in prostitution or a lot of other very destructive and rebellious behavior patterns. They might develop disorders that sometimes continue the same abusive patterns, like narcissism. Speaking in generalities here, but looking for patterns. My experience is that I wasn't even tempted with stuff like drugs and alcohol. I went too heavily in the direction of people-pleasing, and excelling in school, and workaholism.

Anyway, I don't think AS necessarily predicts a particular outcome from having a certain set of childhood experiences, but I wonder if that's part of the explanation for how I turned out so differently than my NT sisters, better off in some ways, and worse off in others. It's the combination of AS and childhood abuse survival that intrigues me.
 
I totally agree. I empathise way too much to the point I feel more than the actual person I am witnessing going through trauma.

I am not tempted by drugs either.

Fascinating and true in my humble opinion.
 
I looked up "empathy" to see how it differed from "sympathy". I didn't get it; I didn't understand at all how others were feeling, in the sense that I could imagine their perspective. I thought she must have gotten it confused with "sympathy" or "compassion".
Interesting. Way back when I was in school they used make a big thing over the difference between empathy and sympathy. "It's no good just sympathizing, you have to empathize". I just looked up sympathy, empathy and compassion. I don't see much difference. According to my dictionary they all are about feeling what the other person feels (note that nothing is said about actions or other outward expression in the definitions). I think they all imply a negative emotion, but that doesn't appear in the definitions either.
 
"Schwarz, of the New England Asperger’s association, says all the autistic adults he knows over the age of 18 have a better sense of what others know than the Sally/Anne test suggests"

I read the test (the Sally/Anne test) just a year ago and after reading the question I got suddenly mentally stucked and unable to give the answer.
I figured out logically the answer required but something felt fishy about it and I thought a lot later about my confusion about the very question.
Then it hit me!
I terribly suffer when someone takes and moves my things.
I instantly imagined the SUFFERING of Sally if she would not find HER marble where she had left it.
I can assume that autistic children might point to the basket to show place where the marble BELONGS.
It's just a theory of mine but I think it's a mistake that experimentors do NOT ask children (autistic and normal) about FEELINGS of girls: 'What Sally will feel (how she will react) when she finds out the marble is gone?"
That would be the crucial question of finding out chilren's empathy - to the suffering person.
The experiment how it is classically done - shows only if children (watchers) KNOW how to HIDE someone's thing for nobody could find it.
For me it is cruel (to hide someone's thing) and illogical: I can ask the owner's permission to have a look or to play with the thing if I'm interested.
But to take the thing without its owner's notice is quite impossible and wrong by my mind.
Life prooved I am capable of stealing but I was really hungry then and I have been feeling remorse for many years by now for this doing.
 
"The problem starts with the complexity of empathy itself. One aspect is simply the ability to see the world from the perspective of another. Another is more emotional – the ability to imagine what the other is feeling and care about their pain as a result."

By the way:
The first aspect of empathy is logical thinking of other person's motives and actions.
The second - is about feeling emotionally for another person by imagining 'walking in their shoes'.

My interpretation of the Sally/Anne test suggests that autistic children posess the second aspect of empathy MUCH SOONER then neurotypical children (if they EVER get to learn feeling for Sally at all).
 
The first aspect of empathy is logical thinking of other person's motives and actions.
The second - is about feeling emotionally for another person by imagining 'walking in their shoes'.

I would say that I lack the first aspect. I am quite often clueless about another person's motive/actions and enter into situations in a vulnerable position if I don't go into it in a protective mode. Even with people I know well, I don't see it.

The second aspect I get, sometimes too much. The combination of the two traits has allowed people to take advantage of me.

I also kept away from inebriating substances for the most part. Something was telling me I had to keep my wits about me and stay focused on my interests, school, jobs because I lacked any kind of safety net.

I did briefly experiment in my twenties, but found it was really uncomfortable.
 
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I am quite often clueless about another person's motive/actions and enter into situations in a vulnerable position if I don't go into it in a protective mode.

Yes, I'm just like that.
I have been wondering for many years why I don't WANT anything like other people always do?
I mean I realized early that I don't want things which other people posess - I envy people's feelings about things they own or crave to obtain.
It took me much more years to realize that I dont really want to have relationship with a real guy - I envy girl's feelings about guy she's in close relationship with.

That's maybe the real reason for my lack of motivation to do something or to get something...
I want to experience real feelings - and I can't buy or manipulate real feelings from people and myself (i.e. I can't predict my own feelings from doing or repeating something with certainty) - like all 'normal' people think they can and are quite satisfied with.
 
That's maybe the real reason for my lack of motivation to do something or to get something...
I want to experience real feelings - and I can't buy or manipulate real feelings from people and myself (i.e. I can't predict my own feelings from doing or repeating something with certainty) - like all 'normal' people think they can and are quite satisfied with.

I also have envy of people's desires, not of what they desire. I've felt this was behind my lack of motivation as well. I am not a person who wants much, I am fortunate to have enough of what one needs to live, plus a little for my interests, but I do not have the urge to work for more. One needs to have the desire, which perhaps is cultivated, a matter of neurology, or both and if those aren't present what to do?

I spent a weekend at a campground this summer, and there were some very large motorhomes there and I was fascinated watching the people and their routines around this outsized, rather ridiculous concept of recreation ( I was bike riding). I could see how nice the motorhomes were, they had lots of food, drinks, etc. but I just don't see how I could be motivated to posses such things, do things in such a way. I will acknowledge that this is extreme, but it illustrates the point.

I do have a desire for companionship, a relationship, but have been overwhelmed with the needs of a relationship, what it requires to thrive. It may be because I have been involved with people who expect normal emotional connection, whatever that is, those feelings you mentioned.
 

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