Therapy and what you got out of it

[King_Oni]

So, time is closing in on me and it's almost my turn to visit a psychologist/therapist/psychiatrist and whatever experts we have in that field nowadays to look at my "issues" and eventually get a bit of support there. I'm reluctant to get therapy over the fact that I can't be bothered to end up with large bills that don't do anything at all. If I were to get some kind of therapy program it would have to be super beneficial for myself... and I don't see that happening. It's not that I don't acknowledge personal issues, but I don't see them as a bad thing, just as someones personality traits don't need fixing. From a more "arrogant" perspective; I don't need fixing, people just need to learn to deal with me. As well as "this machine is inherently broken, you want me to function in the same lacking manner". So anyway;

This raises the follow question with me, and it might be directed more towards adult aspies rather than parents and aspies of whom parents still have a say in how they function.

Did you need/get any therapy, and if so, what did you actually get out of it?

I'm still convinced that I'm not inherently broken and need fixing nor adjusting and my issues are (for a big part) a sign of the times. I mean, with the increasing numbers of people having some kind of "mental illness" and seeking treatment and/or medication one can wonder how much of an individual problem it is that needs fixing.

So, anyone have any experiences to share?

 

[Tarragon]

it's not arrogance thinking that it "isn't me with the problem". My experience of therapy was that I started it thinking it was "me" and finished it thinking it wasn't!

I did find it useful though, because of the change in my perception of the "problem". I am happier now because I know my strengths and weaknesses. I also know people tend to try and exploit others sometimes, and so I have to be careful showing my weaknesses to them. My weaknesses are simply the way I am. I don't see them as weaknesses, but I am aware that in this society, it's seen that way.

 

[Archer36]

I do have experience to share. Since I was little, i had mental health issues ... today I know why ... but I had to find the diagnostic by myself.

None of the shrinks I met ever helped me in any way. I had enormous anxiety problems, depression, panic attack and all that nice stuff. While I was trying to find out why I had those issues, they basically tried to fix my head. It damaged my self confidence, because they made me think i was not good enough and I had to improve.

... until I found BY MYSELF ... that I had an intolerance to wheat ... which should have been obvious to them ... this alone fixed 90% of my anxiety problems and general health problems. Then I found BY MYSELF that I may have aspergers syndrome ... which, if you ask me, it should be a pretty easy condition to diagnose for a Dr.

Why was it not obvious to those Dr.? ... I have no idea. I wasted tons of money on them and got nothing out of it. I had to find everything by myself.

THAT SAID ... I'm not a total jerk, and I wont say that Dr. are useless ... they can be really good at treating the symptoms. Like a broken leg ... they will fix you. If you have panic attacks, they can bring you back to a functional level. However, from experience, they are very bad at finding the source of the symptoms. They either don't care, or they simply don't have time.

Amusingly enough, they are the same Dr. that will tell you "Self-diagnostic on internet is evil!" ... ... Its not more evil than blindly trusting a doctor ... Its just a matter of common sense.

Of course, that is just a personal opinion.

 

[wyverary]

I am currently in therapy, and I don't know what I would do without it. Especially with all the troubles I've had lately, he's been extremely helpful, with a keen perspective. He helps me work through my issues in a way that I definitely could not do on my own. I DO consider myself broken, flawed, and oftentimes utterly incapable of thinking my way out of things.

It depends on both the individual, and on the therapist. I've had therapists that were, to put it bluntly, complete duds. But my current one has been extremely helpful; I am much better off for having regular sessions with him, and to me, it is worth the money.

That said, unless you realize that you have personal issues that get in your life that you think a therapist could help with, it might indeed be a waste. It's entirely up to you.

 

[Judge]

I'm still convinced that I'm not inherently broken and need fixing nor adjusting and my issues are (for a big part) a sign of the times. I mean, with the increasing numbers of people having some kind of "mental illness" and seeking treatment and/or medication one can wonder how much of an individual problem it is that needs fixing.

I think much of it is ultimately relative to your ability to function in the world to your own satisfaction. If you are comfortable with the existing circumstances of life, why perceive a need to change them? Is this motivated by your own thoughts, or someone elses?

Analysis and/or drug therapy might improve existing conditions you aren't satisfied with. Of course it's a terribly individual process where success or progress is relative to your state of mind and physical metabolism. There are no guarantees.

For myself, I eventually opted out of both. Didn't have any sense of appreciable progress. I didn't want to go through life having my senses dulled just to alleviate a few symptoms at the expense of side effects. I live with depression, but at least I function at the best my metabolism can muster under the circumstances.

 

[Arashi222]

I have been to therapy twice. Once when my parents divorced when I was 10 and she was terrible. She didn't listen to us and made me feel like my father had done nothing wrong...which he had he had cheated on my mom and called her names. So I went from thinking all therapists were bad to having one when I was in high school for time because I was unable to make friends and they deemed me depressed I wasn't depressed I just needed to figure out what all high school kids need to figure out where you belong. This therapist was really good and basically realized that what i needed was just an ear that would help me with social situations.

As to what Wyv said. Its true. Not all therapists are going to fit with what you need or what you are comfortable with. I always tell people it's like trying on shoes, you try them on until you find the one that fits. When I was in my internship. I had several clients leave...but you know what i had several clients stay with me because we meshed together we could work together. Does that make me a bad therapist? No. It just means that some clients and I didn't work well together and that's ok. My approach isn't right for everyone.

 

[bookworm44]

I have been in and out of therapy over the years. My current therapist is very helpful to me. One of the things I do is figure out what I want to work on in my life and focus on how to accomplish that, so she helps me with figuring that out. She can also give me feedback when I am confused by other people's words and actions as well as help me see how my words and actions may have come across to them. One other thing is that I am very hard on myself and she is helping me to recognize every small accomplishment instead of berating myself for all the things I haven't done perfectly.

I think the main thing is to find someone you are compatible with who validates your goals and is able and willing to help you reach for them.

 

[Vanilla]

So, time is closing in on me and it's almost my turn to visit a psychologist/therapist/psychiatrist and whatever experts we have in that field nowadays to look at my "issues" and eventually get a bit of support there. I'm reluctant to get therapy over the fact that I can't be bothered to end up with large bills that don't do anything at all. If I were to get some kind of therapy program it would have to be super beneficial for myself... and I don't see that happening. It's not that I don't acknowledge personal issues, but I don't see them as a bad thing, just as someones personality traits don't need fixing. From a more "arrogant" perspective; I don't need fixing, people just need to learn to deal with me. As well as "this machine is inherently broken, you want me to function in the same lacking manner". So anyway;

This raises the follow question with me, and it might be directed more towards adult aspies rather than parents and aspies of whom parents still have a say in how they function.

Did you need/get any therapy, and if so, what did you actually get out of it?

I'm still convinced that I'm not inherently broken and need fixing nor adjusting and my issues are (for a big part) a sign of the times. I mean, with the increasing numbers of people having some kind of "mental illness" and seeking treatment and/or medication one can wonder how much of an individual problem it is that needs fixing.

So, anyone have any experiences to share?

Lol, sounds like you're dreading the visit already

Obviously I'm not you, so I can't tell you if you need therapy, but I feel that therapy is generally something you have to want. My advice would be to make sure you go in there with an open mind, otherwise you might not get much out of it.

Seeing a therapist doesn't necessarily mean you have to change who you are. A lot of people think a therapy session will turn out like it does in movies; where the therapist judges you, then tells you how you have to change, but from my experiences, they're nothing like that. Therapists are not there to tell you how to live your life, they're actually there to help you figure out issues. It's up to you what you do with that information. It's like having someone to bounce your thoughts, and ideas off, so that you can figure things out. The therapist I spoke with was great. She never told me to change my ways; her job was simply to help me better understand my situation; which she did. Sometimes, clarity is enough to help you.

Maybe you just need to figure out why you are seeing your therapist in the first place (and don't say because someone's forcing you to ), so that you know what you want to talk about at the session. The first thing a therapist usually opens with is how can I help/ why have you come to see me today? So if you don't have an answer, it can leave you feeling a little silly. Just right down a list of anything you want to talk about, it can be anything that's bothering you.

Oh, and finding the right therapist is important; just as there are plenty of good therapists, there are bad ones too. If you don't like them, find someone else! Someone who specialises in what you're seeking answers in will be more helpful to you.

Hope that helps, let us know how you go

 

[King_Oni]

Perhaps I should add a bit after a few responses here. Perhaps I've already found my own answer in what I can or cannot get from therapy and such;

- I'm not seeing a therapist because I neccesarily want to. Last year I had an assessment from social services and that psychologist said that I should see if a therapist could offer me some help. But even he wasn't so sure what really needed fixing in that regard. Like said, yes, I have my issues, but even he was reluctant in stating these matters can be looked into by a professional and "fixed" or "adjusted". For what it's worth, I still think it's just a formality where he can't get away with saying "this is a lost cause". That might be slightly exaggerated, but it brings me to the following;
- I've seen a lot of therapists in my life, and except for the one that finally referred me for my diagnosis, they all pretty much told me "well, we can't do anything for you". Truth is, a lot of the issues I run into in life, aren't really of a psychological nature (at least not ones that can be fixed by eating your vitamins and an occasional pill), but more of a practical and financial nature. At this point in life there's an interesting catch 22 situation. No education means little to no perspective to get employed (aside from AS related issues that tend to get in the way). Yet, education has proven to give enough problems that even therapists acknowledge, for me to flourish within an educational system I'd need a private teacher for one-on-one education and not the regular educational route. That is far from financially viable, and perhaps one of the worst ways to enroll in the job market since it's nothing like an actual job (I would assume)
- In short, what I've got from therapists is a lot of knowledge in what doesn't work for me (which makes me well aware of what pushes my buttons the wrong way. And they all figured there are certain boundaries to be respected as an individual so I don't end up in a revolving door, it doesn't mean it works well in practice.) as well as what does work for me, even if those options are slightly more impossible to achieve (the private schooling thing for example).

Thus, I'm reluctant because I've seen way too many healthcare professionals who gave up, and that was in periods in my life where I actually had money and options. Well... money; until a certain age I was able to ask for a college loan from the government (which is pretty much how the educational system works here). It's interesting since even social workers told me "if you were 18 right now, it would've been a lot easier and more practical"... even they are slightly at a loss.

So, something about a rock and a hard place....

 

[Turnip]

You suggest that you don't expect a therapist will be able to help with issues such as seeking to further your education... and that seems very rational to me. If you've got to go though, I don't get why it's relevant?

If you've made an appointment to go to the dentist (for your teeth), would you cancel your appointment if you sprained your wrist earlier in the year and it just started to hurt again, because the dentist wouldn't be able to also treat that for you while you are there?

Maybe the therapist won't be able to offer you anything, but as it sounds like you have to attend at least one visit I guess the only thing you can do is wait to see what they say. They very well might tell you you don't need to come back because therapy won't help you.

EDIT: Just a thought, you might mention the time you spent on sites like this to the therapist: they might consider such another reason you might not necessarily need their help as someone to talk things through with (if they are that kind of therapist)

 

[Vanilla]

Perhaps I should add a bit after a few responses here. Perhaps I've already found my own answer in what I can or cannot get from therapy and such;

- I'm not seeing a therapist because I neccesarily want to. Last year I had an assessment from social services and that psychologist said that I should see if a therapist could offer me some help. But even he wasn't so sure what really needed fixing in that regard. Like said, yes, I have my issues, but even he was reluctant in stating these matters can be looked into by a professional and "fixed" or "adjusted". For what it's worth, I still think it's just a formality where he can't get away with saying "this is a lost cause". That might be slightly exaggerated, but it brings me to the following;
- I've seen a lot of therapists in my life, and except for the one that finally referred me for my diagnosis, they all pretty much told me "well, we can't do anything for you". Truth is, a lot of the issues I run into in life, aren't really of a psychological nature (at least not ones that can be fixed by eating your vitamins and an occasional pill), but more of a practical and financial nature. At this point in life there's an interesting catch 22 situation. No education means little to no perspective to get employed (aside from AS related issues that tend to get in the way). Yet, education has proven to give enough problems that even therapists acknowledge, for me to flourish within an educational system I'd need a private teacher for one-on-one education and not the regular educational route. That is far from financially viable, and perhaps one of the worst ways to enroll in the job market since it's nothing like an actual job (I would assume)
- In short, what I've got from therapists is a lot of knowledge in what doesn't work for me (which makes me well aware of what pushes my buttons the wrong way. And they all figured there are certain boundaries to be respected as an individual so I don't end up in a revolving door, it doesn't mean it works well in practice.) as well as what does work for me, even if those options are slightly more impossible to achieve (the private schooling thing for example).

Thus, I'm reluctant because I've seen way too many healthcare professionals who gave up, and that was in periods in my life where I actually had money and options. Well... money; until a certain age I was able to ask for a college loan from the government (which is pretty much how the educational system works here). It's interesting since even social workers told me "if you were 18 right now, it would've been a lot easier and more practical"... even they are slightly at a loss.

So, something about a rock and a hard place....

Hmm...sorry, didn't realise

Well, if you've had many therapy sessions, and have all your answers already, I guess this isn't really helpful. Is it something you're forced to do by social services??

If that's the case, I would find out if you could get your specialist (whichever one), to write an official letter, so that they get the picture. A lot of these kinds of organisations need everything to be official, so perhaps that might at least help to get them off your back.

Not sure what advice to give in terms of actually solving the issue; only things that come to mind are things like nueruplasticity, or hypnotherapy, to fix that one. I personally have tried the first one, which I've found to be quite effective, if that helps at all. I can tell you more about it if you're interested.

 

[Turnip]

Vanilla, sorry I'm kind of curious what you mean by "neuroplasticity" as a treatment (I thought it "neuroplasticity" was just a property of the brain). Could you explain more?

 

[Vanilla]

Vanilla, sorry I'm kind of curious what you mean by "neuroplasticity" as a treatment (I thought it "neuroplasticity" was just a property of the brain). Could you explain more?

Sure, well I'm no neuroscientist, but I have had an interest in it for some time now. There's a good book on it called 'The Brain That Changes Itself.' It speaks of fairly extreme cases, but it's quite interesting, and inspirational.

The story I related to most was a girl who was born with a ridiculous learning difficulty. She wasn't stupid, but struggled to manage many basic everyday things, such as reading clocks, reading books, understanding relationships, and all sorts of other issues. She eventually got so frustrated, she actually found a way to teach herself to eventually understand those things. Not only that, but she went beyond the basics. By the time she was finished, she could read a clock, with multiple hands, down to the millisecond, in a single glance. I beleive she became a teacher afterwards.

Essentially, she was re-programming her brain, which is a major feat. That's what nueruplasticity is; the ability for the brain to change. I myself used this to change many aspects of myself. I actually came up with the idea before even knowing about the term, when I was in junior highschool, and have been working on it ever since. I was so fed up with having such terrible social skills, and being so trapped in my own head, that the only way I was able to deal with it was to change.

I used a similar technique as the girl did to condition my brain, and have successfully managed to achieve a major change in my personality; several times over. Many of my family members were quite surprised. It's been quite liberating, and I continue to better myself through this method. It's an odd thing to explain, but it's sort of a form of evolving yourself. I beleive everyone has the ability to do it, but most people don't have a reason to, or the will. Most people who resort to it though, generally do so to escape a bad situation, from what I've learned about it. It's like nature's way of getting you out of trouble.

 

[Turnip]

So, you mean you worked on your social skills and managed to get a lot better at dealing with people? I don't intend to come off sounding dismissive, that is a feat, but I don't think you necessarily need to delve into the subject of neuroplasticity to suggest that you can improve your self by practising doing the things you want to become better at... at least not until you need to discuss how learning can change the brain.

I say this, because initially I misunderstood and thought you were suggesting there was a treatment being employed based on neuroplasticity, but if we're talking about self-help practice one might almost want to avoid anything that purports to be based on neuroplasticity rather than improving one's skills as the former is attracting a lot of junk science. I haven't read the book you mention but I note that it was written by a psychiatrist/psychoanalyst rather than someone in the field of neuroscience.

 

[Vanilla]

While you are entitled to your own opinion, that is not what I said. I did not simply learn how to talk to people; I am well aware that many people with Asperger's have managed this. I am saying that I was able to have a drastic personality change, which was also able to help with my ability to speak with people. There were several other benefits too, which involve being able to alter moods, habits, and behaviors, in order to achieve those benefits, but I simply kept the post short to save it from becoming too long. While it is possible to manage neuroplasticity on your own, there are doctors who have treated people using this technique; it's all in the book. Perhaps you should educate yourself.

 

[Turnip]

Sure, well I'm no neuroscientist, but I have had an interest in it for some time now. There's a good book on it called 'The Brain That Changes Itself.' It speaks of fairly extreme cases, but it's quite interesting, and inspirational.

The story I related to most was a girl who was born with a ridiculous learning difficulty. She wasn't stupid, but struggled to manage many basic everyday things, such as reading clocks, reading books, understanding relationships, and all sorts of other issues. She eventually got so frustrated, she actually found a way to teach herself to eventually understand those things. Not only that, but she went beyond the basics. By the time she was finished, she could read a clock, with multiple hands, down to the millisecond, in a single glance. I beleive she became a teacher afterwards.

Essentially, she was re-programming her brain, which is a major feat. That's what nueruplasticity is; the ability for the brain to change. I myself used this to change many aspects of myself. I actually came up with the idea before even knowing about the term, when I was in junior highschool, and have been working on it ever since. I was so fed up with having such terrible social skills, and being so trapped in my own head, that the only way I was able to deal with it was to change.

I used a similar technique as the girl did to condition my brain, and have successfully managed to achieve a major change in my personality; several times over. Many of my family members were quite surprised. It's been quite liberating, and I continue to better myself through this method. It's an odd thing to explain, but it's sort of a form of evolving yourself. I beleive everyone has the ability to do it, but most people don't have a reason to, or the will. Most people who resort to it though, generally do so to escape a bad situation, from what I've learned about it. It's like nature's way of getting you out of trouble.

While you are entitled to your own opinion, that is not what I said. I did not simply learn how to talk to people; I am well aware that many people with Asperger's have managed this. I am saying that I was able to have a drastic personality change, which was also able to help with my ability to speak with people. There were several other benefits too, which involve being able to alter moods, habits, and behaviors, in order to achieve those benefits, but I simply kept the post short to save it from becoming too long. While it is possible to manage neuroplasticity on your own, there are doctors who have treated people using this technique; it's all in the book. Perhaps you should educate yourself.

I'm sorry, I did not refute that you did any of that, nor did I suggest that what you achieved was something achieved by anyone else. I also made no mention of "Asperger's" in my post, nor did I suggest that you "simply learn[ed] how to talk to people".

I said that you worked on your social skills because you said: "I was so fed up with having such terrible social skills, and being so trapped in my own head, that the only way I was able to deal with it was to change."

I assumed that you were "practising doing the things you want to become better at" because of my own understanding of how one might use "neuroplasiticy" to change their brain, because that it what it usually boils down to from what I've seen, and because you did not offer any clarification despite this being what I ask you about. And, if you don't mean what is commonly understood by a term in that context when you suggest it as advice to others, then people will get the wrong idea (I did make some further assumptions based on your suggestion that you did this on your own, such as that you did so without drugs)

While I appreciate your recommendation of a book which you found helpful, I do not appreciate the implication that because I have not read this same one book, which was written by someone who is not qualified in the field the book is written on, that I am in someway "uneducated".

Neuroplasticity is something the brain does, rather than a "technique".

 

[King_Oni]

Hmm...sorry, didn't realise

Well, if you've had many therapy sessions, and have all your answers already, I guess this isn't really helpful. Is it something you're forced to do by social services??

If that's the case, I would find out if you could get your specialist (whichever one), to write an official letter, so that they get the picture. A lot of these kinds of organisations need everything to be official, so perhaps that might at least help to get them off your back.

Not sure what advice to give in terms of actually solving the issue; only things that come to mind are things like nueruplasticity, or hypnotherapy, to fix that one. I personally have tried the first one, which I've found to be quite effective, if that helps at all. I can tell you more about it if you're interested.

Oh, the letter/report is pretty much around. It's that the psychologist from the assessment wrote down "should seek out help to see if they eventually can offer more support".. keywords "eventually can". But even he acknowledged that there are more practical issues rather than psychological issues in that regard. There's total misunderstanding between the ones of social services and the ones from the mental healthcare institutions in my opinion.

You suggest that you don't expect a therapist will be able to help with issues such as seeking to further your education... and that seems very rational to me. If you've got to go though, I don't get why it's relevant?

If you've made an appointment to go to the dentist (for your teeth), would you cancel your appointment if you sprained your wrist earlier in the year and it just started to hurt again, because the dentist wouldn't be able to also treat that for you while you are there?

Maybe the therapist won't be able to offer you anything, but as it sounds like you have to attend at least one visit I guess the only thing you can do is wait to see what they say. They very well might tell you you don't need to come back because therapy won't help you.

EDIT: Just a thought, you might mention the time you spent on sites like this to the therapist: they might consider such another reason you might not necessarily need their help as someone to talk things through with (if they are that kind of therapist)

It's not even that I refuse to go. I'm willing to see what they say. I'm trying to keep an open mind, and that's kinda why I asked around in this topic what people got out of it.

But in my experience at the moment the main reason why I'm being told to visit a therapist is because I'm bordering on depression because of lack of future perspectives. Perhaps the bad employment situation adds up to that, combined with no qualifications on top of some inability to function in a "regular" working environment. Hence that's why I bring up employment and education as such. I don't have a problem in living my life on a daily basis right now, currently I'm unemployed and receive benefits. I have tend to have a problem when it comes to being a "constructive" member of society.

 

[Vanilla]

I'm sorry, I did not refute that you did any of that, nor did I suggest that what you achieved was something achieved by anyone else. I also made no mention of "Asperger's" in my post, nor did I suggest that you "simply learn[ed] how to talk to people".

I said that you worked on your social skills because you said: "I was so fed up with having such terrible social skills, and being so trapped in my own head, that the only way I was able to deal with it was to change."

I assumed that you were "practising doing the things you want to become better at" because of my own understanding of how one might use "neuroplasiticy" to change their brain, because that it what it usually boils down to from what I've seen, and because you did not offer any clarification despite this being what I ask you about. And, if you don't mean what is commonly understood by a term in that context when you suggest it as advice to others, then people will get the wrong idea (I did make some further assumptions based on your suggestion that you did this on your own, such as that you did so without drugs)

While I appreciate your recommendation of a book which you found helpful, I do not appreciate the implication that because I have not read this same one book, which was written by someone who is not qualified in the field the book is written on, that I am in someway "uneducated".

Neuroplasticity is something the brain does, rather than a "technique".

Look, I am not trying to start an argument here; clearly we're both misunderstanding one another.

Yes, neuroplasticity is something the brain does on it's own, obviously It needs to do some of the work. Harnessing this ability is the topic at hand. If everyone's brain could already do what the book describes, unaided, then there wouldn't be a book at all. Everyone's brain can fix itself, but sometimes the brain isn't perfect, and requires help. A person can not simply rely on their body to look after itself all the time, they in turn have to do things for their body to continue to function, or in fact improve. The lack of our attention to this is partly the reason why some people can suffer from various health concerns, such as dementia; and note I said partly, as there are many possible causes for dementia. It has been proven though, that a person diagnosed with the early stages of dementia may be able to reverse this, should they have the will power to exercise their minds.

The book itself is simply a documented collection of successful uses of neuroplasticity, which includes several different methods, depending on the patient. In some cases, patients could simply rely on the understanding of how we learn, and perceive the world, in order to manipulate how our brain trains us, which is why the psychology aspect is important.

The other aspect of the book discussed, was the use of specialised lab equipment, which was tailored specifically towards stimulating certain areas of the brain, in order to manipulate a response via the senses. This was for the more extreme treatments. By doing this, they were able to assist a patient to re-train their brain to detect senses through other means, than their initially intended receptors.

I did not realise he was not a neuroscientist, but apparently you do not need to be one in order to initiate in this research.

 

[Judge]

I have tend to have a problem when it comes to being a "constructive" member of society.

Point taken. That does strike me as being problematic whether in a good economy or a bad one. Maybe that's something for a therapist to address.

 

[King_Oni]

Point taken. That does strike me as being problematic whether in a good economy or a bad one. Maybe that's something for a therapist to address.

I didn't mean that in a way that I'd refuse to get a job. Being not constructive as in low expectancy to land a job.