Things NT's Do That Don't Make Sense.

[Grumpy Cat]

Are there things NT's do that, as an Aspie, make absolutely no sense to you? List those things here and maybe a friendly NT on the site can shed some light about why NT's act like they do.

 

[Ste11aeres]

I don't understand how so many people boast about being tolerant when it comes to things like religion, or sexual orientation, or race, or something else that is their personal favorite thing to be tolerant about,
but when it comes to something very very trivial and superficial, like someone dressing oddly or having a little stim, odd body language, or unusual vocabulary, they shun that person.
(Although there also are NTs who are very nice and who are accepting, even if a little confused at us).

 

[King_Oni]

I think there are plenty of things to list, but those are probably the things that are key to why I'm an aspie.

Stuff like socializing; I can not understand why a lot of people do this (and mostly NT's) but the truth is that if we would all be social butterflies, the entire Aspie thing would fall apart. Not saying no aspie can or should socialize, but it seems to be more common for people on the spectrum not to do this, nor have any desire to actively participate in small talk. The moment you realize that and perceive this behavior with other people... that's where it gets weird and I just have no clue what drives these people to do so.

Well, then, that was my personal note. Now to put on moderator voice

*turns out some sound effect to have a deep booming voice*

As much as this thread seems fine with it's intention and I'm interested in seeing what people come up with, I do want to put out that a topic like this is really prone to NT bashing behavior. We already have a zero tolerance policy for this on the forum, and a topic like this might just be under a bit more supervision because of it.

And now, back to the weather... wish for rain and hope it washes this red paint off.

 

[Grumpy Cat]

I don't understand how so many people boast about being tolerant when it comes to things like religion, or sexual orientation, or race, or something else that is their personal favorite thing to be tolerant about,
but when it comes to something very very trivial and superficial, like someone dressing oddly or having a little stim, odd body language, or unusual vocabulary, they shun that person.
(Although there also are NTs who are very nice and who are accepting, even if a little confused at us).

Things like different dress, different body language, etc., are not considered to be in the "norm" (meaning it's not something people run into everyday and are able to take time to get used to). A lot of NT's are insecure about themselves (myself included at times) and being around something that is not in the "norm" draws negative attention from other NT's. NT's don't want to be "less popular" from the rest of the group and that's when a person that is different will be "shunned" or made fun of. An NT that will accept a person that acts different from the "norm" is an NT that is very secure about themselves and doesn't really care what other NT's think.
I even learned about this in my psychology class and thought it was very strange. If you have a bunch of people and they are considered to be in a big group, they will do anything to belong to that group and not be an outcast. If one person in the group is singled out and bullied, the others in the group will actually follow along and do the same bullying to that person just so they will not be the ones next to be bullied (even if it is totally against their morals). The way it was explained was that it was somewhat of a survival instinct - a person will do anything to be a part of a group and belong even if its not for good. Other examples of this are gangs and sororities.

 

[Grumpy Cat]

I think there are plenty of things to list, but those are probably the things that are key to why I'm an aspie.

Stuff like socializing; I can not understand why a lot of people do this (and mostly NT's) but the truth is that if we would all be social butterflies, the entire Aspie thing would fall apart. Not saying no aspie can or should socialize, but it seems to be more common for people on the spectrum not to do this, nor have any desire to actively participate in small talk. The moment you realize that and perceive this behavior with other people... that's where it gets weird and I just have no clue what drives these people to do so.

Well, then, that was my personal note. Now to put on moderator voice

*turns out some sound effect to have a deep booming voice*

As much as this thread seems fine with it's intention and I'm interested in seeing what people come up with, I do want to put out that a topic like this is really prone to NT bashing behavior. We already have a zero tolerance policy for this on the forum, and a topic like this might just be under a bit more supervision because of it.

And now, back to the weather... wish for rain and hope it washes this red paint off.

I actually think we are wired differently when it comes to the socializing thing. Socializing is the only way you can get to know a person and their interests and make friends. Socializing is "bonding" in the NT world. The less a person socializes with you (NT) means they aren't interested in you enough to want to spend time with you. Aspies say they don't socialize, but I think this web site is the way Aspies socialize. I read in an Aspie book that email and texts are the best ways for Aspies to converse and that's why I text my Aspie friend - emails and texts give Aspies the time to collect their thoughts and not have to answer right away. That article that Ste11aeres posted was really helpful to me in understanding how socializing affects Aspies and zaps their energy. I just couldn't get that until the author said it was like an NT taking a stroll and having to focus on moving their legs correctly the whole time. That's why I think NT's and Aspies are wired differently in the brain somewhere because socializing comes so easy to us and it actually feels like a necessity in order to function.
What I don't understand is that I read how some Aspies on this site are really lonely for friends, but how is a friendship going to happen if you don't want to socialize?

 

[King_Oni]

What I don't understand is that I read how some Aspies on this site are really lonely for friends, but how is a friendship going to happen if you don't want to socialize?

I've wondered this myself.

The thing I've read on some aspie forums, and by talking to some is that the entire concept of socializing is such a big thing some don't even know where to start, aside from personal issues they struggle with that makes engaging in certain activities a lot harder. Plenty of activities that aim at socializing, don't seem appealing to aspies. I think there are more aspies who rather stay home than go to a crowded bar, one of the places people would meet up and socialize. To some there's no appeal to this. It's crowded, it's an attack on the senses, it's an uncontrolled environment and there are probably a few other things going on.

And then there have been a few with who I spoke, who just don't want to do the entire socializing thing... it's as if they expect, a friend would just pop up. And just remain their friend on stand-by for when they're bored.

That by itself makes me wonder if some just don't understand social dynamics (and not even in a sense of "feeling it", but in a logical way in terms of consequences). I think I'm in touch with reality and social dynamics enough to understand not a single person will sit around at home on stand-by for days waiting for when I might call or text. If that's the idea of having a "friend" is... you wouldn't treat pets like that either.

A thing for me personally, that's hard for me to maintain friendships in general, is that I find it hard to gauge the time I have to spend. Granted it's different for everyone, but still... in between all my hobbies, I sometimes feel I just don't even have time for friends... heck, I even struggle to do anything but pursue my interests. I would say it's obsession, but I don't feel obsessive about it, for me it just takes a long time to get into something and actually get quality time. As a therapist once told me "you need about 24 hours of time for yourself, anything after that could be spent on a job, friends or even sleeping". I really can't do things in small amounts and make it be meaningful for myself.

So with that going on, I can somewhat see how socializing might be hard, but I'm well aware that my situation is just as unique as everyone else's and I'm in no way a blueprint for "the ultimate aspie".

Perhaps the definition of "socializing" differs as well. Some see socializing as the activity to go to a crowded place and interact with people, and most likely physically. As you pointed out, this forum is another way of socializing. I will say that, despite making "friends" on this forum, it's still a totally different thing than making friends in real life. So even the result varies depending on how you socialize. You can wonder if some people are actually interested in the "physical" friend thing (and with that I just mean, someone whom you meet face to face at times, not that specific physical activity). Keeping friends around requires a lot more time and effort. You need to meet up, have a plan what to do, make time... real life isn't like skype where you can chat for 30 minutes and decide that you need to do groceries now and then play a videogame... while, at same time, while already skyping, having a movie run in the background. Physical friends have to make time for each other... and that might actually interfere with someones busy life in pursuing interests (either leisure or for education).

 

[Sportster]

In regard to what Stellaeres said, here in the south we’re intolerant of everything, so it’s not just an NT or Aspie thing.

Seriously, like most Aspies, socializing is the biggest thing for me. I don’t understand why it’s necessary to interact whether it is one or two or a large party (shudder). I have a coworker who can’t make it through the cafeteria without shaking every hand, hugging every neck, etc., etc. It makes me cringe. I struggle with understanding why he does it and how he can do it.

People have always labeled me as a hermit and have even lectured, “You need to get out more. You need to be more open.” Why? Hearing that makes me wonder how they’d feel if I said, “You need to drink poison. You need to try different types.” That’s what social interaction is like for me. I don’t enjoy it; it often makes me ill to some degree. I absolutely fail to understand the attraction and/or need to interact like that.

 

[Ste11aeres]

What I don't understand is that I read how some Aspies on this site are really lonely for friends, but how is a friendship going to happen if you don't want to socialize?

In my case, sometimes I want more friends or more of a social life, and I recognise that socializing is the only way to attain that, but at the same time I know that socializing is going to be exhausting and uncomfortable. It's kind of like with someone who wants to lose weight. They know that the way to do that is to eat less calories than their body wants, And they also know that eating in that way is going to be painful.
And I don't even have the guarantee that socializing will lead to a true in-depth friendship. The times I have had true friendships, I have enjoyed being with that person, but talking to random people that I am not so close to is not so enjoyable. In fact, talking to people I'm no already close to doesn't take away my loneliness.
So one just has to make a decision...solitude with possible acceptance of solitude (sometimes lonely) vs pain of socializing (sometimes leading to rejection).

 

[KassieMac]

I don't understand how so many people boast about being tolerant when it comes to things like religion, or sexual orientation, or race, or something else that is their personal favorite thing to be tolerant about,
but when it comes to something very very trivial and superficial, like someone dressing oddly or having a little stim, odd body language, or unusual vocabulary, they shun that person.
(Although there also are NTs who are very nice and who are accepting, even if a little confused at us).

In my experience, people who brag about being tolerant of others are just trying to convince themselves ... truth is, they need to go back to the beginning & start over. If they truly were tolerant/accepting, they wouldn't feel the need to point out the difference just to say how tolerant they are ... they would just accept them as people and it would be a non-issue. This is my viewpoint on any type of discrimination: race, religion, orientation, neurodiversity, gender, tall v short, thin v heavy, or anything else you can think of. When someone says they're tolerant of 'others' ... well, they've already discriminated just by categorizing them as 'other'.

 

[KassieMac]

What I don't understand is that I read how some Aspies on this site are really lonely for friends, but how is a friendship going to happen if you don't want to socialize?

Here. Friendship happens here.

 

[wyverary]

In my experience, people who brag about being tolerant of others are just trying to convince themselves ... truth is, they need to go back to the beginning & start over. If they truly were tolerant/accepting, they wouldn't feel the need to point out the difference just to say how tolerant they are ... they would just accept them as people and it would be a non-issue. This is my viewpoint on any type of discrimination: race, religion, orientation, neurodiversity, gender, tall v short, thin v heavy, or anything else you can think of. When someone says they're tolerant of 'others' ... well, they've already discriminated just by categorizing them as 'other'.

Why do we even use the word "tolerant"? I thought the goal was "respect and total acceptance"!

 

[Tarragon]

Are there things NT's do that, as an Aspie, make absolutely no sense to you? List those things here and maybe a friendly NT on the site can shed some light about why NT's act like they do.

Hmmm... Asking for an opinion, then getting upset when you don't agree with them. But, after a while on AC, I have seen this trait shared by both NT's and Aspie alike

However, in a work situation, that's when things fall apart for me. People say and do different things, with no real clue as to why or what their motives are. I would tentatively put forth the idea that NT's can be manipulative and selfish. Certainly ASD people fall foul of this far too often to make it an equal trait between nt and aspie? I don't know of any aspies on here that have been like this?

I wouldn't necessarily say that it makes no sense to be like this - it obviously works better for them as they tend to be the ones who keep their jobs. However, why is society set up like this? That makes no sense to me. Especially when it's always the aspie who is told to learn to fit in to the nt world. Wouldn't it be better for the world as a whole if perhaps people weren't like this?

Again, maybe aspies do it and I am not aware of this.

 

[Judge]

What I don't understand is that I read how some Aspies on this site are really lonely for friends, but how is a friendship going to happen if you don't want to socialize?

That's a really good question whether one is NT or Aspie. Maybe some of "us" don't really understand that dynamic either. Only that it is something hardwired in our minds to react in such a way when it comes to socialization in general.

On the other hand, there may be additional reasons which are more easier understood. Such as being lonely and at the same time reticent to seek out others because of continually negative experiences in even minor, benign contact with other people. It becomes a form of conditioning whether we want it that way or not.

I can only say in my own case over so many years that it's most definitely a combination of both.

 

[Grumpy Cat]

Hmmm... Asking for an opinion, then getting upset when you don't agree with them. But, after a while on AC, I have seen this trait shared by both NT's and Aspie alike

However, in a work situation, that's when things fall apart for me. People say and do different things, with no real clue as to why or what their motives are. I would tentatively put forth the idea that NT's can be manipulative and selfish. Certainly ASD people fall foul of this far too often to make it an equal trait between nt and aspie? I don't know of any aspies on here that have been like this?

I wouldn't necessarily say that it makes no sense to be like this - it obviously works better for them as they tend to be the ones who keep their jobs. However, why is society set up like this? That makes no sense to me. Especially when it's always the aspie who is told to learn to fit in to the nt world. Wouldn't it be better for the world as a whole if perhaps people weren't like this?

Again, maybe aspies do it and I am not aware of this.

Can you give specific examples? I can honestly say I don't trust very many of my co-workers except for about 2-3 that are close friends (they even had to prove themselves to me first). I really don't like working with women - they will stab you in the back to get ahead. After knowing what I know about how honest Aspies are, I'd rather work with an Aspie than an NT anytime.

 

[umbrellabeach]

Oh goodness, I could go on for ages about this...
-Asking me "How are you?" and then walking away before I can answer. Someone on Facebook told me that to NTs, that question is just another way of saying "Hi," so they're just greeting me, but it still doesn't make sense. Why ask a question when you can just say hi? Is "Hi" getting boring?
-Coming up to me and someone else when we're clearly having a conversation, and talking to the other person as though I'm not even there. They say Aspies lack social skills and we're rude for interrupting, then they do this...
-Loving it when it's warm outside - even if it's 90 degrees and humid with no breeze - but complaining about it being warm inside even if it's only around 70.
-Telling me to be myself, then attacking me when I say or do something they disagree with. Also telling me to be honest and never to lie, then attacking me when I say something that's totally true but they think it's just rude, and telling me to lie to be polite. I've always hated the phrase "If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all," because some things aren't nice but still need to be said.

 

[KassieMac]

This:

Why do people do this?

Or make plans with me for the next day (sounding excited & enthusiastic) then refuse to come to the phone, and have her husband tell me that she already had other plans? I was married at the time (no threat to her), and I worked with her husband ... he, my husband, and I were all engineers. I was trying to connect with the wife so we could do couples-things together ... but I kept getting mixed signals just like in this cartoon.

 

[Grumpy Cat]

Oh goodness, I could go on for ages about this...
-Asking me "How are you?" and then walking away before I can answer. Someone on Facebook told me that to NTs, that question is just another way of saying "Hi," so they're just greeting me, but it still doesn't make sense. Why ask a question when you can just say hi? Is "Hi" getting boring?
-Coming up to me and someone else when we're clearly having a conversation, and talking to the other person as though I'm not even there. They say Aspies lack social skills and we're rude for interrupting, then they do this...
-Loving it when it's warm outside - even if it's 90 degrees and humid with no breeze - but complaining about it being warm inside even if it's only around 70.
-Telling me to be myself, then attacking me when I say or do something they disagree with. Also telling me to be honest and never to lie, then attacking me when I say something that's totally true but they think it's just rude, and telling me to lie to be polite. I've always hated the phrase "If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all," because some things aren't nice but still need to be said.

The "how are you" is pretty much the same as saying "hi" unless the person means a lot to you and if that's the case you keep eye contact. It's also supposed to look like you care a little about the person you're saying it to - a little more than the just saying "hi" person would matter to you.

I have to admit I've have interrupted during a conversation and not talked to the other person. BUT the only time I have found myself doing this is at work when something is going on with a patient and I need an answer right away and can't wait for the conversation they are having to be over.

Hot weather (90 degrees) annoys me. So that one doesn't really pertain to me.

The last one is a biggie. I always want to know the truth about something (especially if I ask), however, it's the way that its told to me that makes all the difference. I always tell people the truth, but if its not good, I always ask them first if they are sure they want me to tell them because what I have to say may not be good. Then I will usually sit them down and tell them the truth and why I think the way I do. I think it has a lot to do with showing empathy. If a person just blurts out a negative comment to someone without the right facial expressions and right tone of voice, it comes off as being very harsh and factual - like a statement that is said cold and unfeeling. It's really hurtful if it comes from someone that you care about and who you value for their opinion. It definitely matters (to NT's) in how one tells them the truth.

 

[Grumpy Cat]

This:

View attachment 11650

Why do people do this?

Or make plans with me for the next day (sounding excited & enthusiastic) then refuse to come to the phone, and have her husband tell me that she already had other plans? I was married at the time (no threat to her), and I worked with her husband ... he, my husband, and I were all engineers. I was trying to connect with the wife so we could do couples-things together ... but I kept getting mixed signals just like in this cartoon.

Some of my coworkers (all women) do the exact same thing as what is in that comedy strip. Honestly, I don't understand it and I try to stay away from them. They say they're friends yet they talk about each other behind the other ones back. I never tell them anything about me that I wouldn't want my worst enemy to know. Knowing who you can trust is trial and error. I try to watch how a person treats other people and that's probably how they will treat you most of the time.

Sometimes a person will make plans while thinking and knowing at the time they are making the plans that they really are not going to follow through with what they are planning. Usually it's because they are uncomfortable telling you face to face that they really don't want to spend time with you. Then when you called, her poor husband was the one who had to tell you the truth. People like that aren't worth your time. I also don't make plans with anyone who stands me up more than once - or I wait a really long time before asking them again. A person who stands someone up more than once - it's usually a habit for them and I consider it rude and unacceptable.

Oh, NTs use the line "I already have other plans" A LOT. If you hear that line, it usually means they don't want to do anything with you or they really don't want to do what you want to do (like a party they would rather not attend).

 

[KassieMac]

Some of my coworkers (all women) do the exact same thing as what is in that comedy strip. Honestly, I don't understand it and I try to stay away from them. They say they're friends yet they talk about each other behind the other ones back. I never tell them anything about me that I wouldn't want my worst enemy to know. Knowing who you can trust is trial and error. I try to watch how a person treats other people and that's probably how they will treat you most of the time.

Sometimes a person will make plans while thinking and knowing at the time they are making the plans that they really are not going to follow through with what they are planning. Usually it's because they are uncomfortable telling you face to face that they really don't want to spend time with you. Then when you called, her poor husband was the one who had to tell you the truth. People like that aren't worth your time. I also don't make plans with anyone who stands me up more than once - or I wait a really long time before asking them again. A person who stands someone up more than once - it's usually a habit for them and I consider it rude and unacceptable.

Oh, NTs use the line "I already have other plans" A LOT. If you hear that line, it usually means they don't want to do anything with you or they really don't want to do what you want to do (like a party they would rather not attend).

The thing is, she initiated the plans the day before … I don't think her husband was supposed to tell me about this other thing she'd been planning for a week.

We really didn't have anything in common, I'm not very girly and she didn't know anything about our jobs. But when the four of us got together, me & the guys would get talking engineering geek-speak & she seemed to feel left out. So as awkward as it was for me, I was trying to reach out & make some sort of connection. Never made that mistake again!

 

[Grumpy Cat]

The thing is, she initiated the plans the day before … I don't think her husband was supposed to tell me about this other thing she'd been planning for a week.

We really didn't have anything in common, I'm not very girly and she didn't know anything about our jobs. But when the four of us got together, me & the guys would get talking engineering geek-speak & she seemed to feel left out. So as awkward as it was for me, I was trying to reach out & make some sort of connection. Never made that mistake again!

What happened with me was one of my friends (who I consider to be very close) made plans with me and had to break them the next day because she made an honest mistake and forgot that her bf bday fell on that weekend so she let me know why she had to cancel. My thing with what this woman did to you is she should have (pardon my expression) had "some balls" and come to the phone to speak to you personally AND apologize - but by doing that, it would have left her open to having to reschedule new plans with you. The way she did it was really not good and I'm sorry you went through that. It must have really been awkward. Thinking a different way, she might just feel out of place going out with the four of you, but if it was just you and her, I'm thinking she was jealous of you being on the same level as her husband. Women (NT) are jealous of other women when it comes to jobs. Idk if its like that with women engineers, but the women I work with are always competing with who knows more and who has the highest degrees. I would love to work with men any day.
The same friend I mentioned above, I haven't asked her to do anything anymore because I made plans at Christmas for us and our Ma's to go out and she cancelled at the last minute and really hurt my Ma (and me honestly). We had went to a lot of trouble getting gifts and the whole nine yards. She's a good friend, but I've learned my lesson - at least for awhile. My other friend (she's like a second Ma) is like me - when we make plans it's set in stone. My Ma and me have went out with her and her husband once already and have planned another outing in a couple weeks. I know I can depend on them not to cancel and I know I won't cancel. It's really hard to find dependable people these days.