Trying to Understand

[Akemi]

Alright, so this is going to be a bit lengthy, but any advice or help/support is welcome. I will try to list the questions so that they can be found with and without all the lengthy explanation.

Questions:

- Any advice on how to converse about something that isn't "hey, how are you? how's work? what's the weather like?"

- How can I pretend the best friend I have isn't someone I am afraid to lose? (I have noticed my fear of losing him clouds my ability to understand him and communicate properly)

I want to start this by admitting that I haven't ever been on forums before, and until my best friend found some in his quest to understand me, I never even realized the internet had forums specifically for Asperger's and others like us or on the spectrum and their loved ones. I have been poking around since last night and I keep seeing stories that I can relate to, so I am not worried as I would be about being judged.

My best friend and I (though, currently to him I am a "when I find you have something not meaningless to say" friend, which isn't as bad as it sounds, just a bit confusing) have been close (and getting close) for two years now. He is a NT, but he has nearly limitless patience and understands me very well. He has always been interested in different types of mental states, but has had his own experiences that he has to handle even while he talks to me, and I try to be aware and understanding of it (too aware, honestly as he recently reminded me that he can see the differences in situations so I shouldn't worry about it.)

The "problem" is this, he tries and works so hard to understand me and help teach me things, but he has (understandably and as I warned him it could happen) reached his point of "no more explaining" which is why I am in the "only if you have something worth talking about" boat. It isn't a bad boat, but he is the only person I talk to and has made strict lines about what I can't say now, in order to protect himself and to help me grow (which is good because I need to learn how to converse in the manner he is trying to encourage).

He has often said that I am too formal and that much of my conversation seems to be based on "social etiquette" and just polite stuff, or that I just dump everything (typically emotions) on him. I understand he says there is a middle ground, I know it exists because he and I frequently would be there when I would get relaxed and it was nice. The thing is, frequently (painfully so), I would overthink something he said, miss his tone, not catch mine...you guys get the point, and the anxiety and fear of losing such an amazing person would force me into the introverted introspection and it has ended so much fun.

He understands me and accepts me, but my fear has left me worried about what I could do/say to make sure he was happy or would keep me around. The sudden stepping back he has done has triggered my anxiety and depression hard. Times like these I never sleep well, I get physically ill from the stress, and I can't stop thinking about what I can do to fix it. The thing is, I pretty much have to rebuild from square one, and I don't know when I will mess up again, but I am tired of him having to doubt what I mean all the time. I know this is when I should step up and start proving it, but I don't know how without being the "all or nothing" because if I go one more day where I don't talk to him because I have "nothing" and can't do "all" then I may lose my mind.

 

[Theta.G]

__

After reading the post seems the main problem is your fear. If that is solved you'll fall back into comfort with the person and conversations would be more natural.
Is it a common fear with those you become close with?
Or has this only occurred with this person?
etc.



Some general social communications tips:
Talk about the other persons interests.
Lets say your friend is interested in... farming for example. Ask him questions about it, learn of his interests.
So what is it about farming you like?
Usually the answer will have leads you can build off of.
"I like growing my own food that way i know what's in it"
"What's in it?"
"yes alot of our food from grocery stores has low nutrient value and is often laced with harmful chemicals. Yet, is genetically engineered to LOOK healthy."
(you can extract several points here to talk about it)

Once you get this person talking about their own interests... if their answers seem short. Sometimes remaining silent while gazing at them for a few seconds will invoke an urge within him to fill the silence with more chatter.

If he is "too aware" and distracted... communicate in a setting where both he and you are comfortable.
For instance. If hyper awareness is a problem in public settings then going to a nice restaurant to eat and expecting to have in depth chats is unrealistic. If this was a dinner at your or his home where y'all can be comfortable... chatter will probably flow more naturally.

 

[Akemi]

__

After reading the post seems the main problem is your fear. If that is solved you'll fall back into comfort with the person and conversations would be more natural.
Is it a common fear with those you become close with?
Or has this only occurred with this person?
etc.



Some general social communications tips:
Talk about the other persons interests.
Lets say your friend is interested in... farming for example. Ask him questions about it, learn of his interests.
So what is it about farming you like?
Usually the answer will have leads you can build off of.
"I like growing my own food that way i know what's in it"
"What's in it?"
"yes alot of our food from grocery stores has low nutrient value and is often laced with harmful chemicals. Yet, is genetically engineered to LOOK healthy."
(you can extract several points here to talk about it)

Once you get this person talking about their own interests... if their answers seem short. Sometimes remaining silent while gazing at them for a few seconds will invoke an urge within him to fill the silence with more chatter.

If he is "too aware" and distracted... communicate in a setting where both he and you are comfortable.
For instance. If hyper awareness is a problem in public settings then going to a nice restaurant to eat and expecting to have in depth chats is unrealistic. If this was a dinner at your or his home where y'all can be comfortable... chatter will probably flow.

This makes sense, and I am working on not being afraid. I know that it stems from a lot of things in the past (bullying, lots of contradicting statements about me, getting cast aside easily, etc) so I have low self esteem and self worth, but he hasn't ever made me doubt (as long as I was reasonable) that he truly cares about me and loves me. Even now he says he doesn't care, but I know his tendencies and he wouldn't still allow me to talk at all if that were the case. He still sees hope in it. We are strictly online, so I can't stare him into submission via text, though it has happened once that I know of when I had my video on. His reaction was amazing...

 

[Theta.G]

If it's strictly online communications then ... hmmm... that changes the game so to speak lol

Have you considered watching movies or videos together on an app such as rabb.it?

Your friend there is really good at setting boundaries i'm surprised.

"I would overthink something he said, miss his tone, not catch mine"
One of the biggest problems with online communication is this. Can't easilt set a tone with vocal tonality lol through text communication it's often subtle and goes by undetected.


"I know this is when I should step up and start proving it, but I don't know how without being the "all or nothing" because if I go one more day where I don't talk to him because I have "nothing" and can't do "all" then I may lose my mind."
It's gotten a little convoluted...Sorry but i'm confused here.
How does being an all or nothing type factor into this.
You talking about relationship? Being overly positive? Or acting the way he wants you to?
Where you have "nothing" and can't do "all". If your not emotionally unloading then there's nothing to talk about?

Idk what exactly he was trying to teach you but teaching people, even those who are willing is not easy unless the subject itself is easy. What has been trying teach you?

So he's critical of you but is he also working on his issues that stress you out and cause to over analyze? increasing his attention span or is this sort-of one sided when it comes to change for one another?

 

[Akemi]

If it's strictly online communications then ... hmmm... that changes the game so to speak lol

Have you considered watching movies or videos together on an app such as rabb.it?

Your friend there is really good at setting boundaries i'm surprised.

"I would overthink something he said, miss his tone, not catch mine"
One of the biggest problems with online communication is this. Can't easilt set a tone with vocal tonality lol through text communication it's often subtle and goes by undetected.


"I know this is when I should step up and start proving it, but I don't know how without being the "all or nothing" because if I go one more day where I don't talk to him because I have "nothing" and can't do "all" then I may lose my mind."
It's gotten a little convoluted...Sorry but i'm confused here.
How does being an all or nothing type factor into this.
You talking about relationship? Being overly positive? Or acting the way he wants you to?
Where you have "nothing" and can't do "all". If your not emotionally unloading then there's nothing to talk about?

(moved this cause it got lost in your quote because I am a dork) so, to the first point. we do lots of watching stuff together normally. we used to game a lot more together (but then my shut downs killed it). so then it wound up mostly videos and sometimes conversations. but if at any point I hit shut down, the night was over for me.

I know how to talk about really deep things, and I can fake enough small talk (which is the typical nothing in this scenario, but right now he pretty much doesn't talk to me) but I can't find that balance where I don't just say 'here have all my mental turmoil.' I am often seen as overly negative and self centered, but all my thoughts are always about how to get to the happy, how to help the person, but when I speak it....it comes out "about me." I don't do anything in life. School stuff isn't good for conversation (that falls into the pleasantries), I don't do anything extraordinary at home. I clean, I have pets, I game, read. That is it. He has said stories about the pets are fine, so any cute story I have been committing to memory. I haven't been doing anything in game worth talking about, and am on the fence about asking for his help with dungeons I need to run because I know that game is where a lot of the shut downs occur (a huge reason I am in this mess). I know I have gotten a better handle on the game and the functionality, so I really should be okay as long as I can control my reactions to what he tells me when we run the dungeons (he tries giving advice but it can quickly get overwhelming). I am just scrambling for stuff to talk to him about at this point because I actually care about this relationship and there is a good lesson here if I can manage to learn this new form of conversing.

 

[Theta.G]

There was an interesting development years ago with online communications via social media. In a way people have been entrained to talk about topics by relaying their personal experiences.

It was heavy in many forums, message boards and communities. Toned down to moderate lately. You could view just about any thread. Like there could be someone who made a thread about anxiety asking for a fix then most if not all replies would me "Oh ya i have anxiety. *partial life story* me, my, i. then sometimes they don't even include a fix. Sometimes they do.

Even people looking to just have conversations with others on sites would be met with an echo chamber. Dozens of people just i, i, i, me, me, me. with absolutely no conversations cropping up.
Ok so... tip.

It does take some conscious effort to step outside that norm. This has a direct impact on how self centered one seems. Regardless of if you are or not. Lets take a look at your previous post. I'll BOLD the i's and me's.

I know how to talk about really deep things, and I can fake enough small talk (which is the typical nothing in this scenario, but right now he pretty much doesn't talk to me) but I can't find that balance where I don't just say 'here have all my mental turmoil.' I am often seen as overly negative and self centered, but all my thoughts are always about how to get to the happy, how to help the person, but when I speak it....it comes out "about me." I don't do anything in life. School stuff isn't good for conversation (that falls into the pleasantries), I don't do anything extraordinary at home. I clean, I have pets, I game, read. That is it. He has said stories about the pets are fine, so any cute story I have been committing to memory. I haven't been doing anything in game worth talking about, and am on the fence about asking for his help with dungeons I need to run because I know that game is where a lot of the shut downs occur (a huge reason I am in this mess). I know I have gotten a better handle on the game and the functionality, so I really should be okay as long as I can control my reactions to what he tells me when we run the dungeons (he tries giving advice but it can quickly get overwhelming).

There are alot of "I's" in there which could be reduced plenty or replaced with we's.As an exercise you can review your own posts quickly and see in which ways you cut down on how many self references there are.

Then you can start adding in more you's when translating your well intentioned thoughts into communications.

Just curious are you into pop / popular music by any chance?

Speaking from experience and the experience of others a guy who is good at the game trying to teach a girl friend how to play it must be a really patient person. Since he is not, maybe playing together was a bad idea. There are other ways y'all can connect and communicate right?

 

[TheFreeCat]

I would never last long with anyone who tried to tell me what I could or could not talk about or how ,etc.

Why is he teaching you? Maybe you should be teaching him how to talk about deep things.

There are enough NTs. You need to be who you are. Talk deep things. Most people cannot. Why waste that gift because an NT does not like it?

Makes no sense to me at all. It must not make 100% sense to you, either, or you would not have posted.

I hope you see your gifts are priceless and rare and worthy of being fostered and nurtured and not snipped in any way!

 

[Akemi]

There was an interesting development years ago with online communications via social media. In a way people have been entrained to talk about topics by relaying their personal experiences.

It was heavy in many forums, message boards and communities. Toned down to moderate lately. You could view just about any thread. Like there could be someone who made a thread about anxiety asking for a fix then most if not replies would me "Oh ya i have anxiety. *partial life story* me, my, i. then sometimes they don't even include a fix. Sometimes they do.
Ok so... tip.

It does take some conscious effort to step outside that norm. This has a direct impact on how self centered one seems. Regardless of if you are or not. Lets take a look at your previous post. I'll BOLD the i's and me's.

I know how to talk about really deep things, and I can fake enough small talk (which is the typical nothing in this scenario, but right now he pretty much doesn't talk to me) but I can't find that balance where I don't just say 'here have all my mental turmoil.' I am often seen as overly negative and self centered, but all my thoughts are always about how to get to the happy, how to help the person, but when I speak it....it comes out "about me." I don't do anything in life. School stuff isn't good for conversation (that falls into the pleasantries), I don't do anything extraordinary at home. I clean, I have pets, I game, read. That is it. He has said stories about the pets are fine, so any cute story I have been committing to memory. I haven't been doing anything in game worth talking about, and am on the fence about asking for his help with dungeons I need to run because I know that game is where a lot of the shut downs occur (a huge reason I am in this mess). I know I have gotten a better handle on the game and the functionality, so I really should be okay as long as I can control my reactions to what he tells me when we run the dungeons (he tries giving advice but it can quickly get overwhelming).

There are alot of "I's" in there which could be reduced plenty or replaced with we's.As an exercise you can review your own posts quickly and see in which ways you cut down on how many self references there are.

Just curious are you into pop / popular music by any chance?

Speaking from experience and the experience of others a guy who is good at the game trying to teach a girl friend how to play it must be really patient. Since he is not, maybe playing together was a bad idea. There are other ways y'all can connect and communicate right?

I understand what you mean and will continue to try and look into working that into my life. I am not really into what plays on the radio frequently nowadays. He is typically very patient, but it wasn't he and I alone, it was a a 4-8 person dungeon and the others wouldn't always be in our friend group. When things were able to go slower he is always really good, in fact other games we played fine together, that one was just a lot of mental strain on me to give advice mid run.

I don't know. Our whole friendship revolves around gaming (sometimes that would just be him streaming a game for me), watching videos/shows/recordings, RPing, and talking. If he feels uneasy about being around people, however (like he currently is with me), then he withdraws for a breather. That is why I am trying to understand how to do things better with him. He really is fantastic and an amazing person and friend, but this rough spot has made him pull away further than I really would like. I put his happiness first, though, so I am doing what I can by learning about me and my disorder here and trying to make new connections so that I don't have to "burden" him with everything in my life.

 

[Akemi]

I would never last long with anyone who tried to tell me what I could or could not talk about or how ,etc.

Why is he teaching you? Maybe you should be teaching him how to talk about deep things.

There are enough NTs. You need to be who you are. Talk deep things. Most people cannot. Why waste that gift because an NT does not like it?

Makes no sense to me at all. It must not make 100% sense to you, either, or you would not have posted.

I hope you see your gifts are priceless and rare and worthy of being fostered and nurtured and not snipped in any way!

No, no, he and I talk deep a lot, but he wants to help me learn that (especially with others, and on occasion with him) that less than deep, but more than superficial is alright. The only reason he tries teaching me anything is because he sees that I want to learn, but then that started draining on him very heavily. He wants to help me learn to talk in a more positive and healthy manner (instead of always coming off as depressed) so that I can do that with other people, because he and I are good at clarifying with each other. The issue lies in how long someone can help another before they need a break, not what he is teaching me, to be honest. I am sorry for confusing you. He is just pulling away to his space for the time being and has set up boundaries for that, these are not normal things, that is why it is so hard.

 

[TheFreeCat]

There was an interesting development years ago with online communications via social media. In a way people have been entrained to talk about topics by relaying their personal experiences.

It was heavy in many forums, message boards and communities. Toned down to moderate lately. You could view just about any thread. Like there could be someone who made a thread about anxiety asking for a fix then most if not all replies would me "Oh ya i have anxiety. *partial life story* me, my, i. then sometimes they don't even include a fix. Sometimes they do.

Even people looking to just have conversations with others on sites would be met with an echo chamber. Dozens of people just i, i, i, me, me, me. with absolutely no conversations cropping up.
Ok so... tip.

It does take some conscious effort to step outside that norm. This has a direct impact on how self centered one seems. Regardless of if you are or not. Lets take a look at your previous post. I'll BOLD the i's and me's.

I know how to talk about really deep things, and I can fake enough small talk (which is the typical nothing in this scenario, but right now he pretty much doesn't talk to me) but I can't find that balance where I don't just say 'here have all my mental turmoil.' I am often seen as overly negative and self centered, but all my thoughts are always about how to get to the happy, how to help the person, but when I speak it....it comes out "about me." I don't do anything in life. School stuff isn't good for conversation (that falls into the pleasantries), I don't do anything extraordinary at home. I clean, I have pets, I game, read. That is it. He has said stories about the pets are fine, so any cute story I have been committing to memory. I haven't been doing anything in game worth talking about, and am on the fence about asking for his help with dungeons I need to run because I know that game is where a lot of the shut downs occur (a huge reason I am in this mess). I know I have gotten a better handle on the game and the functionality, so I really should be okay as long as I can control my reactions to what he tells me when we run the dungeons (he tries giving advice but it can quickly get overwhelming).

There are alot of "I's" in there which could be reduced plenty or replaced with we's.As an exercise you can review your own posts quickly and see in which ways you cut down on how many self references there are.

Then you can start adding in more you's when translating your well intentioned thoughts into communications.

Just curious are you into pop / popular music by any chance?

Speaking from experience and the experience of others a guy who is good at the game trying to teach a girl friend how to play it must be a really patient person. Since he is not, maybe playing together was a bad idea. There are other ways y'all can connect and communicate right?

It seems no one wants to hear anything BUT personal stories. It is a way to relate. When people try to start posts of their special interests, it fades out . But if someone starts to relate a story of how a certain medication helped or hurt, or abuse, or a deep mental issue, that post will go strong and long.

People are online looking for help and personal stories are a way for people to connect and try new things.

 

[Akemi]

It seems no one wants to hear anything BUT personal stories. It is a way to relate. When people try to start posts of their special interests, it fades out . But if someone starts to relate a story of how a certain medication helped or hurt, or abuse, or a deep mental issue, that post will go strong and long.

People are online looking for help and personal stories are a way for people to connect and try new things.

I can understand what you mean, but I don't see it as applying to this. If I would talk about anything that was interesting (a video, a movie, childhood stories, pet stories, games, etc) it would be on the middle road. I seem to lack the ability to see those as "appropriate" topics, though. The bright side is, because I am having to explain the things that he WOULD be okay with me mentioning I finally can understand WHAT he is looking for me to talk about. Down side is that answer is so simple I feel like a moron for overlooking it....Progress!

 

[Theta.G]

It seems no one wants to hear anything BUT personal stories. It is a way to relate. When people try to start posts of their special interests, it fades out . But if someone starts to relate a story of how a certain medication helped or hurt, or abuse, or a deep mental issue, that post will go strong and long.

People are online looking for help and personal stories are a way for people to connect and try new things.

Yea... Understood. And i see what you're talking about regularly.
Drugs are a .... special example. As when trying to get off of them the best way to find out how is from talking to others who have also came off of them successfully. Safe ways to get off of drugs is one of the most suppressed things on the internet... at least, in the U.S. I suspect the same for other western countries.

Aside from their highly questionable doctor who put them in that terrible position in the first place... where else would they get good actionable information? Certainly not from Google / Youtube or duckduckgo. It's possible to find accurate and reasonably safe ways through these means but it's not at all likely and will be extremely time consuming. Anyway

I'm mainly talking about activity several years ago in threads that had no business with that form of communication. I'm not talking about this forum in particular.

A post like : What is your favorite [anything] and why?
Encourages people to talk about themselves. That's fine.

A post like: how many organs does a chipmunk have?
Does not.
------
Alternatively, there was another common trend in various threads example: "Lets have a discussion about climate change" And not a single person is actually having a discussion or conversation with any of the other users. (Again, several years ago)
See you and i are talking back and forth now. Others quote each other and have conversations regularly here. A few years ago i did not see that take place. in many, many message boards and forums. They were echo chambers.

 

[Fino]

- How can I pretend the best friend I have isn't someone I am afraid to lose? (I have noticed my fear of losing him clouds my ability to understand him and communicate properly)

I'm a bit confused about this, but sorry if someone already talked about it!

You want to pretend you're not afraid to lose him because the fear clouds your abilities?

But pretending wouldn't make you less clouded, would it?

Pretending would just make you come off as less fearful, I think?

It might even cloud your thinking more, due to the effort of pretending.

 

[Akemi]

Yea... Understood. And i see what you're talking about regularly.
Drugs are a .... special example. As when trying to get off of them the best way to find out how is from talking to others who have also came off of them successfully. Safe ways to get off of drugs is one of the most suppressed things on the internet... at least, in the U.S. I suspect the same for other western countries.

Aside from their highly questionable doctor who put them in that terrible position in the first place... where else would they get good actionable information? Certainly not from Google / Youtube or duckduckgo. It's possible to find accurate and reasonably safe ways through these means but it's not at all likely and will be extremely time consuming. Anyway

I'm mainly talking about activity several years ago in threads that had no business with that form of communication. I'm not talking about this forum in particular.

A post like : What is your favorite [anything] and why?
Encourages people to talk about themselves. That's fine.

A post like: how many organs does a chipmunk have?
Does not.
------
Alternatively, there was another common trend in various threads example: "Lets have a discussion about climate change" And not a single person is actually having a discussion or conversation with any of the other users. (Again, several years ago)
See you and i are talking back and forth now. Others quote each other and have conversations regularly here. A few years ago i did not see that take place. in many, many message boards and forums. They were echo chambers.

I don't understand how humans can participate in things like that. Interaction with others is how the species became "dominant" and how we further advances in all fields, but people online feel they have no need for communication skills or the ability to actually converse. My friend was concerned that I would not be able to pass a job interview with my communication skills, so he offered help. This site offers that sort of help all the time, I can't imagine how people don't realize that is a crucial need for everyone.

 

[Akemi]

I'm a bit confused about this, but sorry if someone already talked about it!

You want to pretend you're not afraid to lose him because the fear clouds your abilities?

But pretending wouldn't make you less clouded, would it?

Pretending would just make you come off as less fearful, I think?

It might even cloud your thinking more, due to the effort of pretending.

No one has brought this up as of yet, and I see what you mean. It is completely possible that it would cloud me, I guess the better question would be how do I show and act like I am accepting and trusting of him staying there. He has never shown any sign that he would leave, other than to cool down, so I feel all pretenses are gone. I need to show that I know it, not just act like I am not scared. Accept the fear and prove it wrong.

 

[Fino]

No one has brought this up as of yet, and I see what you mean. It is completely possible that it would cloud me, I guess the better question would be how do I show and act like I am accepting and trusting of him staying there. He has never shown any sign that he would leave, other than to cool down, so I feel all pretenses are gone. I need to show that I know it, not just act like I am not scared. Accept the fear and prove it wrong.

Maybe this or things like it could be helpful:

Fear of Abandonment: Overcoming the Fear of Being Left Alone

It's not something I've conquered though, so I can't be all that helpful. There are people I've known for years who have shown no signs of leaving and I still panic for no logical reason.

 

[Akemi]

Maybe this or things like it could be helpful:

Fear of Abandonment: Overcoming the Fear of Being Left Alone

It's not something I've conquered though, so I can't be all that helpful. There are people I've known for years who have shown no signs of leaving and I still panic for no logical reason.

Thanks so much! I will have a look at it when I get a moment! ^^

 

[Theta.G]

I don't understand how humans can participate in things like that. Interaction with others is how the species became "dominant" and how we further advances in all fields, but people online feel they have no need for communication skills or the ability to actually converse. My friend was concerned that I would not be able to pass a job interview with my communication skills, so he offered help. This site offers that sort of help all the time, I can't imagine how people don't realize that is a crucial need for everyone.

It largely stems from forces outside of their control...

Spoiler

If they don't know their social behaviors, thought processes and online conduct are being hijacked and modified (or in what ways this is happening) they wouldn't even know what questions to ask in the first place or where to start looking. Little to no awareness.
For example... i know someone who developed a small awareness of the food they eat. Without doing any further research or study they purchase a product that looks healthier. (Already trained to pick that healthy looking packaging...) that they heard was better. That the package tells them is better. Without ever checking the ingredients, investigating how it is produced, and yada yada... they select an inferior version of the product. They then microwave the product for several minutes then boil that product in water, encased in aluminum foil... which seeped into the food of course... This person thinks they were eating healthy... But holy **** this is one worst things ever... This person has no real awareness on the matter and therefore cannot make informed decisions on how to choose and cook healthy foods.

For this example will use Facebook since it's closely related to what we're talking about.
Anyone can look up facebook scandals specifically the psych experiments or the co-founder turned whistle blower. But how many dive deep into the tactics disclosed? How many run back to using their service and justify it while still not understanding the implications? Why it changes how their mind works? How many start studying their own mind and it's vulnerabilities? How long are they able to dig for? How many of those impacted listened to the whistle blower then fled to watching something comforting after and ignore his speech? How many foolishly have their ego kick in "Hah! They can't do that to me! My mind is a steel fortress for absolutely no reason!"
Many don't have the attention span for this. Many flee at the moment a dismissive article claiming to debunk it gives them a life line out of the truth, back into the world of ignorance. Through fallacies. Billions of dollars have been spent on exploiting human psychology and manipulating how mass groups of people think & act. Some things are extremely subtle so, what chance do these people have?
They could go to do a variety of surface level methods to improve their social and communication skills but if they continue to use Facebook in a time period where they are still effing with their users minds... their efforts won't go very far for improvement, if anywhere at all. "I know! I'll talk to more of my friends... on snapchat... on facebook" Derp.

When the amount of people doing this grew, more people got sucked in, repetition reinforced the programming then you have the bandwagon effect and the normalization of new social trends.

"Interaction with others is how the species became "dominant" and how we further advances in all fields"
You're right however connection and unity isn't encouraged by society. Nearly everything you see promoted by Facebook, youtube / google, other media organizations virtually all forms of
prevalent media is there to create and install beliefs of division. Divide. An unfathomable amount of psychological exploits coupled with commands have dug their way down to the deepest aspects of human psychology, in those who frequently use the internet. Encouraging, positive messages about unity... partnerships, the formation of masterminds groups are out of sight, therefore out of mind. Typically when they do surface in sight through popular avenues that's to install traps. "Oh look, our group effort is working!" some time later "Oh no, it all ended in tragedy / betrayl / division / failure" whatever.

With that being said, today there are many who realize it but they don't know how to change it. And while it is an important skill there are many dealing with bigger problems.

Apologies reply was longer than i intended lol you don't have to respond if you don't want

 

[Akemi]

It largely stems from forces outside of their control...

Spoiler

If they don't know they're social behaviors, thought processes and online conduct are being hijacked and modified (or in what ways this is happening) they wouldn't even know what questions to ask in the first place or where to start looking. Little to no awareness.
For example... i know someone who developed a small awareness of the food they eat. Without doing any further research or study they purchase a product that looks healthier. (Already trained to pick that healthy looking packaging...) that they heard was better. That the package tells them is better. Without ever checking the ingredients, investigating how it is produced, and yada yada... they select an inferior version of the product. They then microwave the product for several minutes then boil that product in water, encased in aluminum foil... which seeped into the food of course... This person thinks they were eating healthy... But holy **** this is one worst things ever... This person has no real awareness on the matter and therefore cannot make informed decisions on how to choose and cook healthy foods.

For this example will use Facebook since it's closely related to what we're talking about.
Anyone can look up facebook scandals specifically the psych experiments or the co-founder turned whistle blower. But how many dive deep into the tactics disclosed? How many run back to using their service and justify it while still not understanding the implications? Why it changes how their mind works? How many start studying their own mind and it's vulnerabilities? How long are they able to dig for? How many of those impacted listened to the whistle blower then fled to watching something comforting after and ignore his speech? How many foolishly have their ego kick in "Hah! They can't do that to me! My mind is a steel fortress for absolutely no reason!"
Many don't have the attention span for this. Many flee at the moment a dismissive article claiming to debunk it gives them a life line out of the truth, back into the world of ignorance. Through fallacies. Billions of dollars have been spent on exploiting human psychology and manipulating how mass groups of people think & act. Some things are extremely subtle so, what chance do these people have?
They could go to do a variety of surface level methods to improve their social and communication skills but if they continue to use Facebook in a time period where they are still effing with their users minds... their efforts won't go very far for improvement, if anywhere at all. "I know! I'll talk to more of my friends... on snapchat... on facebook" Derp.

When the amount of people doing this grew, more people got sucked in, repetition reinforced the programming then you have the bandwagon effect and the normalization of new social trends.

"Interaction with others is how the species became "dominant" and how we further advances in all fields"
You're right however connection and unity isn't encouraged by society. Nearly everything you see promoted by Facebook, youtube / google, other media organizations virtually all forms of
prevalent media is there to create and install beliefs of division. Divide. An unfathomable amount of psychological exploits coupled with commands have dug their way down to the deepest aspects of human psychology, in those who frequently use the internet. Encouraging, positive messages about unity... partnerships, the formation of masterminds groups are out of sight, therefore out of mind. Typically when they do surface in sight through popular avenues that's to install traps. "Oh look, our group effort is working!" some time later "Oh no, it all ended in tragedy / betrayl / division / failure" whatever.

With that being said, today there are many who realize it but they don't know how to change it. And while it is an important skill there are many dealing with bigger problems.

Apologies reply was longer than i intended lol you don't have to respond if you don't want

These are the things I love to hear. However, I am running on the end of a high (got to talk to the friend I mentioned in this post and just love his voice so much it soothes my everything it was l lovely, but I know it isn't all fixed yet) and nearly no sleep. Please don't think I won't give this a proper response when I have more awake brain cells.

 

[Theta.G]

Ditto, see ya tomorrow
Good night