Trying to Understand

[TheFreeCat]

Yea... Understood. And i see what you're talking about regularly.
Drugs are a .... special example. As when trying to get off of them the best way to find out how is from talking to others who have also came off of them successfully. Safe ways to get off of drugs is one of the most suppressed things on the internet... at least, in the U.S. I suspect the same for other western countries.

Aside from their highly questionable doctor who put them in that terrible position in the first place... where else would they get good actionable information? Certainly not from Google / Youtube or duckduckgo. It's possible to find accurate and reasonably safe ways through these means but it's not at all likely and will be extremely time consuming. Anyway

I'm mainly talking about activity several years ago in threads that had no business with that form of communication. I'm not talking about this forum in particular.

A post like : What is your favorite [anything] and why?
Encourages people to talk about themselves. That's fine.

A post like: how many organs does a chipmunk have?
Does not.
------
Alternatively, there was another common trend in various threads example: "Lets have a discussion about climate change" And not a single person is actually having a discussion or conversation with any of the other users. (Again, several years ago)
See you and i are talking back and forth now. Others quote each other and have conversations regularly here. A few years ago i did not see that take place. in many, many message boards and forums. They were echo chambers.

That is curious. No Aspies wanted to talk about climate change?

I went to an Aspie group. Filled with brilliant people! And yet, it was either no talk or a special interest that would get totally out of control.

One man I listened to could tell you the day of the week you were born, your mom, your dad, your uncle, aunt, teacher, the president, the VP, the group leader, Bob, joe, Sally, his GF, his mom and dad, brother and two sisters............

That is what makes us Aspie. We do NOT get that smooth give and take, the "talk now, quiet now, listen now".

So I listened and let him talk for 45 minutes and I am glad I did. I made a cool friend. And once he saw I GOT IT, the next time he did not talk.....almost at all! So I connected and we are "friends" even though he does not talk anymore!

But I was honoured to be one he chose to show his gift to. I would NEVER EVER EVER try to tell him to back off or tone it down or presume to "teach him" how to communicate. It was a priceless gift.

If anything I should have begged him to show me how he did it. Of course, he can't because it's his gift, but OPs friend cannot "teach her" how to communicate NT, either.

 

[Akemi]

That is curious. No Aspies wanted to talk about climate change?

I went to an Aspie group. Filled with brilliant people! And yet, it was either no talk or a special interest that would get totally out of control.

One man I listened to could tell you the day of the week you were born, your mom, your dad, your uncle, aunt, teacher, the president, the VP, the group leader, Bob, joe, Sally, his GF, his mom and dad, brother and two sisters............

That is what makes us Aspie. We do NOT get that smooth give and take, the "talk now, quiet now, listen now".

So I listened and let him talk for 45 minutes and I am glad I did. I made a cool friend. And once he saw I GOT IT, the next time he did not talk.....almost at all! So I connected and we are "friends" even though he does not talk anymore!

But I was honoured to be one he chose to show his gift to. I would NEVER EVER EVER try to tell him to back off or tone it down or presume to "teach him" how to communicate. It was a priceless gift.

If anything I should have begged him to show me how he did it. Of course, he can't because it's his gift, but OPs friend cannot "teach her" how to communicate NT, either.

While I know that you think it is the case, I actually have learned a lot from him. The difference in

It largely stems from forces outside of their control...

Spoiler

If they don't know their social behaviors, thought processes and online conduct are being hijacked and modified (or in what ways this is happening) they wouldn't even know what questions to ask in the first place or where to start looking. Little to no awareness.
For example... i know someone who developed a small awareness of the food they eat. Without doing any further research or study they purchase a product that looks healthier. (Already trained to pick that healthy looking packaging...) that they heard was better. That the package tells them is better. Without ever checking the ingredients, investigating how it is produced, and yada yada... they select an inferior version of the product. They then microwave the product for several minutes then boil that product in water, encased in aluminum foil... which seeped into the food of course... This person thinks they were eating healthy... But holy **** this is one worst things ever... This person has no real awareness on the matter and therefore cannot make informed decisions on how to choose and cook healthy foods.

For this example will use Facebook since it's closely related to what we're talking about.
Anyone can look up facebook scandals specifically the psych experiments or the co-founder turned whistle blower. But how many dive deep into the tactics disclosed? How many run back to using their service and justify it while still not understanding the implications? Why it changes how their mind works? How many start studying their own mind and it's vulnerabilities? How long are they able to dig for? How many of those impacted listened to the whistle blower then fled to watching something comforting after and ignore his speech? How many foolishly have their ego kick in "Hah! They can't do that to me! My mind is a steel fortress for absolutely no reason!"
Many don't have the attention span for this. Many flee at the moment a dismissive article claiming to debunk it gives them a life line out of the truth, back into the world of ignorance. Through fallacies. Billions of dollars have been spent on exploiting human psychology and manipulating how mass groups of people think & act. Some things are extremely subtle so, what chance do these people have?
They could go to do a variety of surface level methods to improve their social and communication skills but if they continue to use Facebook in a time period where they are still effing with their users minds... their efforts won't go very far for improvement, if anywhere at all. "I know! I'll talk to more of my friends... on snapchat... on facebook" Derp.

When the amount of people doing this grew, more people got sucked in, repetition reinforced the programming then you have the bandwagon effect and the normalization of new social trends.

"Interaction with others is how the species became "dominant" and how we further advances in all fields"
You're right however connection and unity isn't encouraged by society. Nearly everything you see promoted by Facebook, youtube / google, other media organizations virtually all forms of
prevalent media is there to create and install beliefs of division. Divide. An unfathomable amount of psychological exploits coupled with commands have dug their way down to the deepest aspects of human psychology, in those who frequently use the internet. Encouraging, positive messages about unity... partnerships, the formation of masterminds groups are out of sight, therefore out of mind. Typically when they do surface in sight through popular avenues that's to install traps. "Oh look, our group effort is working!" some time later "Oh no, it all ended in tragedy / betrayl / division / failure" whatever.

With that being said, today there are many who realize it but they don't know how to change it. And while it is an important skill there are many dealing with bigger problems.

Apologies reply was longer than i intended lol you don't have to respond if you don't want

Okay, yeah, this is the sheep mentality thing. That is the kind of stuff that bugs me. People ask for my opinion on stuff and I don't have one, why? I haven't looked into/heard about it, so I can't have an opinion on what I don't know, but if I have an opinion, I have gone looking, digging, hunting so I typically have a better idea of what I am talking about. What gets really frustrating is when people try "arguing" someone with more knowledge on a subject with a point that can easily be tracked down and proven false. I know I am guilty of this sometimes because I know so many things that it gets jumbled or I misrecall, but I own up to it, others go "no, you are lying I am right cause this article." It is comparable to how people argue about the vaccines that gave kids Autism even though it has since been WAY proven that, not only is it false what the claim was, but that the man made it all up and it has been revealed that he was a fraud. I will never really understand humans, about that. They are too comfortable with their "let others think for me and I follow the crowd" instead of using their brain.

That actually raises a point that I am curious about, I (as an Aspie) have mimicked behaviors (not all good ones) so I fall prey to such things from time to time, even if I truly know that the thing isn't the case. Do you also find such flaws in your learned behaviors, or have seen it in others?

 

[Akemi]

That is curious. No Aspies wanted to talk about climate change?

I went to an Aspie group. Filled with brilliant people! And yet, it was either no talk or a special interest that would get totally out of control.

One man I listened to could tell you the day of the week you were born, your mom, your dad, your uncle, aunt, teacher, the president, the VP, the group leader, Bob, joe, Sally, his GF, his mom and dad, brother and two sisters............

That is what makes us Aspie. We do NOT get that smooth give and take, the "talk now, quiet now, listen now".

So I listened and let him talk for 45 minutes and I am glad I did. I made a cool friend. And once he saw I GOT IT, the next time he did not talk.....almost at all! So I connected and we are "friends" even though he does not talk anymore!

But I was honoured to be one he chose to show his gift to. I would NEVER EVER EVER try to tell him to back off or tone it down or presume to "teach him" how to communicate. It was a priceless gift.

If anything I should have begged him to show me how he did it. Of course, he can't because it's his gift, but OPs friend cannot "teach her" how to communicate NT, either.

I want to firstly start this by pointing out that I am not trying to come off as rude, or attack you, or anything negative, and will read over my message to the best of my ability to make sure that I haven't.

There is a difference between teaching and implementing, as my friend and I found out. I have the ability to learn everything that he is teaching me, I can understand it, talk to him about it, but boots to the dirt doesn't not compute. That is where I think a lot of people get confused. Just because you have (and I am roughly quoting my friend here) the knowledge doesn't mean you act on it, and even if you act without the knowledge it is pretty much the same. The "battle" then became learning how to more or less adapt ourselves to the other (which as most of you who read this will know, is almost impossible for an Aspie, especially if you are looking for speed, which is why I am glad that my friend is a very patient man) in order to properly communicate within the boundaries of what was given. He isn't trying to "change" me or make me conform to anything, all his efforts have been to keep me from being hurt by others and to improve my chances at getting a better life for myself. He is more than fine with my ramblings (and within our normal friendship boundaries) will even tell me to not stop, urges me on, and tells me to not hold back. His ability to handle that currently, however, isn't there due to the fact that he overloaded himself by trying so hard to help me, so he has placed temporary restrictions. The restrictions are so he has a buffer zone for the time being as he recovers and we come to terms with how things have to evolve to continue the friendship. Does this help you understand any?

 

[tducey]

Find out what the person is interested in and converse about that.

 

[Autistamatic]

Interesting thread so far.
The difficulties you describe are very common but I think the relevant solutions have already been suggested.
The middle ground you are seeking lies between "nice weather today" and "this is my life story and why I think I feel X". Subjects which are not about yourself, but what you are interested in, or showing interest in someone else's passions. e.g. I'm not interested in sport, but I'll listen to people talk about it as long as they show interest in my pet subjects.
Getting past the fear of being rejected/losing your friend is also going to be an important part of moving forward. However much you value them your own self worth is important too. Friends can come and go which is hard to accept when you don't make friends easily, but letting go just a little bit can actually strengthen a friendship.

The "knowing Vs implementing" dilemma is again not rare amongst us. Difficulties with both breaking routines/habits and executive function can cause us to be slow to incorporate new ideas or fall back into established behaviours.
The only ways I know to overcome this are first remembering your motivation - what it is you are trying to achieve or what is at stake. Secondly is reminding yourself what you have learned. Symbols can be useful for this or little items you can carry around - a pebble in your pocket, a piece of red twine tied around your wrist or a particular piece of jewellery. I know someone who asked me to put together a simple graphic, listing things they need to be mindful of, which they use as the lock screen on their phone. They say it helps keep them on track by reminding them every time they unlock their phone.
You may want to look into cognitive behaviour therapy (CBT) which many autistic people find useful. You can see a therapist about it but there are plenty of books and online resources to help you understand it and use it on your own. It's not for everyone but you may find it useful

 

[Akemi]

Find out what the person is interested in and converse about that.

That is a good tip, and I will continue to implement that. I think he also wants me to be comfortable starting conversations, and/or talking about things that happen in my life that I may find pointless, but might be good to talk about (outside of my normal school conversation).

 

[Akemi]

Interesting thread so far.
The difficulties you describe are very common but I think the relevant solutions have already been suggested.
The middle ground you are seeking lies between "nice weather today" and "this is my life story and why I think I feel X". Subjects which are not about yourself, but what you are interested in, or showing interest in someone else's passions. e.g. I'm not interested in sport, but I'll listen to people talk about it as long as they show interest in my pet subjects.
Getting past the fear of being rejected/losing your friend is also going to be an important part of moving forward. However much you value them your own self worth is important too. Friends can come and go which is hard to accept when you don't make friends easily, but letting go just a little bit can actually strengthen a friendship.

The "knowing Vs implementing" dilemma is again not rare amongst us. Difficulties with both breaking routines/habits and executive function can cause us to be slow to incorporate new ideas or fall back into established behaviours.
The only ways I know to overcome this are first remembering your motivation - what it is you are trying to achieve or what is at stake. Secondly is reminding yourself what you have learned. Symbols can be useful for this or little items you can carry around - a pebble in your pocket, a piece of red twine tied around your wrist or a particular piece of jewellery. I know someone who asked me to put together a simple graphic, listing things they need to be mindful of, which they use as the lock screen on their phone. They say it helps keep them on track by reminding them every time they unlock their phone.
You may want to look into cognitive behaviour therapy (CBT) which many autistic people find useful. You can see a therapist about it but there are plenty of books and online resources to help you understand it and use it on your own. It's not for everyone but you may find it useful

I appreciate your feedback on all this and am glad to know that collectively we are all on the right track. I very much appreciate the suggestions and I guess that would make sense as to why I gain strength from looking at a picture of a potent memory between my friend and I (the CBT) and I will look at more ways to make that effective in my day to day life. As to therapy, I am in it whenever classes are in session. It has proven quite helpful, which is why I continue to seek it out.

 

[Fino]

That is a good tip, and I will continue to implement that. I think he also wants me to be comfortable starting conversations, and/or talking about things that happen in my life that I may find pointless, but might be good to talk about (outside of my normal school conversation).

This is the exact thing someone told me about recently! And the whole thread is now starting to feel relateable! I didn't quite understand exactly what it was about at first, but I think I'm understanding somewhat now. Especially the part about sharing pointless information that people want to hear for some reason.

When it's "things you're not allowed to talk about," does that refer to things like religion, politics, sex, etc. or is it more personal stuff? Sorry if this was explained somewhere around here..

 

[Akemi]

This is the exact thing someone told me about recently! And the whole thread is now starting to feel relateable! I didn't quite understand exactly what it was about at first, but I think I'm understanding somewhat now. Especially the part about sharing pointless information that people want to hear for some reason.

When it's "things you're not allowed to talk about," does that refer to things like religion, politics, sex, etc. or is it more personal stuff? Sorry if this was explained somewhere around here..

No worries ^^ I understand needing to have things clarified. Mostly what my friend wants to avoid are "pleasantries" (despite that it is something that I and others actually ask out of wanting to know) such as "how are you" "did you sleep well" "how was work/school" as they are things that I ask/say a lot and they pull the conversation out of the "we are all relaxing" type atmosphere and can make it seem like I am overly worried, don't trust him, or am not very interested in what is occurring. (that isn't always the case and he knows how I mean it, but at the moment he wants me to understand other things that are acceptable to talk about so I am not limited to such a tiny script). He also wants me to avoid being overly emotional/sentimental (this is related to the fact that i over apologize, so it can take away the true meaning and value for when I apologize about more serious topics, saying thanks too often for similar reasoning) so that I don't drown himself (and myself as I get swept away in it all easily) in such things so that light hearted and good natured fun is more accessible for me.

Essentially, he wants me to talk about more often (I am actually doing the whole "gets lost on YT" things for this) mundane things that happen. For instance when my cat does something cute, or if I find a video that makes me laugh, or share a clip from a show that is funny, or a joke from a game, that kind of thing, that I normally say "but I don't think you would be interested." The other night, I actually opened with "I have a story you may find cute, and something that I find amusing, if you are interested in hearing it" that showed him not only that I was trying, but took out the doubt that he would care what I had to say, leaving it more open to him to decide if it was something he had time for and therefore (when he accepted) I was shown he cared and truly wanted to talk to me and enjoy my presence and company.

Feel free to ask for any clarification if any of that confused you, I do not mind spending time explaining, but will always make sure to let you know if I need to sleep before I respond so that you understand what is going on as well.

 

[Mia]

He understands me and accepts me, but my fear has left me worried about what I could do/say to make sure he was happy or would keep me around. The sudden stepping back he has done has triggered my anxiety and depression hard. Times like these I never sleep well, I get physically ill from the stress, and I can't stop thinking about what I can do to fix it.

So, it seems that he may think you are too needy. That you are supposed to stop being yourself, so that he will remain your friend. That you feel the need to keep him happy so that you can remain in the friendship. One in which he is at all times in control and advises you on how to act, be, interact.

This seems controlling on his part, far too dictatorial within the friendship. No person, especially someone you consider a friend should be defining the friendship in this way, and then distancing themselves in punishment when you don't act the way they want you to.

I would thank him for listening, for being there as a friend but I would not fall into this trap of manipulation. Then I would put some distance between and the friend for awhile, to develop other friendships with people who respect me for who I am. I would try to find other people who I can talk to, and be myself with.

 

[Akemi]

So, it seems that he may think you are too needy. That you are supposed to stop being yourself, so that he will remain your friend. That you feel the need to keep him happy so that you can remain in the friendship. One in which he is at all times in control and advises you on how to act, be, interact.

This seems controlling on his part, far too dictatorial within the friendship. No person, especially someone you consider a friend should be defining the friendship in this way, and then distancing themselves in punishment when you don't act the way they want you to.

I would thank him for listening, for being there as a friend but I would not fall into this trap of manipulation. Then I would put some distance between and the friend for awhile, to develop other friendships with people who respect me for who I am. I would try to find other people who I can talk to, and be myself with.

That is something I have also considered, as I am weary of being manipulated, but considering he only backs off when he has had too much, himself, and sets boundaries that he lifts after he has "recovered," I don't think that is the problem. More often than not he allows me to act how I want, but encourages me to not hold back on things that I normally do around others (I have habits that get me teased a lot, but he enjoys being able to see/hear me as just me). The only time he tries to "control" me is if he is taking his own breathing space. Times like these aren't often, but this is the first time I have been confused by some of the boundaries, which through discussing it in this thread I have come to better understand, and he is feeling more comfortable around me.

He has been instigating conversations more, so I believe it was him just setting up boundaries, as we all need to at some point, so that he could adjust to the situation that had changed, as he wasn't quite sure what to do and needed to sort out his thoughts. He typically is a lot faster about things like this, but I usually get a better grasp on things about this kinda of time faster, as well. I know his biggest concern is getting weighed down by my emotions while he is in a fragile time himself. I think it was just the wording and sudden timing that had me so confused.

 

[Theta.G]

While I know that you think it is the case, I actually have learned a lot from him. The difference in


Okay, yeah, this is the sheep mentality thing. That is the kind of stuff that bugs me. People ask for my opinion on stuff and I don't have one, why? I haven't looked into/heard about it, so I can't have an opinion on what I don't know, but if I have an opinion, I have gone looking, digging, hunting so I typically have a better idea of what I am talking about. What gets really frustrating is when people try "arguing" someone with more knowledge on a subject with a point that can easily be tracked down and proven false. I know I am guilty of this sometimes because I know so many things that it gets jumbled or I misrecall, but I own up to it, others go "no, you are lying I am right cause this article." It is comparable to how people argue about the vaccines that gave kids Autism even though it has since been WAY proven that, not only is it false what the claim was, but that the man made it all up and it has been revealed that he was a fraud. I will never really understand humans, about that. They are too comfortable with their "let others think for me and I follow the crowd" instead of using their brain.

That actually raises a point that I am curious about, I (as an Aspie) have mimicked behaviors (not all good ones) so I fall prey to such things from time to time, even if I truly know that the thing isn't the case. Do you also find such flaws in your learned behaviors, or have seen it in others?

Amen to that. It use to be so bad in the past that people would demand sources for every little thing you say... looking for that authority figure they think they can trust. If you didn't they would think it's not true. And it's just like "ok well in order to understand this source, here are 15 others that are prerequisite. Oh and here's 10 other relevant pieces of information relating to the validity of the source and all of those involved"
"(meh. i'm not reading all that).... I don't see FDA anywhere so it's not true!".
It's a massive waste of your time really. If they don't have the logical reasoning skills to understand it (even in a general sense) then no amount of sources provided will fix that for them.

I can't say much about the vaccine debate. Haven't studied it because even if one did find the concrete answers it's not like it would change anything. There is a commonality in many things though. And that's people who think they've found definitive answers. That's generally how it goes with this type of subject matter. For example someone i met recently was... i guess you could say... in the middle stages of conspiracy research. Digging into irrelevant things. When i brought up the pharmaceutical industry, drugs impact on society. He dropped the whole "But they did a double blind study. There are no flaws with the double blind study it is impossible. Drugs are good for you. Everything is a drug. Everything is chemical."
...
completely ignoring factors outside of his awareness. Completely ignoring the many ways double blinds and all other studies are still being manipulated. Only paying attention to the double blind study and the ways it's conducted as published by those who run it. (The fox guarding the hen house)

That actually raises a point that I am curious about, I (as an Aspie) have mimicked behaviors (not all good ones) so I fall prey to such things from time to time, even if I truly know that the thing isn't the case. Do you also find such flaws in your learned behaviors, or have seen it in others?
Everyone is susceptible to this because we are partially programmed by our environment. If you live with several rich and successful people your going to pick up some of their habits, views, mannerisms or beliefs. Ways of living. Both perceptually good and bad. Likewise you will also influence them to some extent. They'll adopt and embody parts of you / your traits.

 

[Akemi]

Amen to that. It use to be so bad in the past that people would demand sources for every little thing you say... looking for that authority figure they think they can trust. If you didn't they would think it's not true. And it's just like "ok well in order to understand this source, here are 15 others that are prerequisite. Oh and here's 10 other relevant pieces of information relating to the validity of the source and all of those involved"
"(meh. i'm not reading all that).... I don't see FDA anywhere so it's not true!".
It's a massive waste of your time really. If they don't have the logical reasoning skills to understand it (even in a general sense) then no amount of sources provided will fix that for them.

I can't say much about the vaccine debate. Haven't studied it because even if one did find the concrete answers it's not like it would change anything. There is a commonality in many things though. And that's people who think they've found definitive answers. That's generally how it goes with this type of subject matter. For example someone i met recently was... i guess you could say... in the middle stages of conspiracy research. Digging into irrelevant things. When i brought up the pharmaceutical industry, drugs impact on society. He dropped the whole "But they did a double blind study. There are no flaws with the double blind study it is impossible. Drugs are good for you. Everything is a drug. Everything is chemical."
...
completely ignoring factors outside of his awareness. Completely ignoring the many ways double blinds and all other studies are still being manipulated. Only paying attention to the double blind study and the ways it's conducted as published by those who run it. (The fox guarding the hen house)

That actually raises a point that I am curious about, I (as an Aspie) have mimicked behaviors (not all good ones) so I fall prey to such things from time to time, even if I truly know that the thing isn't the case. Do you also find such flaws in your learned behaviors, or have seen it in others?
Everyone is susceptible to this because we are partially programmed by our environment. If you live with several rich and successful people your going to pick up some of their habits, views, mannerisms or beliefs. Ways of living. Both perceptually good and bad. Likewise you will also influence them to some extent. They'll adopt and embody parts of you / your traits.

That all makes sense. I guess I really do overly worry about all of these things. Thank you for bringing it all to light and helping me understand more.

 

[Mia]

More often than not he allows me to act how I want, but encourages me to not hold back on things that I normally do around others (I have habits that get me teased a lot, but he enjoys being able to see/hear me as just me). The only time he tries to "control" me is if he is taking his own breathing space. Times like these aren't often, but this is the first time I have been confused by some of the boundaries, which through discussing it in this thread I have come to better understand, and he is feeling more comfortable around me.

I still see this as controlling your behaviour. The statement "He allows me to act how I want" is telling. You don't need your friends permission to be who you are.

"I have been confused by some of the boundaries," Have you set any of your own boundaries? As this seems rather one-sided, this teacher-student style friendship. It's all very well that he seems to have your best interests in mind. Yet you should ask yourself if this is something you have decided or something that's been decided for you, without a decision on your part. In fact, this sounds quite a bit like grooming.

No one should make someone over, into their own image of what they think they should be. That decision rests with the individual. Many people go though stages in their lives, where they might enjoy pop music, certain games, silliness, makeup, dancing, fashion, clubbing, certain types of books. It's all a learning process and for some a way to enjoy life. There's nothing inherently 'evil' or superficial in that. There is no fault in making your way through life, and deciding things that you want or do not want.

People close to you like friends, who are similar in age have many of the same concerns. I understand that putting boundaries in place is helpful for some, in some situations. And that you friend's boundaries are necessary to him. Yet boundaries are about protecting a person from outside influences, that they find difficult to process. Those boundaries that you mention, that are put in place and removed when you act accordingly are about behavior modification, rather than solid boundaries. Something you seriously need to consider.

 

[Akemi]

I still see this as controlling your behaviour. The statement "He allows me to act how I want" is telling. You don't need your friends permission to be who you are.

"I have been confused by some of the boundaries," Have you set any of your own boundaries? As this seems rather one-sided, this teacher-student style friendship. It's all very well that he seems to have your best interests in mind. Yet you should ask yourself if this is something you have decided or something that's been decided for you, without a decision on your part. In fact, this sounds quite a bit like grooming.

No one should make someone over, into their own image of what they think they should be. That decision rests with the individual. Many people go though stages in their lives, where they might enjoy pop music, certain games, silliness, makeup, dancing, fashion, clubbing, certain types of books. It's all a learning process and for some a way to enjoy life. There's nothing inherently 'evil' or superficial in that. There is no fault in making your way through life, and deciding things that you want or do not want.

People close to you like friends, who are similar in age have many of the same concerns. I understand that putting boundaries in place is helpful for some, in some situations. And that you friend's boundaries are necessary to him. Yet boundaries are about protecting a person from outside influences, that they find difficult to process. Those boundaries that you mention, that are put in place and removed when you act accordingly are about behavior modification, rather than solid boundaries. Something you seriously need to consider.

My apologies for the late reply, my depression was acting up and I was pulling myself back together for conversing. That said, I appreciate your patience.

As to the "allowed to be myself thing" that is something he has gotten onto me for. He says I really need to 1) look up the definition because that isn't what it is; 2) stop thinking that I need permission for everything from everyone ESPECIALLY being myself, and 3) that he doesn't "allow" me but more accepts me for who I am and I take it as allowing because I have felt the need to hide who I am my whole life.

He also tells me to make sure to make and guard my own boundaries, so I most certainly understand your point there, I just never feel a need to have them around him. I tell him no if I don't like something or freely request to do various things based on my mood and plans are made based on majority in the group or a compromise if it is just he and I.

As to how you describe his boundaries, I have considered that, but they are put up when he is overwhelmed and needs a break, not because of me specifically. When they are up I do pull back because I don't want to add to the stress he is under because it makes me feel like I am a bad friend for not respecting the space he needs, but he does the same for me when I need space. I don't need it as often, but if I do tell him I need time to process or calm down (whatever) he also backs off. Just like when I take space in arguments in that sense, he needs space and places boundaries so I know he needs it because otherwise I don't notice. I can see how my wording has misconstrued that, but it isn't the case at all.

 

[Mia]

As to how you describe his boundaries, I have considered that, but they are put up when he is overwhelmed and needs a break, not because of me specifically. When they are up I do pull back because I don't want to add to the stress he is under because it makes me feel like I am a bad friend for not respecting the space he needs, but he does the same for me when I need space. I don't need it as often, but if I do tell him I need time to process or calm down (whatever) he also backs off. Just like when I take space in arguments in that sense, he needs space and places boundaries so I know he needs it because otherwise I don't notice. I can see how my wording has misconstrued that, but it isn't the case at all.

I'm glad to hear that Akemi. It sometimes takes me some time to respond as well. You seem like a good friend, quite intuitive to other people. I was concerned about the way it was worded, as I interpreted it as your not being on an equal footing with your friend. Yet you are indicating that is not the case. There is no need to defend yourself or your friendship. My concern was for you.

Many aspie males and females go into relationships in which they have no experience or preparation for, and are naive to a certain extent. We learn what we want or do not want, but our naivety is still evident in some interactions. Hence there is a tendency for us to be taken advantage of. This does not seem from your reply to be your situation. You don't seem naive in your interactions, my only suggestion now, is to pay attention to what people actually do rather than what they say.

 

[paloftoon]

Is there a way to consider meeting your friend in-person or maybe a phone call? If this friend is truly a best friend, this should be do-able in our day an age. You can prepare a bulleted list from your post here, and then express your concerns when speaking to him/her.

 

[Akemi]

I'm glad to hear that Akemi. It sometimes takes me some time to respond as well. You seem like a good friend, quite intuitive to other people. I was concerned about the way it was worded, as I interpreted it as your not being on an equal footing with your friend. Yet you are indicating that is not the case. There is no need to defend yourself or your friendship. My concern was for you.

Many aspie males and females go into relationships in which they have no experience or preparation for, and are naive to a certain extent. We learn what we want or do not want, but our naivety is still evident in some interactions. Hence there is a tendency for us to be taken advantage of. This does not seem from your reply to be your situation. You don't seem naive in your interactions, my only suggestion now, is to pay attention to what people actually do rather than what they say.

I understand and am grateful for the help and your concern, as it is frequently mine, his, and honestly I have heard a lot over the year about concern for me so it is nice that the right people are finally coming into my life. I just need to learn more about how to communicate and word better to ease everyone's concerns and make my life a lot better (as well as easier to understand).

 

[Akemi]

Is there a way to consider meeting your friend in-person or maybe a phone call? If this friend is truly a best friend, this should be do-able in our day an age. You can prepare a bulleted list from your post here, and then express your concerns when speaking to him/her.

In person is impossible, not because of them alone, but because we live in separate countries on different continents, and we both agree that meeting in person is something that we are not willing to do (reclusive people win it all yay!). As for calls, typically we would talk in text daily, and/or in call, but since this incident he has had to step back quite far and there has been no chance of that to happen, but I am hopeful that it will get better once he manages to figure out what he wants to do or where to go. I do hope to explain these concerns if we ever get back on track, but I do know that it is possible that he may have reached his limit and I have lost him. I try to focus on the fact that he could come back, instead of the fact he could be gone forever because otherwise when he comes back I won't be ready and will not have grown or improved anywhere that I was working on and it will only cause a similar situation again.

 

[paloftoon]

. . .As for calls, typically we would talk in text daily, and/or in call, but since this incident he has had to step back quite far and there has been no chance of that to happen, but I am hopeful that it will get better once he manages to figure out what he wants to do or where to go. I do hope to explain these concerns if we ever get back on track, but I do know that it is possible that he may have reached his limit and I have lost him. I try to focus on the fact that he could come back, instead of the fact he could be gone forever because otherwise when he comes back I won't be ready and will not have grown or improved anywhere that I was working on and it will only cause a similar situation again.

If both of you have smart phones, Whatsapp is free. It can be tricky, but it's possible to do International calls through there for free.
It sounds like you have nothing to lose. So, I say go for it. If you don't get a response in a week, leave your door open and move on and find other friends.