Unsure Of Proper Social Responses

[Judge]

Yes, that was it. I couldn't think of what it was called, but I recognize the name. Thanks for the explanation.

I was on Cobra coverage for a few years after I freely chose to quit my insurance career.

If you communicated to your former employer that you definitely decided not to come back, I'd think this does not constitute termination for cause. Besides, it involves more paperwork and a bit of liability on the part of your former employer to terminate any employee for any reason. It would be to their most basic advantage to document you as one who chose to quit.

My advice is to stick with your own understanding of the incidents that led up to you opting to quit your job as a personal choice under the circumstances involved.

 

[Shamar]

What you got in the mail was probably advising you of being able to get COBRA health insurance benefits; the right to continue your group health insurance (as long as you pay for it) for 18 months (time frame may be different) after your termination. Termination just means you are no longer working with the company, not that you have been fired.

I apologize in advance, but I can't help it. COBRA. Is that something to support the breasts of Siamese twins? This may belong in the Dad Jokes thread)

 

[grommet]

There have been so many confusing Social encounters. What are the proper responses? In some cases, I have no idea what offended someone. Like when I simply stopped so someone could finish adjusting something on their cart. Suddenly they start screaming at me and telling me to go ahead and cuss at them. I had not even felt irritated much less wanted to cuss at them and had actually been glad for a chance to take a brief break from pulling heavy carts and such. Another time when someone's cart collapsed, I started helping them pick up the boxes. All of a sudden, the people around me are laughing at me and saying that I slipped up. I thought we were supposed to help each other. How was I slipping up? Other times, I realize that my response was not what would be considered normal but don't really know what would have been the proper response. Some examples - getting hit in the head with a ball, getting slapped, and having eggs thrown and busted all over my department so I would have to clean it up. I responded to all these by laughing and people were angry at me for laughing, but while I am aware that my response is abnormal in these kinds of situations, what is the socially acceptable response to being hit with something or having your work area ransacked ?

I have been thinking about this since you posted. It made me feel too much to write back. This is what it is like for me too. People being bad at me and I have no idea why. I do not know what I did. Or people playing tricks on me and I do not know it, I do not suspect ill will and react literally.

When you talked about a card I do not know if you meant a grocery cart but if so it is like a situation I had. I have talked about it here before. I was coming down the ramp inside a Trader Joe's grocery store. At the bottom of the ramp an employee was stocking something and I could not get past them. So I waited on the ramp. I did not say or do anything. I am autistic, I thought logically. I cannot pass, I must wait. So I waited. After a bit she noticed me and became very angry. She accused me of so many things. She told me I had toxic anger. She got mad at me loudly so the other employees could hear her. She asked another employee if they had sage so she could purity the air of of the anger.

I do not speak, I had said nothing. I had not made a facial expression, I had made no gestures or sighs. I just waited. It was awful. The nightmare thing I am afraid of, doing my best and still getting into trouble. I cannot do less than nothing.

Another time an employee at a store came to me speaking quietly and kindly to tell me the store manager was being rude to me. I did not know that. I listened literally to what the manager said to me and did not see a problem. The other person was so gentle trying to help me and explain.

It made me sad hearing about you and eggs and your area being ransacked. Being hit with a ball.

 

[Hypnalis]

@FayetheAspie @grommet

Not knowing all the appropriate social responses to some extent is "ASD-normal".

There are a lot of separate cases, and everyone else (NTs) started learning them at about the same time as they were learning to speak.

Remember cases that turned out strangely, and find out what to do.
Note that bullying is something else - don't mix errors in "NT-normal" behavior and bullying.

You both described incidents where you waited for someone without informing them you were there. This counts as "creepy" behavior. Different people have different responses to that, rarely 100% rational, and the specific response will depend on whether they were already stressed (Fay's example) or working (grommet's). Either way it's better to avoid giving that impression.

Where I live (different language, but I think it's the same in most English-speaking countries):
* If you're blocked, you say "excuse me" calmly, politely, and at normal volume. They will either ask you to wait a few seconds (perhaps to finish something) or immediately let you past.
Annoyance in your tone of voice counts as rudeness, and they may not be as polite or as accommodating.
* If you want to help, you ask. "Can I help you with that?" works well, but any similar polite formulation that's semantically equivalent is also ok. Again, tone is important.

The reason tone matters (and should be trained if you have issues managing it) is that exactly the same words in the wrong tone are regularly used (e.g. by "Karens/Kens") in a passive aggressive way.
Every NT listens for (and reads for /lol) that kind of thing continuously, and many will react negatively ... which changes the "rules".
The protocols for being on either side of a snarky conversation are different, and more complicated than simple politeness.

Bullying is more complicated again, and depends on context. In general I wouldn't trust online advice anywhere on how to deal with it. It's very situational, so there's no general method for dealing with it.

Note that bullying is not "NT-normal", but avoiding conflict is.
Bullies select their targets, and carefully select the places the times and places they apply their methods.

 

[grommet]

@FayetheAspie @grommet

Not knowing all the appropriate social responses to some extent is "ASD-normal".

There are a lot of separate cases, and everyone else (NTs) started learning them at about the same time as they were learning to speak.

Remember cases that turned out strangely, and find out what to do.
Note that bullying is something else - don't mix errors in "NT-normal" behavior and bullying.

You both described incidents where you waited for someone without informing them you were there. This counts as "creepy" behavior. Different people have different responses to that, rarely 100% rational, and the specific response will depend on whether they were already stressed (Fay's example) or working (grommet's). Either way it's better to avoid giving that impression.

Where I live (different language, but I think it's the same in most English-speaking countries):
* If you're blocked, you say "excuse me" calmly, politely, and at normal volume. They will either ask you to wait a few seconds (perhaps to finish something) or immediately let you past.
Annoyance in your tone of voice counts as rudeness, and they may not be as polite or as accommodating.
* If you want to help, you ask. "Can I help you with that?" works well, but any similar polite formulation that's semantically equivalent is also ok. Again, tone is important.

The reason tone matters (and should be trained if you have issues managing it) is that exactly the same words in the wrong tone are regularly used (e.g. by "Karens/Kens") in a passive aggressive way.
Every NT listens for (and reads for /lol) that kind of thing continuously, and many will react negatively ... which changes the "rules".
The protocols for being on either side of a snarky conversation are different, and more complicated than simple politeness.

Bullying is more complicated again, and depends on context. In general I wouldn't trust online advice anywhere on how to deal with it. It's very situational, so there's no general method for dealing with it.

Note that bullying is not "NT-normal", but avoiding conflict is.
Bullies select their targets, and carefully select the places the times and places they apply their methods.

I appreciate you trying to explain and help me. I understand it is their NT way but if someone is in my way so I cannot pass them, I will wait for them. That feels right to me. I do not speak so I cannot say something to tell them I am there. I must wait for them to notice me or move. This can create a misunderstanding but it is what I have to do. I cannot think of another way to handle it.

NT's seem very sensitive to things I cannot see. I have been told to do things, like make a noise or tap someone but people have gotten mad at that too. I have been yelled at, told I needed to be louder or "How else do I know you are there?" But I have been louder and people yelled at me for startling them, being too loud. Touching people is risky, I do not know what they might think but when I have done it and then done it again several times because they did not notice me, they then told me to "Just say something!" I do not speak and now they are upset and I cannot explain anything to them.

To me, my way is simplest and logical. If I cannot pass, I must wait, so I wait. I still get in trouble but it is the best idea I have. I wonder what their world is like. I will never see or understand it. What do they see, or hear? There are complexities that let them communicate to each other but I have no idea about them.

In my in-person autism meetings people could say, "No." and the other person ended their question or request. No one ever got mad. Sometimes someone would be asked if they were going with the group after the meeting to eat. "No." The person would not be upset. Understand the question was answered and move on. I liked that every much.

People would say a noise or smell or something else bothered them. People would say, "Okay." No one would try to tell the person they should not feel that way or have that problem. Things were clear and to me felt logical and respectful.

But in the NT world there is a whole language and culture that means so much to them. It is like a dictionary I cannot see or read but they know it perfectly. So my waiting causes problems in their world but it is not only their world. I have rights too. Fewer autistic people exist and we think differently than they do and we are as right as they are.

I can talk to autistic people. I cannot manage well with NT's. It is a big problem so I stay to myself as much as possible. Even a look in their direction can make them think they should punch you. I cannot imagine that ever happening with an autistic person.

I am making this too long but I have so many examples. I once had to talk to a doctor who was officer of the day at the clinic. I needed refill but my doctor was not there. The doctor asked if I had an appointment with my doctor scheduled. I said I did. He asked when. I said it is on my computer at home, I do not know. He kept talking to me and kept asking if I had an appointment.

I was badly confused. I told him he had asked me and I had answered, saying yes I did. He asked when it was. This was very bad for me then. I told him he had asked that and I had said it was on my computer at home, I did not know. Why is he still asking. It went on and on. I do not understand them. It think they must operate on subtext and I do not use that.

If an autistic person asked those questions and I gave those answers, they would not ask again, it would make no sense. They had gotten all the information they needed to understand the situation.

I cannot move to a country where everyone has autism and there are mostly NT people so I am stuck having problems even when I do my best. They get mad so much. Sorry I made this too long.

 

[Hypnalis]

@grommet

I understand your difficulties, but you need to recognize that the avoidant path you've chosen will frequently get you classified as "creepy".

It's a valid adult choice to only interact in a "non-NT-compatible" way. But the downsides are probably greater than you think.

I won't try to change your mind, and I've long given up trying to teach reluctant students, but FWIW I made the other choice long ago, and it's made my "life among the NT's" much easier.

 

[grommet]

@grommet

I understand your difficulties, but you need to recognize that the avoidant path you've chosen will frequently get you classified as "creepy".

It's a valid adult choice to only interact in a "non-NT-compatible" way. But the downsides are probably greater than you think.

I won't try to change your mind, and I've long given up trying to teach reluctant students, but FWIW I made the other choice long ago, and it's made my "life among the NT's" much easier.

I am not your student.