Update!: Confused NT not wanting to dig a bigger hole

[Timo_WA]

The intimacy is scary. For example I have issues imagining feelings. I do not know If I want to do something in the future if I have not tried it out before. So I have to do it to find out if I Like it. So I might look forward to trying it Out and then when I finally do it I might freak out because it turns out to fill me with fear....
It's hard to tell what his underlying fear is. Everyone is different. For me there are many layers of fear that I feel when I get close to somebody...

And yes, I initiate. I am a strong initiator. In the beginning of my last relationship my boyfriend was only allowed to touch me when I initiated by touching him. And even then I sometimes freaked out and had him stop as it got overwhelming and we had to stop completely with the touching (for some time).
You reciprocating might also be too much if he feels that you are copying him. That makes your behaviour dependant on him. Perhaps it would help if you just did what you like...without him...

Ahhh, that's really good insight. He has always warned about being too close, so I always let him lead, but i can see how that gets exhausting in it's own way because then you're always the one taking the risk. Honestly, have you seen those cat obstacle challenges? That's how I feel....except i'm mostly the dog...

 

[PinkPhilodendron]

Ahhh, that's really good insight. He has always warned about being too close, so I always let him lead, but i can see how that gets exhausting in it's own way because then you're always the one taking the risk. Honestly, have you seen those cat obstacle challenges? That's how I feel....except i'm mostly the dog...

I do not understand what you mean by risk. What would he risk by taking the lead?
Do you like feeling like the dog in those cat obstacles? Why are you still pursuing him? What is he giving you that makes you feel good and loved and happy?

 

[Timo_WA]

I do not understand what you mean by risk. What would he risk by taking the lead?
Do you like feeling like the dog in those cat obstacles? Why are you still pursuing him? What is he giving you that makes you feel good and loved and happy?

The risk is that when you take a step forward, someone doesn't meet you there. You risk rejection. For example if we had never hugged before, and he asks for a hug, he is the one who had to put himself out there and I get to decide if I want to or not, and if I am always waiting for him to make those steps forward, then I am always in a position of safety while he is in a position of risk. If I always get to be the person who meets the person who took the step, I never risk the rejection myself, you see?

I was just making a joke about the dog, as I sort of stumble through learning about everything. I don't mind it because I am learning, and even if this learning isn't to help with my friendship with him, it will help me be more aware of what other people might be going through in general. So it's ok for me. No one gets to be the cat when they are learning, if that makes sense.

Up until the withdrawal last week, he was a really good friend. Just generally fun to talk to, interesting, super smart, had a lot to say and teach, and I always felt good and happy with our conversations. We got along great, same sense of humor, a lot of overlapping interests. Just a generally good foundation for a cool friend. I am not seeking love and he isn't my only friend, so I don't need any one thing in particular from him, I just liked having him around. So I guess I pursue him because I miss my friend.

 

[PinkPhilodendron]

The risk is that when you take a step forward, someone doesn't meet you there. You risk rejection. For example if we had never hugged before, and he asks for a hug, he is the one who had to put himself out there and I get to decide if I want to or not, and if I am always waiting for him to make those steps forward, then I am always in a position of safety while he is in a position of risk. If I always get to be the person who meets the person who took the step, I never risk the rejection myself, you see?

I was just making a joke about the dog, as I sort of stumble through learning about everything. I don't mind it because I am learning, and even if this learning isn't to help with my friendship with him, it will help me be more aware of what other people might be going through in general. So it's ok for me. No one gets to be the cat when they are learning, if that makes sense.

Up until the withdrawal last week, he was a really good friend. Just generally fun to talk to, interesting, super smart, had a lot to say and teach, and I always felt good and happy with our conversations. We got along great, same sense of humor, a lot of overlapping interests. Just a generally good foundation for a cool friend. I am not seeking love and he isn't my only friend, so I don't need any one thing in particular from him, I just liked having him around. So I guess I pursue him because I miss my friend.

OK....but I don't think he fears that kind of rejection. At least I can't imagine it. He never said that too I thought? He mentioned too much closeness. Not fear of you rejecting him.
I did not realize the existence of that kind of risk when being with a friend. If I know they like me I will not fear rejection. I will believe they like me...

 

[Timo_WA]

OK....but I don't think he fears that kind of rejection. At least I can't imagine it. He never said that too I thought? He mentioned too much closeness. Not fear of you rejecting him.
I did not realize the existence of that kind of risk when being with a friend. If I know they like me I will not fear rejection. I will believe they like me...

That's pretty fantastic, actually! Being secure if your friendships is a really great place to be. Most people fear the rejection, no matter how small, and it's a big source of anxiety in every kind of relationship, even in friendships. It's why people tend to not be completely open and not say what they feel, even in close relationships. And it's not just with physical touch, but with vulnerability in general.

He is absolutely afraid of rejection. At least that's what he has always said and I have no reason to not believe him. It wasn't listed as part of the explanation for the withdrawal (what little explanation there was). Even when he asks certain things, or want to tell me something he didn't like about himself, he prefaces it with the fact that he's terrified of my response even though I have never given a negative one. He also never really believes that anyone likes him. That is always a symptom of not liking yourself, unfortunately.

 

[Hypnalis]

I could explain a likely cause of your friend disengaging, but it's not really something an NT can fully understand, and it wouldn't help you decide what to do anyway.

Instead, a plan:

Tell your friend in your own words (but don't embellish it ... you want it as concise as possible).

1. You accept he did what he had to do, and you're not upset about it
2. You'd like to keep the door open for future contact
3. Your wish for further contact is unconditional - you don't expect, and won't ask for, explanations or excuses

All three points are essential.

The first two points are simple for an NT. The third, typically not. You have to say it, mean it, and never ask for an explanation.

Don't expect it to induce an immediate response.

If this seems useful but weird, you may ask questions - but re-read the first sentence a couple of times first.

 

[Timo_WA]

I could explain a likely cause of your friend disengaging, but it's not really something an NT can fully understand, and it wouldn't help you decide what to do anyway.

Instead, a plan:

Tell your friend in your own words (but don't embellish it ... you want it as concise as possible).

1. You accept he did what he had to do, and you're not upset about it
2. You'd like to keep the door open for future contact
3. Your wish for further contact is unconditional - you don't expect, and won't ask for, explanations or excuses

All three points are essential.

The first two points are simple for an NT. The third, typically not. You have to say it, mean it, and never ask for an explanation.

Don't expect it to induce an immediate response.

If this seems useful but weird, you may ask questions - but re-read the first sentence a couple of times first.

You are a wonderful human.

No, this is great, and I totally understand. I have actually already written it, and it's just sitting in my drafts for a point in time in the future that seems appropriate. I have been working on it for 2 days now, and you have me pegged-- I always start embellished and full of feelings (for my own processing more than anything else) and I never send that version. Each time I look at it, I feel those initial feelings dropping away anyway and I pare it down to just the basics.

I really am not looking for explanations. I did have my initial "wtf is happening, why? Please explain to me so I can sort this into a box that makes sense" moment a week ago, but now that I have chilled and had time to reflect, I honestly get that I don't get it and never will, and that's fine.

Thank you thank you!!! If it's not too much trouble, I'd still be interested in your explanation if you're willing to give it to me. Even when I don't fully understand something, i can still know it's true from someone else's perspective, and that helps. Helps me to avoid certain mistakes and assumptions in the future as well.

 

[Timo_WA]

I want to start off by saying THANK YOU! to everyone who took the time to reply to this and try to help me out. You have, tremendously. You all gave me some really good perspectives that will help me be a more understanding person in general. I want to give a special thanks to @Hypnalis for keeping my response in line with really specific instructions. Having the blueprint was great, but seeing the 3 things needed was an insight itself.

I finally reached out after I saw him make a post that seemed like he was nudging at me, so 'now or never!', I thought... And he responded immediately. He basically said that he is a mess and doesn't know how to figure himself out, so he doesn't know why he expected me to, and that he was really happy I reached out because he didn't know how to.

In my initial message I promised zero judgement, no questions, no need for an explanation, and no matter what he does or what he thinks he has done, he can always come back. And I have honored that. He tried to explain, but I told him he didn't have to and he was so relieved and everything is back to normal. If I am honest, I'd say even closer than before which I wasn't expecting at all. And there is now even a plan in place for if something like this happens again, he has a way of saying he's ready without ever having to reach out. Good outcomes all around. I think he might even believe me when I say I am not going anywhere now.

 

[Forest Cat]

I want to start off by saying THANK YOU! to everyone who took the time to reply to this and try to help me out. You have, tremendously. You all gave me some really good perspectives that will help me be a more understanding person in general. I want to give a special thanks to @Hypnalis for keeping my response in line with really specific instructions. Having the blueprint was great, but seeing the 3 things needed was an insight itself.

I finally reached out after I saw him make a post that seemed like he was nudging at me, so 'now or never!', I thought... And he responded immediately. He basically said that he is a mess and doesn't know how to figure himself out, so he doesn't know why he expected me to, and that he was really happy I reached out because he didn't know how to.

In my initial message I promised zero judgement, no questions, no need for an explanation, and no matter what he does or what he thinks he has done, he can always come back. And I have honored that. He tried to explain, but I told him he didn't have to and he was so relieved and everything is back to normal. If I am honest, I'd say even closer than before which I wasn't expecting at all. And there is now even a plan in place for if something like this happens again, he has a way of saying he's ready without ever having to reach out. Good outcomes all around. I think he might even believe me when I say I am not going anywhere now.

That worked out almost unbelievably good. It`s nice when things sometimes end well.