Venting. Pardoning and liking people who have done wrong to us

[Jordy]

“Holding accountable“ is very different than delving out punishments or withholding forgiveness in my view.

I guess it depends on what they did. Sometimes someone deserves to go on the eternal piece of **** list and you shouldn't ever forgive them.

 

[Rodafina]

I guess it depends on what they did. Sometimes someone deserves to go on the eternal piece of **** list and you shouldn't ever forgive them.

We may operate differently in this regard, but I definitely understand your point here.

 

[Misery]

Taking frustration out on other people because you had bad home situation is not okay and people who do that should be punished for it it's not acceptable or forgivable.

It's not okay for them to behave that way... but acceptable if you do it, because "they deserve it"? Based on what you've said so far, like "If at some point you are in the power to make their life worse you should" or whatever, that's what I'm hearing here. Many bullies do what they do for JUST that type of reason, you know. "They deserve it", they think, when going after their target. It goes through the minds of many. The reason for their target "deserving it" may be nonsensical and random, but still... it goes through their minds nonetheless.

That's what I mean by "sinking to their level". It's why I wont allow myself to do anything like that: Because I'd be thinking and acting as the bullies do, if I did any of that. And the only thing THAT does is spread even more negativity. You may think it has some useful effect, like "hah, THAT will teach them a lesson", but no, the "lesson" it usually teaches them is how to be EVEN MORE ENRAGED and even more awful the next time they go after someone. AKA, it makes their behavior even worse, and it makes their next victims suffer more. And their negative behavior will be outright MULTIPLIED if they decide to come after YOU next, because in their mind, now you are the source of pain... you're no longer just a random person. And you wont be a target of mere bullying at that point. You'll be a target of their revenge. I'll let you figure out which of those two is worse.

There's so many freaking reasons why it's wrong to act like that, I could do this for like 5 pages. But I like to think I've made my point by now.

As has been said already in this topic: It takes real strength of heart to show kindness in the face of darkness, or to at least just say "no more of this" and drop the blade and simply walk away rather than striking. But just throwing hate back at hate? Any weak-minded idiot can do THAT.

“Holding accountable“ is very different than delving out punishments or withholding forgiveness in my view.

Aye, that's a good way of putting that.

 

[Jordy]

It's not okay for them to behave that way... but acceptable if you do it, because "they deserve it"? Based on what you've said so far, like "If at some point you are in the power to make their life worse you should" or whatever, that's what I'm hearing here. Many bullies do what they do for JUST that type of reason, you know. "They deserve it", they think, when going after their target. It goes through the minds of many. The reason for their target "deserving it" may be nonsensical and random, but still... it goes through their minds nonetheless.

That's what I mean by "sinking to their level". It's why I wont allow myself to do anything like that: Because I'd be thinking and acting as the bullies do, if I did any of that. And the only thing THAT does is spread even more negativity. You may think it has some useful effect, like "hah, THAT will teach them a lesson", but no, the "lesson" it usually teaches them is how to be EVEN MORE ENRAGED and even more awful the next time they go after someone. AKA, it makes their behavior even worse, and it makes their next victims suffer more. And their negative behavior will be outright MULTIPLIED if they decide to come after YOU next, because in their mind, now you are the source of pain... you're no longer just a random person. And you wont be a target of mere bullying at that point. You'll be a target of their revenge. I'll let you figure out which of those two is worse.

There's so many freaking reasons why it's wrong to act like that, I could do this for like 5 pages. But I like to think I've made my point by now.

As has been said already in this topic: It takes real strength of heart to show kindness in the face of darkness, or to at least just say "no more of this" and drop the blade and simply walk away rather than striking. But just throwing hate back at hate? Any weak-minded idiot can do THAT.



Aye, that's a good way of putting that.

I think this because it has worked. I have taken the time to show kindness and gain understanding from those who have acted horribly. I believe that kindness is something many of these people don’t get and it throws them off their game. In a good way. It allows us to converse in a common language that we actually understand.

I believe this is important because of who I want to be in the world. I am not a cruel person, and therefore I cannot allow others to turn me into something I am not.

My experience is singular and anecdotal, but time and again my kindness has been recognized as a strength. More importantly, in my heart it feels like a strength.

@phantom, your feelings are valid too. It’s just that you said you don’t understand why anyone would think showing kindness would work. I am an anyone who believes that.

There are a lot of people out there that just aren't reasonable, they won't reward any kindness. They have no internal restraint that tells them how they shouldn't treat others, the only restraint they have is what is externally put on them by other people. If you are in the position to do so you should make it harder for these people to do their thing.

Their behaviour is only made worse when people bend over and reward it.

A lot of autistic people are very naive and will assume that everyone can be reasoned with when that's just not the case.

You can look up the occurrence of narcissism, sadism etc and how these people operate, I am not pulling this out of my behind.

 

[Misery]

A lot of autistic people are very naive and will assume that everyone can be reasoned with when that's just not the case.

I can flip that right on it's head and say that there are some who are naive (or whatever word fits here) in that they assume that nobody can be reasoned with when that's just not the case... see how that works?

I never at any point said everyone was this perfect good person underneath. I'm relatively certain that nobody here said that. In fact I said that some cannot be redeemed. Some are just cruel to the very core.

What I said overall, and I'm going to keep repeating this, is that some *can* be redeemed or reasoned with... and that's why it's worth trying. Whether or not you personally acknowledge this fact (or like it) is irrelevant. I've already seen it done successfully, as have others, so.... yeah.

Besides, "they cant be redeemed or reasoned with" is not an excuse to act like an angry toddler, having a fit and hitting everyone as angry toddlers do (which is how I see a lot of bullies, really, when they are doing their thing. It's also what I see in someone who BECOMES a bully in exactly the way you're describing). And that's all it is: an excuse. A way to justify your own pointless hate so you dont have to feel so bad about yourself. So that you can feel "right" when doing something awful. Just an excuse... and a lame one, at that. I wonder... how many of the bullies you have seen, in fact started out with the sort of reasoning you're using here? More than you think, likely.

As it is, here's something to consider: how can you personally know that nobody can be reasoned with when you yourself do not attempt to reason with them, with actual bloody kindness? Made even worse when you know nothing about whoever it is at the time.

Honestly based on everything that you've said so far... there's a lot of introspection and self examination you could do with, rather than assuming the problem is everyone else. I know, because I used to be where you are. I had that exact same anger and hate. It was terrible.

And I tell ya right now: It's worth it to defeat that hate. Take it from someone who actually did. It's certainly better than the alternative...


That's all I'm going to say right now though (particularly since it occurs to me abruptly that this silly arguement is hijacking someone's topic, again, that's an oops right there, I should have spotted that earlier, sorry bout that, y'all).

What you do with all of what I've said is up to you. Learn from it, or print it out and let the dog pee on it, whatever. My job here is done though.

 

[Jordy]

I can flip that right on it's head and say that there are some who are naive (or whatever word fits here) in that they assume that nobody can be reasoned with when that's just not the case... see how that works?

I didn't say no one can be reasoned with. I said a lot, and relatively because I think it's more than people then realize. I also put in the word "some" in my earlier post. That autistic people are particularly vulnerable to unreasonable antisocial people is a fact.

I never at any point said everyone was this perfect good person underneath. I'm relatively certain that nobody here said that. In fact I said that some cannot be redeemed. Some are just cruel to the very core.

I didn't say that you said everyone was perfect.

What I said overall, and I'm going to keep repeating this, is that some *can* be redeemed or reasoned with... and that's why it's worth trying. Whether or not you personally acknowledge this fact (or like it) is irrelevant. I've already seen it done successfully, as have others, so.... yeah.

Besides, "they cant be redeemed or reasoned with" is not an excuse to act like an angry toddler, having a fit and hitting everyone as angry toddlers do (which is how I see a lot of bullies, really, when they are doing their thing. It's also what I see in someone who BECOMES a bully in exactly the way you're describing). And that's all it is: an excuse. A way to justify your own pointless hate so you dont have to feel so bad about yourself. So that you can feel "right" when doing something awful. Just an excuse... and a lame one, at that. I wonder... how many of the bullies you have seen, in fact started out with the sort of reasoning you're using here? More than you think, likely.

I don't think that you understand how many bullies actually think and operate. You are just giving them a story to make them seem less threatening. Firstly bullies are overly confident(not secretly insecure), almost always high ranking and well liked by the group that they are a part of, and have more friends that like them than people who are bullied. The workplace bully is accepted and liked, has social support and their victim does not. He does it because there is a direct reward (stealing someone's work and time) or simply because it gives a pleasurable response in his brain, and people don't need a good thought out reason to do something when it gives a deep pleasurable sensation.

What really ticked me off is how some later comments in this thread seemed to imply you should forgive someone before they even did anything to earn forgiveness, that's being a pushover and a coping mechanism.

As it is, here's something to consider: how can you personally know that nobody can be reasoned with when you yourself do not attempt to reason with them, with actual bloody kindness? Made even worse when you know nothing about whoever it is at the time.

You are again repeating something I did not say.

Honestly based on everything that you've said so far... there's a lot of introspection and self examination you could do with, rather than assuming the problem is everyone else. I know, because I used to be where you are. I had that exact same anger and hate. It was terrible.

And I tell ya right now: It's worth it to defeat that hate. Take it from someone who actually did. It's certainly better than the alternative...


That's all I'm going to say right now though (particularly since it occurs to me abruptly that this silly arguement is hijacking someone's topic, again, that's an oops right there, I should have spotted that earlier, sorry bout that, y'all).

What you do with all of what I've said is up to you. Learn from it, or print it out and let the dog pee on it, whatever. My job here is done though.

Ironically for someone who is against assumptions you are making a lot of assumptions about me, which is just plain sad. But not completely off, there are some people in my family who I have put on the "eternal piece of **** list" and I can tell it's been getting to them and that they suffer from it.

 

[Mr. Stevens]

I am not sure why anyone would think showing them kindness would work as it's a language they don't even speak. They see it as weakness.

I don't think it's the case with the teacher in the original post, but I've definitely met people like this. They are beyond trust, and enjoy destroying certain values other people have. That can be love, trust, compromise, communication, or whatever. This small group seem to view second chances as an allowance to attack others.

 

[Rodafina]

@phantom, I was inclined to accept your words before you made the edits, now there are some things that need addressing.

There are a lot of people out there that just aren't reasonable, they won't reward any kindness.

I am not in it for the rewards. It is not about being rewarded or recognized for kindness… It is simply about getting to the truth. As you have noticed, people are negatively affected by cruelty. There is no way toward reason when either party is engaging in cruel behavior.

They have no internal restraint that tells them how they shouldn't treat others, the only restraint they have is what is externally put on them by other people. If you are in the position to do so you should make it harder for these people to do their thing.

You are very full of shoulds… You have mentioned what people should be doing several times now, but I do not subscribe to this idea. There is no universal morality that dictates what one should or should not do. There is understanding, there is logic, and there is free will. There is no should.

Please note where I said that, in my experience, kindness throws the other person off their game and does essentially make it harder for them to do their thing. So between you and I, our end is the same. Our means are different.

Their behaviour is only made worse when people bend over and reward it.

This is not an accurate description of showing kindness. Perhaps I need to be more clear and say that kindness manifests as showing respect and humanity to other humans.

I would argue that showing kindness means standing tall, and strong, and maintaining my integrity. There is no bending over. There is no rewarding.

There is seeking understanding because I am imperfect and I do not judge others for their actions. I seek to understand. Without all of the information, we are operating on assumptions, and you cannot know what is in a person’s mind and heart without getting to a baseline of respect with them.

A lot of autistic people are very naive and will assume that everyone can be reasoned with when that's just not the case.

You can look up the occurrence of narcissism, sadism etc and how these people operate, I am not pulling this out of my behind.

Please do not think that I am not aware of these types of things and these types of people. If you spoke to me more, you would begin to understand how deep my understanding goes of the darkness of the human mind. You have confused my refusal to give into cruelty with naivety, and this is a grave mistake.

The onus is not on me to do the research that would support your argument. I don’t believe this stuff is coming from your behind, but you are speaking in generalizations and somehow people with a tough home life who are taking their frustrations out on another have been equated with narcissists and sadists.

I am offering anecdotal evidence that my kindness has been fierce and powerful and it has gotten me things that I want, like a reduction in or obliteration of the original problematic behavior.

You have erroneously equated kindness with weakness, highlighting the great secret of kindness. It is a mighty powerful thing that when wielded by the right person, it can take down entire armies of evil. Kindness has the ability to maintain its form and function in the face of the greatest enemy the world can conjure. It is not for everyone, because not everyone is strong enough to stand up to the problems of the world and acknowledge that we are all one. We are all just cells and atoms. None is better than another just because we may perceive ourselves that way.

There is nothing that would turn me toward showing cruelty to another human being and casting them out of the human family.

It is clear that we operate in different ways on this matter, as I said, but it is unfair to say that showing kindness, and maintaining my integrity with great strength and confidence is somehow perpetuating ill will and cruelty in the world.

 

[Misery]

You are again repeating something I did not say.

Dude, you know what I freaking mean. By all of it. And there's a decent chance you also know why I said what I specifically said.

That's why, for once, I'm not going to simply repeat myself. The points were already made and continue to stand. None of them require changing on my part.

Also I noticed some edits in there, by the way. I'll just "sigh" about that and move on.

You are just giving them a story to make them seem less threatening.

No, I'm not, and you know what, on some level, perhaps deep down... I think you know that. Call it a hunch.

I mean good freaking grief I literally gave an example at the very start that I freaking witnessed myself. Nobody "gave her a story". I aint one to make something like that up. How much more clear does this need to get? And I know I aint the only one here who has seen such a thing for themselves.

ugh

Okay, this time, I AM going to actually bow out of this one. Properly. My patience is clearly unravelling and my arm hurts, which really isnt helping. I meant to bow out of it earlier but "unwatch thread" doesnt always seem to work right. Maybe I should be slower to click the blasted alerts next time, since I cant ever stop myself once I DO click. Bad habit, that.

One thing I will say first though: @Rodafina , you clearly have way more patience and general calmness than I do. I cant last this bloody long in an argument without cracking, happens every time regardless of the subject (whenever I abruptly leave a conversation, that's usually why). I could do to learn from your example, really. I'll attempt to keep it in mind.

Just thought I'd say that.

 

[Jordy]

First i want to clarify that often when i say "you" that in the context it is impersonal. I am not trying to put out direct critiques of your character here or demanding anything of you specifically.

@phantom, I was inclined to accept your words before you made the edits, now there are some things that need addressing.

I am not in it for the rewards. It is not about being rewarded or recognized for kindness… It is simply about getting to the truth. As you have noticed, people are negatively affected by cruelty. There is no way toward reason when either party is engaging in cruel behavior.

My point is that if you recognize the signs of an unreasonable anti social person there is no use in doing this. I think its like 5% of the population that is like that, and everyone is bound to deal with these people multiple times in their lives. This is diffirent from a dispute with a family member or a friend.

I think being shown respect or that they are thankful for you being kind to them is a deserved "reward". If people don't give you that in return you shouldn't be kind to them.

When you treat a person how they want to be treated (within reason) and they don't return it, then they aren't playing by the rules. If a person just doesn't play by the "rules" it shouldn't be rewarded in any way whatsoever. I think you are right in that you should at least initially approach them as if they do play by the rules, if you couldn't already determine that they don't.

"never forgive anyone ever and be cruel to them" was a bit ridiculous and i shouldn't have said that, what i should have said is "never forget and make sure there are reasonable consequences for a persons actions if you are in the position to do so". I am very convinced that if you want to be a fair person you should never let someone get of consequence free, and only forgive them if they actually did something to earn forgiveness, that is if they aren't in that 5% of unreasonable anti social people. If you want to forgive someone you should at very least check up with them and see if they can give out a honest apology. You shouldn't preemptively forgive.

You are very full of shoulds… You have mentioned what people should be doing several times now, but I do not subscribe to this idea. There is no universal morality that dictates what one should or should not do. There is understanding, there is logic, and there is free will. There is no should.

People shouldn't act in a way that makes theirs or other peoples life worse, i think that's pretty reasonable.

Please note where I said that, in my experience, kindness throws the other person off their game and does essentially make it harder for them to do their thing. So between you and I, our end is the same. Our means are different.

Sometimes someone wants you act revengeful towards them in the observation of other people so they can frame you as the bad actor. Obviously you shouldn't play along with this and you can sorta throw them of by acting as if you have no problem with them, so that when they try to pull something you can show them as the bad actor instead. But this doesn't work when the people in the environment are bullies or unreasonable themselves.

This is not an accurate description of showing kindness. Perhaps I need to be more clear and say that kindness manifests as showing respect and humanity to other humans.

I would argue that showing kindness means standing tall, and strong, and maintaining my integrity. There is no bending over. There is no rewarding.

There is seeking understanding because I am imperfect and I do not judge others for their actions. I seek to understand. Without all of the information, we are operating on assumptions, and you cannot know what is in a person’s mind and heart without getting to a baseline of respect with them.

Understanding why someone did something could help you avoid being wronged by the same kind of person in the same way, or knowing what the consequences should be or what they should do to earn forgiveness, if they can earn it. If you see good signs of an unreasonable anti social person that can give you the understanding that they shouldn't be forgiven, and honest communication isn't going to get you anywhere with them, and if you don't want them to wrong you again you should never give them another inch to pull something on you. You won't get the kind of information you want out of that person with the kindness, respect etc approach.

The onus is not on me to do the research that would support your argument. I don’t believe this stuff is coming from your behind, but you are speaking in generalizations and somehow people with a tough home life who are taking their frustrations out on another have been equated with narcissists and sadists.

I think its more likely that some people just have a temperament that makes them prone to externalization and have low self restraint. That will cause them to start taking it out on other people when they are having bad day or going trough a rough time or whatever, and maybe they wouldn't if their life is going well, but they have all the traits of what makes a person a bad person. Their traits aren't caused by the bad home situation or whatever, it's just their fuel.

When someone goes "i am not feeling well because x but i can relieve the feeling by taking it out on someone else" They should immediately be stopped in their tracts and learn that it won't work so they wont repeat the pattern again, instead it should become "if i feel bad and take it out on someone i will feel even worse" as soon as possible. Bad people haven't experienced the later often enough in their childhood, it needs to be wired into their head.

You have erroneously equated kindness with weakness, highlighting the great secret of kindness. It is a mighty powerful thing that when wielded by the right person, it can take down entire armies of evil. Kindness has the ability to maintain its form and function in the face of the greatest enemy the world can conjure. It is not for everyone, because not everyone is strong enough to stand up to the problems of the world and acknowledge that we are all one. We are all just cells and atoms. None is better than another just because we may perceive ourselves that way.

I also didn't say that kindness is weakness, giving undeserved kindness to someone who has clearly acted like they don't deserve it and wont respect you for it, that is. If the only way to deal with someone is to physically defend yourself, get them fired, removed from the environment or blocking all communication with then i wouldn't describe that as being kind.

There is nothing that would turn me toward showing cruelty to another human being and casting them out of the human family.

Not even jefrey dahmer? I mean some people are just not wired to be comfortable with being cruel to someone, even if they deserved to.


Anyway back on topic, the topic starter absolutely did the right thing in making that person conscious of their behavior. My "you should never forgive someone' wasn't exactly right and i shouldn't have said that.

 

[Owliet]

I'm not big on forgiveness, and my mind never forgets,

I tend to forgive a lot more than I should do but I never forget what has happened…sometimes I wish I could forget.

A friend of mine who is older than your typical undergraduate, enough not to buy into people's bs, or moved by rose tinted discourses anymore, told me this teacher were very rude with her. I fully believe her account, she's old, savvy, and sufficiently NT to perceive these things.

I don‘t really know what it’s like to teach at a higher education level but at higher level, it is held to a higher expectation and you should be treated as the young adult you are compared to being treated wit’s unfair bias. Obviously, I am not your teacher and I have no idea why she’s behaving in the manner with you, although I do think that you behaved well enough towards it. I had a few university lecturers who should never have been in the position to teach people by how they treated Undergraduate students. I had one instance when it was the early days of my first year and the one that I had (who was also my supervisor if I had problems) was such a *insert word of Choice here* in response to me not really responding the way he thought I should. I was not rude, I was just very anxious and he took it to mean that I was not listening when I was just feeling overwhelmed. I had mentors with me who were MA/PHD students paid to work with students with SEN needs (me) and the one I had told me to go the bathroom to calm down and she torn into him verbally — after that he was nice to me although it turned out that he was like that with everyone including his colleagues, so he was just a bit of a jerk . However, sometimes we have to remember that there are those who are biased and will be rude in their behavior. That is is their problem. Not yours. Although I am sorry that you have been in this situation. If it is really unfair behavior, report her to her boss or take it further to student services. If a kid (I teach middle and high school) came with a complaint about me, I’d be very devastated but would try to ensure that I would not make the student upset ever again. It is good however, that you have. A friend who is also saying the same about this teacher — it really does help to know that its not just you.

After she offended me when I questioned a grade

Unless it was an unreasonable grade, she shouldn’t have been offended that you questioned about it. She should have explained to you why you were graded like that…and what you can do to improve for next time. Sometimes I think some people just go into this profession because of the money…

 

[Darkkin]

Indulge in crappy behaviour, I lose respect for a person. And if I don't respect someone's opinions or behaviour, I ignore them. (No malice or revenge thoughts involved. That is wasted energy and pretty pointless, often self indulgent dithering. I have better things to do with my time.)

Basically, act like a jerk and I will not waste a thought or a moment interacting with such people. It is rare for me to actively dislike or avoid someone, but in certain cases I go out of my way to avoid contact and interaction(s) with said individuals.

My opinion doesn't mean anything to anyone but me, but those I chose to actively engage with are a conscious choice. I don't waste time with those I do not truly like. I have an eerily accurate character radar and it isn't driven by what people say, it is determined by how they act, small behaviours and context that scream out loud.

If I see deliberately hurtful behaviour, I call it out, and I do not allow those being consciously cruel a chance to repeat the pattern. I won't bear a grudge, but I will have no trust or respect for that person or their opinion again.

It is a behaviour known as the INFJ door slam. It isn't an endearing character trait, but it keeps me honest about a major character flaw. It is one of those rigid patterns that can be held to the point of breaking. There is no flex, no second chance. I terminate all contact and relegate the past to the past. I don't haul it out everyday and flay myself with another's poor behaviour. Once was enough.

Accidents and misunderstandings do happen, these allow for context and reflection, the deciding factor being was such an action a conscious choice to deliberately harm or distress another. I had an older sibling who did this so, I know what the patterns look like.

My circles are small, but there are no toxic personalities lurking within striking distance of me. I have the double empathy impact found in many female autistics, but I also have a hardcore logic and enough sense of self preservation to take a stand when I need to.

I don't charm easily and seldom allow anyone to look beyond my shields. I just don't get much out of social interactions, so I rarely bother with it. I don't put energy into disliking people. (It is a waste of resources and an easy way to become a raging hypocrite indulging in the same behaviour one decries in another.) I just don't want to interact with them. Leave me alone and I won't give them another thought.

 

[Azul]

Update: as I said in this thread Intrusive rumination , I was feeling ill from the rumination over it. Today I decided to talk with her. Before I get to it:

Although some in this thread got upset with the discussion, the matter isn't simple at all, so it is interesting to see all points of view. It is unfortunate that you felt bad for arguing, @Misery, I hope you're fine, and I must say I liked to read the discussion.

About the update:

Today I got in the university and asked if she would talk about it. She is clearly playing dumb, and pretended to not know what I was talking about, even though I criticized her in public.

She agreed on the condition that the rest of coordinators and the dean would be present, so I guess it is not going to be an "humane" talk, as I hoped, but just business and they trying to get rid of an annoying student. Worse, the snake will be there too.

So I suppose any hope for true understanding is gone. If she is playing dumb with obvious events, the snake is snaking, as always, and will be present, and if it suddenly involves the whole of administration, then there's not much hope for honesty and humanity.

Seems like another way to brush things under the rug and getting rid of annoyances, like the other behaviours. Basic gaslighting to cover up bullying.

At least at this point I'm even tired of it. Hopefully this means I will ruminate less. I'm thinking on whether I should go. The snake worries me, but not that much actually talking with the relevant teacher. I could just write an argument for why her discourse might be problematic and leave it, since I'm not keen on talking openly about my feelings in public. I've done that already with her, for lack of option, and I don't want to do it again. I've even though about disclosing my suspected ND traits, but I won't do that in public.

At least, I'm not feeling much anger, sadness or other negative emotions, right now. More than anything, I'm a bit afraid.

 

[Misery]

It is unfortunate that you felt bad for arguing, @Misery, I hope you're fine

Oh I'm fine, no worries about that.

At least, I'm not feeling much anger, sadness or other negative emotions, right now. More than anything, I'm a bit afraid.

For what it's worth, I'll just say, it's okay to be a bit scared of it. Just this type of general interaction, I mean, that you've got to do. Would make me nervous, even if it was a positive version of it.

 

[Luca]

I don't always readily forgive, though I'm capable, but I certainly don't forget. It's very hard to earn my trust back. I've been hurt too many times to keep falling for the same patterns.
I'm quick to end friendships when I'm being taken advantage of or if I don't feel cared about. The more someone has hurt me, the easier it is to cut the cord and move on from them.

@Misery and @Azul That type of interaction makes me nervous too.
I'm so sorry you're in this situation, Azul... I wish I had better advice, but I have been in very similar situations and the best I could do was just tell my side of the story with complete honesty, and hope that it showed that I was more sincere than the other people. I wish you the best and I hope this interaction has the best possible outcome!

 

[Judge]

I don't always readily forgive, though I'm capable, but I certainly don't forget. It's very hard to earn my trust back. I've been hurt too many times to keep falling for the same patterns.

That really resonates with me. Forgiving can happen, but there's always that lingering issue of not being able forget as well. When I'm wronged, I just file it away, but I never can discard it. Even with direct kin. Allowing a possibility of endless rumination over years. I wish I had the ability to just let things go...but I don't.

 

[Azul]

For what it's worth, I'll just say, it's okay to be a bit scared of it. Just this type of general interaction, I mean, that you've got to do. Would make me nervous, even if it was a positive version of it.

I'm thinking in dropping it, honestly. There's no way she'll be never, ever sincere about this. It will probably be a show to try to gaslight me, and nothing else.