What do you think? 'Active shooter response' tactical training

[Judge]

how much training does it take to become a police auxiliary, like hows that work?
i am very unfamiliar with american gun laws n stuff, i find it kinda fascinating.
i am completely clueless, i have anecdotally heard that you guys are allowed to
purchase fully automatic firearms, heavy weapons and i also heard it's
completely legal to own a flamethrower lol?

over here it's very different, my dad had a couple of shotguns a .303 and a .22 for
shooting ducks, deer n rabbits respectively.

Not every department or legal jurisdiction demands it, but most seem to require attending and passing POST (Police Officer Standard Training).

https://www.post.ca.gov/about-us.aspx

Possession of fully automatic weapons and other ordinance? It's very difficult to legally accomplish. Start reading:

https://www.atf.gov/qa-category/national-firearms-act-nfa

Basically the vast majority of law-abiding citizens have access only to semi-automatic pistols and rifles. That's all.

 

[metalminx24]

I had no intention of being political, or of saying what's right or wrong, just how things are seen here. Jamaica gets no press here, so thank you Judge for educating me. It was just a different perspective from this side of the pond, which didn't include blanket insults of all owners.

 

[Judge]

I had no intention of being political, or of saying what's right or wrong, just how things are seen here. Jamaica gets no press here, so thank you Judge for educating me. It was just a different perspective from this side of the pond, which didn't include blanket insults of all owners.

Well, your absence of insults is certainly appreciated in providing an alternative viewpoint. However what works in one country is never a guarantee of it working in another. No matter what the issue, culture or people involved my entail.

But Jamaica. Their laws are so incredibly strict. And yet they have little to no deterrence value.

You'd think with all the power in the hands of the state and not the people on such a small island nation that they could successfully control weapons and the crimes committed with them. But they can't...and for such a long time in trying.

 

[qwerty]

Not every department or legal jurisdiction demands it, but most seem to require attending and passing POST (Police Officer Standard Training).

https://www.post.ca.gov/about-us.aspx

Possession of fully automatic weapons and other ordinance? It's very difficult to legally accomplish. Start reading:

https://www.atf.gov/qa-category/national-firearms-act-nfa

Basically the vast majority of law-abiding citizens have access only to semi-automatic pistols and rifles. That's all.

wowsers, how much training is involved in passing the POST?
i am not being rude or making judgments, it's just soooooo unusual to my culture.

 

[clg114]

May I weigh in with a slightly different view from the UK?

I can see why folks who live in areas still populated by dangerous animals feel the need to arm themselves...although Andy grew up in Zimbabwe with rhinos and other things without being armed...but I see the point.

Fox-hunting is now banned in the UK, and has been for several years. Badgers haven't been hunted for sport for far longer. Both species are occasionally subjected to culls to prevent the spread of disease in cattle, but we're not all charging around on horseback shouting "tally-ho" and blowing bugles, and haven't for some time.

As far as protection from other people though...it seems like a vicious circle. We have many of the same social issues as the US, but because guns are more difficult to come by, the death toll is lower. That's not to say, of course, that there isn't gun or knife crime, just that it's less prevalent, at least in part due to availability of weapons.

I can understand that US people are grateful of their rights, and to say "if someone comes to my door with intent to kill me, I can do something about it". It's just very different in western europe, and most of what we see of US gun possession is tragedy on the news. It's a huge cultural difference, and it can be difficult to understand why a chance would be taken to allow people weapons when so many are so unpredictable.

Well, that's hopefully a slightly more balanced perspective, and to go back to the beginning of the thread, I'd like to think that the more training the better.

Well said. That is indeed more balanced perspective. Also, I did not know and I do not think most people on this side of the pond know that fox hunting was outlawed in the UK.

 

[Judge]

wowsers, how much training is involved in passing the POST?
i am not being rude or making judgments, it's just soooooo unusual to my culture.

Let's just say that it's not entirely removed from the intensity of boot camp in the military. But it's not what an FBI recruit would get at Quantico, either. Although again I suspect it varies greatly from one state to another.

"The POST-certified Regular Basic Course (basic academy) is the training standard for police officers, deputy sheriffs, school district police officers, district attorney investigators, as well as a few other classifications of peace officers. The basic academy is both physically and mentally challenging. It includes a minimum of 664 hours of POST-developed training and testing in 42 separate areas of instruction called Learning Domains. Most POST-certified basic training academies exceed the 664 hour minimum by 200 or more hours with some academies presenting over 1000 hours of training and testing.

Academy students are subject to various written, skill, exercise, and scenario-based tests. Students must also participate in a rigorous physical conditioning program which culminates in a Work Sample Test Battery (physical ability test) at the end of the academy. Students must pass all tests in order to graduate from the basic academy."

https://www.post.ca.gov/peace-officer-basic-training.aspx

i am not being rude or making judgments, it's just soooooo unusual to my culture.

Exactly! It's unusual to your culture. Despite our common language, as a former colonial entity we fought to attain our independence from a tyrannical and oppressive monarchy. We didn't wait patiently or obediently for it with the passage of centuries. It's a dynamic that colors us in so many ways, for better and for worse. Part of this also involves remaining highly suspicious of government and we do not condone giving it absolute control over our lives no matter what the reasoning may be. Thus many of us take our right to bear arms quite seriously. To defend ourselves if need be. Whether as an army, militia or as individual citizens within the framework of the law.

No....we don't really expect other nationalities to understand us. Even if we do share a common language.

 

[qwerty]

i wonder, if i started a thread to ask americans their views on gun control and how their right to bear arms impacts on their cultural identity would it just degenerate into arguments or not?

i mean there are plenty of countries that threw off the yoke of monarchy that don't share this
cultural identification with firearms, France inparticular springs to mind.

would americans consider it offensive if i was to start such a thread?
i definitely would not want to cause offense. this seems to be a uniquely american ideology.
i would really love it if people could just explain how they feel without judgment, like anyone
who posted would not be allowed to argue unless the forum rules were being broken.
could that work?

 

[Judge]

i wonder, if i started a thread to ask americans their views on gun control and how their right to bear arms impacts on their cultural identity would it just degenerate into arguments or not?

That's a loaded question. Any post revolving around American core-value issues is likely to degenerate into an argument.

Not to mention that if I was seeking a real consensus of American opinions on much of anything, it wouldn't be based from an Aspie website. A neurological profile where our own CDC places our demographic well under two percent of the population.

It's a major election cycle here...so demographic considerations run high at the moment.

 

[qwerty]

That's a loaded question. Any post revolving around American core-value issues is likely to degenerate into an argument.

Not to mention that if I was seeking a real consensus of American opinions on much of anything, it wouldn't be based from an Aspie website. A neurological profile where our own CDC places our demographic well under two percent of the population.

It's a major election cycle here...so demographic considerations run high at the moment.

yeah, your probably right, that's a shame though.
i don't personally know any americans except for you guys and i
respect your opinions and personal insights more than 'the masses'
i can feel the starting twinges of a special interest though

 

[Judge]

yeah, your probably right, that's a shame though.
i don't personally know any americans except for you guys and i
respect your opinions and personal insights more than 'the masses'
i can feel the starting twinges of a special interest though

Most Americans IMO tend to reflect highly ideological perspectives on a great deal of issues. I just don't think that way. If you were to quiz me on all those hot-button issues, you'd find little to link them all. I don't really have an ideological mindset. Even registered as a non-partisan voter. In most cases I just look at everything rather intricately and on its own merit.

 

[Judge]

And yet qwerty, the French are some of the most heavily policed as a people, by a laissez faire parental/authoritarian government. Quite a paradox in and of itself.

Not to mention that they went from an absolutist monarchy to a republic run by a ruthless Committee for Public Safety and then to an empire with an emperor within a mere 26 years.

I could see how a people prone to broad political swings might not appreciate the masses in control of their own firearms.

Another thing to consider is the scope and duration of America's frontier. A time and circumstance when everyone in the wild required a weapon in the relative absence of government authority for all kinds of reasons. And yet compared with other countries, this wasn't so long ago for us. We're a much younger country and people than most and evolving at a much faster pace. We haven't had the luxury of a millennium or two of other countries and cultures to work all these things out yet.

 

[Rayner]

Mr. Allen, I would like to respectfully suggest that you refrain

how much training does it take to become a police auxiliary, like hows that work?
i am very unfamiliar with american gun laws n stuff, i find it kinda fascinating.
i am completely clueless, i have anecdotally heard that you guys are allowed to
purchase fully automatic firearms, heavy weapons and i also heard it's
completely legal to own a flamethrower lol?

over here it's very different, my dad had a couple of shotguns a .303 and a .22 for
shooting ducks, deer n rabbits respectively.

Americans can own up to a .50 caliber, yes Americans can own fully automatic firearms but only with a special license issued thru the federal government. Heavy weapons I'm not sure, that's a little to vague for me to answer. Flamethrower...it depends on your definition of a flamethrower is

 

[metalminx24]

Supporters of fox hunting claim that the number of foxes killed has increased since the Hunting Act came into force in 2005, both by the hunts (through lawful methods) and landowners, and that hunts have reported an increase in membership[32] and that around 320,000 people (their highest recorded number) turned up to meets on Boxing Day 2006.[33] The Master of Foxhounds association lists 179 active hunts as of February 2013. The Federation of Welsh Packs lists 56 member hunts, while the Central Committee of Fell Packs lists 6 member hunts (which hunt on foot in the Lake District and the surrounding region).

Not to quibble Metalminx but they still go on, and there is still a baby seal hunt in my own country. It's not something I agree with, but no one country is sacrosanct from this sort of sport or trophy or subsistence hunting.

Crikey, ok...again, I wasn't saying anyone's perfect. I was just trying to be a brit not shouting angrily. I know hunts do still have many thousands of members, but they are supposed (if I had a bold option, I'd use it here) to hunt pre-laid scent trails rather than animals now. I'm sure illegal hunts still go on, but hopefully (again in bold) the illegality of them makes them a little less common. I'd be wary of any statement which begins "people who support xyz claim..." because of course they're likely to big themselves up.

Ach, this is why I tend to stick to the games...

 

[Judge]

Crikey, ok...again, I wasn't saying anyone's perfect. I was just trying to be a brit not shouting angrily. I know hunts do still have many thousands of members, but they are supposed (if I had a bold option, I'd use it here) to hunt pre-laid scent trails rather than animals now. I'm sure illegal hunts still go on, but hopefully (again in bold) the illegality of them makes them a little less common. I'd be wary of any statement which begins "people who support xyz claim..." because of course they're likely to big themselves up.

Ach, this is why I tend to stick to the games...

The hunting of animals is just another hotly contested issue in our country as well. Locally it's a pretty bitter concern between animal activists and hunters, whether it involves firearms or not. Particularly over bears whose hibernation and behavior is so tied to the weather here. And stupid humans who continually don't properly dispose of their trash.

Personally I'm not a fan of hunting any animals...but I'm not an activist of it either. When I shoot at critters, it's always with my camera.

 

[clg114]

The hunting of animals is just another hotly contested issue in our country as well. Locally it's a pretty bitter concern between animal activists and hunters, whether it involves firearms or not. Particularly over bears whose hibernation and behavior is so tied to the weather here. And stupid humans who continually don't properly dispose of their trash.

Personally I'm not a fan of hunting any animals...but I'm not an activist of it either. When I shoot at critters, it's always with my camera.

Agree. I am a gun guy and own many firearms, but I do not hunt. I only poke holes in paper. However, I do not have a problem with those who hunt, provided that they consume what they kill. I have seen people shoot animals just to kill something and I think that is the result of a sick mind.

 

[qwerty]

honestly, i think the american obsession with firearms is truly insane.
it's fascinating.

 

[Rayner]

honestly, i think the american obsession with firearms is truly insane.
it's fascinating.

To be honest with majority of Americans don't care about firearms, nor any interest in them, majority doesn't carry them.

 

[Judge]

To be honest with majority of Americans don't care about firearms, nor any interest in them, majority doesn't carry them.

Yep. The issue is constantly exaggerated. Here's some of the real numbers from the FBI pertinent to states with the most legal applications for firearms. Not so alarming when you consider the total population at 318+ million people. Geez, my state didn't even make the cut of the top ten. But then when you consider our demographics...we're a tiny state in population.

But those of us who own them legally are pretty sensitive when it comes to our constitutional right to bear arms.

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/republic3-0/2015/10/which_states_have_the_most_gun057962.php

 

[Judge]

My paternal Grandmother who lived to over one hundred years old, kept a revolver in her bedside nightstand. One night she woke to the sound of someone or something in the attic above her bedroom, she was alone and startled. My Grandfather was away on the job. She shot through the ceiling and frightened a racoon, who never came back. The bullet hole is still there, think she could have used some sort of tactical training.

LOL... raccoons can be incredibly aggressive. I ran into one once while dumping trash into a dumpster. Made a very tactical exit backing up without turning around. He could have it...the dumpster was all his.

Bears, raccoons, possums...fearless in terms of mingling with us humans from time to time. But then hunger makes for a pretty basic incentive.

 

[clg114]

LOL... raccoons can be incredibly aggressive. I ran into one once while dumping trash into a dumpster. Made a very tactical exit backing up without turning around. He could have it...the dumpster was all his.

Bears, raccoons, possums...fearless in terms of mingling with us humans from time to time. But then hunger makes for a pretty basic incentive.

You are right about that, wild animals are... well, wild. When I was a kid, I saw a domesticated cat catch a wild squirrel. It did not take the cat long to figure out that was a bad idea. The cat got away from the squirrel as quick as he could and the squirrel scampered up a tree. Since the cat is a predator and the squirrel is not, I was surprised. It just goes to show that there is a very big difference domesticated animals and wild animals.