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What is a religion?

I love roses said:
And every civilization is going to continue to collapse because man can’t stop being greedy, especially the ones at the top. It’s all the same. That is why the book is true. No new thing under the sun.
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Actually, Bronze age civilization collapsed because of a perfect storm of 200 years of drought which coincided with an earthquake storm that devastated the northern coast of present day Turkey. The final nail in the coffin was the trade routes to central Asia, which was the source of Tin necessary to make Bronze, were overrun by nomadic raiders who were displaced by the droughts.

This inability to make bronze due to a lack of tin eventually lead to the rise of the Iron age which didn't require thousand mile long trade routes.
 
Know what you mean Pappy, rise and fall of nations can be from greedy wealthy, drought,disease, debauchary, wars, even meteors hitting the earth and either causing deserts or ice ages.South American Myans are thought to have exhausted crops and traveled to take over the Pueblos, hence the side of the mountain dwellings with pull up ladders. They were more aggressive and Pueblos were not used to war. In addition to this. they also wrote about cataclysmic end of the world prophecies etc. (gotta tie religion into the thread, haha!)
 
I had never heard of him but I did read about him today and watched one video. I hate that he is being attacked for his balanced views. I feel he is especially balanced in religious views. He doesn’t accept brainwash. Now we gotta not let the thread go political but he has put forth some political warnings and is under persecution. He collects Russian art as a reminder of what can happen here as similar movements are developing. I was aware of the development but was not aware it came from Yale humanities department. The stress is getting to him and he is getting autoimmune skin issues and has to change diet to deter depression. He is a hot speaker now but has to weigh every word to keep riding the wave of success. He says in riding a wave you often drown. I agree with his anti political correctness in the extreme. He isn’t bigoted as he will use preferred pronouns but not if it is used for political posturing and abuse of rights of others. He said his religious view if he gave then correct answer would be that there isn’t a God but just in case there one he can’t say there isn’t. Did you find a different statement? Some people sometimes misquote to fulfil their own agenda.
 
pamelaperejil said:
Anything you put blind faith in when it cannot be proven right or wrong.
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That is the general definition. But what about people who in AA say the coffee table is their higher power. Or people who have ditched any form of religion but to fill the void make up a personal practice of meditative discipline? Would that be religion in a different form, one without required faith? One friend said his music jam group was his church and they were not into religion. He was referring to the things church is supposed to provide, friendship with a family feel, meeting every week, sharing meals, caring.
 
I love roses said:
That is the general definition.
But what about people who in AA say the coffee table is their higher power.

Religion. Also psychosis.

Or people who have ditched any form of religion but to fill the void make up a personal practice of meditative discipline? Would that be religion in a different form, one without required faith?

No, meditation is not religion.

One friend said his music jam group was his church and they were not into religion. He was referring to the things church is supposed to provide, friendship with a family feel, meeting every week, sharing meals, caring.

Those are called "friends".
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I love roses said:
Yes, they came out of basically, Iraq. So they were related to jews before Abraham got with his housemaid Hagar. Sounds like a family feud. But in the Biblical account, God says he chose the Jews specifically for their inferiority or weaknesses so God’s power could be more greatly exhibited through them as a vehicle or manifestation of His power. The creator seems to play them off each other depending which one is in the worst sin and rebellion. The two nations are relatives that God teaches and guides sometimes even using jealousy between the two to bring about a positive result.
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God says that Jews are inferior? No wonder I dislike organized religions, especially Christian ones. I am not Jewish, but this really all is extremely ridiculous and upsetting. And we all wonder why the world is so filled with hate!

Evangelicals and others are following an ancient made up book word for word, hating Jews, homosexuals, and a whole bunch of others different then themselves. The bible was written by 13 men at the council of Nicea in 325 AD in a very authoritarian society. These 13 bishops are responsible for this anthology of old stories called “the bible.” Nothing more. They threw in a whole bunch on the ascetics/ hippie martyr dudes like Jesus, and others who did truly great works and lived honestly. It was an exciting upturn in the ancient stories anthology, and also served to let people know what will happen should they want to be nonconformists too.

A god that wants you to “worship him” is narcissistic. A god that plays people off one another, and sits there allowing people, children in this world to suffer, be tortured, raped, starved, diseased, endure atrocities of war, etc. through no actions or poor desicions of their own is extremely unfeeling, power hungry, sadistic, and irresponsible.

The Bible is responsible for the Manifest Destiny doctrines, which destroyed many indigenous populations. It allowed for stealing lands of Native Americans and all of both Continental Americas, All of Africa, Australia, India, and many island nations in all five oceans. The Indigenous populations of the entire Artic Circle were /are also destroyed, and so many cultures / ways of life interrupted. Children were sent to boarding schools and beaten into submission to learn a Christian religion. The Spania tortured Indians into believing in a Christian god or lose hands, arms, and watch their infants beheaded back in the early “colonization” of Hispaniola, and all the Americas.

Manifest Destiny, and the destruction of the natural environment, stems from this fabrication called “the Bible.” The bible as well as the passions of other religions (the Koran for one) are responsible for most wars in the history of mankind. If not for religions, and bibles saying Jews are “inferior,” or “your religion is wrong, mine is right,” the Buddhists would not be killing the Rohingas as we speak. There would be no WW2, or Crusades, or Middle East conflicts (with USA ) , nor Irish religious bombings of the 1990s, or any other of the uncountable and notable wars, travesties in the history of man. There would no presidents stating that Muslims need to get out of the country.

For whatever religion does to make a person feel all warm and fuzzy inside, there are horrific stories of why it comes with a hideous past, and continues to influence some people into horrific treatments of their fellow mankind.
 
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Those religions have definitely been used that way by various authorities. There are some good things in them but you can’t check your head in at the door when you walk in. I don’t place any trust in those human authorities. The passage on the jews was because of the size of their nation which was very small and still is and they were small stature as opposed to giants like Goliath. But even if religion was outlawed, I think the authorities would pit people against each other with something else and I think they do that already. So the question is what is religion? I say it is a practice that some choose to believe in without proof for various reasons.
 
God as a narcissist. Many people do believe the Christian God is narcissistic. But the book has to be read in context cover to cover to know that it is not true Narcissism. A true Narcississt does not care for or feel for the other person. Yet all the provoking, jealousies, dying on cross, purpose is to save man from his own destruction and for a mutual relationship of good between Creator and the created. If the OT is read by itself, God can look like an Ogre. It isn’t until some of Paul’s epistles that things are better explained. These gaps in explanation is what makes it so easy to be misused in the wrong hands. It almost seems if everyone did what was in the book there would be some kind of utopia. But due to the fact that there are always humans that prefer to be supreme over others it seems that is an impossibility and that the concept of utopia is used to exploit the vulnerable. So in this case what is religion? In this framework religion is a creation used to exploit. But ww2 used the concept of utopia in the same way that was humanistic and not religious and had the same exact outcome. So it may not be religion but people that is the issue and why we must still keep our thinking caps on and critical mental skills and pay attention when we engage with religion or any ideal.
 
I love roses said:
God as a narcissist. Many people do believe the Christian God is narcissistic. But the book has to be read in context cover to cover to know that it is not true Narcissism. A true Narcississt does not care for or feel for the other person. Yet all the provoking, jealousies, dying on cross, purpose is to save man from his own destruction and for a mutual relationship of good between Creator and the created. If the OT is read by itself, God can look like an Ogre. It isn’t until some of Paul’s epistles that things are better explained. These gaps in explanation is what makes it so easy to be misused in the wrong hands. It almost seems if everyone did what was in the book there would be some kind of utopia. But due to the fact that there are always humans that prefer to be supreme over others it seems that is an impossibility and that the concept of utopia is used to exploit the vulnerable. So in this case what is religion? In this framework religion is a creation used to exploit. But ww2 used the concept of utopia in the same way that was humanistic and not religious and had the same exact outcome. So it may not be religion but people that is the issue and why we must still keep our thinking caps on and critical mental skills and pay attention when we engage with religion or any ideal.
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Man created all so called “gods” and yeah, they all are narcissists (and sadists.) All of them “gods” through history. We must offer sacrifices, and bow down to them and they “rule” over us. We gladly endure the pain, and suffering because “god gave that to you as a test.” Little children suffer child abuse, people suffer through terrible disease, famine, droughts, abusive spouses, wars....yeah, “god gives us these tests to make sure we are worthy.” Yeah, right.

Unfortunately, during high school (1970s) I studied all the major religions heavily, and did read “the book”- “cover to cover.” I also have found that many so called leaders, religion pastors, priests, ministers, etc interpret the book differently. Which is why there are so many widely varying sects of Christianity. Interpretation of “the book” is what causes some to take each word as absolute rule, (“god hates fags” - Westbrook Church of Nebraska, USA, for one example) and others to take it as strictly metaphors (Unitarians who accept all kinds of sexuality, homosexual marriages, and even female deacons, as another example).

As for WW2, there were popes that shared common interests/ relationships with Hitler and Mussolini. The Catholic Church historically is fraught with controversies throughout time and continues to be at the forefront.
 
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When it comes to discussion on religion, one thing that probably should be explained is what exactly constitutes a religion. Let me start by noting that all true religions are founded on a belief in an order that is not signed or legislated by any flesh and blood beings, this being something that flesh-and-blood beings cannot change.
 
Here's a dictionary definition:
Definition of religion | Dictionary.com
The first two make sense to me. But honestly, I think religion means different things to different people. There was this saying I heard once that one person's cult is another person's religion. It's so true. I mean some groups are clearly cults but there is still a grey area.
 
Hope no one minds if i spin this a little. But a good many man made religions focused on natural events. Many old temples are built on fault lines and places of volocanic activity.
 
When giving a definition of religion, it's not enough to just link to the dictionary, I was hoping someone would give one here.
Butterfly88 said:
There was this saying I heard once that one person's cult is another person's religion. It's so true. I mean some groups are clearly cults but there is still a grey area.
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Are professional sports examples of groups that are clearly cults?
 
Myrtonos said:
Are professional sports examples of groups that are clearly cults?
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I wasn't referring to sports, was referring to groups that truly brainwash people and cause harm to everyone involved. Some people like sports and they generally aren't harmful. That could be a good example of what is a cult to you though.
 
How was I supposed to know that you were referring to groups that harm people involved, is 'cult' often understood that way?
The thing about professional sports is that they have a lot of rules, rituals and procedures and a lot of emotion involved. But if you look closely, note that professional sports are all understood as something invented by humans, furthermore, there are humans who may, at any time, change the rules of the games, for example, the International Olympic Committee may at any time change the rules of any Olympic sport.
Furthermore, there is no doctrine of the afterlife of a follower of a professional sport.
 
So for example, Christianity and other Abrahamic religions are all founded on a belief in a God who has extra-human powers, such as the power to reward and punish people even after they die. God makes rules of behaviour that no flesh-and-blood beings can change and any mere mortal who does what God thinks is evil gets punished after they die. The law of God is an order not signed or legislated by flesh-and-blood beings.
When Christianity was the dominant religion in Europe, it was the basis for the rules of behaviour in European society.
 
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