What is friendship?

[Cosmophylla]

I have a lot of trouble maintaining more than a couple of friendships at a time. The emotional investment required, as well as the investment of time, means most friends move back down my scale of importance to the position of acquaintance. Most people I know, aside from family, are technically acquaintances even though today it seems to be normal to call them friends.

Interestingly, a young woman in Sydney devised a 6-stage friendship theory, that has since gone viral. The scale breaks people down into categories from acquaintance to friend.

I'd be interested in hearing others' opinions about it. How many friends do you consider you have? Does that number stay the same after applying the theory to them? Do you think the word 'acquaintance' has a negative connotation? What do you think makes someone a friend?

 

[DogwoodTree]

According to the "6-stage friendship theory", my only "friend" is my DH, but it said that partners are excluded. There are 2 people who would qualify as "pre-friends", and very, very few people in my life would even qualify as "acquaintance level 3."

I think "acquaintance" does have a negative connotation in society at large, but for me personally, it's always felt more accurate. I just don't use it often because it seems to annoy people.

 

[tree]

I think the girl used this model from which to develop her version of the Friendship Theory.
https://taraburke.wordpress.com/2009/04/18/friendship-and-the-6-stage-model/
http://www.ohiocommstudies.com/people/rawlins/
Her model cites 5 relationships; this one includes additional one, that of 'Waning Friendship.'

The tone of the 'non-viral' version is more matter of fact, less facebook-y.
Hers draws attention to the concept, but to me the Bill Rawlins style version
is more relevant/tells me more/shows me a picture that is easier to understand.

 

[Vinca]

I find it very useful to see the levels of aquaintance broken down in this way and a description of the different acquintance levels and what a friend is as it gives a clearer picture of what these things are. I also feel sad though, because it's describes something that I want but don't have, a friend

 

[Judge]

I never had more than a handful of those I would have considered actual friends. Even if I thought I was capable of even having many friends, I couldn't imagine trying to balance a great number of them for so many reasons.

When I look back on my life, I can't help but lament that those I thought were real friends were ones made as a young child. As an adult friendships became much more difficult and complex....and fleeting for a variety of reasons.

 

[clg114]

I have not had many friends in my life. The ones that I have had were based on a common interest like golf, fishing, riding or other things. When we lose contact, I always feel like it was because of my not maintaining the friendship. It is like I do not keep in contact with people unless there is a specific reason.

 

[tree]

Lindsey Kelloway: What are people like, on the inside?
Powder: Inside most people there's a feeling of being separate — separated from everything.
Lindsey: And?
Powder: And they're not. They're part of absolutely everyone, and everything.
Lindsey: Everything? I'm part of this tree? Part of Zach barking over fences? You're telling me that I'm part of some fisherman in Italy, on some ocean I've never even heard of? There's some guy sitting on death row — I'm part of him too?
Powder: You don't believe me.
Lindsey: It's hard to believe that — all of that.
Powder: That's because you have this spot that you can't see past. My grams and gramps had it, the spot where they were taught they were disconnected from everything.
Lindsey: So that's what they'd see if they could? That they're connected?
Powder: And how beautiful they really are. And that there's no need to hide, or lie. And that it's possible to talk to someone without any lies, with no sarcasms, no deceptions, no exaggerations or any of the things that people use to confuse the truth.
Lindsey: I don't know a single person who does that.
from 'Powder' - 1995.

 

[Spiller]

Hmm, 2 pre-friends and 3 aquaintance level 2-3's.. In real life.
Many aquaintances, 2 pre-friends and a friend on-line.

There's definitely confusing crossover/shades of grey, as mentioned in the article notes.

I think making connections is such a fundamentally important survival instinct to people that they will react with hurt and fear when referred to as an aquaintance rather than as a friend, as if they're being pushed out of a social group, demoted, criticised, isolated..

I've come to see this as a series of concentric rings with me at the center, the people I know located in the outer circles at greater distances.
Most people would have maybe 10-15 friends in the first 3 rings, with 1-5 in the first ring, the outer ones being reserved for the large pool of known faces/names encountered on a daily/weekly basis.
I have 1 person standing in my inner ring, 4 in my second and third rings..
I'd place a partner in the centre circle with me.

I've always had trouble with the concept of friendship as I'd never met someone who fell comfortably within my sense/understanding of 'friend' - so classifying them in defined levels makes sense to me.

Was someone a friend if it turns out they were taking advantage of you, say, always borrowing money they never paid back?
You'd placed them on the scale, you felt good when you were with them - whether they were invested or just pretending..

 

[Fitzo]

As some of you will know I have only recently stumbled across Aspergers, but I'm pretty certain I fit on the spectrum.

Since making this discovery I have been focused on very little else. Naturally this means I have been going back over my life and looking at things in a very different light and trying to get a better understanding.

I have never made friends easily and now have very few people I would call friends.
There have certainly been people who have just drifted away from me for reasons I have never really understood and others I have chosen to walk away from for very good reasons.
However many if not most of them I just haven't been able to muster sufficient energy to pursue. I was always really bad at keeping up with friends when I was in a romantic relationship. I really only wanted that one person, which needless to say created problems for them! When it inevitably didn't work out, I was always completely alone again as I had pretty much burned everyone else. So I had to set about trying to make new friends again.

I have realised that one of the reasons I don't make friends easily is I don't really like people much. I am just not interested in the trivial nonsense that a lot of people seem to find important. Therefore my pool of potential friends is severely restricted. If I do find someone I really connect with, it's a momentous occasion. I tend to make better friendships with men rather than women. However, that is also a potential minefield as from my observations, men are rarely interested in a platonic relationship with a woman. Once I realise they are interested in more than friendship I run a mile. Not that I'm not attracted to men, but it's even more rare to find a man I actually want to be in a relationship with. In the rare event I do fall for someone, I immediately start to go into major panic around what will happen when they see the 'real' me. This in itself guarantees it won't work out. It's hopeless! And of course when it does end I go into major meltdown for a long time. It seems to take forever to get my equilibrium back.

So apart from all that, I have come to the conclusion that a lot of the time, I'm trying to make friends to make other people happy. I mean people expect you to have friends. And if you don't, well you must be weird! Which is itself a reason to avoid you! The thing is though.... I'm usually pretty happy to be on my own! Occasionally there are things I want to do which you kind of need someone to go with, but now I'm wondering if that's really true? Is it that I need someone to go with....or......am I just worried that people will think I'm weird if I go on my own?

Is it just time I stop worrying about what people think and just do what I want to do?

Any thoughts, experiences and opinions gratefully received.

 

[The Midge]

I'm interested in people but just can't figure them out. And why do NTs talk so much trivial nonsense all the time?

Give me an activity, a task or a role to play and I'm a lot happier. A pet subject is even better.

I really struggle with social institutions, such as church or going to social events run by clubs when you go beyond the common interest.

Well, I hardly have a friendship circle at all. As for giving advice on my daughters friendship issues- utterly useless. She now has an Aspergers diagnosis.

I think my dislike of social gatherings is from being bullied, misunderstood and left out. I now don't want to put myself in a situation where I wind up getting hurt again.

 

[Suzanne]

My husband has said to me: you a great at making friends ( really lol)? But dreadful for KEEPING friends.

So, that translates to me as: I have no idea how to keep a potential friend from flourshing and so, back away.

I do have one lady, who I would call a friend; simply because I can tell her virtually everything and we seem to be on the same page and I even text her first often, because of a sense of: it is ok. She lives a good distance from me, but we do see each other occasionally, due to belonging to the same congregation. However, not so sure if it would be easier if we lived close by. I still think I would not be able to judge how much is too much if I were to visit.

Friendships are a two way partnership; really, just as a marriage is. To me, a friendship is one who you feel yourself around.

 

[SusanLR]

Is it just time I stop worrying about what people think and just do what I want to do?

YES.
I always wanted just one person at at time to fulfill both friendship and romantic interest. Then when it fell apart, yes, I was hurt and shutdown to everyone as a friend.

Like you, if I did just want to enjoy being with someone to do things with I got along better with men. But, same here, that was hard to find. They weren't content with just that. So, just friends, never really had but a few I would call that looking back on my life.

One thing that never bothered me though was the feeling of needing to have friends or do anything because I thought that was what others do, wanted me to do, or felt I should do because of wanting to fit in.
I just didn't care.
My way was do what pleased me, not what pleased others.

 

[ZebraAutismo]

l try to remember what seems trivial to me may be important to other. Since people probably think my thoughts and my anxiety in particular are trivial.

For years I had a girl I liked to be with but only a few years later would I call that a friendship. These days I do have friends but a lot of them are other aspies.

At school I clicked with girl I was often paired with due to us having simler needs. Who I made friends with which gave me courage to try and make new ones.

 

[Keigan]

Do what pleases you and don’t be too concerned with what others think.

For myself, that which pleases me is a friendship that is based upon mutual respect, emotional connection and reciprocation, good questions, some humor, that we create a safe environment where we can talk about anything, that someone cares and that I care for them and their wellbeing.

 

[Fridgemagnetman]

Since making this discovery I have been focused on very little else. Naturally this means I have been going back over my life and looking at things in a very different light and trying to get a better understanding.

I think I did this. It meant I was happier with the past - regardless of negative experiences and hurt I may have caused other people. I found the 'source' or the secret sauce. I tried to do right and still do,understanding myself means forgiving myself.

I mean people expect you to have friends. And if you don't, well you must be weird! Which is itself a reason to avoid you! The thing is though.... I'm usually pretty happy to be on my own

Liked that 'you're weird. Must avoid' if you dont fit in to that social sphere where everyone knows everything about everyone you get that label.
All i read since about 'gossip' and how it is used to form social bonds of trust is interesting. Didnt do any of that. Wasnt aware what people were doing, left oblivious why friendships weren't kept or how i had said things to offend.

But thing is,with friends, there is all those signals to say 'time to leave' ' well, i must be going' missing those signals puts you in the 'one to avoid' category.
I tend to go for brevity, make a quick joke,offend someone accidentally then they can avoid. Not that im bothered too much.

Is it just time I stop worrying about what people think and just do what I want to do?

Everyone will say yes to this.
BUT, just for fun, why dont you just do whatever i tell you instead?

 

[Fitzo]

Thanks everyone for your input and advice.
I think I am getting better at not caring what others think as I get older, but I have had a lifetime of working at trying to fit in. I also think social interaction is different for girls than boys. I grew up in a city, but now live in a small town. It's much easier to be anonymous when you live in a city. In a small town everyone does know your business and lots of them also know each other. So if you're perceived to be 'different' everyone knows about it. It's a blessing and a curse. I think how I feel will change over time and that may or may not become easier if and when I get a diagnosis.
I do think I am starting to be kinder to myself now that I recognise the reasons for things I never understood before.

 

[Chance]

I like people, but if I get very close it seems like most often I get in situations where I get used, or not liked because my ASD weirdness gets in way, or I cant change to fit what they see me as...

I have quite a few friends... but these days I just sort of hold myself at a distance and don't get super involved in their lives, or let them very deep into mine. It just seems safer that way. Best friends are hard to come by. I had one but he passed away from brain cancer not long ago. It hurt worse than losing one of my family members... The one guy who got me and was with me through thick and thin gone way too early in life. I miss his goofiness so bad.

Life sucks sometimes, and tends to take the things and people we care most about... only to leave us with stuff and people we don't really care to deal with.

LIFE for me has been a hard lesson to learn, but I have learned to love the experience and not take it for granted so much... A lesson millions never grasp at all.

I am super quiet, but over time I have proven to not be a total idiot by those around me. I'm stable yet I take risks others won't and I dont explain why or what I am doing. I guess a few people find that curious or maybe even different enough that sometimes they just want to be around someone who isn't into the drama or ready to gossip about other people. I don't say much because I noticed when I was very little, that most words are just better left not said. I look for those people who are not out for some drama experience and not having to pretend to be something we are not... Those people are hard to find, but they are out there.

 

[Dadwith2Autisticsons]

For me, I never needed a friend up until age eighteen or so, as I had my twin brother. He was my friend. He understood me, accepted me, and appreciated me, as he was like me in most ways. I talked to him, and we did things together, and we needed nobody else to get through that harsh life.

That changed as we moved apart. I was facing life alone through my college and university years, as he went off to the military and then lived apart after he came back from that. I could have used a friend, male or female, to talk issues through, as the anxiety was so bad then I vomited every day.

I had mixed emotions. I felt without a friend then nearby, I would get stronger by facing everything by myself. I could be seen as a separate person now, and make decisions entirely myself. My friend could be my internal thoughts that I batted around in my head. I could learn too by analyzing issues & others.

But, then as I took walks at night, I felt life was unfair, as there were a lot of mean or neutral persons with friends and in relationships, but not me. I questioned whether I wanted friendship or relationships as it was supposed to be what I wanted, or because I really wanted that.

In my case, I think I knew life could be more fun with a friend or partner, doing things together, but I felt there would be extra pressures to be a person that they wanted me to be too. I had doubts that someone could really like a really shy guy who was more an indoor person or park person where less persons were near.

Anyways, I decided not to waste my time looking for friends or partners, as I was not ready for those yet. On rare occasion I talked to my brother on the phone, and I focused instead on self-improvement, so as I would have less anxiety, more social confidence should chance encounters with others occur, and to worry less.

Once I accomplished that, to my liking, I started naturally doing what my mind was telling me to do: to help others. I felt helping shyer and socially anxious persons by creating a group online was what I wanted to do. I found friends this way naturally, through my efforts and them getting to know me, and me getting to know them through something I loved doing.

When a few initiated a desire to meet, I welcomed that, as it gave me an opportunity not only to meet persons I knew well and liked, and could relate to, to increase better any social skills through real life meetup experiences, but to see if we could bond on a deeper level. Most lived far away, so we had to continue the friendship online after the meeting.

Then I met one friend that lived only four hours away. She had needs to be helped as she was in an abusive home environment and with several conditions, and I had needs to help and make others happier and less distressed, as that is who I am. I would have been fine with just friendship, and to visit each other just as friends, and nothing more.

Once she though wanted to pursue things further, when we became closer, I was fine with that. Things were awkward at first, as it was the first time for each of us, but we grew together and learned together, and did not need each other to fit some stereotype. We listened to each others' needs, and assisted there, but allowed each other many freedoms to do things in only their ways.

So, my best friend now is my wife. My twin a close second, but finding a friend to share everything with and be close to in all ways, despite being so different than myself, to me is even more fulfilling and special than being very close to someone totally like me, not because of the more physical attraction, but the other compatible differences.

 

[OkRad]

As some of you will know I have only recently stumbled across Aspergers, but I'm pretty certain I fit on the spectrum.

Since making this discovery I have been focused on very little else. Naturally this means I have been going back over my life and looking at things in a very different light and trying to get a better understanding.

I have never made friends easily and now have very few people I would call friends.
There have certainly been people who have just drifted away from me for reasons I have never really understood and others I have chosen to walk away from for very good reasons.
However many if not most of them I just haven't been able to muster sufficient energy to pursue. I was always really bad at keeping up with friends when I was in a romantic relationship. I really only wanted that one person, which needless to say created problems for them! When it inevitably didn't work out, I was always completely alone again as I had pretty much burned everyone else. So I had to set about trying to make new friends again.

I have realised that one of the reasons I don't make friends easily is I don't really like people much. I am just not interested in the trivial nonsense that a lot of people seem to find important. Therefore my pool of potential friends is severely restricted. If I do find someone I really connect with, it's a momentous occasion. I tend to make better friendships with men rather than women. However, that is also a potential minefield as from my observations, men are rarely interested in a platonic relationship with a woman. Once I realise they are interested in more than friendship I run a mile. Not that I'm not attracted to men, but it's even more rare to find a man I actually want to be in a relationship with. In the rare event I do fall for someone, I immediately start to go into major panic around what will happen when they see the 'real' me. This in itself guarantees it won't work out. It's hopeless! And of course when it does end I go into major meltdown for a long time. It seems to take forever to get my equilibrium back.

So apart from all that, I have come to the conclusion that a lot of the time, I'm trying to make friends to make other people happy. I mean people expect you to have friends. And if you don't, well you must be weird! Which is itself a reason to avoid you! The thing is though.... I'm usually pretty happy to be on my own! Occasionally there are things I want to do which you kind of need someone to go with, but now I'm wondering if that's really true? Is it that I need someone to go with....or......am I just worried that people will think I'm weird if I go on my own?

Is it just time I stop worrying about what people think and just do what I want to do?

Any thoughts, experiences and opinions gratefully received.

This is as complicated as a question can be! What is a Friend goes back to ancient times and since that is my special interest, I hope you don't mind me going back in time to answer! To the Greeks, you would do as much good to your friends as possible (while doing as much harm to your enemies, but we will ignore that last part!).

Friends were those with whom you aligned to better accomplish great deeds which , in Aristotle's thinking, brought about eudaimonia (roughly, "happiness".) There are many philosophers who have treatises on Friendship such as Aristotle and Cicero which I heartily recommend, though I certainly do not agree with everything they say about it.

Today, a friend gives you warm fuzzies and you give them to your friend. But the concept is the same. Doing as much good to your friends as possible. Of course, the more you do this, the more friends you have, as Cyrus the Great discovered. But HOW to do good to your friends? This is where I get confused. To me, it might be writing down a nice verse in Greek and giving it to someone-----------------who might then wonder WTF is this? I might think it is giving a book to someone----------------who then might be like, 'yeah, right". I might think it is a nice conversation about something but they might want to check their FB status.

In the end, my uncle who is Aspie said to me that the world has everyone on edge, not just aspies. He told me just to consistently BE KIND, smile at people, and even if I can't engage, acknowledge them in some way, in the same way you would like to be acknowledged. Then, they will say HI back.

I know some aspies who do not want to be addressed and I have been there. I have cringed when I had to return a HELLO during certain periods of my life, so I get that for sure. AND I often escape for long periods so I do not have to talk to anyone.

BUT, when I am back in choice mode, I try very hard to keep connections even if it is just being kind and saying hello and letting people know I see them, not Facebook.

OK, that is just my take.

 

[Katleya]

I definitely agree on the fact that things tend to be easier in a bigger city; sure, you might not be in contact with people as easily, but for someone a bit different, the larger number of people tends to dilute the changes of gossip, which, as someone aptly mentioned above, creates social bond. Sometimes I catch myself fantasizing about moving to a quieter, smaller town when I'm older... and then I remember I would be the talk of the (small) town if I did.

Anyways, back to the central topic:
I've never had difficulties making BUDDIES, as in if I identify someone who has something in common, and I feel that interest or characteristic is strong enough to start a conversation, I will have no problem going to them. So I could very well initiate a conversation on the subway over an item that reminds me of a special intetest... meanwhile, I could be working for weeks in the same place as someone else and never utter more than the conventional greetings if I don't feel this thing in common, simply because it wouldn't even cross my mind.
I'm not as good at making friends, and I'm terrible at keeping them. It's like I know the theories of friend maintenance, but I'm somehow at a loss when it comes to apply that knowledge in a practical manner. The fact that I also need long periods away doesn't help, either.

Another thing I've observed over the years:
I've never had a best friend. I don't even know why people feel the need to rank them, is there a friend competition somewhere? But friendship in the outside world seems like I'm making the current friend a special interest, and then that friend is the only friend I will hang out with. My boyfriend used to joke that for 6 months to 2 years, he'll hear the same name all of the freaking time, and then suddenly poof! No further mention of the person, ever. Come to think of it, this almost looks like what most people would do with a romantic partner, except there's no romantic interest involved in my case. I can tell from observation that this is not how most people go about friendship, but I'm not good at balancing the expectations and presence needs of various people at the same time. And when I do make friends, or at least people who are more than buddies, they tend to be such different people to one another that I can't have them in the same room (I've tried once. This is how I found out that one was severely homophobic, which I had never had any reason to suspect, but apparently meeting a tattooed lesbian was a bit much for him, and as I was realizing that we were on the verge of a disaster, another friend arrived dressed as a cat. No, it was not a costume party. I'm telling you, the people I mingle with are too different, they all need their one-on-one time).