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What is it like to believe?

Wolfsage said:
My family at first. Though I already had faith as you read yourself. Overtime things clicked into place like puzzle pieces. Making sense or being proven as true by life itself.
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I think that faith within the family is very helpful for holding people together. Although my family was so totally dysfunctional, I can't imagine faith would have helped. My mother liked sociopaths and the overly "religious" ones are the stuff of nightmares.

Generally Buddhism has proven itself to me. Culturally it is like any other religion with people worshipping Buddha... but on a private level it is very scientific and clicks quite well. Meditation is very powerful and I would feel highly unsettled without it at this point. I don't know if Buddha existed (likely in some person or an amalgam of people). I simply focus on the lessons it teaches as I do with things I find in other religions.

For me, Buddhism is simply logical.
 
Ursus Chainus said:
I think that faith within the family is very helpful for holding people together. Although my family was so totally dysfunctional, I can't imagine faith would have helped. My mother liked sociopaths and the overly "religious" ones are the stuff of nightmares.

Generally Buddhism has proven itself to me. Culturally it is like any other religion with people worshipping Buddha... but on a private level it is very scientific and clicks quite well. Meditation is very powerful and I would feel highly unsettled without it at this point. I don't know if Buddha existed (likely in some person or an amalgam of people). I simply focus on the lessons it teaches as I do with things I find in other religions.

For me, Buddhism is simply logical.
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So you absorb lessons from various Faith's and see if they apply in your life?
 
Wolfsage said:
So you absorb lessons from various Faith's and see if they apply in your life?
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I absorb almost everything from philosophy, literature, scriptures, science etc. I then distill them into basic ideas and compare them with my own sense of things. Actually things look much more complex than they are. Basically most religion is on the same page but in different ways.

I feel that humans have an innate sense of right and wrong. The problem comes when temptation or impulse takes over and an individual does something wrong.

All religion seems to revolve around this. Religious leaders often succumb to temptation. (Seven deadly sins kind of stuff). I do not feel that selfish acts that do not hurt others are wrong. The concept of penance seems to be more of a way that a religion can keep its flock in order and following the rules... and giving them money.

I try to learn from my mistakes, apologize sincerely and listen to that inner sense. I cannot follow religion because I cannot believe. There is no rest for the non-believer!

I find the concept of Imago Dei to be backwards. Almost everything in this world seems backwards and/or upside down to me. "Man" or humans create everything in their image. That image is a mirror. Everything is backwards.
 
Proverbs 3:5
Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.

This it?
 
Wolfsage said:
This part I have trouble with understanding.
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And I have a hard time understanding belief as it is not part of my experience.

I do appreciate this conversation. I do not feel lack of belief is superior to belief. I just think it is interesting that I cannot believe and never really have been able to. I do have a strong spiritual side but it is not religious. Religion require faith. Faith is belief without direct observable or experimental evidence.

Everything is a probability for me. A sentient entity that looks like a man who created the entire universe in 6 days has a very very low probability in my head... about the same as the creator being a turtle carrying the earth on its back.

Evolution has a very high probability as it has predictions that have been met.
 
Ursus Chainus said:
And I have a hard time understanding belief as it is not part of my experience.

I do appreciate this conversation. I do not feel lack of belief is superior to belief. I just think it is interesting that I cannot believe and never really have been able to. I do have a strong spiritual side but it is not religious. Religion require faith. Faith is belief without direct observable or experimental evidence.

Everything is a probability for me. A sentient entity that looks like a man who created the entire universe in 6 days has a very very low probability in my head... about the same as the creator being a turtle carrying the earth on its back.

Evolution has a very high probability as it has predictions that have been met.
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Do you know what faith is? It is trust. We trust in things that have not been proven. That we ourselves have never seen or experienced. Probablities are based on this as well. On information that we trust as in have faith that it is truthful information. To believe in probability is to trust the information that forms it is complete and all factual.
 
Wolfsage said:
Proverbs 3:5
Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.

This it?
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This is interesting to me... so what understanding should I have if it is not my own? I must take another person's word for it OR hear the voice of God in my head. I knew a man who was schizophrenic who told me what God had told him. Is this truly God?

Proverbs then goes on to explain things we should not do... so this means trust in the words of Solomon?
 
Ursus Chainus said:
This is interesting to me... so what understanding should I have if it is not my own? I must take another person's word for it OR hear the voice of God in my head. I knew a man who was schizophrenic who told me what God had told him. Is this truly God?

Proverbs then goes on to explain things we should not do... so this means trust in the words of Solomon?
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Here's another.
Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
 
Wolfsage said:
Do you know what faith is? It is trust. We trust in things that have not been proven. That we ourselves have never seen or experienced. Probablities are based on this as well. On information that we trust as in have faith that it is truthful information. To believe in probability is to trust the information that forms it is complete and all factual.
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Well, I consider this to be a matter of epistemology... not faith. Faith is a belief in something that cannot be proven or disproven.

How I know things is epistemology. I have always found this branch of philosophy to be unhelpful.
 
Wolfsage said:
It is.
1 Corinthians 2:5 That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.
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Well... I don't have faith in either. I would have to believe to have faith. How do we know what God wants us to do?

The Bible can be interpreted in many ways by many "men". Is that interpretation "the wisdom of men"? Does God explain it to us personally?

Thanks for explaining these things to me... I usually got angry responses from people of faith when I asked them. Their goal was to convert me and my goal was to understand the nature of their belief. That always ended up looking like I was mocking them when I was not! I never have the intention of converting anyone to my view. Actually, I really don't have intentions.
 
Ursus Chainus said:
Well... I don't have faith in either. I would have to believe to have faith. How do we know what God wants us to do?

The Bible can be interpreted in many ways by many "men". Is that interpretation "the wisdom of men"? Does God explain it to us personally?

Thanks for explaining these things to me... I usually got angry responses from people of faith when I asked them. Their goal was to convert me and my goal was to understand the nature of their belief. That always ended up looking like I was mocking them when I was not! I never have the intention of converting anyone to my view. Actually, I really don't have intentions.
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James 1:5-8 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all [men] liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.

Matthew 21:22 And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive.

These explain better then I can.
 
There's another one I never forget ,men don't really say there is no G-d ,they say no! to G-d ,its stuck with me .
 
I think that the Bible assumes that all can believe. Also... if wisdom is given to man by God, why not trust the wisdom of men?

I am curious... do you receive all things that you ask for in prayer? I would take that as evidence of a listening God.

Also, why chose Christianity over other religions?
 
Streetwise said:
There's another one I never forget ,men don't really say there is no G-d ,they say no! to G-d ,its stuck with me .
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Well... I certainly would never say no! to G-d. I do not have belief, which means that I do not disbelieve in G-d. I would never say definitively that "there is no G-d" despite what the probability feels like to me.

Again... saying no! to G-d means that you must believe in G-d to say no! to in the first place. This does not account for us who cannot believe. It could, however, invite persecution of non-believers. Basically by not believing, we are saying no! to G-d and are therefore turning our back on him. In some cultures and points in history, this would have been met by execution just as believing in the wrong god would.

So if I am a creation of God and I cannot believe... is my non-belief the will of an omnipotent God?
 
Ursus Chainus said:
Well... I certainly would never say no! to G-d. I do not have belief, which means that I do not disbelieve in G-d. I would never say definitively that "there is no G-d" despite what the probability feels like to me.

Again... saying no! to G-d means that you must believe in G-d to say no! to in the first place. This does not account for us who cannot believe. It could, however, invite persecution of non-believers. Basically by not believing, we are saying no! to G-d and are therefore turning our back on him. In some cultures and points in history, this would have been met by execution just as believing in the wrong god would.

So if I am a creation of God and I cannot believe... is my non-belief the will of an omnipotent God?
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Investigate and research free will !,my memory files seem to be burned out, I stuffed a lot in now it just doesn't work ,I read a lot of holocaust survivors accounts but I can barely remember any names .
 
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