When saying "I'm sorry" doesn't feel like enough

[Ellylldan]

First of all, a big hug to you, Nadador. I feel your pain so much as I have been in this kind of situation when I was afraid of having destroyed something very precious beyond any repair.

I don't know if I am in a position to give any advice, I just want to tell you my experience, hoping you will find something useful for you too.
(I have to warn you that I am not very good at putting my thoughts and feelings into words.. please, bear with me..)

Unfortunately I have meltdowns fairly often. Most of them happen when I feel cornered, mentally, not physically, or when a person demands something from me without being clear about it, I feel like pressure is rising in my brain and I totally lose control.

Once there was a really big and heavy arguing with my husband that turned into a big meltdown for me (a few years ago when I was still unaware of a possibility of being an Aspie) and I said a lot of nearly unforgivable things
and even threw my wedding ring at him. Back then he still was very patient with me and after my most humble apologies he forgave me. Don't know if I will ever forgive myself for it though..
But I didn't learn the lesson and about a year ago I did it again. Again during a very heavy meltdown I threw my wedding ring at him and said horrible words. I could have said in my defence that that time he totally provoked me and he was at fault as well, but whatever was the reason, even if I was on the "right" side, my action was absolutely unacceptable.

Well, after this second time I threw the ring he very angrily told me that apparently we're done for, I went to my "meltdown corner" and cried my eyes out and only after calming down a little I realised all the gravity of the situation. What the hell do I do now?! How do I repair this? Would a "sorry", no matter how sincere, be ever enough?
I was in hell, I knew I did something really awful but in the same time I didn't know how I could keep myself from doing this kind of thing next time. I mean, during major meltdowns this pressure I feel in my head drives me nuts and I throw things just not to start hurting myself. I think both times he said that he doesn't want to have a wife that throws things into the wall and I reacted throwing the ring. It's not an excuse, by any means, and I am very ashamed of myself for doing that. He always says that in those moments I am a totally different person, like a stranger, he doesn't recognise me and he can't wrap his head around how a normally sweet person can turn into this wild enraged animal. It's like a demon-fox in Naruto that takes control over me...

I felt that the same word "sorry" is so meaningless, so weak, but I didn't have a better word and I didn't know what to do. He told me that in order to go on he needed to see that I really realised what I have done, I had to fully understand that it was wrong, first of all for myself. He told me that I have to come to him and tell him something when I am ready and he will see how it will go. I was desperate, how could I ever explain what is going on with me when I myself don't understand it very well?! He replied that there is too much pride in me that ruins everything, that my defensive reaction is out of my pride. All the night I was thinking about it, I didn't think I was still too proud while asking forgiveness.. He told me he sees in my eyes even when my voice is humble. I spent a night thinking and trying to understand what he meant. I looked very deep, so deep into myself, and I understood that I have to trust him. I had to admit to myself that I am not in control, it's an illusion and I needed help. I needed his help to be myself, to stay myself, not the demon-fox.. Probably i am not making any sense, I'm sorry. But all I can say, it helped. When I came to him, and told him what I was thinking about, quietly, how I came to this point and my pride was non-existent, he told me that finally his wife was back. And then I told him everything I felt, like making a tour through a meltdown, trying to make him understand that my actions were not out of intention to hurt him, that I would have avoided it all if I had control over it.

He said that he very much appreciated the fact I came to him myself (usually he is the one to initiate all the serious talks, I just tend to close myself in my world). And he made me notice that in this talk I didn't say the word "sorry" even once, yet I could reach his heart just the same.

I'm sorry, I wrote way too much, I know it's very personal, maybe even too personal to share on a forum like this. I just felt that if I tell you my experience you could somehow feel that you are not alone, and I hope it will help you somehow...
If you have any questions, please, feel free to ask. I wish you well.

 

[Nadador]

Hmm. Well, I went. Just about on my knees, I was. Tears, the whole production.

We only talked briefly. Adam says we'll be all right [I hope he means it], but feels that he needs to sort things out on his own for a couple of days. He didn't seem keen on explaining what that meant, which of course is terrifying. He asked the questions he needs answers to most: What happened, and why? It didn't make sense to him that I don't know. He reckons I should have thought it over before I came...I tried to explain it's now how I work, but he wasn't in the mood for a lesson. He seemed very guarded, perhaps even a bit afraid of me. I felt like a monster.

I just don't understand how I was capable of this. I'm gentle as a kitten by my nature. You could very well call me an outright pacifist. Haven't melted down for nearly fifty bloody years...it's been a point of pride for me. And I don't remember it being at all like this was.

Adam wanted to know what that was he saw in my eyes when I was going at him...I could only say "nothing", but I don't think he understood. There was nothing at all in my eyes. I was gone behind this terrible rage. But it really wasn't proper rage. I've been enraged, and this was different. I'm sure I looked and sounded very angry, but I felt nothing, like I was far away watching something very bad happening, taking it all in very passively, and it wasn't me doing it. The real me was overtaken and I was locked out of myself. How on Earth does one explain that to an NT so it makes sense? Thank God I know I'm a bloody Aspie or I'd be driving to hospital about now. I still feel like I'm going bloody mad. Who the hell am I?

How am I safe around Adam now? How the hell do I assure him I won't hurt him again if I don't feel sure myself?

Sorry I'm rambling like an idiot. I obviously want your help, but I'm not not clear-headed enough to know what I need, or to know if I've explained it right. I feel this incredible urgency to fix everything. It's overwhelming. I feel helpless.

 

[Nadador]

Thanks, everybody, for you responses. It's very good to see I have support here. I've known it, but now I see it.

...(edit) And foolishly I thought such contrition would be sufficient to get her back. But she left and NEVER looked back.

I'm sorry you've got that to carry around with you, Judge. I have to wonder how much knowing you had AS would have helped, at the bottom line. It might have helped you make sense of it all, but from what I saw today, I'm not sure it would have helped them. How can we say we aren't responsible for what we say and do in those moments? One of the cornerstones of relationships is personal responsibility.

I'm desperately hoping it will help that my partner is male. I don't know. He's male, but not like me. It's suddenly come into very sharp focus that we're very different, in ways that defy proper explanation. I don't even think there are words for some of this. Certainly not in English. It won't help Adam, but I've been trolling my mental cache of indigenous languages to find the closest approximate term. All the ones I come up with relate to trance, or possession by evil spirits. I can't very well put it off on those.

After a decade I have decided to give it one last go, this time knowing I'm and aspie. Currently I am reading every book I can find on aspie/NT relationships in the hope that I can understand better how the whole thing works. I certainly don't want to go down the roads I've travelled so often before, so, I have made it my special interest and I will damn well solve this personal puzzle.

Luckily, my partner understands me better than I understand myself, so I am jumping off that cliff and learning to fly.

I know that girl well enough...you won't be able to push her off her axis, you lucky b*stard. That's half the equation, right there. It's not at all fair, but the other person matters fifty percent or better in this situation. I'm learning that very quickly.

Good luck my friend.. I may be tapping you for advice myself soon, if that's ok

I think Harrison should set up a bloody clinic. Give it a few years and there will be a book coming from him on NT/AS relationships, just watch.

Three things. Communication, communication and communication.

You've been with someone for a good long while, haven't you? How do you find words for things there aren't words for? How does your partner react when you go off the hinges, even in small ways?

Let Adam know that you are fully present for him. Communicate these things:
1.) Darling, I am here for you. Fully present for you.
2.) Darling, I see you there. I am truly seeing you, listening with my full being.
3.) Darling, I know you suffer. That is why I am here for you. (Just acknowledging his pain, and being there, can help heal some of it)
4.) Darling, I suffer. I am trying my best. Please help me.

Thank you so much, Love. That was a wonderful outline. I rather missed #4, unfortunately. That was too hard to say. I couldn't imagine he'd want to hear I was at all a victim or needed anything from him in this situation. I'll have to get that in once he's ready to talk. Excellent advice, as always.

Natador...the smartest people I know make the stupidest mistakes
Many here hold you in high esteem in your normal context,don't let us down

It is proper to regret what you have done,but more impressive if you can fix it

Your assignment from me is to do so in the best manner you can

Thanks, Nitro. I appreciate that. I guess we'll see how impressive I am soon enough. Not feeling all that brilliant now.

...(edit) Was it really just a bunch of little things that can be all dealt with easily, and a simple case of "straw that broke the camel's back"? Or was it just a little thing to mask a much bigger problem eating at you?

Personally, I'd give him a few days. He's probably pretty shook up right now, if not maybe a little mad too. Then very timidly and meekly, ask if you two can sit down and try to discuss it. If he launches some personal attacks, don't take it personally.

Sorry you've gone through that with your mate, Ashe. We're all a fine mess, aren't we?

I think I was very stupid, these past few weeks. I know I can't handle too much at once. I had the holidays, my bloody viva voce, and I guess really, the engagement was bigger than I realised. I thought the proposal was just a happy thing, but now I'm thinking it brought its own brand of stress to the mix. I timed things all wrongly. Far too much in a very short span.

I've got four and a half days to right this ship, then it's three weeks with little to no contact. I just don't want to go off and leave him with this hanging unresolved. I may not have a choice. It will make for a very long trip that won't do the things I need it to do to get me back in line.

You make a very good point, about how we first met, even if you were kind of joking. His first encounter with me was a meltdown of sorts. I'll have to see what I might do with that. Thank you.

...(edit) Don't explain what you did. Explanations sound like excuses. You did what you did. Explain what you understand about its effect on Adam. The format goes like this: ...(edit)

Dealing with the consequences is an ordeal that will bring out the best in you and remind Adam of what he loves about you--and you, what you respect about yourself.

Thank you, A4H. [Sorry for the abbreviation, if it doesn't suit you]. I hope you're right about that second bit I quoted ^^.

I winced when I read you'd been on the other end of a brute like me. I hope you've come to peace with it. I'm sorry, on behalf of all men who act like animals, for whatever reason. I truly am.

You lesson was very useful. I'm glad I followed my instincts and put this to the crowd. Adam and I got stuck on "Can I make this right? If I can, if I may, how do I make this right?" At the moment, the only path to making it right will start with my answering his questions about what happened, and why it did. I don't know how long that might take. I wonder if there's a workaround.

First of all, a big hug to you, Nadador. I feel your pain so much as I have been in this kind of situation when I was afraid of having destroyed something very precious beyond any repair.

...(edit) I feel like pressure is rising in my brain and I totally lose control.

Thank you for sharing your story in such detail, Ellylldan. I'm humbled by your willingness to go to such lengths to cast some light on my situation. It did all make sense, and it gave me a lot to think about.

That bit you said that I've bolded is perfect. That's what it was...but the final trigger of the moment was something so insignificant. Things must have been building up much more than I thought, and certainly I never thought I would ever go from shutdown to full meltdown. Part of my shock once I settled down last night was about not understanding how a tiny little thing triggered such an explosion. You all have me realising it was only the last straw.

I never should have tried to keep Adam with me when I was in shutdown. I've always sent him home before. You mentioned feeling mentally cornered, just before that bit I put in bold...I deleted it because it didn't seem quite as relevant, but clearly it was. Me having Adam with me when he shouldn't have been created a corner. He didn't put me in it. I unwittingly invited him to box me in. Your post was so very helpful. You have no idea.

How did you deal with your emotional estrangement with your husband while you sorted yourself out? What did you do? I assume you shared a residence...Adam and I still live separately, and I can't imagine feeling such distance while in the very same house.

 

[wyverary]

I don't have the experience or keen insight that others do, but if Adam has asked for a little space, you should grant him that. Next time you talk, offer an apology...and think over that apology carefully. (Forgive me if this has already been mentioned) apologies should NEVER be about the one making the apology. Just express that you realize that YOU made HIM feel the way that he did, and don't bring your own explanations/excuses into it unless he specifically asks. But you and everyone here probably already know that. *wyv now slinks back into his little cubby-hole*

[edit; I just saw A4H's response. I need to pay more attention to these things. Back into my jidey-hole.]

 

[Aspergirl4hire]

A4H is fine! Maybe I'll adopt it.

You are not "a brute." He (the man in my story), however, was. Here's how I know.

My relationship ended because S tried to take control of the reconciliation process, and it was all about what he wanted and when he wanted it. He couldn't believe that I could believe he could be violent--when I was cowering in the kitchen corner, he was between me and the door, screaming, bared teeth, scarlet with rage. Fists raised over his head. I don't remember if there was anything in them.

Nothing stood between him hammering me into the floor except for what stood with my tears in my eyes when he stared. When he saw reflected in them what he could not see himself, he wilted. He immediately blamed me for believing that he could ever hurt me. What was I going to believe, him, or my lyin' eyes?

There's a blank in the memory. The next thing I know is that that night, driving home, I came awfully close to driving off a bridge, not because I intended to, but because I couldn't stop shaking and crying. I remember howling at the moonlight glittering on the river.

We hadn't been drinking, and neither of us did drugs.

And then, the next day. He called. He came over. I would only talk through the door. There was email and voicemail. I felt harassed, because I hadn't had time away to deal with my fear and ask myself what I wanted, or process what happened and get some perspective. It's all about what he wants, when he wants it. When is it about what I want? And where is the "we?"

It had become like a predator and prey relationship, him always chasing. So I outran him.
------------------------

It's forty years later. My son's girlfriend broke up with him, and he couldn't get over it. They'd been together for two years. (They're both NTs, so far as I know.) I listened to him cry and I wanted to weep myself. Instead, I asked as softly as I could, "Do you think she is a person, or a possession?"

About a week later my son said to me, "Mom, I thought a lot about that."

I said, "If you love something, set it free. If it comes back to you, it's yours."

-------------------------

So...forgiveness is also a process. It can't happen without acknowledgment (which is why the apology formula looks the way it does). I struggled to forgive S. The effort taught me that forgiveness and residual anger play tag: I think I've forgiven, and a few days later I was angry again. This is not an aspie thing. This is a part of how anger and forgiveness work in us as people.

Please accept my apologies for the long reply...I could not empathize with your pain without going into my own. It was worth it for me. Please disregard what wasn't useful. The only way I know how to love people is to give them stories.

 

[Warmheart]

Nadador, I am going through a scary period of unpredictable meltdowns and shutdowns, too. It was only this bad in my early 20s, from adolescent hormones. Now it's the wacky hormones of MentalPause. How about getting a CBC (complete blood chemistry), full thyroid panel, and general hormone profile from your doctor? We tend to think men only have testosterone spikes, but lots of hormones can be having funky blood levels, such as thyroid, etc. Maybe this is worth a check?

Another factor to make a sweet, even-tempered aspie prone to meltdowns and shutdowns seems to be emotional stuff. It may be long-buried trauma re-emerging or it can be something new. Anything new with your job, relationship, living situation? Or, is something soon about to change? Emotional stuff can make everything in life irritate to the point that we are walking around feeling raw and overloaded. Anyway, just something else to consider... or not.

What did Adam see in your eyes? A violent, primal, frantic surge of energy, with an innocent, helpless boy dragged along behind it. Once the spark ignites into a sudden roaring blaze, we watch the event helplessly from far away, unable to do anything about it but be a spectator, our body coursing with a kind of terrible electricity. Brain on fire, we won't feel safe or well again until the inferno has raged itself out. Then, we're wrung dry and at the same time, still feeling "electrified" to some degree. And still raw, even when fogged and confused about it all. You never intended to harm or frighten your sweetheart. Both of you have my compassion.

You need to feel safe about yourself. You know you are a kind, sweet, gentle soul. Maybe some guidance in how to identify your own stressors, triggers, and then to learn how better to read your body's signals, could be of help? Might you have an ASD therapist available to you? This may comfort Adam too, if an ASD-trained therapist can help make you more aware ahead of time for when things are getting so meltdown-y.

I know you have a work trip. My positive thoughts and prayers will be beaming out your way. Please take extra care of yourself right now. Hot baths, extra stimming, whatever helps you recover. We are here for you, dear Nadador. (((Hugs)))

 

[AsheSkyler]

Hmm. Well, I went. Just about on my knees, I was. Tears, the whole production.

We only talked briefly. Adam says we'll be all right [I hope he means it], but feels that he needs to sort things out on his own for a couple of days. He didn't seem keen on explaining what that meant, which of course is terrifying. He asked the questions he needs answers to most: What happened, and why? It didn't make sense to him that I don't know. He reckons I should have thought it over before I came...I tried to explain it's now how I work, but he wasn't in the mood for a lesson. He seemed very guarded, perhaps even a bit afraid of me. I felt like a monster.

I just don't understand how I was capable of this. I'm gentle as a kitten by my nature. You could very well call me an outright pacifist. Haven't melted down for nearly fifty bloody years...it's been a point of pride for me. And I don't remember it being at all like this was.

Adam wanted to know what that was he saw in my eyes when I was going at him...I could only say "nothing", but I don't think he understood. There was nothing at all in my eyes. I was gone behind this terrible rage. But it really wasn't proper rage. I've been enraged, and this was different. I'm sure I looked and sounded very angry, but I felt nothing, like I was far away watching something very bad happening, taking it all in very passively, and it wasn't me doing it. The real me was overtaken and I was locked out of myself. How on Earth does one explain that to an NT so it makes sense? Thank God I know I'm a bloody Aspie or I'd be driving to hospital about now. I still feel like I'm going bloody mad. Who the hell am I?

How am I safe around Adam now? How the hell do I assure him I won't hurt him again if I don't feel sure myself?

Sorry I'm rambling like an idiot. I obviously want your help, but I'm not not clear-headed enough to know what I need, or to know if I've explained it right. I feel this incredible urgency to fix everything. It's overwhelming. I feel helpless.

In some bizarre way, it makes sense to me. Your job is terribly stressful, is it not? Because of your station (boss? overseer??) if you so much as blink the wrong way you get irrevocably fired. Growing up with your diagnosed stuff was bound to have all its stresses with teasings, misunderstandings, and judgings. Visiting abroad has lead to some amusing but undeniably hurtful and irritating cultural misunderstandings. And holidays and exams drives just about anybody up the wall. Being a little grouchy thing myself I don't fully understand a true pacifist, so I automatically assume most anger is repressed and bottled up to some secret place. Then with all those major things happening at once, the cork just kinda came off the top and you blew like an overdue train whistle. And if suppressed and suffocated long enough, some emotions almost turn into a split-personality who demand room to breathe, and will take over if necessary. I may be way, way, way off base. Even Aspies know themselves better than random online couch therapists who have known anger issues.

Adam may be simply processing the relationship status, or he could be re-analyzing you. There have been a few cases when I've dealt with bipolar people I had to seriously re-evaluate what part was actually them as a person, what was just a byproduct of their condition and a bad history that potentially made them bipolar in the first place, and where their responsibility to their self-control should lie. Sometimes you take for granted how normal a person seems until their problems reassert themselves, and sometimes you give 'em more slack than you should. You wonder if this was a random outburst and you should be expected to be treated like this regularly, or if this was something preventable that you can get a handle on so it doesn't happen again. You wonder if you did something wrong to bring it on, or if you were in the wrong place at the wrong time. And if all of the above apply, it makes for many days of analyzing where all the lines fall in each category and arguing with yourself if you figured it out right and you're not blaming or excusing yourself too much to make a good call. And then sometimes it's just outside forces screwing with you just out of sight so you have no idea what's going on. After the one time I was the aggressor, I developed a new hatred for the DMV and their terrible paperwork standards, along with a renewed dislike for a certain meddling woman that's done her best to break up me and my husband. Sometimes you're BOTH the victim regardless of who just tried to rip who's head off.

Maybe it was a long overdue stress bomb? Maybe it was just recent stress of the holidays and exams? Maybe there were some of the usual and expected nuisances of being with another person were getting to you more than you realized? Maybe something's been tampering with you two that you're not aware of? If you think it'd help, just start writing a list of all possibilities with their qualifiers and disqualifiers of why they were a possible cause.

Sorry you've gone through that with your mate, Ashe. We're all a fine mess, aren't we?

I think I was very stupid, these past few weeks. I know I can't handle too much at once. I had the holidays, my bloody viva voce, and I guess really, the engagement was bigger than I realised. I thought the proposal was just a happy thing, but now I'm thinking it brought its own brand of stress to the mix. I timed things all wrongly. Far too much in a very short span.

I've got four and a half days to right this ship, then it's three weeks with little to no contact. I just don't want to go off and leave him with this hanging unresolved. I may not have a choice. It will make for a very long trip that won't do the things I need it to do to get me back in line.

You make a very good point, about how we first met, even if you were kind of joking. His first encounter with me was a meltdown of sorts. I'll have to see what I might do with that. Thank you.

I'm reminded of what some old married couples say when they complain about young people getting divorced. "It ain't the smooth sailin' that tests yer riggin', it's the storms!" Or something to that effect. And I quite like the quote A4H brought along too. Learning patience and to give somebody space was a pretty hard lesson for me to learn, for sure! The person vs. possession is always good food for thought, the lines get muddled when you find somebody you're comfortable with. You don't want to let them go because other people can be so blasted annoying to sort through and find another good person you're comfortable with.

Three weeks could work very well. You could leave it open-ended I guess. Offer an apology, understand if it's bad, and ask to simply talk when you come back with no strings attached? At least, I hope that'd be a good option. Being calm and analytical freaks out a few people after big events.

 

[Warmheart]

AsheSkyler, you're really brave, and very good at explaining things. I love reading your posts. You always make me think, and you have a way of plainly putting complex matters that makes it all seem so understandable. Thank you for being here.

 

[Grumpy Cat]

Howdy. It's me. Nadador, you know I really like you and that's why I have to tell you how I really think and feel about this coming from an NT's point of view (I'm also a woman so Adam may act a little differently, Idk). If I was with ANYONE (not just Aspie) and they did that, I would be out of there and never come back. I say this because if it happened that quick one would never know when a person would lose it like that again and he doesn't even know what he did to make you so angry. You mentioned that you said things about his "NTness" which he can't change. I'm sure he is extremely hurt and scared cause this is a side to you that he has never seen and now he's supposed to devote his entire life to you and a marriage not knowing what he is getting himself into. Unless you can say for sure that it would never happen again (I don't know if that's possible since you don't have an explanation of why it happened), a person can go too far and there just isn't any way to put back a relationship the way it was. I don't know about Aspies, but that memory would always be with me and I would be on my guard for a very long time. I'd give him some space for awhile - a long while. I really don't know what to say. I like you both and I don't want to choose sides, but I just know he's gotta be feeling a lot of things - shock, scared, anger just to name a few. No easy fix with this one with words - it's going to have to be by actions and time.

I want to add something here to everyone - any sort of physical hitting or shoving is not ok in any relationship. And people are going to say things, but whatever comes out of your mouth can't be taken back and you have to live with the consequences. Verbal abuse can stay for a lifetime - I know that from experience.

 

[Grumpy Cat]

It's me again.i was thinking what I would have to have in order to stay in the relationship and so far I came up with these:

1) Anger management classes and going to a couples therapist that handles AS as a specialty. And I don't mean just a few weeks - for me it would have to be ongoing.

2) Wedding called off and engagement restarted until however long it took me to feel comfortable again.

That's all I can think of right now. I just know words wouldn't help in this case for me. I'd have to have proof it would never happen again and that's where the therapist would come in to help both Aspie and NT understand what each other is feeling.

 

[Ellylldan]

I just don't understand how I was capable of this. I'm gentle as a kitten by my nature. You could very well call me an outright pacifist. Haven't melted down for nearly fifty bloody years...it's been a point of pride for me. And I don't remember it being at all like this was.

In this regard I would like to share something my husband told me. He’s an NT but not very typical in his point of view of the world, and he understands me more than I understand myself and that’s why I know I should trust him.

He says that I always have to remember that I actually am capable of this kind of thing. Even if normally I am like a kitten (btw, the pet name he uses for me is Kittah, hehe), there is always a demon-fox inside waiting for his moment. And it’s not just me, everyone has their inner demon, even if he never came out yet, for some people he will never show himself but it doesn’t mean he doesn’t exist. I believe every person had at least one moment when they had a thought (at least) that terrified them and they just hid that thought very deep and tried to never think about it again - this could be their demon moving in his sleep… Maybe.

I think (please, don’t hate me for saying this, try to understand), the fact you made it “a point of pride” for yourself, that’s where you slipped. It’s like somehow you neglected your real self, you concentrated on an image of yourself you thought you were. I know, it’s not really like this because I very much understood what you meant, I’m just trying to say you didn’t notice some hidden dark part of you because you used to think it didn’t exist… But it’s still you. Is it too confusing what I’m saying? Sorry, if it is..

Anyway, what I am trying to say is that in order to live a life without regrets we have to find a way to live peacefully with our demon. And the first step would be acknowledging his exitence. It’s especially important for aspies, I think. All the pressure and stress build up very fast and thinking that we can handle it and we’re in control can be very dangerous, because the line is very thin and we may not notice the moment we cross it. One second we think we’re still handling it, and the next one we’re out of control…

I only know about AS for a few months and I am still learning new things about myself, and I’m trying to learn to deal with my biggest problem that is susceptibility to meltdowns, that used to be the most destructive force in our marriage. If before I thought that maybe I wasn’t just trying hard enough, now, with the beginning of understanding the way I function, I am no more fighting with windmills but I am trying to build something with what I have.

I know, it looks very theoretical, but the practical part would be different for everyone, I guess.. I mean, I see all this as a base that would (probably) work for any person, not important Aspie or NT.

And here is very important the help of the partner. Communication is very important. I failed at it many times but I’m trying to learn. We need to study each other, to know each other’s limits and triggers, and strong sides too.

Well, on practical side it all can work in different ways for different people. For me the most important part is to realise when I’m approaching the “red zone”. And my husband is helping me here. I can very easily miss it but he knows that when I’m more emotional than usual means I’m more sensitive to everything, both good and bad, and thus more vulnerable. So, being over-excited, even if it is a happy excitement, can be potentially dangerous. Or when I’m close to a shutdown (that is a more rare thing for me), I have to double my guard. I have to learn the signs and do my best to prevent a disaster. Of course, there are things that my husband can do to make it easier for me, and it's great when he can. But i am trying very hard to make it work even without his help, because there always can be a moment when he's overwhelmed himself and simply doesn't have inner resources to support me, and I don't want to fail him. I'm still in the beginning of the road though and it's a very hard work. I cannot know for sure if I can actually make it work, but I believe it's important to have faith and keep trying.
Am I making any sense here?

Probably you or someone else will not agree with what I am saying, and I'm not claiming it to the the "Absolute Truth". It's just a point of view and everyone is free to accept it or disagree with it.

So far it seems to work for me and my husband, this idea. Of course, I still miss the sings often and still meltdowns happen but I see the progress and I see that we’re actually going somewhere now. And, counting that it’s been just a few months, I think it’s not too bad. I started to believe we actually can make it as a couple, even if there is still a lot to work on.

I’m sorry if it’s too confusing what I wrote, I don’t know how to express it differently, I already spent over two hours writing and editing it, hehe.. I hope you understand what I am trying to say..

I also apologise for the outrageously long post. It seems I just can't keep it short, sorry.

Oh, I forgot to answer your question...

How did you deal with your emotional estrangement with your husband while you sorted yourself out? What did you do? I assume you shared a residence...Adam and I still live separately, and I can't imagine feeling such distance while in the very same house.

Yes, this can be very limiting. We share an apartment so in the hard times we just go to different rooms, or he goes out sometimes. I have my "meltdown corner" where I curl up and heal my wounds and think of solutions. But I am very often home alone and it's good for me. Sometimes I go for a walk to clear my head but we live in a very uncomfortable area for it: we're slightly out of town but the roads around here don't have sidewalks and almost everything out of the roads is someone's private property... So my corner became my "cave of recharging".

 

[Ellylldan]

I want to add something.

It’s very important that you keep loving yourself, Nadador. Don’t let yourself fall into the hell of self-loathing, it will only bring suffering to you and your loved one. I’m speaking out of experience and believe me, it’s a very painful experience. In fact, I am still learning to love myself more, because it turns out the old wisdom was right: you can’t love someone else if you don’t love yourself (or something like this..).

You don’t have to forget what you did but don’t hate yourself for it, find a way to forgive yourself, let it become a lesson for you, let it help you grow. You can't expect someone to forgive you and love you if you think yourself you're not worth forgiving and loving, right?

I'm reminded of what some old married couples say when they complain about young people getting divorced. "It ain't the smooth sailin' that tests yer riggin', it's the storms!"

What Ashe said, it’s so true. Love is the strongest force, don't underestimate it. Yeah, I needed 6 years of marriage to understand what love is and i’m still learning! Give Adam all the time he needs but make him feel you’re there, always. I mean, let your heart speak, not your brain. He will hear you, he will feel you. Let him read what you wrote here, if you wish. Just before you talk to him, make sure you are in peace with yourself and your heart is pure. It could be painful because he is hurt and he might not be soft with you in that moment but bear with it, stand it, leave your pride behind the door, it will worth it in the end.

I wish you and Adam sooo well. I so hope you will find a way to deal with the difficulties of life together.
May the Force be with you!

 

[Warmheart]

I'm just sending positive thoughts today. I've had you and Adam both on my mind, and in my heart. I'll continue sending positive, healing energy your way. You both mean a lot.

 

[phoe]

If he doesn't understand all the baggage that comes with loving an aspie, it might be worth asking him to subscribe to this forum, so he can take his own time to read and understand all the weird and wonderful ways it can affect us. If he happens to read this thread, he'll know how much he means to you, and that you don't want to lose him, but also give him insight.

Tell him you love him dearly, and you're distraught at the idea that you might lose him, but there are some triggers (which aren't always obvious) that might send you into a spiral. It's not that you want to hurt him or anything, it's just that you can't cope, for whatever reason, with a particular sensory input sometimes.

Some examples from my (and wife's) lives include certain pitches of sound, or specific sounds (the noise of a spoon on a cup is like an explosion to me for some reason), certain movements (I jiggle my leg when anxious, both when really anxious) mean my wife has to put her hand up to try to block my legs from her line of sight - or just to move to another room, the look of certain foods can make me feel physically sick (stews, any soup other than tomato (!)), being in a crowded or noisy place, busy supermarket, the vast range of variety of stuff in supermarkets has sometimes been enough to fry my brain...

 

[Slithytoves]

I have to tell you how I really think and feel about this coming from an NT's point of view (I'm also a woman so Adam may act a little differently, Idk). If I was with ANYONE (not just Aspie) and they did that, I would be out of there and never come back. I say this because if it happened that quick one would never know when a person would lose it like that again and he doesn't even know what he did to make you so angry.

I'm NT, too, and have become involved with Harrison knowing that a meltdown like Nadador's is a very real possibility. It may even be more likely, because unlike Nadador's one-off situation, Harrison has admitted right here that this has happened to him before in the context of a relationship.

I personally don't think it's fair to lump Aspies and NTs together, in terms of how I would respond as a partner. If an NT partner went apesh*t on me, he'd be out the door in a heartbeat. But in the case of an Aspie, a breakdown like this can't be controlled, and really, not even necessarily anticipated by the Aspie him/herself. What they do in that state isn't "them", and what they say isn't an uninhibited moment of truth-telling. They are on autopilot, and in their minds, defending their lives. That's what the meltdown is about: It's an insidious build-up of stress that suddenly reaches critical mass and becomes a feeling of impending doom, setting off an intense flight-or-fight response. At that point, fairly or not, it's actually the NT (or other Aspie) partner's responsibility to help minimize the potential damage. That's part of being the partner of an Aspie, being educated and prepared. If Harrison were to go into meltdown, I would be responsible to get out of his way and let him rant or leave without aggravating him: not taking it personally, not trying to intervene, not asking questions, and not making him feel trapped. I'll say this one again: not taking it personally. Even if the meltdown is ultimately aimed at me, it's not necessarily about me at all. If I can't believe that, I'd better not fall in love with an Aspie man.

You can't be sure it will never happen again. An Aspie partner can't promise that, nor should it be asked of them to do so. The next step after meltdown is process of understanding, reconnection and healing, not an interrogation or list of demands. Both parties are victims of the incident, not just the partner who caught the fallout. Just read Nadador's posts here if you need evidence of that.

1) Anger management classes and going to a couples therapist that handles AS as a specialty. And I don't mean just a few weeks - for me it would have to be ongoing.

2) Wedding called off and engagement restarted until however long it took me to feel comfortable again.

I'm not trying to rip you to shreds here, but anger management classes will do nothing whatsoever to prevent or modulate a meltdown. It's not regular rage that's at issue. Couple's therapy is helpful for the understanding, reconnection, and healing, but I don't see why it would need to be ongoing, unless one or both partners can't get past what happened.

I can only speak for myself, but if I accepted a proposal from an Aspie man, I wouldn't call off an engagement or wedding over a meltdown unless my partner did me bodily harm. Even then, I'd have to think long and hard before acting. I'm not blind or stupid. If I know my partner has Asperger's, I should have the sense to do my reading and know what I'm getting into; including the possibility of a serious meltdown, however remote, as it was in Nadador's case. I bear as much responsibility for the relationship as my Aspie partner, for better and for worse.

In case anyone is thinking it: I don't blame Adam for anything he may have done or not done in the moment while Nadador was freaking out. The first experience is going to be a shock, no matter how informed you may be (and I know Adam is well-informed). There is no dress rehearsal for this stuff. All you can do is read all you can, then you just gotta learn as you go.

 

[Judge]

But in the case of an Aspie, a breakdown like this can't be controlled, and really, not even necessarily anticipated by the Aspie him/herself. What they do in that state isn't "them", and what they say isn't an uninhibited moment of truth-telling. They are on autopilot, and in their minds, defending their lives. That's what the meltdown is about: It's an insidious build-up of stress that suddenly reaches critical mass and becomes a feeling of impending doom, setting off an intense flight-or-fight response.

God bless you for such understanding. Well done!

 

[Harrison]

God bless you for such understanding.

Now you know why I love her

 

[Judge]

Now you know why I love her

Absolutely. What a rare, precious commodity this level of understanding amounts to.

 

[phoe]

That was a very good point Slithy made - he needs to understand it wasn't his fault, and it's not entirely your fault either.

My wife (undiagnosed aspie) once came with me to counselling, and for all these years (we've been married since 1993) she thought she was doing something wrong for it to set me off on a meltdown / shutdown / verbal rant etc. - the therapist told her straight, it's "NOTHING SHE'D DONE WRONG" - cue lots of tears as that dam of guilt she'd been feeling over the problems I was having coping came tumbling down :-(

 

[AsheSkyler]

AsheSkyler, you're really brave, and very good at explaining things. I love reading your posts. You always make me think, and you have a way of plainly putting complex matters that makes it all seem so understandable. Thank you for being here.

D'aw, you make me blush. Many thanks. Most of the time I feel I over-complicate and over-think stuff. And now I'm trying to figure out how to return a compliment that doesn't sound fake or anything... Aw heck with it, your username suits you and we do good having somebody so gentle around.

That's what the meltdown is about: It's an insidious build-up of stress that suddenly reaches critical mass and becomes a feeling of impending doom, setting off an intense flight-or-fight response. At that point, fairly or not, it's actually the NT (or other Aspie) partner's responsibility to help minimize the potential damage. That's part of being the partner of an Aspie, being educated and prepared. If Harrison were to go into meltdown, I would be responsible to get out of his way and let him rant or leave without aggravating him: not taking it personally, not trying to intervene, not asking questions, and not making him feel trapped.

You can't be sure it will never happen again. An Aspie partner can't promise that, nor should it be asked of them to do so. The next step after meltdown is process of understanding, reconnection and healing, not an interrogation or list of demands.

Heh, imagining Harrison in an explosive meltdown is about the same as imagining Nabador in his recent one. I'm still debating joining the tinfoil hat club and building radars for those alien body snatchers who took him away and did the damage in his place!

Your second point is something I failed at explaining to a person I tangled with recently. (Not my husband.) Can't go into much details because I'm still mad myself, but fighting is just a part of life. It happens, it's natural. You just learn to roll with it, try to keep it reigned in so something disastrous doesn't happen (or irritating, like patching holes in the walls), and then after you've had time to cool off you go and see if it's something you can prevent and do any making up that's needed. And the cycle repeats. Sometimes handling is more important than prevention. Like tornadoes! Can't prevent 'em, might as well learn how to handle 'em.