Why do non-autistics lie to their kids?

[H47137]

Hello,

I manage a nursery, and have worked with children for 12 years, and have a husband with ASD. I feel I have a relative good understanding of this.

One of the most important things for children to develop at a young age is self esteem. This helps build them up to be confident in life. By nurturing their self esteem we are helping them become more confident in many areas of their life. These things include decision making, social interaction, bouncing back after difficulties, trying new things and many more.

The reason parents may appear to lie to children is to avoid damaging their confidence. Young children do not have the ability to understand that they may be able to practice and make a picture better. The best way I can describe it is to try and think of how non ASD people try to understand things from your point of view. You need to understand things from a child's point of view. A child may have spent 5 minutes on what looks like to you as a scribble, but children lack concept of time early on and to them it may have seemed like a long time. They would view they squiggle as a tree and hearts for example. You may not be able to see this but they can, that is their representation of a tree and some hearts at that moment in their life.

As children get older, you them may be able to become more honest with them to get them to work harder towards their goals and gaining their best potential.
As for young children it is best to nurture them and bring as much positive energy around them as possible, which includes fabricating the truth if it means the child can be confident and independent in their own choices.

I would recommend researching about the importance of children's well being and seeing things from a child's point of view.

I have attached the early years development matters. This is what all practitioners will follow on helping get the best start in life for children. It is a lot to read but If you feel like you would love the be the best parent ever, then reading some of this may help.

 

[onlything]

Lying to give support to a child is, at times, understandable from the emotional if not logical perspective. However, lying to make the child feel bad or to make them behave in some way is not. Seemingly small things can really hurt children, since they are too young to have built 'defences'.

For example, there is this type of lies that I cannot really accept:
- If you behave like [x], the big bad [y] will come and eat/hurt/[z] you!
Like, you know that the child believes you, right? Why are you trying to scare them like that?

 

[SunnyDay16]

The majority of parents who tell white lies to their children mean well. Extremely young children aren't emotionally equipped to deal with criticism. Even with older kids, the criticism should be justified criticism and you have to be careful how you "present" the criticism because the wrong words can really mess a child up. If a child presents a song or a drawing as a gift, it shouldn't be critiqued because it is not meant to be an objective display of a child's piano playing or drawing skill. It's just doing a nice thing for the ones you love. To critique it is basically telling your child, "I don't appreciate you showing your love to me because this isn't good enough."

It's like when somone gives you a gift you don't like. Even if you may not like the gift, they still took the time to search for it and buy it because they thought you would enjoy it. You say you like it anyway regardless of how you feel about it because you don't want to hurt the other person's feelings because at the end of the day they spent the time and money to show affection for the one they loved.

There are plenty of parents out there who nitpick and critique every little aspect of their kids' lives, even over things their kids can't control. Then they wonder why their kids end up with all sorts of self-esteem and perfectionism issues. People who are overly critical are that way because they are projecting their own self-esteem and self-adequacy issues, so it's usually done for their own selfish reasons.

 

[Joel's Hear]

I have no idea how terrible your original post was But I like your edited version and agree with many of the concepts.

 

[Ylva]

I'd have to say, regarding your examples, that it's because NTs (and maybe all allistics) mainly communicate to manipulate emotions, not to inform.

 

[Tesseract]

They lie because they are all, in my view, what could be termed "high-functioning sociopaths". They also allow themselves to be dictated to by their emotions, so that is why it "logically makes no sense". Trying to understand how en-tees think is futile and pointless. One would have better luck trying to figure out the most obstinate problem in quantum mechanics whilst being afflicted with dyscalculia.

 

[Tesseract]

One day you may understand unconditional love.

To put a child down no matter how poorly they have performed might be a crushing blow to their soul.

Or it might encourage them to do better next time. A "crushing blow" is just a tad melodramatic, don't you think? In any case, sometimes a "crushing blow" is exactly what a person needs in order to get them to actually realise that not all is well, that perhaps they are not in an ideal situation. For example, "fat shaming". Some people just need to be told they are an unhealthy weight, eat to excess, and don't do enough exercise. It's for their own good. People die from heart disease because others are too afraid to say, "Yes, your ass really does look big in that! You're fat! Lose some weight".
Honesty is always the best policy in the long run. Lying is just... well, wrong. Isn't it obvious?

 

[Nitro]

Or it might encourage them to do better next time. A "crushing blow" is just a tad melodramatic, don't you think? In any case, sometimes a "crushing blow" is exactly what a person needs in order to get them to actually realise that not all is well, that perhaps they are not in an ideal situation. For example, "fat shaming". Some people just need to be told they are an unhealthy weight, eat to excess, and don't do enough exercise. It's for their own good. People die from heart disease because others are too afraid to say, "Yes, your ass really does look big in that! You're fat! Lose some weight".
Honesty is always the best policy in the long run. Lying is just... well, wrong. Isn't it obvious?

Ok, let's review this material.

Topic:
Why do non-autistics lie to their kids?

I answered the post as I first read it.

It has since been edited.

The non-autistic part threw me for a loop too, because it is such a broad statement.




"To put a child down no matter how poorly they have performed might be a crushing blow to their soul."

Child is the key word here, not some overweight adult who needs to mind their diet, exercise or possibly has a medical condition, but let's move forward from there because this is not an adult intervention, it's a discussion about being honest with a child.

If a child puts their heart and soul into making you, once again YOU being the key word here, a gift, it may have been to the best of their ability and in their mind perfect and worthy of passing on to you as a token of their love for you, then by all means, be brutally honest and tell them that their gift wasn't actually up to par for your standards and tell them to try harder because they suck at making gifts.

------------------------------------------------------
Not all children are born as musical prodigies, so expect some poor music until something clicks.

Leaving the area might help if it is going to make you melt down, but do you really think you are cut out for parenthood if you can't handle their practicing?



Yes, encouragement may help them to up their game, or possibly make them set the instrument down and never play it again because they perceived that you told them they sucked at it.

-------------------------------------------
Scenario: Imminent major disaster.

"No biggie kid, we are probably all going to die, but don't worry about a thing because I just told you the truth"
-------------------------------------

"I love you more than anything in the world"

Actually son/daughter, I love my TV Guide and a bowl of ice cream a little better than you, but now you know the truth, so off to bed and hopefully you won't have a nightmare.

---------------------------------------------

The white lie about not being there to answer the phone is a judgement call, but what if you really didn't want to deal with their usual nonsense?

Eh, the best policy would be to answer the phone all bent out of shape and tell them truthfully that you thought they were a jerk.
Two things gets solved here, the kid doesn't have to lie and neither do you.

======================

I guess that's just being honest, so no biggie, because being honest with them is the best policy.

That's fairly obvious, isn't it?

 

[SunnyDay16]

Or it might encourage them to do better next time. A "crushing blow" is just a tad melodramatic, don't you think? In any case, sometimes a "crushing blow" is exactly what a person needs in order to get them to actually realise that not all is well, that perhaps they are not in an ideal situation. For example, "fat shaming". Some people just need to be told they are an unhealthy weight, eat to excess, and don't do enough exercise. It's for their own good. People die from heart disease because others are too afraid to say, "Yes, your ass really does look big in that! You're fat! Lose some weight".
Honesty is always the best policy in the long run. Lying is just... well, wrong. Isn't it obvious?

There's a difference between being honest and being an ass. I've seen tons of people use "honesty" as an excuse to be in insufferable prick and everyone suffers for it. You can say what is on your mind while still being thoughtful and considerate. Telling a fat person to lose some weight might be what they need if you're a doctor or a family member, but it depends on the individual person. Some fat people don't need to be told that, as they already know they need to but don't know how to, but the ones who live in denial may need that.

A poor song or drawing isn't something to criticize to your child about if they don't have plans on becoming a professional singer or artist. If they are doing it to show their love for you, then to criticize it is pointless, as it's just a song being played or a drawing being made for fun.

 

[tree]

The silliest, to me, is when people pride themselves
on their "brutal honesty."

It's possible to be honest without being a brute about it.

 

[SunnyDay16]

They lie because they are all, in my view, what could be termed "high-functioning sociopaths". They also allow themselves to be dictated to by their emotions, so that is why it "logically makes no sense". Trying to understand how en-tees think is futile and pointless. One would have better luck trying to figure out the most obstinate problem in quantum mechanics whilst being afflicted with dyscalculia.

I don't think being considerate of how other people feel is allowing yourself to be "dictated by your emotions".

 

[SunnyDay16]

The silliest, to me, is when people pride themselves
on their "brutal honesty."

It's possible to be honest without being a brute about it.

To add my two cents in, people are more likely to actually take your honest feedback into consideration when you are direct but still considerate because it shows that you are saying it because you care about them and want to improve their lives, not just criticizing for the purpose of criticizing.

 

[Mattymatt]

Children are very vulnerable so it's important to take every precaution necessary not to hurt their self-esteem. I had an abusive father that didn't get that little nuance and it's left lasting scars. If the OP cannot grasp this then he has no business having children. I apologize for the bluntness but this hits home. My father should never have had children because he never grasped the concept of showing unconditional love.

 

[LearnedCoward]

That is, if their dream is being an artist; otherwise, I’d just stay quiet and let the NTs say their stuff

What if they're just looking for a creative outlet and don't give a rip about being a professional artist... y'know, because they're like five years old?

Very very few people have what it takes to become professional artists. On the other hand, that creative outlet really comes in handy when the only other option is to drink away your troubles. Not that I'd know from experience or anything

 

[LearnedCoward]

Or it might encourage them to do better next time.

There's the disconnect. NT child thinks they're doing something nice to show their love and appreciation for their parent. AS parent thinks the kid is trying to embark on a career as a world famous artist, and offers some "constructive criticism" (for certain values of constructive). So, the AS parent is trying to encourage the child to do better at art, and the NT child thinks they need to do better at love, not art.

In any case, sometimes a "crushing blow" is exactly what a person needs in order to get them to actually realise that not all is well, that perhaps they are not in an ideal situation.

I disagree. Usually they do know, and they actually think it's worse than it is. They don't need some know-it-all judging them, they need support.

Hence, telling someone that it's going to be okay when you don't know for a fact that it will be okay. It's a reassurance that not all is lost, and nothing irrevocably bad has happened.

For example, "fat shaming". Some people just need to be told they are an unhealthy weight, eat to excess, and don't do enough exercise. It's for their own good. People die from heart disease because others are too afraid to say, "Yes, your ass really does look big in that! You're fat! Lose some weight".

I have so many issues with this. Fat people know they're fat. Maybe they put on weight rapidly and have been unable to lose it. Maybe they are unable to exercise due to an injury or illness. Maybe they have an hour-plus commute each way to a job where they work 10 hours a day and don't really have time to exercise. Maybe they don't have access to healthy food. Maybe they don't want to lose weight, because it's a free country and you can't make them, and not even premature death can make them. You don't know their story. What you do know is that their problem is complex enough that some little scold flapping his jaws at them won't magically solve all of their problems.

Honesty is always the best policy in the long run. Lying is just... well, wrong. Isn't it obvious?

It's only obvious if you don't think about it. People* are not rational in the slightest. Some people don't take the truth well, others think their way of doing things is the only way of doing things, still others don't care what the truth is and would rather be blissfully ignorant. Then you have these people who really don't know one way or another what the "right way" is but who have somehow convinced themselves that they and only they know the truth, and they must impart their truth on any and all from the speeding 18-wheeler of non-conformity.

This is why we as a society have evolved to be diplomatic. If we weren't, then we'd just have everyone and their mother waving their opinions in everyone's faces.

* Notice that I didn't say NTs.

It's possible to be honest without being a brute about it.

Winner winner chicken dinner!

 

[Tesseract]

Ok, let's review this material.

Topic:
Why do non-autistics lie to their kids?

I answered the post as I first read it.

It has since been edited.

The non-autistic part threw me for a loop too, because it is such a broad statement.




"To put a child down no matter how poorly they have performed might be a crushing blow to their soul."

Child is the key word here, not some overweight adult who needs to mind their diet, exercise or possibly has a medical condition, but let's move forward from there because this is not an adult intervention, it's a discussion about being honest with a child.

If a child puts their heart and soul into making you, once again YOU being the key word here, a gift, it may have been to the best of their ability and in their mind perfect and worthy of passing on to you as a token of their love for you, then by all means, be brutally honest and tell them that their gift wasn't actually up to par for your standards and tell them to try harder because they suck at making gifts.

------------------------------------------------------
Not all children are born as musical prodigies, so expect some poor music until something clicks.

Leaving the area might help if it is going to make you melt down, but do you really think you are cut out for parenthood if you can't handle their practicing?



Yes, encouragement may help them to up their game, or possibly make them set the instrument down and never play it again because they perceived that you told them they sucked at it.

-------------------------------------------
Scenario: Imminent major disaster.

"No biggie kid, we are probably all going to die, but don't worry about a thing because I just told you the truth"
-------------------------------------

"I love you more than anything in the world"

Actually son/daughter, I love my TV Guide and a bowl of ice cream a little better than you, but now you know the truth, so off to bed and hopefully you won't have a nightmare.

---------------------------------------------

The white lie about not being there to answer the phone is a judgement call, but what if you really didn't want to deal with their usual nonsense?

Eh, the best policy would be to answer the phone all bent out of shape and tell them truthfully that you thought they were a jerk.
Two things gets solved here, the kid doesn't have to lie and neither do you.

======================

I guess that's just being honest, so no biggie, because being honest with them is the best policy.

That's fairly obvious, isn't it?

God, what brought this on? Yes, honesty is the best policy. I said that. What's with the winkyface?

"Child is the key word here, not some overweight adult who needs to mind their diet, exercise or possibly has a medical condition, but let's move forward from there because this is not an adult intervention, it's a discussion about being honest with a child." - Nitro

Yeah, I don't see the point you are trying to make here. When I myself was a child, adults would lie to me a LOT, and it was NEVER in my best interests, although in their mind it was at the time. The excuses would be endless, and very imaginative. A lack of trust in adults was one of the results of this. When you lie to someone you are being deliberately disrespectful, because you have made the assessment on their behalf that they couldn't handle the truth.

 

[Tesseract]

There's a difference between being honest and being an ass. I've seen tons of people use "honesty" as an excuse to be in insufferable prick and everyone suffers for it. You can say what is on your mind while still being thoughtful and considerate.

Yes, I know that. I didn't endorse being "an insufferable prick". However, I would rather have to deal with a "prick" who is decent enough to tell me the truth (ex. a doctor - "you've only got five days to live"), than someone who in their mind believes I'm not good enough, or strong enough, to handle the truth (or constructive criticism), and thinks that lying to me is a suitable response to my question.

Telling a fat person to lose some weight might be what they need if you're a doctor or a family member, but it depends on the individual person. Some fat people don't need to be told that, as they already know they need to but don't know how to, but the ones who live in denial may need that.

I was just using that as an example. If I were to put on weight I KNOW that I would not want people to say, "No, don't be silly, you're still thin".

A poor song or drawing isn't something to criticize to your child about if they don't have plans on becoming a professional singer or artist. If they are doing it to show their love for you, then to criticize it is pointless, as it's just a song being played or a drawing being made for fun.

Hmmm... I'm now thinking of all those young people on American/Australian/Other Country Idol who think they can sing, and when told they can't break down into tears because their "friends" told them they actually had talent.

 

[Tesseract]

There's the disconnect. NT child thinks they're doing something nice to show their love and appreciation for their parent. AS parent thinks the kid is trying to embark on a career as a world famous artist, and offers some "constructive criticism" (for certain values of constructive). So, the AS parent is trying to encourage the child to do better at art, and the NT child thinks they need to do better at love, not art.

Love not art? I don't understand this. Maybe it's because I've never been a parent. If it's this confusing then it's a good thing I never became one.

I disagree. Usually they do know, and they actually think it's worse than it is. They don't need some know-it-all judging them, they need support.

Hence, telling someone that it's going to be okay when you don't know for a fact that it will be okay. It's a reassurance that not all is lost, and nothing irrevocably bad has happened.

I wasn't talking about judging them (although there is nothing wrong with being judgemental). I was talking about being honest.

I have so many issues with this. Fat people know they're fat. Maybe they put on weight rapidly and have been unable to lose it. Maybe they are unable to exercise due to an injury or illness. Maybe they have an hour-plus commute each way to a job where they work 10 hours a day and don't really have time to exercise. Maybe they don't have access to healthy food. Maybe they don't want to lose weight, because it's a free country and you can't make them, and not even premature death can make them. You don't know their story. What you do know is that their problem is complex enough that some little scold flapping his jaws at them won't magically solve all of their problems.

Many don't know they're fat though. Most people live in denial when it comes to issues/truths they simply cannot face. That's been my experience anyway. "Maybe" I DO "know their story".

It's only obvious if you don't think about it. People* are not rational in the slightest. Some people don't take the truth well, others think their way of doing things is the only way of doing things, still others don't care what the truth is and would rather be blissfully ignorant. Then you have these people who really don't know one way or another what the "right way" is but who have somehow convinced themselves that they and only they know the truth, and they must impart their truth on any and all from the speeding 18-wheeler of non-conformity.

This is why we as a society have evolved to be diplomatic. If we weren't, then we'd just have everyone and their mother waving their opinions in everyone's faces.

* Notice that I didn't say NTs.

"People" are rational. Well, some of them are (like me). If someone is irrational, that's their problem, and I should not have to lie, or "walk on eggshells", simply because they have a fragile ego, one that requires they retreat from reality into a silly safe-space.
"This is why we as a society have evolved to be diplomatic. If we weren't, then we'd just have everyone and their mother waving their opinions in everyone's faces." - LearnedCoward
Screw "diplomacy"! We should all become more like Donald!

 

[Tesseract]

I don't think being considerate of how other people feel is allowing yourself to be "dictated by your emotions".

I didn't say that. One can easily be considerate, but truthful as well. The two are not necessarily mutually exclusive.

 

[onlything]

Yes, I know that. I didn't endorse being "an insufferable prick". However, I would rather have to deal with a "prick" who is decent enough to tell me the truth (ex. a doctor - "you've only got five days to live"), than someone who in their mind believes I'm not good enough, or strong enough, to handle the truth (or constructive criticism), and thinks that lying to me is a suitable response to my question.



I was just using that as an example. If I were to put on weight I KNOW that I would not want people to say, "No, don't be silly, you're still thin".



Hmmm... I'm now thinking of all those young people on American/Australian/Other Country Idol who think they can sing, and when told they can't break down into tears because their "friends" told them they actually had talent.

Hm, you are making one crucial misjudgement here - other people are not yourself. Whatever sparked your desire to hear and know the truth, it's absent or differently formed in others. Although you may feel that you're strong enough to 'hear the truth', other people, especially children, may focus on very different aspects. People crave platitudes, yes, but in case of children at times they need them to reinforce a positive view of themselves - causing higher self-esteem in adult life for example. Children are like sponges that take everything that is told to them seriously and are mostly not thick skinned enough to constructively deal with criticism. Even ignoring a child enough times after they come from school can send them a subcouncious message of 'you're not worth of my attention' that can carry on long after reaching adulthood.

That's the thing you need to understand - that other people aren't always like you, don't think and feel like you and understanding them and vice versa demands a lot of work and communication. Even those that are highly compatible and very similar are still different in crucial aspects and to keep a good relationship with them you need much interaction from both sides. These are basics of a friendship.

You say you do not understand the concept of love in the case of the drawing/singing anecdote. That may be a problem since you seem less emotive/empathetic than an average person. Unless you work on it through actively trying to understand without judging, it's not going to change and until it changes if only slightly, people will see you as a 'prick'. That is to say, no one expects you to change yourself. No one can make you either and that's fine. But people will expect you to improve yourself and your understanding, in this case - your empathy/sympathy etc.

There's difference between honesty and brutal honestly. There's also tact and subtlety involved. People like you and me may have hard time learning about these but it's an essential skill in life - unless you intend to fully isolate yourself from society be it at a learning, working or familial environment.