Why does autism steal symptoms of everything else?

[vergil96]

Yeah, I would have understood the ape comparison the same way, not negative, but something similar, but not quite.

because I have difficulty explaining things and sometimes use poor choice of wording,

Me too, I get where you're coming from

If they did divide the spectrum into different types then ADHD could be added to the spectrum and it would make it so much easier for people like myself who don't "feel" autistic nor "seem autistic" to others.

I've been reading your posts for a few months and I'm wondering what kind of conflict is behind it and what's driving you. You ask the question what is and what isn't autism over and over, it's about belonging for you. I feel like you're looking for something and you're not finding it.

What would a desirable situation look like for you? Let's forget being neurotypical for a moment, and suppose you won't fit in with the neurotypical people. Would you fit in with support groups? What would fitting in look like for you? What kind of behaviors would others have for you to feel good? What kind of people would you meet in support groups? What kind of internet or IRL community would you want to be a part of?

 

[Aspychata]

I do say insensitive things, especially with my mom. I don't care if I fit in. @Misty Avich , the rating changed, and they dropped the aspergers label, so obviously it is still being defined in the DSM. It's closer in my mind to a jelly fish. You can see it you know it exists, but you can't put it in a neat little box and break it down. Or can they, and they just care not to?

 

[Misty Avich]

Point taken. I was particularly salty about the ape reference on top of other things said prior. And you are right, it's an attitude not confined to Misty. I got defensive and took it out on Misty who is struggling to integrate "autism" into her sense of herself, it sounds like that, anyway.
I myself have the ADHD issues as well, and I do feel her pain about the social struggles and identity issues. I've been there myself.

I'm having a rough day, emotionally, and I should, could, have been gentler, kinder, in my response.

You just misinterpreted the ape thing, as I meant it in a completely different sense, which was why I felt a bit alarmed at one of your replies. I don't like people saying I lack emotional sensitivity. If you read my other posts you'll realise that I'm generally not insensitive.
With the ape thing, let me explain. I was comparing humans to apes, and autism wasn't part of the equation. I just meant that humans are biologically related to apes but it wouldn't feel right if we (humans) started calling ourselves apes.
I did think of a better analogy but I thought that would be offensive so I reconsidered and thought using an animal as an analogy would less likely to be taken offense to but obviously I was wrong and now I'm insensitive.

I feel I'm not allowed to talk about my feelings on autism here. It's like I'm expected to love or accept my autism happily otherwise it's insulting to everyone else on the spectrum. If you don't like my attitude or you have to take it personally then don't read my posts. Not wanting to have autism or hating having autism does not mean I hate the whole autism community. Just don't make me out to be a bad person. I have self-esteem issues and nobody can change my mind. Not everyone is obliged to embrace their condition. I can vent about it if I want.

I can see why and how you misinterpreted my analogy. I wish I had of explained it better. It's too late now.

 

[tree]

Too late?

It's true time can't be reversed, but
it's possible to clarify what one has said.

 

[Misty Avich]

I've been reading your posts for a few months and I'm wondering what kind of conflict is behind it and what's driving you. You ask the question what is and what isn't autism over and over, it's about belonging for you. I feel like you're looking for something and you're not finding it.

I'm always reading up on autism but I still find I don't fit it. I feel I fit ADHD and anxiety, but autism just seems vague for me. I don't know, it's hard to explain.
It's like people who don't identify with their gender or something. We must respect that, so maybe people should respect my feelings on my 'autism dysphoria' as I like to call it, instead of calling me insensitive when I'm just trying to explain.

Let's forget being neurotypical for a moment, and suppose you won't fit in with the neurotypical people. Would you fit in with support groups?

There are more diversities than autism. Some autistics think there are only two types of humans; autistic and neurotypical. But it isn't that black and white at all.

What would fitting in look like for you? What kind of behaviors would others have for you to feel good? What kind of people would you meet in support groups? What kind of internet or IRL community would you want to be a part of?

I fit in with family. I am respected and accepted at work but that bit of social awkwardness holds me back a little but the main thing is I'm accepted and I know I am, so that's what matters the most and I do feel I belong as a human. I don't feel that different, although my behaviour can be a little different, as in quirky. But not too different.
I just wish I had the confidence to be able to chat to strangers, strike up conversation and even make friends like that. But I go introverted and shy. My voice becomes weak and gets filtered out by others. I see a lot of people get embarrassed when this happens, as it happens to my (NT but shy) husband. At family gatherings, even with his own family, he often says something to someone and they don't hear, and I can see the sudden weakness in his voice and feel his embarrassment.

I used to be part of a forum for people with things like anxiety, depression, social anxiety, things like that, and I did belong but it became rather inactive and I stopped visiting years ago.
I belong to a couple of ADHD groups on Facebook but like 90% of members there are autistic as well, so it's no different from being on an autism forum really. I'd rather talk to people who have ADHD but not autism, or who at least have ADHD as their 'dominant' disorder. I fit the ADHD criteria very cosily (I have been diagnosed with ADHD and feel happy about it).

 

[Misty Avich]

Too late?

It's true time can't be reversed, but
it's possible to clarify what one has said.

No matter how much I clarify now, people just ignore it and carry on seeing me as a nasty insensitive person. I hate it. This is what happens. It's really ruined my Sunday.

 

[tree]

No matter how much I clarify now, people just ignore it and carry on seeing me as a nasty insensitive person. I hate it. This is what happens. It's really ruined my Sunday.

You're feeling pretty bad right now.

 

[kenaij]

Symptoms are not what decides you have something. The reason behind the symptom does.
So yes. ADHD and ASD can have the same symptoms but the cause of those symptoms are different.
I`ll just pick one example to explain.
Short attention span.
ADHD: Someone is talking about subject A, which causes the ADHD brain to link that to subject B, which has something to do with subject C, which in turn could cause the ADHD brain to think about subject D. The ADHD brain no longer listens to the person talking about subject A.
ASD: Someone is talking about subject A, now one particular word or sentence causes the ASD brain to focus on this particular part of the subject. And the ASD brain goes so deep into that one thing that the brain no longer listens to the person talking about it. The mind has gone deeper into the subject.
Both can come across as a short attention span, or absent mindedness. Both brains display the symptom. But the reason why it is displayed is different.

The above is just an example based on a conversation I had with a colleague who have ADHD, and I think I have ASD. We can both be very absent minded/distracted/have a short attention span. But for him it is the ADHD example, and for me it is the ASD example.

 

[Misty Avich]

You're feeling pretty bad right now.

It's just that just because I'm on an autism forum people have to brand me as lacking empathy. I mean, if or when they have been bullied by neurotypicals (which sadly happens to most people on the spectrum) I bet they wouldn't tell them they lack empathy for bullying or not understanding them.

Double standards is what I hate about autism.

 

[tree]

Double standards?

 

[Misty Avich]

Symptoms are not what decides you have something. The reason behind the symptom does.
So yes. ADHD and ASD can have the same symptoms but the cause of those symptoms are different.
I`ll just pick one example to explain.
Short attention span.
ADHD: Someone is talking about subject A, which causes the ADHD brain to link that to subject B, which has something to do with subject C, which in turn could cause the ADHD brain to think about subject D. The ADHD brain no longer listens to the person talking about subject A.
ASD: Someone is talking about subject A, now one particular word or sentence causes the ASD brain to focus on this particular part of the subject. And the ASD brain goes so deep into that one thing that the brain no longer listens to the person talking about it. The mind has gone deeper into the subject.
Both can come across as a short attention span, or absent mindedness. Both brains display the symptom. But the reason why it is displayed is different.

The above is just an example based on a conversation I had with a colleague who have ADHD, and I think I have ASD. We can both be very absent minded/distracted/have a short attention span. But for him it is the ADHD example, and for me it is the ASD example.

This is a good description.
Most of my 'symptoms' are ADHD-caused. My social awkwardness, for example. I often say things that are irrelevant, but it's because it's a thought that I need to speak out, even though my instinct tells me that people will think I'm weird or stupid by saying it, I still do without caring about the consequences - only to beat myself up because of the consequences that I already knew beforehand would happen.

It's like I don't lack social instincts but I take risks, due to impulsivity. Luckily I do have boundaries, but some things I say can be pointless, awkward or stupid. But if I don't say them then I won't talk much at all, unless it's about feelings or experiences.

 

[Misty Avich]

Double standards?

Here's an example:-

Aspie feels overwhelmed and anxious, like she's going to have a meltdown. She ignores a neighbour who says hi to her, and the neighbour takes it personally and thinks the Aspie is being rude or doesn't like them any more. The Aspie is told that she is rude and that she should have still said hi back, as she can't expect others to understand that she's just having a bad day.

NT feels overwhelmed and anxious with life. They ignore their Aspie neighbour who says hi, and the Aspie takes it personally and thinks the NT is being rude or doesn't like her any more. The Aspie is told that the NT probably didn't acknowledge her because they're stressed, and the Aspie is lacking empathy for the NT by taking it personally instead of understanding that other people have problems too.

This is just an example but makes a point on how NTs are allowed to be hostile if they're having a bad day and we must understand and respect that, but if we're hostile to an NT because we're having a bad day then we're not understanding or respecting others.

I feel I'm not allowed to be a human. I have to be a subhuman instead. But when I say that, it offends the whole autism community. I can't say anything. What can I do?

 

[tree]

@Misty Avich

Do you have a therapist with whom you meet on a regular basis?

 

[Misty Avich]

@Misty Avich

Do you have a therapist with whom you meet on a regular basis?

I don't want a therapist. I don't have the time.

I use this forum as a sort of therapy for me. But often it causes me more stress lol.

 

[tree]

Don't have the time?

How much time do you figure would be required?

 

[Misty Avich]

So I think its good to post info and learn, and maybe not so good to target a person as insensitive, even if it was true.

People like doing that to me. I should be used to it.

 

[Misty Avich]

Don't have the time?

How much time do you figure would be required?

Therapy sessions are Monday-Friday, 8am-5pm only, and I work within those times, so although it's only 50 minutes a week there's no time in my schedule. At the same time I need each therapy session to be like 3 hours long, on a Saturday or something.
I don't want therapy. Had it before, it didn't really change my perception.

 

[Neri]

I didn't like your reply, if I'm honest. I was NOT comparing autistic people to apes. I thought my analogy was clear enough. We as humans descended from apes and are related to apes but we don't call ourselves apes, do we? ("We" as in the human population).

And thanks for saying I lack emotional intelligence. I thought that was one quality I could say I had. Maybe I do lack it. Maybe I'm a psychopath.

What happened on the other forum is repeating itself here now. That goes to show I'm a nasty, horrible psychopath. Or I'm just stupid. They can't all be wrong.

Look, I'm an Aspie who is going to be a little blunt sometimes.
Who sees things with a certain kind of logic (when I'm not being overly emotional, myself), and the way I see it, you have 2 choices, if you want to be a happier, more at peace human.

1. You can learn to accept your diagnosis and find the positives in it and work on the things you are not happy about yourself. Which is what I was alluding to. You can work on all of the behaviours and attitudes that aren't helping you. You can do cognitive behavioural therapy. Isn't that what you are here for, looking for help with the ways you are thinking and thus behaving? Believe it or not, I am trying to help you, to empower you, not to make you feel worse.

2. You can admit to yourself that you think they got it wrong. That they misdiagnosed you. Doctors aren't gods. They get things wrong sometimes. If you think they misdiagnosed you and ADHD is what is going on for you, you can get treatment for that. I'm waiting on seeing a psychiatrist for my ADHD.

And it might very well that that IS the case. That you aren't even autistic. Not an Aspie.

I do sympathise if you think this is the case.

I got a diagnosis, a diagnosis that a lot of people seem to equate with just being a very horrible person. And I was treated horribly when I tried to get treatment when I was very ill, in hospital, and it was very traumatic. My partner of 14 years thinks it was the wrong diagnosis. And it's still following me around, hurting me. So I do empathise with what you are feeling about ASD, despite what you think I am trying to do or say to you. I don't think those horrible things you believe I was trying to imply. You are being much crueler to yourself than I was to you.

You must realise that Autistic people can be blunt sometimes and I was blunt with you. But you seem to misinterpret my meaning and my intention. I was trying to empower you and address the negativity you feel toward the label of Autistic. I was trying to empower you in realising that you aren't defined, negatively by that diagnosis. That you are doing it to yourself and you can change that. I was trying to remind you of your own personal power and self responsibility, because that makes you powerful in being able to change your own life for the better.

 

[Ronald Zeeman]

All human traits follow on a spectrum or are part of a Venn diagram. Like I said in other threads having worked with colour where does one colour end and the adjoining colour begin. Or at least smear into each other.

 

[Misty Avich]

Look, I'm an Aspie who is going to be a little blunt sometimes.
Who sees things with a certain kind of logic (when I'm not being overly emotional, myself), and the way I see it, you have 2 choices, if you want to be a happier, more at peace human.

Well, I guess it's forgiveable if you were just being blunt without any negative intentions. I just panicked because I thought I had hurt you. You misinterpreted my ape analogy, which I admit wasn't the best choice of words on my part. Misunderstandings happen, I guess.

1. You can learn to accept your diagnosis and find the positives in it and work on the things you are not happy about yourself. Which is what I was alluding to. You can work on all of the behaviours and attitudes that aren't helping you. You can do cognitive behavioural therapy. Isn't that what you are here for, looking for help with the ways you are thinking and thus behaving? Believe it or not, I am trying to help you, to empower you, not to make you feel worse.

OK. I see your point.

2. You can admit to yourself that you think they got it wrong. That they misdiagnosed you. Doctors aren't gods. They get things wrong sometimes. If you think they misdiagnosed you and ADHD is what is going on for you, you can get treatment for that. I'm waiting on seeing a psychiatrist for my ADHD.

And it might very well that that IS the case. That you aren't even autistic. Not an Aspie.

That IS the case for me. Well, I feel I can't prove it until I have had a reassessment, which I'm in 2 minds of getting. I'm thinking about it though. If that is the case then I'd feel less confused and dysphoric about who I am, and begin to move forward. I'll still remain here, because I like autistic people.

I do sympathise if you think this is the case.

I got a diagnosis, a diagnosis that a lot of people seem to equate with just being a very horrible person. And I was treated horribly when I tried to get treatment when I was very ill, in hospital, and it was very traumatic. My partner of 14 years thinks it was the wrong diagnosis. And it's still following me around, hurting me. So I do empathise with what you are feeling about ASD, despite what you think I am trying to do or say to you. I don't think those horrible things you believe I was trying to imply. You are being much crueler to yourself than I was to you.

I'm sorry you experienced that. It isn't pleasant.

You must realise that Autistic people can be blunt sometimes and I was blunt with you. But you seem to misinterpret my meaning and my intention. I was trying to empower you and address the negativity you feel toward the label of Autistic. I was trying to empower you in realising that you aren't defined, negatively by that diagnosis. That you are doing it to yourself and you can change that. I was trying to remind you of your own personal power and self responsibility, because that makes you powerful in being able to change your own life for the better.

OK.
I forgive you. I'm sorry about the misunderstanding. My emotions can run away with me sometimes.