why does romantic love take priority

[Suzette]

@OkRad, the neat and tidy explaination that womens bodies became a comoddity to ensure "the children were yours" only works in patralineal societies. In matralineal ones women are valued by men because women will raise their offspring.

 

[Pats]

Romantic love can easily turn into an obsession and you can become blind to other things around you, including friendships. You can even lose yourself. I think that's why some relationships end unpleasantly. You have to keep it realistic and grounded.

 

[Gerald Wilgus]

@OkRad, the neat and tidy explaination that womens bodies became a comoddity to ensure "the children were yours" only works in patralineal societies. In matralineal ones women are valued by men because women will raise their offspring.

I sorta like the matrilineal system of the Navajo. A child is "born to" the mother's clan and "born for" the father's clan. Beyond that the relationships are too much for my poor anglo mind to wrap around.

 

[OkRad]

@OkRad, the neat and tidy explaination that womens bodies became a comoddity to ensure "the children were yours" only works in patralineal societies. In matralineal ones women are valued by men because women will raise their offspring.

Are there any matriarchal societies left? Robert Graves, the exemplary Classicist, in his book on myth suggested that all the gods and myths were actually reflecting erstwhile matriarchal societies! Fascianting stuff and of course, panned by other classicists......though he is still prize winning and considered one of the all time supreme classicists of all time for good reason!

 

[Suzette]

Are there any matriarchal societies left? Robert Graves, the exemplary Classicist, in his book on myth suggested that all the gods and myths were actually reflecting erstwhile matriarchal societies! Fascianting stuff and of course, panned by other classicists......though he is still prize winning and considered one of the all time supreme classicists of all time for good reason!

My internet is poor right now so research is out so I can't tell you diffinateively what societies are still matriarchal but based on my direct experience on the Hopi and Navajo reservations, matriarchal societies make much more sense. It is the women who bare the children, raise them, keep house and often farm the crops and raise small food animals like rabbits, goats and chickens. These things make up the bulk of what we prize as "ours". Our homes, minor possetions, the bulk of our food and our children. Hearth and home so to speak. It is the women who will tend the sick and often are responsible for education as well. By ensuring women control these things it frees the men to do what they do best, hunt and make war (protecting the macro resources of a community) and ensures that your children will be raised by strong leaders even if you aren't there.

There is so much more I could say about this but it is not really the place. I look forward to reading about Robert Graves when my internet is better.

 

[Gerald Wilgus]

My internet is poor right now so research is out so I can't tell you diffinateively what societies are still matriarchal but based on my direct experience on the Hopi and Navajo reservations, matriarchal societies make much more sense. It is the women who bare the children, raise them, keep house and often farm the crops and raise small food animals like rabbits, goats and chickens. These things make up the bulk of what we prize as "ours". Our homes, minor possetions, the bulk of our food and our children. Hearth and home so to speak. It is the women who will tend the sick and often are responsible for education as well. By ensuring women control these things it frees the men to do what they do best, hunt and make war (protecting the macro resources of a community) and ensures that your children will be raised by strong leaders even if you aren't there.

There is so much more I could say about this but it is not really the place. I look forward to reading about Robert Graves when my internet is better.

And, importantly, how the men train boys to be of value to the community with the Kachina societies in the Pueblo Kivas. I was fortunate to see the Kachina murals in the old mission church at Zuni. They are absolutely spectacular and not without some controversy. Some of the depicted Kachinas no longer have living adherants - sad. But to my mind it is the Sistine Chapel of the West.

It is a way of living in the world that we can learn from.

 

[Judge]

I think romantic love is a sort of gaslighting perpetuated by society to encourage procreation.
It's like romance is dangled as a reward for having kids.

Indeed. A societal form of gaslighting. Wish I had thought of explaining it like that.

 

[Suzette]

And, importantly, how the men train boys to be of value to the community with the Kachina societies in the Pueblo Kivas. I was fortunate to see the Kachina murals in the old mission church at Zuni. They are absolutely spectacular and not without some controversy. Some of the depicted Kachinas no longer have living adherants - sad. But to my mind it is the Sistine Chapel of the West.

It is a way of living in the world that we can learn from.

I was an invited guest at a Hopi clown dance on second mesa. To feel the beat of a hundred (probably only 30) drums echoing through the tiny square is a memory I will never forget! I was invited to participate in the dance feast too which was kind of like if your loving grandma was morphed with Loki. That is a bizarre description but it is the best I can do!

 

[Suzette]

Come on guys, this thread is destroying my view on love, can'`t we just agree it`s a wonderful and magical thing? When we start picking at it, it sounds so negative.

I don't feel negative about romantic love at all.

But honestly, until I matured emotionally, romantic love was the stuff of nightmares. I was nieve, gullible, unrealistic and codependent. Basically just the sort of person whom one could lie to, use and easily manipulate. And men did! Usually with my bewildered compliance as well because stories of romance had led me to believe I needed to be "in love" with some handsome face and a "princely" backstory.

It wasn't until I took a more pragmatic view that "romance" began to actually feel good.

 

[PinkPhilodendron]

I believe that friendships are as important and valuable or even more important and valuable than romantic relationships. I can live without a Partner for many years but I do not think I could live without any friends for even half a year....
But happy romantic relationships are much, much rarer and more intimate than friendships that's why they have another status for many people...I guess. Like that one lilac shimmering butterfly that takes away your breath and draws your whole attention.
That's how I feel....

 

[PinkPhilodendron]

Come on guys, this thread is destroying my view on love, can'`t we just agree it`s a wonderful and magical thing? When we start picking at it, it sounds so negative.

I agree. It's a wonderful and magical thing.

<3

 

[Gerald Wilgus]

I believe that friendships are as important and valuable or even more important and valuable than romantic relationships. I can live without a Partner for many years but I do not think I could live without any friends for even half a year....
But happy romantic relationships are much, much rarer and more intimate than friendships that's why they have another status for many people...I guess. Like that one lilac shimmering butterfly that takes away your breath and draws your whole attention.
That's how I feel....

That is so very nice for you. Especially my living out in the country, relationships and friends are important. Just this morning my spouse and I led an outing to hike at a beautiful area of dunes overlooking lake Michigan for our bike club. It was -6 degrees F out and a dozen hearty souls showed up. We made pastries, bacon and Mexican chocolate to enjoy before and after the hike. We all had a great time. It was a bit of work for us, but as I age I enjoy being with small groups and the effort in belonging is worth it. I also have become better at nurturing relationships with the very close friends I have. I have made the decision not to let my ego get in the way of connection.

And, I agree, it is so very different from the romantic/intimate relationship I have with my spouse. Our libidos age as we do, and in the recent past I was not as intimate with her as we deserved, so last year set out to reignite what was smouldering, starting with simple cuddling. Anymore I could seduce her with breakfast in bed, lol. I don't know about romance, but it is fun.

 

[PinkPhilodendron]

That is so very nice for you. Especially living out in the country, relationships and friends are important. Just this morning my spouse and I led an outing to hike at a beautiful area of dunes overlooking lake Michigan for our bike club. It was -6 degrees out and a dozen hearty souls showed up. We made pastries, bacon and Mexican chocolate to enjoy before and after the hike. We all had a great time. It was a bit of work for us, but as I age I enjoy being with small groups and the effort in belonging is worth it. I also have become better at nurturing relationships with the very close friends I have. I have made the decision not to let my ego get in the way of connection.

And, I agree, it is so very different from the romantic/intimate relationship I have with my spouse. Our libidos age as we do, and in the recent past I was not as intimate with her as we deserved, so last year set out to reignite what was smouldering, starting with simple cuddling. Anymore I could seduce her with breakfast in bed, lol. I don't know about romance, but it is fun.

What is mexican chocolate?

It seems like your romantic relationship gave you the energy and skills to pursue friendships. Which is beautiful as a partner is ideally there to help and encourage you to become a better you

I feel happy for you that you could get the fire to burn again and that you realised that you deserve that fire and did treat yourselves accordingly

I believe romance is born out of being seen. That's why I think that looking into each others eyes for long moments feels romantic.

 

[PinkPhilodendron]

I was thinking about asking too. What is that?

Do you also feel bad when you ask people online about things you could easiliy google yourself?

But then I think "Hey, it's supposed to be a conversation!" And I feel guilty still....

But perhaps Gerald has some nice fotos of the chocolate

 

[Gerald Wilgus]

I once took cooking lessons in Oaxaca where chocolatl is used extravagantly. To buy it there, one goes to a store like Mayordomo and tells the counterman the proportions of coco beans, sugar, bitter almonds and cinnamon (real, Ceylon, cinnamon). And they will weigh it out and grind it all several times in a molina. You are then handed a bag of warm chocolate paste. You hustle home and quickly divide it into patties that then harden. You then use it by putting the patty into an appropriate amount of water or milk let it softem and mix it with a Molinillo that one buys from the Mixtec (see picture). Such a fancy whisk is fitting for chocolatl, and one twirls it between your palms. The drink is nothing like the highly refined chocolate of european culture, but it has amazing depth and has been enjoyed since before the time of the Aztec. Sumetimes groceries carry Mexican Chocolate under the Abuelita label.

 

[Gerald Wilgus]

So that`s what it is, interesting. PinkPhilodendron and I were curious about that. This is my favorite, happy blue cow chocolate. It`s delicious.
View attachment 75205

I love chocolate too. If you have a chance to try Mexican Molé, try it. There are many types, but many involve the combination of chocolate and chiles.

 

[PinkPhilodendron]

I once took cooking lessons in Oaxaca where chocolatl is used extravagantly. To buy it there, one goes to a store like Mayordomo and tells the counterman the proportions of coco beans, sugar, bitter almonds and cinnamon (real, Ceylon, cinnamon). And they will weigh it out and grind it all several times in a molina. You are then handed a bag of warm chocolate paste. You hustle home and quickly divide it into patties that then harden. You then use it by putting the patty into an appropriate amount of water or milk let it softem and mix it with a Molinillo that one buys from the Mixtec (see picture). Such a fancy whisk is fitting for chocolatl, and one twirls it between your palms. The drink is nothing like the highly refined chocolate of european culture, but it has amazing depth and has been enjoyed since before the time of the Aztec. Sumetimes groceries carry Mexican Chocolate under the Abuelita label.

This ist so cool! I did not know this existed! Also I thought it was to "bite" not to drink so thank you so much for the info!! I will have to check that out online. The molinillo is very beautiful...

So that`s what it is, interesting. PinkPhilodendron and I were curious about that. This is my favorite, happy blue cow chocolate. It`s delicious.

I did not see that chocolate around here but we do have some with airbubbles in them. I liked them when I was a child because it felt so interesting in my mouth. These days this is my favourite:

 

[PinkPhilodendron]

I haven`t seen that Rapunzel chocolate before. That blue Stratos chocolate is one of the most popular chocolates here. This one is better in a way, chocolate with orange. Now we know what Mexican chocolate is. Thank you Gerald.

I thought I did not know Freia but then I googled them, and they make Kvikk Lunsj!!! I love that stuff. I found it when I went backpacking through norway after studying. Thank you so much for the memory, even if it was not on purpose

 

[PinkPhilodendron]

Yes, sorry @fern_77
<3

 

[fern_77]

You went backpacking through Norway? Maybe we have met before. I`m a big Kvikk Lunsj fan too, it`s the number one hiking chocolate. You can`t go hiking without a Kvikk Lunsj in your pocket. And it`s the number one easter chocolate, you sit in the snow in the sun and eat Kvikk Lunsj and orange. You can`t call yourself Norwegian if you don`t do that.

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My apologies to @fern_77 for going so wildly off-topic in your thread. I`ll try to stop now.

you don't need to apologize, it's okay