• Welcome to Autism Forums, a friendly forum to discuss Aspergers Syndrome, Autism, High Functioning Autism and related conditions.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Private Member only forums for more serious discussions that you may wish to not have guests or search engines access to.
    • Your very own blog. Write about anything you like on your own individual blog.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon! Please also check us out @ https://www.twitter.com/aspiescentral

Why, oh why...

Suzette

Suzette

Well-Known Member
V.I.P Member
This is sort of a rant but please comment if you wish.

Why do n.t.s try to manipulate others? Why don't they simply ask for what they need?
Why do they hint or speak around what is on their minds? Right from the start this is such a bad idea and leads to confusion for everyone.
You don't want pizza? Fine! Please just say so. I don't want to play 20 questions any more. What do you want?

Why the big sighs and dramatic flopping about on furniture? Clearly you are not ok, so why deny it? What is this pantomime about?

And when you behavior was clearly wrong, why can't you appologize? Your "power" does not leak away like a limited life battery. Truly, nothing bad will happen to you. And if I have appologised to you, why do you insist on further emotional punishment? Do you not realize you have erroded my trust?

Why must everything big and small be a discussion. Even about the things that don't involve you?
 
Suzette said:
This is sort of a rant but please comment if you wish.

Why do n.t.s try to manipulate others? Why don't they simply ask for what they need?
Why do they hint or speak around what is on their minds? Right from the start this is such a bad idea and leads to confusion for everyone.
Click to expand...

Bear in mind that such thought processes are not indicative of binary- or autocratic mindsets. One that recognizes not just black and white, but all those "256 shades of grey" in between. Where one may prioritize personal objectives beyond any consideration of morals, ethics or simply being direct.

A concept that admittedly vexes a great many of us on the spectrum of autism.

"Why" indeed. :confused:

Reading a single literary work helped me greatly to understand such thought processes. One where confusion may also be by design. Another "tool" to further a means to an end. Where one may not technically lie about something, but still "sidestep the truth" in terms of masking their actual intentions.

While this work was intended as a formal criticism of autocratic thinking, it could apply to just about anyone willfully and deliberately applying a combination of subterfuge and diplomacy. Though I think it's safe to assume the author was not on the spectrum.

Defaulting to a binary perspective on much of anything remains a precarious proposition in a world that is socially anything but binary. Life's complicated. :eek:

The Prince and The Discourses by Niccolò Machiavelli
 
Last edited:
Some people seem to thrive or maybe feed off these things. It seems how they have become accustomed to interfacing with the world. I'm guessing with some there is a natural component - how their mind works. With others it may be a learned behavior, which would suggest they have been in some way rewarded for doing it, such as by attention or sympathy, getting to share their opinions, etc. And of course it may be a combination of both.

What comes to mind is not indulging the problematic part of their behavior, without ignorring the person entirely. If there is a motivation behind it such as giving them extra attention, not doing so can have an effect. They may give up trying it on you. For instance if two friends want to indulge in a 20 minute basically unessesary discussion on whether to get pizza or not, say something like 'I'm good with whatever, I have a few things to take care of while you are deciding.' And walk away and do some laundry or take the dog for a walk, etc.
 
@Suzette

I wonder if this is a personality trait that is slowly created, perhaps as a kind of competition for or answer to, the other personality traits that have already been created in others.

For those who fall into this way of being, they do it as a way of avoiding being manipulated or controlled. So that if they don't do it, it is easier to be controlled or manipulated, and nobody likes to feel that way, and they think the answer is to do it themselves.

I believe I experienced something like this when I was working in a situation that really wasn't suitable for my temperament. Call it a defence mechanism, based on observation of the way others went about it, and at first it helped to combat those who would manipulate me. The trouble is, that once there is a taste of being able to manipulate, the pattern wants to repeat itself because there is something about it that feels good, even if ultimately it isn't good at all. The trouble is once you've gone down that path it's difficult to come back. It now becomes a part of our character and requires much work or a powerful life experience to be reminded that this is not who I am or should be.
 
Suzette said:
Why do n.t.s try to manipulate others? Why don't they simply ask for what they need?
Click to expand...
Asking is something done on a similar level. It also allows for the possibility of receiving a no.
Manipulating is a way of making sure there's a yes, and it makes the manipulator feel superior, powerful, and is very much like a drug.
 
Are you referring to my wife? She expects me to understand what she means with such phrases as "Go there and do this with that thing," "Where is the," " Did that guy send an email," all with absolutely no context. Sometimes it takes several minutes to figure out what she is talking about.

She is also the Ultimate Authority In All Things. Thus, anyone who disagrees with her, by definition, must be a moron, brain damaged, insane, or an enemy. Anything worth noticing must be criticized, complained about, or insulted, and never miss an opportunity to do so. You may be thinking "Wow, to put up with that the sex must be incredible!" I wouldn't know, there hasn't been any since she announced eight years ago that since she hit menopause, she can't have sex any more.

End of rant
 
I think such behaviors are learned as a child through dynamics that were at least intermittently reinforced. I sorta expect that behavior from man-children who never were denied anything by their mommies.

But I have to admit that I am guilty ocassionally, but my spouse calls me on it in no uncertain terms.
 
Last edited:
The partner I used to have had to have his way. He would pretend otherwise, but the pressure of any change that he didn’t instigate piled up inside him until, one little thing I’d do wrong and it’d all come out. BLAM.
Suzette said:
And when you behavior was clearly wrong, why can't you appologize? Your "power" does not leak away like a limited life battery.
Click to expand...
This is weakneess of character, a lack of backbone/self confidence, and it can just come from a person who grew up in a family which behaved like that. Especially those with lower level of intelligence who cannot understand that it’s actually easier to be clear, logical, and deal with things factually. They’re stuck, instead with emotional games they assume they need to win as much as possible.

this sort of applies:
“You can disagree without being disagreeable.”
— R.B.G.
 
I don’t want to make it sound like I have a problem with all NT’s, because I don’t. But I’ve been manipulated by a lot of them and also learned that some can be pretty “fake.”
Sometimes they don’t even say how they honestly feel about you. I’ve had (NT) friends that led me on for years and kept giving me fake compliments and acting like they really liked me, when they were really talking behind my back and making fun of me. Not only manipulative, but deceitful.
Sometimes they don’t say exactly what they mean, or try to sugarcoat things, or tell white lies because they either don’t want to step on people’s toes or make themselves look bad. I know that sometimes they think they’re doing this with good intentions but it always appears dishonest to me.
Sometimes I’ve had real communication issues with NT friends because I’ll say exactly how I feel about something, and they give me a response like “You didn’t have to be so blunt about it.” But wouldn’t it be worse to sugarcoat it or say something that isn’t what I meant?
I think everyone knows that I’m not a rude person. But sometimes certain NT people make it sound like I said something really mean :( And then I feel guilty!
I know I’m not tactful. But I never mean to offend anyone. So I feel really bad when they make it seem like me saying something really blunt or honest was meant to be mean. But maybe that’s another manipulation tactic some people use? Idk.
Anyway… I get frustrated by it too when they don’t say exactly what they mean. Like why are they not being straightforward?
 
I think it's cool how some of you can do neurological assessments on the fly :cool:
 
Suzette said:
This is sort of a rant but please comment if you wish.

Why do n.t.s try to manipulate others? Why don't they simply ask for what they need?
Why do they hint or speak around what is on their minds? Right from the start this is such a bad idea and leads to confusion for everyone.
You don't want pizza? Fine! Please just say so. I don't want to play 20 questions any more. What do you want?

Why the big sighs and dramatic flopping about on furniture? Clearly you are not ok, so why deny it? What is this pantomime about?

And when you behavior was clearly wrong, why can't you appologize? Your "power" does not leak away like a limited life battery. Truly, nothing bad will happen to you. And if I have appologised to you, why do you insist on further emotional punishment? Do you not realize you have erroded my trust?

Why must everything big and small be a discussion. Even about the things that don't involve you?
Click to expand...

Your experience is a common one. In fact, I think I've commented on this very topic more than once on this forum.

I am not convinced that this behavior is meant to be manipulative,...but you're correct,...it is. It's commonly known as "indirect" language. I believe this language is more meant to be polite, perhaps less "aggressive", or perhaps less "confrontational". Certainly, if you are a "direct" communicator, this behavior can drive you a bit nuts.

On the other hand, if you are using "direct" language, you might be seen as rude and inconsiderate by others who are used to the use of indirect language.

Basically, this comes down to a difference communication styles. Certainly, if you are in a close relationship with this other person, it's helpful to address this issue head on. "It's OK for you to be direct and just say what you want,...I prefer to be spoken to in this manner." Knowing, they may ask you to do the opposite,...to use indirect language whenever possible.
 
Not my intent either. Just discussing experiences with former friends. Sorry if I said something inappropriate :(
 
Neonatal RRT said:
Your experience is a common one. In fact, I think I've commented on this very topic more than once on this forum.

I am not convinced that this behavior is meant to be manipulative,...but you're correct,...it is. It's commonly known as "indirect" language. I believe this language is more meant to be polite, perhaps less "aggressive", or perhaps less "confrontational". Certainly, if you are a "direct" communicator, this behavior can drive you a bit nuts.

On the other hand, if you are using "direct" language, you might be seen as rude and inconsiderate by others who are used to the use of indirect language.

Basically, this comes down to a difference communication styles. Certainly, if you are in a close relationship with this other person, it's helpful to address this issue head on. "It's OK for you to be direct and just say what you want,...I prefer to be spoken to in this manner." Knowing, they may ask you to do the opposite,...to use indirect language whenever possible.
Click to expand...
And hence the problem. Most of us here have problems with indirect communication, whether it be body language, facial expression, implied meaning, subtle intonation, and so forth. It is pretty much the definition of autism. I know I am essentially deaf to all of it. And this is why I have so much trouble understanding them. I find you can't ask them to be more direct, because they already think they are being direct. All of these indirect methods are subconscious, and they don't know they are using them. They also expect this from others, and it bothers them when they are not used or recognized. Since it is subconscious, they perceive it a s "something weird."
 
Last edited:
@Neonatal RRT, @Shamar

This subject and idea of "indirect language" is a stuggle for me. I can not differentiate between what is intentionaly unkind and what is just human clumsiness.

Neonatal RRT, you have commented on another post about my mother. Yesterday she physically pushed me out of the way and took over a job I was comepletely capable of doing very well. I get angry when she does this as she has done this many, many times in my life. When confronted she does not appologize. She justifies her actions with "I just want....". Or some other phrase that is supposed to make me see her actions as justifiable.
And I can't figure out if I am not understanding, if she is wrong in her actions or just what is going on.
Thankfully these incidents happen rarely now that I live in Mexico. I am so frustrated.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

New Threads

Top Bottom