World UFO Day - July 2nd 2015

[Beverly]

About 10 years ago me and some other miscreants got hold of quite powerful projector, and made some simple cardboard and coloured plastic for lenses. Dunedin can have a very thick, heavy ocean mist atmosphere. We pointed it up and projected a series of flashing and spinning lights into the sky, the result was beyond our best hope, it looked like a proper freaky UFO and we could make it seem to move at incredible speeds with tiny movements of the projector, make it look like it had zoomed off into outer space by flicking the projector and turning it off only to have it reappear somewhere else lol

There were a billion phone calls of people seeing a UFO and it was even in the paper lol

Man it looked good

Apparently it is long lived, at least for Duendin residents - they are still seeing UFOs there.

Dunedin UFO Sighting - Google Search

 

[Spiller]

Same.

I think any race advanced enough to cross interstellar space must have made the logical decision to be altruistic - if our own history shows us nothing else, it's that there's no long term profit in deception and aggression, that attitude always comes back to bite you in the end.
I read that 70% of the NASA workforce have some form of autism so, if parallel evolution holds true universally, it stands to reason that our visitors will have a similar attitude of peaceful co-existence and exploration for its own sake as would we.

I see no reason we could not already have been visited - just because we can't build a practical interstellar drive doesn't mean it's not possible, so we haven't been officially contacted because they don't want to risk it yet or because they don't want to interfere in our development.. or they're catching up on episodes of Star Trek..

 

[Tom]

Having humans as the only example of organisms capable of space travel is limiting. Thoughtful speculation adds some possibilities, but I think those can not have as much weight as what we can observe however flawed it might be.

I am going off on a tangent here, just some thoughts I had about our one model of space explorers.

What drove, and drives our space programs?

Here are some I can think of in no particular order:

Earth studies and technologies
Exploration
Politics (especially under the principle that politics is war by other means)
Military Development and Deployment
Need for resources

What drove the first phase of space exploration was the Cold War and primary military and political. Limited to two powers.

The next phase was mixed military, technology, and exploration. Still limited to two powers.

The current phase is also mixed with the same as above and adding of search for resources. Now with a much expanded number of powers participating. My feeling is that the trend is away from exploration and technology and back to competition militarily and for resources.

Its likely I think, unless there is some international catastrophy that bases will be established on the Moon and perhaps Mars, primarily to exploit resources, but having defense capabilities. It may be somewhat similiar to what is going on in the Arctic and Anarctic and Oceans. But on the extraterrestrial bodies there is no defense capability in supporting distance so they would have to have their own.

Who will be the first person killed in war off planet?

 

[Harrison]

What worries me more than anything are the people who call 'BS' on the UFO phenomenon. Over the years I have heard it all from the nay-sayers, ranging from the classic "why do they only show up to Cletus out in the boondocks" to "You're all just plain crazy".

I have challenged people on this, shown them the evidence from air force pilots, commercial pilots, radar operators, majors & generals, police, politicians, as well as astronauts, and they don't budge. It scares me that humanity can be programmed so effectively as to just not see something that is as plain as day. If you can blank people out so logic ceases to be effective, what else can you do?

 

[Tom]

What worries me more than anything are the people who call 'BS' on the UFO phenomenon. Over the years I have heard it all from the nay-sayers, ranging from the classic "why do they only show up to Cletus out in the boondocks" to "You're all just plain crazy".

I have challenged people on this, shown them the evidence from air force pilots, commercial pilots, radar operators, majors & generals, police, politicians, as well as astronauts, and they don't budge. It scares me that humanity can be programmed so effectively as to just not see something that is as plain as day. If you can blank people out so logic ceases to be effective, what else can you do?

I think it is going to take some public irrefutable evidence. Something like the Russians have a press conference where they show a crashed alien spaceship on display for reporters to photograph, and which select foreign scientists are allowed to examine (after they stripped out the 'good stuff' of course ).

Even then there will be those that deny it, but the informed masses will start to shift their basic belief.

 

[Judge]

Much like the paranormal, there are way too many lucid people these days offering to discuss their experiences...and not necessarily for 15 minutes of fame. You just have to be prepared to draw a line between what may actually be happening, and what Hollywood routinely does with such things.

One thing for sure, whatever happened at Rendlesham happened a whole lot more recently than Roswell.

I keep an equally open mind about the possibility of life in outer space every bit as the paranormal. But I'd prefer to avoid any unsolicited, direct encounter with anything extraterrestrial.

 

[Harrison]

One thing for sure, whatever happened at Rendlesham happened a whole lot more recently than Roswell.

I was 'up close and personal', for a while, in the Rendlesham inquiry, the witnesses are impeccable and the evidence is so solid that it cannot be discarded as an illusion.

You might enjoy this...

Edit - to state I am not a fan or follower of Steven Greer, in fact, the opposite is true. This is presented simply for the status of the 'guests'.

 

[Judge]

I was 'up close and personal', for a while, in the Rendlesham inquiry, the witnesses are impeccable and the evidence is so solid that it cannot be discarded as an illusion.

Yes. Too many witnesses, and too many unlike in the case of Roswell, willing to "buck the system".

 

[AGXStarseed]

About 10 years ago me and some other miscreants got hold of quite powerful projector, and made some simple cardboard and coloured plastic for lenses. Dunedin can have a very thick, heavy ocean mist atmosphere. We pointed it up and projected a series of flashing and spinning lights into the sky, the result was beyond our best hope, it looked like a proper freaky UFO and we could make it seem to move at incredible speeds with tiny movements of the projector, make it look like it had zoomed off into outer space by flicking the projector and turning it off only to have it reappear somewhere else lol

There were a billion phone calls of people seeing a UFO and it was even in the paper lol

Man it looked good

Do you have a link to the newspaper article?

 

[qwerty]

No I didn't keep the paper. We were busted so maybe if ya look up ufo hoax projector Dunedin etc you may find it.

Harrison Thanks for the vid.

I have always wondered why Oppenheimer quoted a passage from the Bhagavad-gita

"Now I am become death, the destroyer of worlds"

True, very profound sentiment, but why use obscure vedic wisdoms?
The Nazis were obsessed with the occult and an ancient superior race
to justify their insanity. The Veda were researched thoroughly by the
Nazis, in them there are terrifying descriptions of war in flying vehicles
which used projectile weapons, one passage seems to describe the effect
of a nuclear detonation:

“It was as if all the nature’s forces have been suddenly unleashed. Something dazzling like the sun revolved in circles. Burned with a heat of this weapon, the world was staggering, as in a fever.

Elephants caught fire from the heat and rushed wildly hither and thither in search of protection from the terrible power. Water in the sea turned hot, the animals were dying, the foes were killed and trees were falling in rows under the fury of the forest fire. Elephants blew their trunks fiercely and fell dead on the ground. Horses and chariots were burned on the spot.

Thus, thousands of enemy chariots were destroyed, and then deep silence descended on the sea. Wind began to blow and the earth shined. It was a terrible sight. The corpses of the fallen were mutilated by terrible heat so that they no longer resembled people. Never before have we seen such a terrible weapon and did not hear about it. ” (Drona-parva)


When Oppenheimer was asked if this is the first nuclear explosion, he replied:

"Yes, in modern times,"

I never rule anything out, the world and universe in which we reside are far
different than how we perceive it to be.

 

[tree]

No I didn't keep the paper. We were busted so maybe if ya look up ufo hoax projector Dunedin etc you may find it.

More likely if the year and maybe month
were known. There are lots of UFO
sighting for that area.

 

[Harrison]

qwerty - In answer to why Oppenheimer made that statement you might want to look into the origins of the Vril Society, a group based upon the works of Bulwer Lytton's 'The Coming Race' (1871). Whilst there is no evidence that Oppenheimer was a member, he was certainly aware of the organisation and its manifesto as many of its members were conscripted by the US, UK and USSR after WWII through programs such as Operation Paperclip. Interestingly, those scientists were placed in three areas of research and development. The space program, the industrial war program and genetics (eugenics).

Research into the Vril Society and its sisterhood, the Black Sun, leads to a disturbing counterpoint to what Spiller had put forward. Maria Orsic, who was the matriarchal head, claimed to be in contact with advanced beings of a peaceful and altruistic nature who supplied the Nazi movement with technological expertise. There is ample evidence of that technology now available thanks to the FOA, although much of it is still redacted.

The worrying thing is, why would a peaceful and altruistic race of beings support the Nazi ideology?

The Vril Society is, fundamentally, the creator of what we now call the alternative movement. All of what we see there was instituted following the societies research into Hindu, Tibetan, Chinese and shamanic practises.

I am not a believer in the idea that any race capable of interstellar flight would also have altruistic intent. If nature is consistent then species evolve through dominance over other species, and their own, producing an end product that is likely to be aggressive. Population density or lack of resources would be a prime motivator in leaving a home world.

It is possible that a civilisation could exist long enough to evolve beyond the need for war, but they would be few in numbers and so advanced that they would likely have no interest in any species at the bottom of the ladder. A look at the current work of Mikio Kaku and his ideas on how civilisations evolve is interesting.

The concept of a Star Trek Federation, whilst admirable, would require a virtual dissolution of current societal concepts that could only come about through an event so shocking, so traumatic, that humanity had no other choice. It would arise through a new world order that saw race, colour, religion etc. as meaningless. Given that our world is currently driven by money, war and religion I believe it would take a mass extinction event.

Such an event, if it should occur naturally, could wipe out the very people needed to create a 'federation', thus, we go trolling off into conspiracy land where the MEE is 'managed'. Then we all get banned

 

[qwerty]

qwerty - In answer to why Oppenheimer made that statement you might want to look into the origins of the Vril Society, a group based upon the works of Bulwer Lytton's 'The Coming Race' (1871). Whilst there is no evidence that Oppenheimer was a member, he was certainly aware of the organisation and its manifesto as many of its members were conscripted by the US, UK and USSR after WWII through programs such as Operation Paperclip. Interestingly, those scientists were placed in three areas of research and development. The space program, the industrial war program and genetics (eugenics).

Research into the Vril Society and its sisterhood, the Black Sun, leads to a disturbing counterpoint to what Spiller had put forward. Maria Orsic, who was the matriarchal head, claimed to be in contact with advanced beings of a peaceful and altruistic nature who supplied the Nazi movement with technological expertise. There is ample evidence of that technology now available thanks to the FOA, although much of it is still redacted.

The worrying thing is, why would a peaceful and altruistic race of beings support the Nazi ideology?

The Vril Society is, fundamentally, the creator of what we now call the alternative movement. All of what we see there was instituted following the societies research into Hindu, Tibetan, Chinese and shamanic practises.

I am not a believer in the idea that any race capable of interstellar flight would also have altruistic intent. If nature is consistent then species evolve through dominance over other species, and their own, producing an end product that is likely to be aggressive. Population density or lack of resources would be a prime motivator in leaving a home world.

It is possible that a civilisation could exist long enough to evolve beyond the need for war, but they would be few in numbers and so advanced that they would likely have no interest in any species at the bottom of the ladder. A look at the current work of Mikio Kaku and his ideas on how civilisations evolve is interesting.

The concept of a Star Trek Federation, whilst admirable, would require a virtual dissolution of current societal concepts that could only come about through an event so shocking, so traumatic, that humanity had no other choice. It would arise through a new world order that saw race, colour, religion etc. as meaningless. Given that our world is currently driven by money, war and religion I believe it would take a mass extinction event.

Such an event, if it should occur naturally, could wipe out the very people needed to create a 'federation', thus, we go trolling off into conspiracy land where the MEE is 'managed'. Then we all get banned

Yeah, i was going for a rhetorical question with the whole Oppenheimer thing.
The Vril society and the long haired Maria Orsic who claimed she collected this vril
through her hair were very interesting, scary but interesting,

The Nazi war machine was responsible for some of the most technologically sophisticated
and Rocketry, jet propulsion and they were further along the nuclear path than the Allies.
Without the knowledge supplied by Nazi scientist, physicians and engineers the great leap
forward that was seen in the 21 century would not have happened. No Moon landing no
satellites and the incredible opportunities they offer etc...

I find it interesting that ancient vedic writings which frequently reference vimana; flying
craft that were mechanical in nature which fired thrust driven weapons like missiles.
There are even designs on how to build them and the Nazis took this stuff very seriously.
I keep an open mind as to if we are the first people to have reached such high tech societies.

As Tom mentioned, the only model we have to comprehend motivation for space travel are
our own which are primarily to achieve a strategic advantage on communications, information,
boosting economical possibilities, all very aggressive, self serving unimaginative motives.

I wonder why an alien species would find anything of value on Earth worth exploiting. The
Earth's composition is fairly average, I mean their are fields of asteroids which contain more
accessible minerals etc..
There have been photos coming in showing Pluto's surface and valuable scientific information
it seems from the first images that instead of the frozen marble most people assumed, it has
actual geological activity....and it snows lol.
So the crafts we have sent the furthest into space are focused on curiosity and scientific desire
to learn. I think if a species that is advanced enough to achieve interstellar travel our first encounter would be of a scanning probe scientific in
nature. I imagine there would be great excitement for both species as we exchange theologies, philosophies, scientific understanding etc.. If they were to become aggressive it would be after we
have sussed each other out and become familiar with them.

Stephen Hawkings has just started instigating the biggest and most extensive, expensive search
for intelligent life in the universe, he has the backing of a multi billionaire who has approved
massive funding for at least ten years. Stephen Hawkings has been quoted as saying to paraphrase
it would be stranger to not find signs of life than find it.

I wish there was a conspiracy thread as i have heard some doozies.

 

[Harrison]

Stephen Hawkings has just started instigating the biggest and most extensive, expensive search for intelligent life in the universe, he has the backing of a multi billionaire who has approved
massive funding for at least ten years. Stephen Hawkings has been quoted as saying to paraphrase
it would be stranger to not find signs of life than find it.

It is fascinating how he has changed his position so quickly. Not long ago he was saying we should stay quiet and avoid contact.

Stephen Hawking: Alien contact could be risky

to this

Stephen Hawking announces $100m hunt for alien life

I wish there was a conspiracy thread as i have heard some doozies.

Me too

The thing is, the word 'conspiracy' is banded about too much. It is tagged to anything that might upset the status quo or implicate the truly guilty. If you want to sink any research just call it a conspiracy

 

[Tom]

More speculation on the nature of aliens capable of interstellar space travel.

Size and Form

Assuming a brain-like organ is needed, it would have to have a certain mass sufficient to handle complex thinking. To build machines requires good mobility and appendages sufficiently dexterous. A certain amount of robustness is likely needed to handle the stresses and strains of building first a society and then being capable of space travel.

I imagine then something moving on two or four limbs, with at least two servicable arms with something akin to hands. It could not be much smaller then a large dog but I don't have a good feel for what would constrain its upper size limit. On a hunch I will say the largest size creatures are not the most adaptable and therefore expect aliens not in excess of 15-20 feet in size (height or length).

They would have to have a fairly complex array of sensory organs including vision, hearing, touch and likely smell and taste. They might have others we do not, like those some other animals have (ie Bat Sonar) or others completely new to us.

 

[Harrison]

More speculation on the nature of aliens capable of interstellar space travel.

Size and Form

Assuming a brain-like organ is needed, it would have to have a certain mass sufficient to handle complex thinking. To build machines requires good mobility and appendages sufficiently dexterous. A certain amount of robustness is likely needed to handle the stresses and strains of building first a society and then being capable of space travel.

I imagine then something moving on two or four limbs, with at least two servicable arms with something akin to hands. It could not be much smaller then a large dog but I don't have a good feel for what would constrain its upper size limit. On a hunch I will say the largest size creatures are not the most adaptable and therefore expect aliens not in excess of 15-20 feet in size (height or length).

They would have to have a fairly complex array of sensory organs including vision, hearing, touch and likely smell and taste. They might have others we do not, like those some other animals have (ie Bat Sonar) or others completely new to us.

In my world our space travellers are probably not organic as it makes little sense, unless space travel is relatively instant. Even now we send robots to explore rather than people, it is just more efficient. Give the robots a good AI with a limited base line command and let them go

Also, robots can be altruistic simply because they're programmed that way.

Currently there is research going on at Warwick University into 'downloading' consciousness into an AI, early days though. If it becomes possible then the consciousness (or simalcrum) of the person could travel space within the confines of a robotic body. It would be difficult to determine if that entity was truly alive by our standards.

 

[Tom]

See your point, and that makes sense. We after all first send unmanned spacecraft (ie. Voyager).

So our first contact could very well be with bots. I bet governments first response would be to capture it. Hope it's more like Johnny 5 then Gort.

 

[Harrison]

See your point, and that makes sense. We after all first send unmanned spacecraft (ie. Voyager).

So our first contact could very well be with bots. I bet governments first response would be to capture it. Hope it's more like Johnny 5 then Gort.

There is the idea that the 'Greys' might be manufactured, which might explain their lack of empathy or consideration to humans