Is it normal for all nearly 5 year olds not to listen or is it the autism?

[inlalaland]

I'm back with another of my daily wonders.
My son is a high functioning nearly five year old. I've got basically no experience with kids other than my own.
I see kids out in public that appear to be around his age behaving so well.
He has a very hard time listening.
Examples:
We ask him to stop messing with his sister four and five times and he doesn't stop. We take him out to a store and he very rarely walks with us the whole time. He usually ends up running around and playing something random he comes up with then and there which typically includes him ending up sitting or laying on the floor. I ask him to behave and stop running, yelling, carrying on and he doesn't stop. It is the same thing as when we are home and I ask him to stop messing with his sister, in that I ask a bunch more times and he doesn't stop. My daughter is starting to copy things he does and I worry about her learning all of these behaviors for when we are out in public.
He also constantly worries that his sister will mess with certain toys that he is very particular about where he keeps them. If she does so much as touch one he will yell at her and say she is trying to mess with whatever it is. Meanwhile she is absolutely clueless about his toys and him wanting them where he left them.
I just wonder often if this is typical behaviors or if it is the autism. I figure the placement of the toys is the autism but what about the inability to listen when we ask him to stop doing something?

Thanks a bunch

 

[Cutesie]

It's both. There is nothing unusual for kids at that age to not listen. There are calm kids and hyperactive ones, obedient kids and naughty ones. Seeing other kids that are well-behaved shouldn't automatically mean that yours is acting that way because of the autism.

Often, what distinguishes an autistic person from a neurotypical one is severity. I remember the first time that I looked up Asperger's in DSM-IV-TR. After being stunned to see how much I fit in to the criteria, it dawned on me that every single symptom can be considered "normal" with moderation. This is true even if someone has every symptom. (More than a decade later, I'm still not diagnosed.)

Your son, being autistic, is likely behaving in this way, at least partially, due to the autism. If telling him to listen over and over isn't working, it's not going to suddenly start working. Try learning more - on this platform, from books, perhaps with professional involvement - about how to parent someone with this type of mindset.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

I just wanted to throw in - because you emphasized the "listening" part so much - is his hearing alright? Does he seem to have good hearing in other situations? If you have any doubts there, take him to a pediatrician for a hearing test.
I am just asking because that's always something that should at least be considered as a possibility for "not reacting to talking" or "doesn't listen".

 

[inlalaland]

It's both. There is nothing unusual for kids at that age to not listen. There are calm kids and hyperactive ones, obedient kids and naughty ones. Seeing other kids that are well-behaved shouldn't automatically mean that yours is acting that way because of the autism.

Often, what distinguishes an autistic person from a neurotypical one is severity. I remember the first time that I looked up Asperger's in DSM-IV-TR. After being stunned to see how much I fit in to the criteria, it dawned on me that every single symptom can be considered "normal" with moderation. This is true even if someone has every symptom. (More than a decade later, I'm still not diagnosed.)

Your son, being autistic, is likely behaving in this way, at least partially, due to the autism. If telling him to listen over and over isn't working, it's not going to suddenly start working. Try learning more - on this platform, from books, perhaps with professional involvement - about how to parent someone with this type of mindset.

Thank you for taking the time to reply. I often feel lost on parenting him. I have read some books and they have really opened my eyes but I don't think I've read the right ones yet to help with parenting him. I have a couple that I am waiting on at the library that explain more about his brain because I think that's what I really need to learn more about.
I also often feel bad almost for assuming so much is because of the autism. Then I turn to this page and hope I don't offend anyone with my questions, that is the absolute last thing I would ever want to do. I'm just trying to learn as much as I can so I (and my husband) don't ruin him.

 

[inlalaland]

I just wanted to throw in - because you emphasized the "listening" part so much - is his hearing alright? Does he seem to have good hearing in other situations? If you have any doubts there, take him to a pediatrician for a hearing test.
I am just asking because that's always something that should at least be considered as a possibility for "not reacting to talking" or "doesn't listen".

Thank you. I believe he hears just fine. We often will talk between ourselves, my husband and I, and he will say things like, "Who?" "When is that?". We have found even when we think he can't hear us he will join in the conversation or mention something he heard us say later on. So now we say he is ALWAYS listening even when we think he isn't. So I guess it is funny that I say he doesn't. I guess I should be saying he doesn't follow orders? Directions?

 

[Aspychata]

Have you considered he may have ADD, or ADHD? That restlessness is a key hallmark. Getting him into some type of martial arts may give him purpose, confidence and a routine, critical for ASD. l did ballet around 1st grade, absolutely loved it, it was challenging, and lbwas with my age group. Swimming class is another great class, and will tire him out. At five, my daughter hade a small three wheel bike, and she was out everyday getting exercise. Later she moved on to a scooter, and loved it. Finding great ways to keep him active,

 

[AuroraBorealis]

How about looking for support groups for parents with autistic children? (But, please, stay away from groups/organizations that are trying to "heal" autism with dubious methods)

Books can be overwhelming and also make you overthink many things. You might benefit from joining a group, where you can discuss your actual, real-life struggles with your son and exchange views. It could also help you to see that many things you observe in your son are very common for autistic children, and you're not alone with it.

 

[Aspychata]

Have you considered he may have ADD, or ADHD? That restlessness is a key hallmark. Getting him into some type of martial arts may give him purpose, confidence and a routine, Getting him a three-wheel bike to ride on the sidewalk for at least 30 mins, taking little hikes, going to the playground at this age is crucial, learning how to swim in class. These build up confidence, help him see his peers doing the same. Go to museums, if you have a library, another place to visit. Tell he needs to put on his big boy manners to partake on trips out, and in the house and set a good example for his sister.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

I see kids out in public that appear to be around his age behaving so well.

Don't be fooled by this. For all you know, those kids might be throwing daily tantrums at home, or have just done so an hour ago where you haven't seen it. Or some parents might make their kids behave well by intimidating them and using abusive parenting methods.
I'm just saying this so you cut yourself some slack. We have a selective view. I barely ever see other stimming people with headphones out on the street, but I know that there are many, many of us out there.
It's also confirmation bias. You expect other kids to be better behaved than your son, so you pay more attention to seeing those kids. You might have overlooked the screaming kid across the street because you have been busy keeping tabs on your son.

It might help your feelings to know that many children who come from abusive or neglectful families seem extremely well behaved, to the point that they behave and talk like little adults. This stems from the fact that they are often parentified at home (= take on responsibilities that the parents should do) and/or learn to behave in a way that doesn't attract (negative) attention from the adults surrounding them.
Of course, throwing tantrums and not listening is not ideal. But "good" behavior isn't everything. In a way, your son is also showing you that he feels safe enough in your company to behave in this manner. Not saying it's great, but giving you perspective.

 

[Kayla55]

I hate to break this to you but autism isn't conforming, so forget notion of him behaving like the others. Once hearing is tested and fine, probably won't respond to having name called, our timing on questions or understanding is different. Even being myself on spectrum there were difficult times in public. He may be bit hyperactive too. Space is important, he needs his room as his space to be on his own and so sister may just have to learn boundaries. My ASD would want a toy and he would not stop til he got it, it wasn't fair on his brother who could get over it, so I'd try reward him with another toy, happy enough.
I have thread from long ago about having little space where he can go be alone, with regards to overload.

 

[Rodafina]

I think it is "normal" for 5 year olds to be hugely varied in their behaviors and capability to follow directives. It is not abnormal for a 5 year old to have trouble listening. It is also not abnormal for a 5 year old to listen and behave very well. Autistic or not, there is a wide range during this time due to the inexact process of child development.

One thing that jumps out based on what you've shared is that many children of this age will respond better to being told what to do instead of what not to do. So, instead of, "Stop bothering your sister," you could try something like, "I would like you to leave your sister alone and find something to do." Instead of, "stop running," try, "please use walking feet."

Also, don't forget to focus on positives - many children who have behavior challenges get quite used to negative attention and being told "stop this... don't do that." Reinforcement of positive behaviors can help - "Wow, I really like the way you are walking right now. That is wonderful." Catch them in a good moment and praise their good behavior. It is common for many children to hear far more negative corrections than it is to hear positive, specific, and meaningful praise.

 

[Kayla55]

Daughter attending school will teach her social skills to behave, so small kids being hyper -can get away with, issue is when older kids do this which they do. And um, often it's not just one child as I believed, so depending on diet the symptoms will show under the umbrella. Same when I started diagnosing ADHD in other child at about age 13 and another members grown up brother had never seemingly being diagnosed. So one has asd the other ADHD and may even have both overlapping.

 

[Neonatal RRT]

I'm back with another of my daily wonders.
My son is a high functioning nearly five year old. I've got basically no experience with kids other than my own.
I see kids out in public that appear to be around his age behaving so well.
He has a very hard time listening.
Examples:
We ask him to stop messing with his sister four and five times and he doesn't stop. We take him out to a store and he very rarely walks with us the whole time. He usually ends up running around and playing something random he comes up with then and there which typically includes him ending up sitting or laying on the floor. I ask him to behave and stop running, yelling, carrying on and he doesn't stop. It is the same thing as when we are home and I ask him to stop messing with his sister, in that I ask a bunch more times and he doesn't stop. My daughter is starting to copy things he does and I worry about her learning all of these behaviors for when we are out in public.
He also constantly worries that his sister will mess with certain toys that he is very particular about where he keeps them. If she does so much as touch one he will yell at her and say she is trying to mess with whatever it is. Meanwhile she is absolutely clueless about his toys and him wanting them where he left them.
I just wonder often if this is typical behaviors or if it is the autism. I figure the placement of the toys is the autism but what about the inability to listen when we ask him to stop doing something?

Thanks a bunch

I will preface this with, I don't know what your actual situation is, but from your description above, you are "asking him" to behave and listen. Children this small, as a parent, there is NO NEGOTIATION. You are putting a small child in a position of "choosing" when you ask. They have almost no experience in life. They don't know what they don't know, and if it came to a life-and-death situation, like running out between two parked cars and into the street where he could get run over by a vehicle, you've already established the fact that he has already trained himself not to listen to you despite your protests. I don't see an "autism thing" here. Small children do not get choices. Period. If they don't eat what you put in front of them, they don't eat. They'll get hungry, then they'll eat. I see children all the time in public with "passive parents" that want to be their friend. No, your job is to be a parent, a teacher, a mentor, raise them up so that when they leave your house, they leave for good and are successful, responsible, respectful citizens. This starts from day one, not when "they get old enough". Like I said, I don't know your situation, but your narrative triggered that bit of a rant.

Having said that, a firm, unyielding, authoritarian-style structure is needed. Children, in general, need to "know the rules", whatever they are in your home. There is safety and security in that, for their peace of mind, and yours. How you discipline is your business, but discipline is critical, because children will push every little "button" a parent has to see just how far you are willing to yield to them. You either train them, or they train you. It's pretty much that simple.

In your son's case, for example, he may be focused upon how is toys are arranged, but you need to figure out the location of where they are arranged. That will be your focus. Now, he will know that his toys will be in a particular place (your rule), in a particular order (his rule).

 

[Kayla55]

Thanks you've actually reminded me that all my efforts on farm to give kids exposure to social skills was worthwhile. So even if they not text book normal having siblings and being around does improve social skills.
My dad visits and walks out house to get fresh air, can't make sense of us.

 

[Kayla55]

I will preface this with, I don't know what your actual situation is, but from your description above, you are "asking him" to behave and listen. Children this small, as a parent, there is NO NEGOTIATION. You are putting a small child in a position of "choosing" when you ask. They have almost no experience in life. They don't know what they don't know, and if it came to a life-and-death situation, like running out between two parked cars and into the street where he could get run over by a vehicle, you've already established the fact that he has already trained himself not to listen to you despite your protests. I don't see an "autism thing" here. Small children do not get choices. Period. If they don't eat what you put in front of them, they don't eat. They'll get hungry, then they'll eat. I see children all the time in public with "passive parents" that want to be their friend. No, your job is to be a parent, a teacher, a mentor, raise them up so that when they leave your house, they leave for good and are successful, responsible, respectful citizens. This starts from day one, not when "they get old enough". Like I said, I don't know your situation, but your narrative triggered that bit of a rant.

Having said that, a firm, unyielding, authoritarian-style structure is needed. Children, in general, need to "know the rules", whatever they are in your home. There is safety and security in that, for their peace of mind, and yours. How you discipline is your business, but discipline is critical, because children will push every little "button" a parent has to see just how far you are willing to yield to them. You either train them, or they train you. It's pretty much that simple.

In your son's case, for example, he may be focused upon how is toys are arranged, but you need to figure out the location of where they are arranged. That will be your focus. Now, he will know that his toys will be in a particular place (your rule), in a particular order (his rule).

This worked with small children as if didn't listen I could pick em up and end bad situation.
I had long discussion with lady I knew, by age of 5 a child must know not to steal, and it's best for child. But but but
Adhd children can be over disciplined and this is pre-teen years when oppositional defiance and tyranny take effect, and no, we can't discipline them as normal, while new department I'm learning about that I now have to parent both my children differently.
It's a mess!!!

 

[Kayla55]

I'm no doctor, but scientists suspect that in future DNA tests can reveal persons ability to be a criminal. Even if stole food for sensory reason and acquitted by lawyer, they must receive medical help.

I only now really understand what they meant.

 

[Kayla55]

No apples on any day, means we keep drugs and ADHD doctors away.
Define irony

 

[Kayla55]

No apples on any day, means we keep drugs and ADHD doctors away.
Define irony

This is confirmation for me that Russian female doctor probably first to recognise Asperger's, if not prooven it was mother who took child to doctor was one to identify problems, doctors upon late diagnosis tend to confirm parent findings. Teen girls need high school teachers refering for diagnosis.
Google and WebMD are my best guides to save on doctors bills.

I'm sorry to say this, but my child saw professional therapist who never referred him for ADHD diagnosis, so years later the toll is on our family.
Because speech therapists know there's overall speech cost bundle, but never refer to occupational therapy....at least not where I am.
They still coining it

 

[inlalaland]

I hate to break this to you but autism isn't conforming, so forget notion of him behaving like the others.

Oh, I know to not try to change him. I am simply trying to find out if his behaviors are typical for his age for all children, those who are autistic and/or those who aren't.
I'm trying to do my best daily, it's a very complicated task at times.

 

[DrBadStrings]

Just commenting on the initial post as I don't have time to read everything right now. You say you ask him to behave but you don't mention any consequences or punishment. And I am most certainly not suggesting anything physical but there should be consequences. If you are just asking and hope that won't get you very far. Maybe if he doesn't behave he doesn't get to use a favorite toy for an amount of time. Something. But without consequences there isn't much hope. In my view anyways.

Growing up my parents always went the talk route 1st and then if there were issues a mild punishment. Eventually I learned to listen to them. Now to be clear they would speak to me as an adult and explain the why of having to behave.