Advice please !

[Susie]

Hi
I have a friend who is “odd”. Keeps themselves very much to themselves , avoids social scenes and has few friends just work colleagues . He is male aged 25 . Wears a hat a lot and has some odd habits and interests! Really old fashioned in an old man way and eats same food daily .Anything out if the routine of daily life throws him off kilter . Strangely childlike too with school boy sense of humour but very bright .
The reason I am asking is that I am very fond , platonically , of my friend but feels he needs help . He is on medication for depression and does not go out a lot. There is an almost complete lack of empathy or interest in other people’s lives and it has been commented upon . I always am the one to suggest things or make contact . I have gently questioned does he have aspergers and he says maybe yes .
Any ideas anyone ? Many thanks

 

[Sarah S]

To me it sounds like he MIGHT have ASD yes but thee could also be some other diagnosis in the mix so to say . the best way you can help him is to let him know and understand (this might take some time tho so patience ) that you actually whant to be there for him as a friend. Trying to push youre self on him will only make him move back so again let time go and continue what youre doing dear , may by cut of the asking if hes Asperger or ASD . and perhaps ask if youre allowed to come see him someday (he wont take that initiative probably so its up to you to take it im afraid)

Not al that are eccentric have a NSD diagnose dear. and also due to his Bipolar disorder (new name for depression) this might also contribute to him being withdrawn and so on but again based on what youe describing and his answer id say YES most probably he does have ASD (and yes Asperger (a part of ASD spectrum) would be the probable diagnose and he probably also knows this based on the way he answered as well.

The world needs more like you dear bless you for caring

 

[Autistamatic]

Hi @Susie and welcome to the forum

What you describe about your friend does certainly raise the possibility that he is on the spectrum but is by no means conclusive. I would suggest that there are two main possibilities:

1. That he already knows he is on the spectrum but says "maybe" because he does not feel comfortable sharing it with you.
2. That he suspects but has not chosen to pursue a formal diagnosis as yet.

Before we can comment any more I feel I must ask - Why do you think he needs help? What is wrong with his life, as you see it, that suggests it needs intervention to improve it?

 

[Sarah S]

Hi @Susie and welcome to the forum

What you describe about your friend does certainly raise the possibility that he is on the spectrum but is by no means conclusive. I would suggest that there are two main possibilities:

1. That he already knows he is on the spectrum but says "maybe" because he does not feel comfortable sharing it with you.
2. That he suspects but has not chosen to pursue a formal diagnosis as yet.

Before we can comment any more I feel I must ask - Why do you think he needs help? What is wrong with his life, as you see it, that suggests it needs intervention to improve it?

From my side id say

i agree that many signs are there for a ASD diagnose but as i also said that he him self put it in this words more or less confirms it

Id go with option one as if he dident really wanted to talk to her about this then he would just said plain no im not

The reason she is concerned is as is alredy stated he bipolar and we al should be able to agree that bipolar (im one my self ) is a dangerous diagnose . and also as lone wolf i can also state that although i dont activly seek out my friends i let them come to me when they wont to (well i have 2 here in reel life ) i can say that im always HAPPY to receive them when they actually decide to come here or invite me to them.

I personally dont see anything wrong in her as his friend shows concerns in how he lives his life . Based on that she alredy knows about his established diagnosis. And last if we had more like her in the world that utliest reacted when they see someone being " out of the ordinary " and asking others for advice this world would be so mush brighter for people like us that have different ASD diagnosis or just being lone wolfs or whatever.

even us lone wolfs need someone looking after and care for us (me included i have my own DEAR friend checking in by phone mostly every day and is there when ever i need him )

 

[Autistamatic]

due to his Bipolar disorder (new name for depression)

It is untrue to suggest that being bipolar and suffering from depression are the same thing - they are different diagnoses requiring very different care and treatment. Bipolar disorder is a re-designation of what was formerly called "Manic Depression". A significant driver in changing the name was to avoid confusion with depression.

The reason she is concerned is as is alredy stated he bipolar

As defined above, there's been no mention of being bipolar, only depression which is being treated. The same is true of a great many of us in both the ASD & NT populations, and it does not necessarily raise such concerns in our nearest and dearest.

Very few us on this forum have any medical or psychological training so we are not in a position to make even speculative diagnoses, only offer opinions. I realise you are trying to help, with the best of intentions, but we must take care when offering advice lest we make a situation worse. It's bad enough when doctors get it wrong, but at least they are covered by malpractice insurance.

I see no problem in her expressing concern for her friend, but I for one would like to hear from the OP what she perceives as the problem requiring intervention before making any assumptions or recommendations based on limited information.

 

[Susie]

To me it sounds like he MIGHT have ASD yes but thee could also be some other diagnosis in the mix so to say . the best way you can help him is to let him know and understand (this might take some time tho so patience ) that you actually whant to be there for him as a friend. Trying to push youre self on him will only make him move back so again let time go and continue what youre doing dear , may by cut of the asking if hes Asperger or ASD . and perhaps ask if youre allowed to come see him someday (he wont take that initiative probably so its up to you to take it im afraid)

Not al that are eccentric have a NSD diagnose dear. and also due to his Bipolar disorder (new name for depression) this might also contribute to him being withdrawn and so on but again based on what youe describing and his answer id say YES most probably he does have ASD (and yes Asperger (a part of ASD spectrum) would be the probable diagnose and he probably also knows this based on the way he answered as well.

The world needs more like you dear bless you for caring

Hi @Susie and welcome to the forum

What you describe about your friend does certainly raise the possibility that he is on the spectrum but is by no means conclusive. I would suggest that there are two main possibilities:

1. That he already knows he is on the spectrum but says "maybe" because he does not feel comfortable sharing it with you.
2. That he suspects but has not chosen to pursue a formal diagnosis as yet.

Before we can comment any more I feel I must ask - Why do you think he needs help? What is wrong with his life, as you see it, that suggests it needs intervention to improve it?

 

[Susie]

Thank you all . He wants to
Have relationships and a family and I believe is lonely at times and says I couldn’t imagine what it’s like to be him . I do
Visit for tea at times and we have a good chat in that he opens up a bit about his problems . But what I find odd is that the conversation is only EVER about him and his life . He never asks questions about ones own life or expresses interest at all . Same is someone is ill in work .. no expression of remorse or empathy whatsoever and people do comment . Plus in social situations he just stands there and looks lost and stressed .

 

[Sarah S]

It is untrue to suggest that being bipolar and suffering from depression are the same thing - they are different diagnoses requiring very different care and treatment. Bipolar disorder is a re-designation of what was formerly called "Manic Depression". A significant driver in changing the name was to avoid confusion with depression.

As defined above, there's been no mention of being bipolar, only depression which is being treated. The same is true of a great many of us in both the ASD & NT populations, and it does not necessarily raise such concerns in our nearest and dearest.

Very few us on this forum have any medical or psychological training so we are not in a position to make even speculative diagnoses, only offer opinions. I realise you are trying to help, with the best of intentions, but we must take care when offering advice lest we make a situation worse. It's bad enough when doctors get it wrong, but at least they are covered by malpractice insurance.

I see no problem in her expressing concern for her friend, but I for one would like to hear from the OP what she perceives as the problem requiring intervention before making any assumptions or recommendations based on limited information.

You got me there i stand back as my former was as you said Manic depression and also just checked it up youre right thanks for clearing this up to me as well (its been confusing me as well i have to admit)

based on this new information i again have to agree NEVER the less its nothing wrong in someone being concerned

As i said earlier i never ever stated that im a qualified expert in any of this and al i do is to go on how i view said situation based on my own life and also MANY broken /Lost souls od balls, What we over here calls " originals" (my former landlord was actually this Original man ) /outcasts etc... That i have helped and talked to in forums just like this for many years. And i agree and and will therefor respectfully stand down

 

[Susie]

I know this person takes anti depressants and is quite isolated . I just want to help but basically I suppose I don’t want to be a pest . It is interesting that you say that friends come to you .. I always suggest a meet up or a coffee and a chat and he seems genuinely pleased to see me and likes to offload and chat . But it is ALWAYS me who makes the suggestion .. is this normal in aspergers ? He says he is not pro active but always seems glad to meet up . I am quite a selfless person who wants to help and cares but I have struggled with the one sided almost narcissistic nature of conversation .. it really is all about them . Is this a trait of aspergers ? The ability to talk about oneself and Interests non stop with little interest in the persons life as in a normal two way friendly conversation , plus this loner streak and desire to have very few people around ( I am welcome it seems ) . This is all new to me and I get confused so am trying to learn more to help .

 

[Sarah S]

I can only answer based on my own diagnosis of course and i leave the is this normal for Asperger to those better suited then me to answer that one as im female and the different symptoms are different between us and males . But from those MEN with Asperger ( diagnosed Mild - Moderate to severe and other NSD diagnosis and problem) that i talked to over the years id say yes it seem this way. Yes im the same when they come over as well or when being invited or they phone me or we talk in forums like this again i leave that to others more suited then me to answer. Well with my different diagnosis(seen in my sig and profile ) and why i somewhat clumsy responded to Autistamatic when i shouldent have i can easily recognize in his behavior as i am similar and most defenetly a lone wolf BUT as also been stated only a professional can state whether it is or not and what it is . In general id say that NSD diagnosis are are highly individual tho so

With me as a lone wolf (etc...) i can relate to him being happy that you show interest and care for him and this is why i suggested keep going he will let you know if he begins to be bothered. As i have stated elsewhere in here for me a lone wolf etc i have no craving to have many friends i rather have a few that i can call my REEL friends that are there and realy do care and will be there when im in need of reel friends

 

[Autistamatic]

I know this person takes anti depressants and is quite isolated . I just want to help but basically I suppose I don’t want to be a pest . It is interesting that you say that friends come to you .. I always suggest a meet up or a coffee and a chat and he seems genuinely pleased to see me and likes to offload and chat . But it is ALWAYS me who makes the suggestion .. is this normal in aspergers ? He says he is not pro active but always seems glad to meet up . I am quite a selfless person who wants to help and cares but I have struggled with the one sided almost narcissistic nature of conversation .. it really is all about them . Is this a trait of aspergers ? The ability to talk about oneself and Interests non stop with little interest in the persons life as in a normal two way friendly conversation , plus this loner streak and desire to have very few people around ( I am welcome it seems ) . This is all new to me and I get confused so am trying to learn more to help .

All of what you describe is behaviour that is quite common for someone who is on the spectrum, however it still doesn't answer why you think he needs help? What is it you think he needs help with? Does he want to be helped?

 

[the_tortoise]

He never asks questions about ones own life or expresses interest at all . Same is someone is ill in work .. no expression of remorse or empathy whatsoever and people do comment .

He may not know what to ask people (no questions come to mind), not know what is appropriate to ask (questions come to mind but he has no idea if they are too personal or inappropriate/unwelcome in some other way), and/or sort of expect people to tell him whatever they want him to know about themselves.

If you, personally, want to tell him things about yourself, you should just tell him things about yourself.

If it bothers you that he never asks about your life, you should let him know that it bothers you and explain why it bothers you. You could also directly request that when you meet up, he asks you a question or two about your life. Explicitly communicating your perspective, thoughts, and feelings to him and asking clearly for what you want/need is one of the most helpful things you can do.

Not showing visible signs of empathy or concern/not expressing empathy/concern in typical ways doesn't mean he doesn't have any -- many autistic people express empathy in atypical ways, or cannot express it at all, but they still have empathy for others.

Remorse is a feeling about one's own actions, not the experiences of other people....so I'm not sure what you mean with that one -- do you mean he does things that upset other people and shows no remorse? Again, he may feel bad but not know how to express his feelings or make things right -- not in a way that most people understand, at least. Does anyone ever explain to him why other people are upset (not just "because you did/said [whatever thing]", but a detailed explanation of how the other person perceived the situation, interpreted his words/actions, and was affected by his words/actions)?

He is on medication for depression and does not go out a lot.

Do you think he should go out more? If so, why? Maybe he likes it better staying at home most of the time. Everyone is different and has different needs and preferences.

 

[Bedlamite]

I believe is lonely at times and says I couldn’t imagine what it’s like to be him . I do

Greetings Susie and welcome to the forum. As implied in your post, you have the utmost concern for your friend and an heartfelt desire to help him. However, it is extremely imperative not to make any assumptions as to what is going on in his mind. As @Autistamatic stated, no one here on the forum are qualified to give an accurate diagnosis concerning your friend's behavior. Having said that, it does seem he exhibits certain peculiarities that are linked to people on the spectrum. However, most of us that are on the spectrum, also have a strong sense of "privacy", for individual reasons. So, to assume you "know" what he is experiencing would be a grave mistake and if at any time you discuss your "assumptions" with him, it could potentially drive him deeper within himself or at worst you could drive him away. Be patient and continue trying to get him to "open up", but be careful not to be too presumptuous or assertive.

 

[Theta.G]

Don't force, coerce or manipulate him into social situations. You might like social situations, but he obviously does not and it will make things worse. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. Even though you have good intentions, i would certainly think less of the person who tries to make me do things that cause great distress, against my will. Knowing full well it causes distress. And if you do approach the invitation in a manipulative manner then despite your intentions you will be viewed as manipulative and not to be trusted. Lets say you did coerce him into going to a party with you, where he knows nobody. That's going to be a terrible experience, one that he may inadvertantly tie to you.

You should note that anti depressants tend to cause inhibition of emotions. Making one feel and appear emotionless. In many, many people who take them.Much of what you're describing could be tied to the drug, he may not be aspie.

"There is an almost complete lack of empathy or interest in other people’s lives and it has been commented upon" Unless you happen to be a psychologist don't try to fix things beyond your ability. Especially in another person. Stuff like this is very complicated and usually involves very heavy and solid emotional blockages among other things. Approaching it half-hearted will only make it worse. Halfhearted in this case is anything less than you would do for your own spouse whom you love deeply.. Right. I'm talking about months of research and study to truly understand the situation and your friend that's the kind of thing that's required. You go all in in order to "fix" things / to help that person massively grow/change.

It has been commented upon... just wondering do you talk about him this way to other people in your life?
It's natural for people to want to help others but in this situation the best you can do is...
- Not be someone who tries to gain his trust. Be a trust worthy person instead.
- Be supportive
- Hang out and do things together away from the public. Unless you can't stand being alone with him.

Eventually you could say something like oh i'm going to a concert tonight, would you like to come with me? If he says no, drop it completely and don't push any further for a while. When he is ready, one day he'll say yes. Or he will let you know that he wants to go out. If not, is it a really that big of a deal? You can still hang out together on your own or in small groups.

As your relationship grows and you trust each other more you'll both open up. The path of least resistance. That's when you can start working together to change things. This explanation of a feeling of when it reaches that point is ambiguous but i hope you catch my jist.

Don't try to change him to conform to what others view as a good life.Let him be him.
be...
trustworthy. Genuine. Considerate...
Basically, if you want to help him... just be a good friend.

 

[George Newman]

So the other day my neighbor came over to my house to say, “hello”. I invited my neighbor in and we exchanged plesentries.

My neighbor is a really good neighbor and we help each other from time to time with yard related tasks that easily require two people to effectively manage. I appreciate my neighbor.

After a few more pleasantries my neighbor asks, “so what are your plans for the interior of this place?” I replied, “what you see are my plans realized.” Upon which my neighbor replies, “this can’t be it; you need help sprucing this place up.”

See I live a very sparse life these days. I prefer a minimalist debt-free life. This means that the interior of my house looks bare and second-hand compared to my neighbors house. It is my choise.

My neighbor wanted to fix me based on his understanding of what normal is. I don’t need help with the interior of my house and don’t want help with the interior of my house.

My neighbor is well-intentioned and a good neighbor.

 

[Autistamatic]

Very, very good analogy there George. Bravo!

 

[Pats]

Hi Susie. I think it's great that you have such concern for your friend. I also think it sounds like a highly possible assumption of being on the spectrum, and most people on the spectrum deals with depression. When he says you have no idea what it's like to be him, are you assuming loneliness? If he is on the spectrum, his mind, his needs, what he wants out of life is completely different from what you would think. It's very difficult being around other people and he needs his alone time, it sounds. Everything around him - sounds, lights, textures, etc are magnified and he may need to be in his own environment where he can control these things. Perhaps going to work is all he is able to muster and needs to go home.
Does not sound bipolar, unless you've just left out the abnormal highs. Someone bipolar may lay in bed for 2 weeks and do nothing, then spend the following 2 weeks shopping for a sail boat or things not in his means. Depression is a chronic low, while bipolar is jumping from high to low to high to low with no middle ground.
It's nice you are a good, caring friend - don't expect too much too fast - it could take years to become comfortable around a person. Don't give up on the friendship, but be patient.

 

[Judge]

I am quite a selfless person who wants to help and cares but I have struggled with the one sided almost narcissistic nature of conversation .. it really is all about them . Is this a trait of aspergers ? The ability to talk about oneself and Interests non stop with little interest in the persons life as in a normal two way friendly conversation , plus this loner streak and desire to have very few people around ( I am welcome it seems ) . This is all new to me and I get confused so am trying to learn more to help .

It's true that this can or might be an individual trait of Autism Spectrum Disorder. Though it's critical to understand that those on the spectrum of autism can have any number of traits and behaviors, and at different intensities (amplitudes). Then factor in that there's no telling how many of such traits and behaviors may be neurologically "hard-wired". Leaving us with any number or combination of positive or negative traits and behaviors which we may or may not be able to alter if we choose to do so. In this context, we're quite a mixed bunch not to be stereotyped.

What some of us here may be concerned about is what you mean by "help". A sincere and innocent attempt to somehow improve his life in interacting with others, or is it really your intent to somehow get him to relate to others more like yourself? In essence for him to behave more as a Neurotypical person, rather than as the Neurodiverse person that he may well be.

You do seem to understand who- and what he is. This is good. Though from our perspective, at this point what may be most critical is to be willing to accept him as he is, even if just as a friend at work. Without any compulsion or "missionary complex" to want to change him socially, even with the best of intentions on your part.

This isn't indicative of a choice on our part, but rather that in most cases that we must simply be who and what we are, for better or worse relative to a Neurotypical social majority. Something so easily lost to most Neurotypicals who initially engage socially with someone on the spectrum of autism, who default to wanting us to conform to how they think and act, whether we are capable of it or not. The one dynamic for so many of us that can make life such a struggle on a daily basis.

As @George Newman posted above, what is neurologically and socially "normal" for you, isn't necessarily the same for us.

 

[Tom]

The thing about drawing someone out of there shell is you are never quite sure what will emerge.

But as far as being on the spectrum ('Aspergers' is an obsolete diagnosis btw, at least in USA) it may be, or may not be. Whichever, I think you would best keep your thoughts on it to yourself. If spread about publically there are many who look down upon it it and will stigmatize the individual.

 

[Sarah S]

But as far as being on the spectrum ('Aspergers' is an obsolete diagnosis btw, at least in USA)

Hence i say ASD = Autistic spectrum disorder were among others Asperger ,Autistic and cant remember the last one is al lumped in one