Alcohol/Smoking/Et Cetera

[tlc]

My folks used to smoke and it used to make me sick. I still can't stand it, so I would never do it myself. Drinking or drugs, I don't like what it does to people, and the trouble you can get into after consuming it. So I don't want those either.

 

[Fino]

HOLY MOLY I FOUND THE PERSON WHO IS THE EXACT OPPOSITE OF ME LOL I can't answer this thread right now, I'm too giddy.

HERE I AM...

THE EMBODIMENT OF EVERYTHING YOU'RE AGAINST.

Sorry for the obnoxious caps, my brain thinks in obnoxious caps. I'll comment something less obnoxious soon/later.

 

[Fino]

First, I know a lot of people who entirely reject all drug use. They're the ones that have helped me the most! Almost everyone I went to college with had never and said they would never try drugs of any kind. All pianists, if that's at all a factor.

Second, I would love to hear your 1,000s of reasons! Maybe it'd be helpful to me! My psychiatrist is so worried about my using drugs that he avoids prescribing anything potentially pleasurable, except he thinks so highly of Adderall that he prescribed that one anyway. But boy is he paranoid about me having that one!

Next, as a general logic thing that many have said similarly, I just want to go off on your statement about analyzing risk and benefits. Decisions are made when that analysis leads to the conclusion that the benefits outweigh the risk, yeah? So maybe your question could be stated more specifically as, "How does it become that the benefits of drug abuse could possibly outweigh the risks?" And perhaps adding, "Or how does one come to believe that the benefits outweigh the risks?"

General answers to that, some touched on by others already:
1. An escape from pain
2. Peer pressure
3. To feel good
4. Boredom
5. Stupidity

Now to answer, "I want to know from the point of view of those who consume these drugs why they do it, more importantly, why they started doing it, in as much detail as they can. Thank you," I'll do in a separate post instead of having one massive post.

I like knowing that there are people like you in the world!

 

[Pats]

You know, if I think back - definitely wasn't peer pressure because I had no friends. I started smoking cigarettes because it was so easily accessible and I just did. Neither of my parents smoked. But I do remember why I started smoking pot. Because my parents and all the teachers accused me of it - my parents would search any letters I got before giving it to me - checking for pot, and so on. So I decided if I was going to be accused of it anyway, I may as well do it.

 

[Pats]

@SUM1 This tends to be a sensitive subject because sometimes the reasons are very personal and for those with addictions (my smoking included), it's easy to feel attacked these days. But aside from your questions I would like to say that I am glad you choose not to do these things and hope you always feels this way and continue to avoid it. Hopefully you will be a little more understanding of those who do, but I think we are all probably glad for you that you don't.

 

[Fino]

If anything can come out of this post, I want to know if there are other people like me, and I want to know from the point of view of those who consume these drugs why they do it, more importantly, why they started doing it, in as much detail as they can. Thank you.

I started having simple partial seizures when I was ten, but I wasn't allowed to see a doctor (Christian Science) so I didn't know what it was and just thought I was insane. It felt like a weird squeezing sensation and there was a distant scream and I often stayed up all night experiencing that.

Starting from age 11, I was hit a LOT. Years and years, lots. The details aren't relevant, but I was like a boxer who never hit back. So much violence!

I have always been bothered by noise and filth, but somehow my entire family is the opposite and always created a home of cockroaches, dirt, barking dogs, and yelling. Anything that bothered me meant I was just trying to get attention and them wondering what's wrong with me.

I didn't have any friends so was very isolated and by time I was thirteen felt that I was supposed to be hurt, that the reason I existed was to please other people. I felt unbearably uncomfortable being comfortable so I started self-harming, cutting. Covering the floor of the shower with blood was satisfying.

When I was sixteen, I stopped going to school and got a job at a movie theater. People there were horrible, but at some point I went to a party where I drank for the first time, not really understanding what it was and just being told to do it. And for the first time in probably ever, I FELT OKAY.

So I kept drinking, on and off in varying amounts for about seven years. It helped with the seizures. It also helped with the fact that around fifteen, I developed a sexual attraction for the abuse I had been enduring, also developing PTSD at the same time. So I'd be triggered every few seconds, be confused and ashamed of arousal, as well as panicked and frightened of the memory.

I often binge-drank, hoping I'd black out and not wake up.

I took random amounts of random pills, hoping for the same but always just got sick, which was also preferable to the prior state.

I had periods of confusion about reality and identity, whether or not I really existed, who I was, was I of equal value to other people. Hurting myself didn't feel like hurting a person, and drugs and alcohol had no risk, only reward. Pleasure is good, pain is good, death is good. All good.

Also, I had a theory that if I were stupider I would be happier. I was hoping drugs and alcohol would make me dumb enough to feel okay.

I entered into abusive relationships and did everything I could to stay, because that was when I felt most okay.

I started doing other kinds of drugs, like ecstasy, lsd, shrooms, and a bunch of others I won't list, along with various anxiety and amphetamine meds. While on these stronger drugs, all of the weight that constantly tried to kill me, the shifting realities, the confusion, the PTSD and memories were all reduced to a little bunny. So I kept doing it

I have Borderline Personality Disorder and ADHD, as well, so of course those are factors.

I attempted suicide countless times and, without a lot of these drugs, I would have continued trying. In my mind, the option was to be high or kill myself. And I usually chose to be high.

Thank God for drugs. I'm lucky to be alive. I no longer abuse drugs and would like to keep it that way, but I'm happy they were there. Of course, it would have been nice if I didn't do that. It also would have been nice to not be abused, neglected, and mentally ill. But apparently what's nice is often not what is.

Does any of that explain anything at all to you, or are you still in utter confusion?

 

[Pats]

I started having simple partial seizures when I was ten, but I wasn't allowed to see a doctor (Christian Science) so I didn't know what it was and just thought I was insane. It felt like a weird squeezing sensation and there was a distant scream and I often stayed up all night experiencing that.

Starting from age 11, I was hit a LOT. Years and years, lots. The details aren't relevant, but I was like a boxer who never hit back. So much violence!

I have always been bothered by noise and filth, but somehow my entire family is the opposite and always created a home of cockroaches, dirt, barking dogs, and yelling. Anything that bothered me meant I was just trying to get attention and them wondering what's wrong with me.

I didn't have any friends so was very isolated and by time I was thirteen felt that I was supposed to be hurt, that the reason I existed was to please other people. I felt unbearably uncomfortable being comfortable so I started self-harming, cutting. Covering the floor of the shower with blood was satisfying.

When I was sixteen, I stopped going to school and got a job at a movie theater. People there were horrible, but at some point I went to a party where I drank for the first time, not really understanding what it was and just being told to do it. And for the first time in probably ever, I FELT OKAY.

So I kept drinking, on and off in varying amounts for about seven years. It helped with the seizures. It also helped with the fact that around fifteen, I developed a sexual attraction for the abuse I had been enduring, also developing PTSD at the same time. So I'd be triggered every few seconds, be confused and ashamed of arousal, as well as panicked and frightened of the memory.

I often binge-drank, hoping I'd black out and not wake up.

I took random amounts of random pills, hoping for the same but always just got sick, which was also preferable to the prior state.

I had periods of confusion about reality and identity, whether or not I really existed, who I was, was I of equal value to other people. Hurting myself didn't feel like hurting a person, and drugs and alcohol had no risk, only reward. Pleasure is good, pain is good, death is good. All good.

Also, I had a theory that if I were stupider I would be happier. I was hoping drugs and alcohol would make me dumb enough to feel okay.

I entered into abusive relationships and did everything I could to stay, because that was when I felt most okay.

I started doing other kinds of drugs, like ecstasy, lsd, shrooms, and a bunch of others I won't list, along with various anxiety and amphetamine meds. While on these stronger drugs, all of the weight that constantly tried to kill me, the shifting realities, the confusion, the PTSD and memories were all reduced to a little bunny. So I kept doing it

I have Borderline Personality Disorder and ADHD, as well, so of course those are factors.

I attempted suicide countless times and, without a lot of these drugs, I would have continued trying. In my mind, the option was to be high or kill myself. And I usually chose to be high.

Thank God for drugs. I'm lucky to be alive. I no longer abuse drugs and would like to keep it that way, but I'm happy they were there. Of course, it would have been nice if I didn't do that. It also would have been nice to not be abused, neglected, and mentally ill. But apparently what's nice is often not what is.

Does any of that explain anything at all to you, or are you still in utter confusion?

I'm sorry Fino that you've had to go through all this. I'm glad you're around now.

 

[Fino]

I'm sorry Fino that you've had to go through all this. I'm glad you're around now.

Thank you very much. Me too!

 

[Theta.G]

FI don't get why people start doing it
- Peer pressure.
- Programmed disposition through the environment.
- Because it's very effective at treating many conditions.
- Dissolves inhibitions.
- Socially acceptable.

and I especially don't get why autists start doing it, in their supposedly more logical thinking.
Lol.
Quit drinking 5 years ago. I can tell you right now that was a bad decision. Health and life quality got worse.

In general most people start drinking in their teenage years. As a teenager are you going to be intensely studying the implications of your choices? No. Because you're busy studying pointless garbage in school to get good grades and gain favor with your parents. Or rebelling against that which is. In many cases it isn't a choice. If you've grown up with a family that drinks, have been subjected to alcohol adverts and commercials over the years then have a drastic, negative life changing experience where you have no assistance afterwards? You are going right to the bottle. It doesn't matter how much "will" power you exert the program is already installed into your subconscious mind which is infinitely more powerful than your conscious mind. There are barely any adults who understand this what chance do you think a teenager has?

You're still young with plenty of life to experience and will come to understand what makes people drink in your 20's.

 

[Progster]

I have the odd glass of red wine with a meal, I drink coffee and I once tried magic mushrooms so I'm no goody two shoes, but I have NEVER smoked tobacco or pot or any other drug. Particularly tobacco smoking - why would anyone want to inhale burning plant matter into their lungs? That's not what lungs are for and it's asking for trouble. It also stinks - I can smell it a mile off, even when the person isn't smoking, I can still smell it. It's expensive and just seems like a shortcut to the grave to me. I really don't know why it's so desireable and popular, I guess I'd have to try it for myself to find out why and there's absolutely no way I'm going to do that. As with any drug, prescription and non-prescription, there are benefits but also side affects, but here the potential harm and side affects far outweigh the benefit. I know that many people started to smoke years ago when the dangers were not fully understood, but I still don't get why people weren't put off by the smell or the whole idea of inhaling burning plant matter into their lungs. I have never experienced it or felt the desire, so I can't relate to it. I don't get why anyone would want to start now, when people are fully aware of the risks - as people here state, it's an impulse decision, or peer pressure, or a need to feel different and the immediate need or impulse trumps the long term danger - the impulse is immediate, but the danger isn't. Most people act on emotions or on impulse, and not on logic. If people acted on logic, very few people would actually choose to smoke or take any potentially harmful drug.

 

[sparks]

When I was 13 yrs old my older brother used to give a little bit of his cigarette at night because we both found it funny at how it would make me dizzy. This led to me starting to smoke regularly. I was also introduced to alcohol at 12 yrs old at home and was brewing my own larger at 14 yrs old.
I was addicted to cigarettes but the alcohol served a different purpose. I found that alcohol helped me cope with social interactions and also helped with low moods. I became dependent on alcohol, drinking every night and knew that it was affecting my health but I felt that I couldn't/didn't want to live without it.
Luckily for me, as I got into my 50's the alcohol started having a negative effect, I was suffering from bouts of low mood for days after drinking so with the help of my partner, I gave up drinking. I would still need alcohol to cope with social gatherings so now I just avoid them.
I moved from cigarettes to vaping over 7 yrs ago and feel much better.

 

[Crossbreed]

I drink a small amount of alcohol to help me relax before I go to bed. I have no interest in pickling my liver.

Smoking holds no appeal for me. Even if it weren't addicting, I cannot justify sending concentrated amounts of ash into my lungs.

 

[Moomin]

@Fino

I’m glad that you’re around now. I enjoy reading your posts. I’m sorry that you had a lot to deal with. That sucks.

As for the OP:

I’ve occasionally had a beer...if you can count a low percentage of alcohol as drinking and most of that is watered down to make a panaché. But I definitely do not get fully drunk. I’m not a big fan of alcoholic beverages. I don’t like the taste. Even though my country we can drink at around 14/15. It’s just not a thing here to get drunk (not that it doesn’t happen). I’ve never taken drugs or smoked. But that’s my personal choice. I’ve just never wanted to. I’ve had peer pressure to do these things, including sex, but I’ve never done anything like that. It does NOT make me better than the people who do. And they should be judged for these choices.

 

[Moomin]

Yes, but as I said, that brings us back to how on earth they found those "pros", why the felt they could trust them, what they'd seen of people taking drugs before, all their exposures to the concept in childhood. I've tried to relate my rejection of drugs to my autism/Asperger's, because not only do I never engage in social practices that carry no conceivable proportionate benefit, but I would hate to be out of control of my own mind, but that's clearly failed, because many autists, probably a similar proportion to general people, take drugs (including alcohol).

Not everyone who is not on the spectrum takes drugs, drinks or smokes. It’s important to understand that. It’s not about being on the spectrum that makes you immune to not taking them. People do give into peer pressure, even those on the spectrum, to deny or not fully acknowledge these and other variables means that you’ll never fully get the answers and understanding that you’re aiming for in your original post. Some people are addicted to food. To shopping. To collecting ridiculous items. They are all addictions that can also be as harmful as drugs, drink and smokes.

 

[Autistamatic]

Having read through this thread again this morning, I can't help thinking that it's whole premise is a fallacy. The question of why "supposedly logical" aspies take up potentially harmful habits presumes that people do so as a rational decision, whereas the truth is that is rarely the case.

Many life changing decisions are made without logic or making a risk analysis. Many others are made for us by factors out of our control such as our upbringing.
Take religion as an example. Few people make a conscious decision to follow a particular faith. Christians are most often brought up that way as are Moslems, Hindus, Jews and all the rest. They did not sit down one day and say "Well there are too many gods for me to keep track of to be a Hindu so that's out, I don't fancy praying five times a day so I won't be a Moslem, I like bacon too much to give it up so that rules out Judaism as well - I guess I'd better be a Christian." There are certainly people who DO make a conscious choice to follow a particular faith (or none), but most continue with the one decided by their ancestry, upbringing and place of birth - they had no say in it. It doesn't invalidate their faith but it's unlikely they made an active choice of which God(s) to worship.
Then there's love. "Love is blind" as the saying goes. How many people find themselves in destructive relationships they don't extract themselves from because they love their tormentor? How often do they convince themselves their partner will change if only they have enough time, or the right stimulus? How many people put up with repeated infidelity because they would rather be a part time lover than a full time loner?

Similarly, few people make rational decisions when it comes to harmful habits and addictions. Nobody honestly thinks they will become an addict when they start a habit. Everyone thinks they'll be able to quit - they'll only smoke or drink socially, never alone. They will try that drug just once or twice to see what the fuss is about, just out of curiosity. More often than not people who become addicted to drugs do so at a very low point in their lives. The escape of being "out of it" for a while is an alternative to their hellish existence and they are sure it will be a temporary thing - just until they get their life on track. It's only when they try to stop because life HAS got better, or more likely they've run out of funds to pay for it, that they realise the error of their assumption.

Even rich people who take cocaine often start because they think it gives them an edge. They feel more alive and more energised and believe they will achieve more, but never think it will start to control them. They didn't choose to be addicts, they chose a short term boost.

When we embark on these habits we are not making rational decisions based on benefits and risks. We delude ourselves that the risks are minimal or that we are immune to them.

When I was 14 I attended an anti-smoking morning at my school and I swore I would never do something as stupid as smoke. I looked down my nose at those dirty, smelly losers. By the time I was 15 I was a smoker myself, but it was only going to be a short term thing until I shocked my Dad into giving up. I'd tried everything I could think of to convince him to stop and he wouldn't bloody listen, so this would make him realise how important it was to me for him to give up! A few months later I found out why he found it so difficult and it took me nearly 30 years to kick the habit.

"Never say never again" is more than just a James Bond film - it's very wise saying. To say we will "never" do something or repeat a mistake is a foolish conceit. We do not know what's waiting for us around the corner, what depths life may drag us down to, nor what we will do to escape it. "There, but for the grace of God, go I" also rings very true. You may walk past the homeless addict begging on the street corner, but it only takes a few mistakes in life, or outside influences beyond your control and that could be you. You could be a high flying stock broker living the life of Riley one week, and a homeless beggar the next - all it takes is one stock market crash or some bad investments and you could lose everything.

I'm happy for anyone who can keep themselves clean of drugs and harmful obsessions as long as they can manage it, but I also cannot respect anyone who looks down on others for their weaknesses. No matter how intelligent or logical we are, whether autistic or not, life throws us curve balls and can completely change overnight. Just like the lottery - "It could be you..."

 

[Tom]

The idea that autistics in general are more logical thinking comes from autistics who mistake black and white and fixed thinking with a pinch of arrogance for logical thinking.

Both smoking and drinking often start in some social setting (ie. to fit in) but continue as self medications/addictions, particularly smoking which is very addictive. Not all drinkers become addicted and is sometimes mainly done for desired effect.

 

[Moomin]

Another point. I self harm. That can be considered to be an addiction. And a harmful one too. I made the choice years ago without really considering the pros and cons of my actions. Shame on me. I have tried many ways to stop but the methods have not been successful. I don’t make the rational choice to do this. I don’t enjoy the after effects but it is an addictive because I feel that it works.

 

[WildCat]

You should take that question up with one of the greatest minds on the face of this planet. The man, the myth, the legend himself:

The image even came with an article that I think is relevant to both you and your question.

Also (quoted from the article)...

...To circumvent the doctor’s effort to stop him from smoking, Einstein would scour his neighborhood’s sidewalks to collect discarded cigarette butts to smoke in his pipe....

...please don't do this. Ever. I used to go cigarette butt hunting as described here (sans pipe), and I cannot stress enough just how nasty this is. Characteristically ingenious, but nasty. That is all.

 

[Autistamatic]

If we're going to talk about people who achieve great things whilst actually being addicts then how about this guy.

He managed to guide The UK and Europe through the biggest armed conflict this planet has ever known whilst smoking cigars, drinking very heavily and sporting a legendary amphetamine habit not to mention the cocaine in his younger years.
Whilst no-one in their right mind would suggest that abusing drugs is a good thing or is to be recommended, the phrase "only losers do drugs" is quite a way off the mark. Many great minds including political leaders, scientists, writers, musicians and artists have been addicts and users in their time, sometimes at the most productive times of their lives.

Here's a list of a few others too.
20 Genius Minds and the Drugs they Were Addicted To - DrugAbuse.com

 

[Pats]

@Fino

I’m glad that you’re around now. I enjoy reading your posts. I’m sorry that you had a lot to deal with. That sucks.

As for the OP:

I’ve occasionally had a beer...if you can count a low percentage of alcohol as drinking and most of that is watered down to make a panaché. But I definitely do not get fully drunk. I’m not a big fan of alcoholic beverages. I don’t like the taste. Even though my country we can drink at around 14/15. It’s just not a thing here to get drunk (not that it doesn’t happen). I’ve never taken drugs or smoked. But that’s my personal choice. I’ve just never wanted to. I’ve had peer pressure to do these things, including sex, but I’ve never done anything like that. It does NOT make me better than the people who do. And they should be judged for these choices.

Did you mean NOT be judged?