Alcohol/Smoking/Et Cetera

[Mr Allen]

I drink socially, but I'm VERY anti smoking, because I've seen the effects on members of both sides of my family, about 16 years ago my Dad's eldest sister died through smoke related illness, and then nearly a year later his youngest died, Auntie Mal, also from smoke related illness, and in August 1997, same week as Princess Diana, we lost Mum's Dad to the big C (Cancer) and he'd been a Pipe smoker most of his life.

 

[TempeFan]

@Autistamatic I envy you your parentage. They may not have been very supportive of you and your HFA, but at least they didn't flat out hate and torture you for it. Reading these stories and others on the forum and listening to your voice of reason, has helped me understand a lot and deal with my own demons. I'd expound on that lot and explain how you've helped but this box only allows 10,000 characters and you know how wordy I am.

Thank God for drugs. I'm lucky to be alive. I no longer abuse drugs and would like to keep it that way, but I'm happy they were there. Of course, it would have been nice if I didn't do that. It also would have been nice to not be abused, neglected, and mentally ill. But apparently what's nice is often not what is.

Does any of that explain anything at all to you, or are you still in utter confusion?

Thank you @Fino, until I read your post I had no idea why people would do things that they should have known would make a bad situation even worse. People in a situation, as desparate as you were in, simply don't know and can't think of anything - except that they need to get out any way they can. You were completely out of options. Slightly different circumstances and I would have been trapped in your life or some other which would have been either better or worse than what I got stuck with.

Because I didn't suffer all those other painful comorbidities (seizures, Borderline Personality Disorder, ADHD, excessive violence) my Aspyiness channeled me into a different direction. I am an addict of sorts but I'm not addicted to the usual things. The first time someone handed me a bottle of booze and said it was fun and would make me happy, it wasn't and it didn't. There was no "for the first time in probably ever, I FELT OKAY." I felt not the slighest bit euphoric. I just woke up in a closet with a bottle of Southern Comfort and everybody mad at me for having a drinking problem and bringing alcohol into their house, when the kids living in the house brought both me and the bottle into the house and I had never imbibed before. I never had a drinking problem, simply because when I take a few sips, I fall asleep, no problem - except that time I tried drinking a 4 pack of wine coolers for the purpose of ending my insomnia and it had the opposite effect, as if I had downed a gallon of caffeine.

I never had a smoking problem. When I was young, I developed an intense aversion to it. It smells bad, costs too much money that I never had any way of earning, makes me cough and if I stay in a smoky room for an hour or so I get laryngitus and can't even sing. People blowing smoke in my face all the time caused so many respitiory infections and dental problems. When I was 13 or 14, the kindest man I'd known all my life dropped dead right in front of me from smoking cartons of unfiltered Camels, not packs a day, CARTONS, after having also suffered smoking related illnesses including chronic edema of both legs, emphysema, and a stroke that left him without use of one arm.

I was the invisible nerd with a plan on the back of the bus, waiting it out all alone until my turn came, listening to other kids discussing their problems, (ei: "My boyfriend dumped me so now I have to get another so I can get some." "I hope my mom doesn't find my pills." "Hide the bloody shirt." "I hope I'm not pregnant." "I hope the cops don't call my dad." "We better not get caught.") I didn't develop a problem with sex or teen pregnancy or truancy or shoplifting or gambling or anything else because my thinking was, I've got enough problems and I can't handle anymore.

I don't have a drug problem because my first bout with cancer had huge amounts of toxic chemicals being pumped into my body through IV chemotherapy treatments. Like you said, "Thank God for drugs. I'm lucky to be alive." Still a bad experience, I never want to repeat. What the doctors (and everybody else) did to me was bad enough. I'm not doing that to myself.

Like you said, "I didn't have any friends so was very isolated and by time I was thirteen felt that I was supposed to be hurt, that the reason I existed was to please other people." That was my plan, if I just got good enough at doing everything right, always being honest and helpful and hard working, getting great grades and earning opportunites, I would finally be able to PLEASE other people well enough for them to start treating me the way I deserved. That was more ignorant than any other addiction and I still haven't fully recovered yet.

Universal truth: people can only do the best they can, with what they've got. Some people are born with every advantage on the planet available to them (ie: love, money, opportunities, looks, brains, health, connections, the preferred demographics and most importantly social status) and they still manage to screw up. Those of us with every disadvantage (ie:the exact opposite of the other ie list above) and most importantly bad parenting or none at all, still manage to make good eventually. All people start off like hungry rats in a maze, funneled to various dead ends where there is NO cheese, not knowing which way to go, back toward any of those empty spots behind, or forward into the unknown? From inside the maze, it is impossible to see the correct route out to the good place, sometimes there isn't any way out or any good place to go if/when you do get out.

I was more like a little mouse in a trap with a tiny crumb, munching off my own tail in hopes that I could escape and find some of what I could see all the others enjoying. Stupid me. Just because one manages to get out of a bad situation, doesn't mean there will be a good situation available to get into. There in lies the rub. My only sin was being concieved in the wrong womb which wasn't my idea. The irresponsible morons who forced me into this world tossed me into the state system at birth. Then the cruel hearted government officials randomly dumped me all alone into a horrid hoarder house to be tormented forever by a rageaholic woman with NMS(narcissistic mother syndrome), who chose to take out her failures and frustrations on innocent children, and her codependant husband, who chose not to lift a finger to help any of us. This left me twice abandoned by two sets of unfit parents before I was even 1 day old. Back then, I honestly believed once I was no longer being isolated by my keepers in their dungeon, that I could eventually find a place where I belonged. I had always expected, when I turned 18 or 21, I would no longer be just some under aged chattel without a voice. While I was under that incredible but lovely delusion, I used to be the most happy optimistic person on the planet. I truly thought my being a good person would eventually influence the rest of the world to stop regarding me as just a punching bag, start viewing me as a human being, and for the first time judge me on my own merits. This NEVER happened. Every time I did great work, I was punished severely for someone else's careless mistake or deliberate bad actions which had nothing to do with me. I am incapable of figuring out other's intentions. Since I lack the ability to predict when someone will turn on me, I am always blind sided because the Aspergers blocks me from ever seeing the bad guys coming.

@sidd851 When I read your story, it was like watching old reruns on your son's TV set. I understand why alcohol was your only alternative and what drove you to it. Glad you got out of such an untenable situation. Thank you for being very informative and I have one more question you might offer some insight into that I will probably ask later.

 

[sidd851]

This intriguing thread has me thinking, deeper than usual, @SUM1 , and, while I may feel somewhat slighted because of the judgement of a large portion of my experiences, I will here thank you for it.

It has occurred to me, that there is very important information that I have not thought to include that is relevant to the OP.

I have experimented with a large number of drugs, both legal and illegal.
I have seen illegal drugs that have very therapeutic effects. Namely, cannabis, LSD, Morning Glory(seeds), Psilocybe mushrooms, Amanita mushrooms, plants from the Belladonna family, others... and a host of yet others that I have not experimented directly with.

In every instance, before experimenting, I studied the drug, everything about it, it's dangers, it's possible benefits, it's historic use(s).
I never entered into any experimentation without as comprehensive an understanding as I could possibly muster.

Without exception, I have never blindly just taken some substance.

What drove much of this experimentation can loosely be described as "mind expansion".
(Although, it is also true that I was on the spectrum, and did not know it. There has always been, in my life, the perception that something was "off". It is entirely possible that much of my experimentation was as much a search for answers to problems that as yet, I did not know existed, at least consciously.)
Many of the substances that I experimented with were historically used "in communion with the "gods" ", as restoratives to healthy mind states, as "dream quests", as access to "universal knowledge", and simply as traditional medicines and altered states from whence shamans and the like obtained insight for progress and direction for their societies.

"But why?", you may be asking.

I am wont to ask, in response, "Why not?".

Throughout all of recorded history, humankind has used psychedelics and other mind altering substances.

The Chukchi's perceived Amanita Muscaria mushrooms as individual deities--- entities that would transfer knowledge if approached in the proper, respectful way.

This perception and belief could not have persisted for milennia had there not been some perceivable advantage to having "psychedelic visions" under it's influence.
Evidently, the Chukchi's believed and trusted the visions given them by these "gods".
The existence of the Chukchi peoples today is evidence that the information "obtained" was neutral in effect, at worst.

It is also worth mentioning the immense reverence given these mushrooms.
A shaman of the tribe would ingest three mushrooms (three entities are a more democratic sampling of "otherworldly" knowledge, apparently), climb a birch tree(a symbiont with the mushroom), and receive "spiritual instruction".
Now, 85% of the active alkaloids are excreted in the first urination after consumption. These entities were held in such high regard, as well as the "wisdom" that they imparted, that the shaman would urinate into a ceremonial urine bowl, and the urine would be drunk by the next tribal member in the hierarchy, then s/he would urinate, and that would be drunk by the next, and then the next, and the next, until every tribal member had consumed/communed/been instructed by the same three entities.

I would ask, if there was not some intrinsic advantage imparted by so doing, how could this odd, to say the least, practice have continued for thousands of years.

There are many ways, that humans have been alienated, and alienated themselves, from the natural world.
There are also those that believe that if we are to continue to progress, we will not so readily discard practices that have served us until very recently.

It is only with the utmost in arrogance that we have looked at our ancestors and viewed them as brutish, uncomplicated barbarians with no redeeming qualities, and believed that we have merely been fortunate to escape their primitive "superstitions".

Our very existence occludes this narrow, self-righteous belief.

There is much more to the world, our history and understanding, than the narrowly controlled and directed "acceptable outlets" that are so often profit and control driven, allow for.

I've had my share of difficulties, brought about by my own choices, but in the above experimentations, by and large, I have come to greater understanding of myself, human nature, and life itself, as they relate to the grander scope of things.

I am not here advocating "drug use",
simply asserting that nothing exists for no reason, let alone for large blocks of geologic time.

I hope that this may explain some of what you are wondering, and are troubled by.

sidd

 

[LadyBird84]

I don't understand why some people do the things they do either. But it's their life. I'm sure I do a lot of things others don't understand.

 

[LadyBird84]

I self harm. That can be considered to be an addiction. And a harmful one too. I made the choice years ago without really considering the pros and cons of my actions. Shame on me.

No. No shame. Nobody who has any other options would make this 'choice'. Nobody starts to harm themselves for fun or a good time. No matter what people say self harm isn't something you need to feel ashamed of.

 

[Moomin]

No. No shame. Nobody who has any other options would make this 'choice'. Nobody starts to harm themselves for fun or a good time. No matter what people say self harm isn't something you need to feel ashamed of.

I don’t think I did at the time. I only really started this because I kept everything in so that it begs to build up and eat at me until something came, didn’t matter how impactful it was for me to emotionally vent it that way. I was very young to start doing this, I think around twelve. My family circumstances were difficult (still are but when you’re 12 you tend to think everything is worse) and I had zero support. I wasn’t even diagnosed then, but knew that something wasn’t right.

I get why people can be judgmental in this regard. I’ve been at the receiving end of their recoil and disdain. Words like “only losers cut themselves “ are hurtful or “ how’d you feel if something happened to something you love” and again that’s hurtful. It’s one of the reasons why I think that people should not have the right to judge. Support, yes. Understand, yes. But not become judgmental and think “I’m better than you because this won’t happen to me”. In some ways, that’s implying that the other person is weak. When that’s not true at all.

Thank you for posting what you posted.

 

[Pats]

In every instance, before experimenting, I studied the drug, everything about it, it's dangers, it's possible benefits, it's historic use(s).
I never entered into any experimentation without as comprehensive an understanding as I could possibly muster.

Without exception, I have never blindly just taken some substance.

You're smart. I would have taken anything that was handed to me. I don't know why, but this morning I woke up thinking about when I was a teenager and someone gave me a pill and said it was pcp and another time taking what someone told me was mescaline. I happened to look them up when I first got on the computer - so, what, after 47 years I decide to see what I took. Then I read what you said, and thought how stupid I was. I just know they both totally messed me up. And with the pcp I was at home, my boyfriend was supposed to come over, but he didn't and I ended up staying home with my family and people from church having a cookout. The last thing I remember is my sister asking what I took and saying she needed to keep me hidden from everyone.
I was naïve and trustful.

 

[SUM1]

Yay, you're back! I was worried you weren't coming because of what you said to Tom!

Thank you!

Maybe it would be relevant to ask if you can relate to the idea of a person attempting/committing suicide? Or how about self-harm, such as cutting? Are these equally confusing or less confusing or more confusing?

I probably won't be posting in any more topics.

Fair enough, I'll answer: I've never understood self-harm personally, but I've totally understood suicide, the main reason being one causes pain to the person while the other ends the pain permanently. I would be lying if I said I'd never had suicidal thoughts before. But I understand that suicide almost always depends on the way others have treated you, and that if you feel that no one can perceive any good or use in you, then you feel you don't have a need to keep breathing and eating and living. I've never had the emotional charge to want to inflict pain on myself, because I don't think I'm wrong or worthless or deserving of such pain inherently, but I have seen the reason behind suicide, because I've certainly seen the resentment I cause in other people, or how virtually no one else can relate to or understand me to any reasonable degree.

 

[SUM1]

I think by "everyone," you mean "some" and by "exact opposite" you mean "different in some ways," right? Some people here have agreed with you, so they can't be the opposite! Unless it was supposed to be understood that you were using hyperbole, in which case, sorry!

Well, if you'd noticed, many of the people who supposedly "agreed" with me have upvoted posts in total disagreement with me, including those emotionally charged/ad hominem, and including yourself @Fino. It's clear to me that users like Autistamatic were quite affected by what I had to say, given their entire life experience, and that they couldn't respond within reason except by trying to claim I was asking an irrational question and that I will end up doing things I say I'll never do (which should be obvious and besides the point). Clearly an emotional element there, not to mention the way he tried to highlight people having "opened their hearts" in response to me, as if I should feel sorry for it not having aided my understanding, and disregarding the fact I've shown my own weaknesses elsewhere on this forum.

So no, even though there was some hyperbole, it was minimal. Regardless, what the responses have shown me is just how much people take this topic to heart, and that alone has taught me a fair bit about these practices and the people who do them.

 

[TempeFan]

I probably won't be posting in any more topics.

Fair enough, I'll answer: I've never understood self-harm personally, but I've totally understood suicide, the main reason being one causes pain to the person while the other ends the pain permanently. I would be lying if I said I'd never had suicidal thoughts before. But I understand that suicide almost always depends on the way others have treated you, and that if you feel that no one can perceive any good or use in you, then you feel you don't have a need to keep breathing and eating and living. I've never had the emotional charge to want to inflict pain on myself, because I don't think I'm wrong or worthless or deserving of such pain inherently, but I have seen the reason behind suicide, because I've certainly seen the resentment I cause in other people, or how virtually no one else can relate to or understand me to any reasonable degree.

I've never done any of these things you are on about either and for the same reasons. A lot of people on this forum can relate to you and do understand completely. You said, "I don't think I'm wrong or worthless or deserving of such pain inherently, but I have seen the reason behind suicide." Everyone on this forum understands the exact same thing about themself and all are chosing to be here looking for the same answers you seek, instead of choosing to be dead. You started this thread expecting to be disliked and rejected for IMOing and @Fino welcomed you to keep doing so. Others, with valid perspectives responded too. This thread helped people who are willing and seeking to learn and to help and be helped. Thank you for it.

What is a cancer stick or a bottle of booze or a psychedelic pill? Harmful? Oh yeah! In the short run each is a momentary high that lessens a worse pain. In the long run they are suicide. So you see, you do get it! Welcome to the forum.

 

[Autistamatic]

Sorry you see it that way @SUM1 , but the reason so many people "upvoted" posts that disagreed with your assertion is simply because they are seeing both sides of the story as do I.
I mentioned before that I am happy for anyone who can keep themselves clean and that includes you, but if you want to understand the answer to your question you can only do so by understanding the lives of the people who engage in the behaviours you so disagree with.
There is no rational answer to irrationality, but if you see the world through someone else's eyes because they have been honest and open with you, you may gain some understanding.
One could argue that seeking a rational explanation for an irrational activity is an irrational act in itself.
I have nothing to defend nor do I have an "emotional" connection to the subject. I am not an addict and I have never been other than having once been a smoker, but I have known good people, including some in this community, who have dealt with severe drug addictions and their consequences.
If you were to open your heart and mind to other points of view you may get the answers you seek. If you wish to keep to your intentions of never succumbing to any form of addiction, it would serve you well to learn from their mistakes. Nobody can predict their future, but forewarned is forearmed.
I am glad you opened this topic because it was an interesting one and has given me further insight into the lives and struggles of some of our fellow members. If you read through it again with an open mind it might do the same for you.
I wish you well.

 

[Otenba]

Forgive me for my bluntness, but I don't get it. I don't get why people start doing it, and I especially don't get why autists start doing it, in their supposedly more logical thinking.

I'm diagnosed with Asperger's and 19 years old, and there's no nice way to express my view on this, but I've always felt extremely alone in my absolute rejection of all recreational drugs, not least because so many people with my very own diagnoses do them, in addition to the general populace.

I'm more concerned with why people start doing them rather than why people can't stop, because that second part is very easy to explain. I just don't understand why people make a choice that is nothing but harmful to them, and others. I've no idea why, if it's social pressure, they let themselves cave into it. I've no idea why people can't analyse risks and benefits. I could go on about the 1,000s of reasons against such practices, but I don't think I'm at liberty to. I rarely express such views at all because I know they get met with scathing rejection.

If anything can come out of this post, I want to know if there are other people like me, and I want to know from the point of view of those who consume these drugs why they do it, more importantly, why they started doing it, in as much detail as they can. Thank you.

You're definitely not alone. I don't see the appeal either, and people give me grief for it.

I think a large part of why people do it is for social, "to fit in", reasons. British people seem notoriously obsessed with drinking to make their lives fun too.

 

[Autistamatic]

I think a large part of why people do it is for social, "to fit in", reasons. British people seem notoriously obsessed with drinking to make their lives fun too.

There's a LOT of truth in that in the UK and parts of Europe. Russia has a terrible problem with alcohol too. There was a time when for men in particular, how many pints you could down in a session was a measure of manhood, though women have caught up.
You can enjoy alcohol without having to get trousered in the process. Life is definitely more fun when you can remember it the following morning.
Why do people "give you grief" for it though? Have they ever given you a reason? I'm going for a Christmas meal in a pub tonight with my local Aspie group, but I will be drinking lemonade and I don't expect anyone to even notice.

 

[Fino]

Well, if you'd noticed, many of the people who supposedly "agreed" with me have upvoted posts in total disagreement with me, including those emotionally charged/ad hominem, and including yourself @Fino. It's clear to me that users like Autistamatic were quite affected by what I had to say, given their entire life experience, and that they couldn't respond within reason except by trying to claim I was asking an irrational question and that I will end up doing things I say I'll never do (which should be obvious and besides the point). Clearly an emotional element there, not to mention the way he tried to highlight people having "opened their hearts" in response to me, as if I should feel sorry for it not having aided my understanding, and disregarding the fact I've shown my own weaknesses elsewhere on this forum.

So no, even though there was some hyperbole, it was minimal. Regardless, what the responses have shown me is just how much people take this topic to heart, and that alone has taught me a fair bit about these practices and the people who do them.

Like Autistimatic said about agreeing with posts also "agree" doesn't necessarily mean agree with every word or agree with the delivery, but of course I agree with any post that disagrees with you since I disagree with you! But I don't see anything insulting or offensive about disagreement.

I'm also glad you made this thread! I learned a lot!

I don't believe anyone had any emotions toward you, but I could be wrong. Those things are hard to gauge through text.

I hope you change your mind about posting! Don't feel obligated not to, as if now you have to stay true to your word or something.

Good luck with everything!

 

[Otenba]

There's a LOT of truth in that in the UK and parts of Europe. Russia has a terrible problem with alcohol too. There was a time when for men in particular, how many pints you could down in a session was a measure of manhood, though women have caught up.
You can enjoy alcohol without having to get trousered in the process. Life is definitely more fun when you can remember it the following morning.
Why do people "give you grief" for it though? Have they ever given you a reason? I'm going for a Christmas meal in a pub tonight with my local Aspie group, but I will be drinking lemonade and I don't expect anyone to even notice.

Because of my health problems and drinking being "the done thing" in a lot of their opinions. I get sick of fighting for my want to not drink to be respected. Sick of the "why not?" and then taking me not drinking personally. I have never asked anyone to stop drinking. Some look down on others that don't drink. I don't like sodas (diet coke I'm fed up of because it tends to be the only suitable option offered) as well as not good option for health stuff, so end up having to rely on tea or water being served which people regularly give me odd looks for. Not my fault most options are poor for my health needs. It's why I rarely eat out too.

 

[Fino]

I probably won't be posting in any more topics.

Fair enough, I'll answer: I've never understood self-harm personally, but I've totally understood suicide, the main reason being one causes pain to the person while the other ends the pain permanently. I would be lying if I said I'd never had suicidal thoughts before. But I understand that suicide almost always depends on the way others have treated you, and that if you feel that no one can perceive any good or use in you, then you feel you don't have a need to keep breathing and eating and living. I've never had the emotional charge to want to inflict pain on myself, because I don't think I'm wrong or worthless or deserving of such pain inherently, but I have seen the reason behind suicide, because I've certainly seen the resentment I cause in other people, or how virtually no one else can relate to or understand me to any reasonable degree.

It sounds like perhaps you actually understand everything you're saying you don't and don't even know it yet! I feel like you just explained it or very nearly did, just in a slightly different context!

 

[Fino]

When people ask me why I can't drink, I tell them that I take medication to keep from killing them or me that can't be mixed with alcohol, a drug that would also cause me to kill them or me.

 

[Autistamatic]

I'm disappointed that people take that attitude with you @Otenba .
My wife doesn't drink at all anymore for similar reasons to yourself and if we go out together I stick to soft drinks along with her. I'm usually the driver too I won't let a drop pass my lips if I'm driving.
I'm quite happy with soft drinks and luckily they don't disagree with me, but I've been known to ask for a coffee or tea in a pub and I'd have a few choice words for anybody that took issue with it

 

[Otenba]

I'm disappointed that people take that attitude with you @Otenba .
My wife doesn't drink at all anymore for similar reasons to yourself and if we go out together I stick to soft drinks along with her. I'm usually the driver too I won't let a drop pass my lips if I'm driving.
I'm quite happy with soft drinks and luckily they don't disagree with me, but I've been known to ask for a coffee or tea in a pub and I'd have a few choice words for anybody that took issue with it

I cannot express enough how much I appreciate that you, and your wife, can relate to what I am saying. I've been like this all my life, so I'm not even talking recent times with having to justify why I am the way I am to others. I've got better at knowing when to stand up for myself, and no one will ever convince me to change my mind about these sorts of things since I am firm in my stance, but I think I'm also very jaded still to never being good enough, or being seen as not trying hard enough because I choose to respect my limits. Hopefully I will meet more people who do get me in future, especially now I'm aware of autism. I tell myself I know I'm more okay than people let on to me; I get tired regularly though of only hearing it from myself though. Thing is, I also recognise no one owes me anything too, though people often point this out when I raise issues related to this stuff. It's frustrating.
Thank you for your kind message.

 

[Pats]

@SUM1 I'm glad to see you returned, also. You chose a difficult topic that there is understanding and agreeance on both sides. I'm sure everyone here hopes you continue your stance to avoid these things, but it sounds like you have gotten a little better understanding of why people do and I hope that helps you, too, to watch out for those things and not succumb. It's also a subject that is sensitive and people easily feel judged over. So, stick around a while longer and join in some of the 'not so touchy' subjects and see how it goes.
@Otenba I find myself in social setting sometimes where everyone is drinking. I'm always offered and I just say, no thanks. If my son is close by he will always jump in and just say, she just doesn't. I'm always afraid everyone is looking at me like I'm being judgy when I decline. I don't really like being around it, especially when there are little kids around (which is almost always the case), but it is what it is. I can't say anything because I have a past, too. Oh - there have been a few times I had to keep my soda in front of me and close to me because others were trying to spike it. Caught my first ex mother in law trying.