Are these types of social problems either normal or common for people with autism?

[thejuice]

I manage an awkward 2 minutes of laddish banter about 'the football' that i did my homework on and then I'm totally out and retreat to the corner. What's more is I can't smile for more time than that without pulling a muscle

 

[thejuice]

people say I come across as cold. I have also been describe as "creepy,"

Its been said I look like a serial killer, but I hear there is a small hybristophilic niche for that kind of thing so every cloud..

 

[Misty Avich]

You will never be like them, nor part of their collective. Adapt and overcome as best you can and stop ruminating over that long list of things you will never have in common or have. You do you and put aside jealousies and envious thoughts, as it only leads to depression and distress. Focus upon what you do well and stop worrying about the things you don't do well. You don't have access to their "software". Head up, shoulders back, stand up tall, and walk forward through life.

I know that's good advice but it still doesn't make me accept myself. I just can't bear having ASD. I can't bear it. I can only imagine what my school life would have been like if I were NT. All the girls in my class accepted each other and hung about together every day at school in a large group, and all I wanted was to be a part of their group but they often shunned me, rejected me, excluded me, ignored me, didn't want me there, felt embarrassed to be seen with me...and it still hurts to this day. And I know 100% that they wouldn't have behaved like that towards me if I was another NT like them. I just know it. I don't see why they would if I were NT. I'd just be another accepted member of the females in the class and I would have just automatically been accepted. But instead I had to spend my high school life standing on the outside feeling so lonely and isolated, it was horrific and I wouldn't wish that upon anyone.

And it doesn't stop in high school. My mother would still be alive if I didn't have ASD. Stress causes cancer, so they say. I was just one big stress altogether and although my ADHD was what caused my naughty behaviour and inability to handle emotions, I'd say ASD was the cause of my social isolation and I drove my poor mother round the bend during school holidays when I cried a lot because I didn't have any friends to hang out with. My mother was at her wits end not knowing what to do, and I was a burden on her. If I was NT like all my cousins I probably would have been more independent like they were and have friends to hang out with.

I was such a huge manic stress to live with that my mother would often pack me off to my father's but when my father brought me home my mother would sigh and say "do you have to bring her back so early?" Not because she didn't want me, but because she just wanted a much needed break. Yeah, I was a huge burden and I don't know why I was born.

 

[Cassandra65]

I would also assume they can still happen to people without autism, as in, people with poor social skills or just are very socially awkward, i believe it can happen to NT people as well, but i wonder and i'm going to guess its more common for people with autism, but anyway, here is what i'm getting across, the point i'm trying to explain:

I'll give you an example on how this has happened to me, there have been times in my life where some people have welcomed me in their presence socially, and I could tell that they got along with me and they liked me being in their presence, however sometime later, like let's say weeks or months later I get the vibe from them that they don't want me around them anymore, the way I can tell is from like their facial expressions or body language in which they look like they are annoyed or bothered by me.
And yet I have no clue what I did wrong, I don't know what it is that I did that caused them to get bothered by my presence even though at first they welcomed me.
It has caused me to get very depressed and even get emotional at times.

even though I am completely aware and I know that we obviously can't please everyone and I know that not everyone will want to be friends with us, not everyone will want to have a relationship with us, that's a fact, it's just that it's more painful when at first things are going well with someone or some people, at first we are getting along, they welcome my, or our company, enjoy being around me, us, but then all of a sudden they want nothing to do with me, or us anymore(referring to people who have gone through this) anymore and we have no clue what it is that we did wrong that pushed them away.

Here is how i view social rejection like that, if i attempt to socialize or befriend people, but they reject me right away, i feel i'm able to brush that off, move on from it, doesn't hurt me as much as i used to, i like to have the mindset "their loss, and plus, they didn't get to know me that well either, they hardly knew me or didn't know me at all", the rejection mainly hurts like i described above, when things are going cool or good socially with someone or a group of people, they at first welcome you in their presence, company, but then sometime later, you get the vibe or feeling from them that they don't like you anymore, they appear bothered or annoyed by your presence and you don't know what it is that you did wrong.

Overall, another way to ask, is it common or not unusual, for people with autism, to come across as annoying or bothersome when attempting to socialize and befriend others and you are not aware of what you are doing wrong, but unfortuneately, you eventually find out when the damage has already been done, but you still don't know what it is that caused the other people to be annoyed or bothered, or not like you being in their presence anymore? Unfortuneately, most people, won't be upfront and tell you straight to your face for you to leave them alone or they won't tell you what it is that you did wrong socially that caused them to either get annoyed by you or not want you in their presence anymore.

I will admit, these types of social experiences have caused me to get very depressed and cry, get emotional at times.

I have had exactly this experience so many times! It happened recently - a new group of people were very welcoming, giving me hugs etc, then 3-4 meets later nobody speaking to me, seem annoyed with me, I have no idea what I did wrong, came home and cried for 2 hours and didn't go this week. This has been a repeating pattern for so long (I'm 59), sometimes I wonder why I bother at all. I've asked in the past what I did wrong, but never been told (comments like 'you know exactly what you've done' don't help!). It's considered a mark of insanity to repeat the same actions and expect a different outcome. However, I'm so so lonely I can't stop trying! I have nobody to confide in, no shoulders to cry on, no support or back-up when I need it. And absolutely no idea how to change this.

 

[Steelbookcollector217]

I have had exactly this experience so many times! It happened recently - a new group of people were very welcoming, giving me hugs etc, then 3-4 meets later nobody speaking to me, seem annoyed with me, I have no idea what I did wrong, came home and cried for 2 hours and didn't go this week. This has been a repeating pattern for so long (I'm 59), sometimes I wonder why I bother at all. I've asked in the past what I did wrong, but never been told (comments like 'you know exactly what you've done' don't help!). It's considered a mark of insanity to repeat the same actions and expect a different outcome. However, I'm so so lonely I can't stop trying! I have nobody to confide in, no shoulders to cry on, no support or back-up when I need it. And absolutely no idea how to change this.

yeah, i barely found out yesterday, that of those 2 women i mentioned, only one of them blocked me on instagram, the other did not, however, i'm assuming she blocked me last year, i didn't find out until recently, the way i found out was, my brother has an instagram account, i used his instagram when he let me use his phone for a bit, thats when i found her IG page, but obviously can't find it anymore on mine.

 

[Cassandra65]

Often people my age are friendly to me but often exclude me from their group, which hurts because I'd love to do social activities with my colleagues outside of work, especially if they are my age. Sometimes I feel being teetotal alienates me from my peer group a lot, which annoys me no end because it's like British society makes drinking the be all and end all and if you don't drink then people think there's something wrong with you and you can't fit in so well. So I think that was why I was so excluded from the others at work, even though some activities they did together outside of work didn't involve drinking. I did hint that I would like to try some of the non-alcohol-related activities they were planning but they still didn't include me and I didn't think it was appropriate to just invite myself along, as it would probably make me look needy and it'd only be embarrassing.

I used to work in a place with a big shared office. I lost count of the number of times I sat there while colleagues arranged social activities but never asked me to join them. When I left that job, I asked one of them why I'd always been left out. He said they didn't think I'd want to join them! But he didn't clarify why that was.

 

[Cassandra65]

I once had a hike planned with a group of friends. Someone was supposed to pick me up so we'd go to the mountain for the hike.

I waited and waited and no one showed up.

Finally I called them and they said that at the last moment they had decided to go to a pub (or a club maybe, can't remember) and since they knew I didn't like that sort of place, they'd decided not to tell me anything.

I guess you can guess how peeved I was.
It was the last time they even tried to plan something that included me

Some of them had been my friends for years.

I called a friend once and asked if she wanted to go to an event with me. I wasn't confident enough to go alone. She said she didn't want to go. I later found out she'd gone to that same event with a bunch of other people but hadn't contacted me to go with them. Needless to say I was very unhappy about it, and we aren't friends any more.
I feel like I've spent my whole life on the outside looking in - never really belonging, never really part of any group, and never knowing why. It totally sucks.

 

[Misty Avich]

I used to work in a place with a big shared office. I lost count of the number of times I sat there while colleagues arranged social activities but never asked me to join them. When I left that job, I asked one of them why I'd always been left out. He said they didn't think I'd want to join them! But he didn't clarify why that was.

One of the social activities they were planning was a trip to a theme park for Halloween, which was apparently supposed to be brilliant. There were 4 of them going at first but had space in the car for one more. I said "wow, I've never been to something like that before but I'd love to try it", but they just looked at me and shrugged then invited this girl along who I knew before they did, and so they all went together and I had to listen to them talking and laughing about it the following Monday, two days after the event. I just had to sit and listen to it all, feeling so left out.

It doesn't bother me so much any more, as I looked on their Facebook pages and most of them aren't even in each other's friends lists any more like they used to be, so I don't think they see each other any more (plus three of them don't work where I work any more).

 

[Steelbookcollector217]

yeah it hurts a lot, because i remember how in the beginning, me and these 2 women at work i mentioned, i could tell they enjoyed my company, we would sometimes have playful chit chat with each other, but then, it went away, later on, as months went by, i could tell from their facial expression or body language that they didn't want me aroun them anymore, and i didn't know what i did wrong.

 

[Steelbookcollector217]

yeah, if possible, and i'm sure many people who have gone through social situations or have had relationships or just interactions go awkwardly wrong like i have described in this whole thread, what would make us feel better, is if it was possible to repair the damage or awkwardness, as in, apologize to them for our awkwardness or not understanding social situations well enough, explain to them that autism does by default, make it difficult for people to navigate social situations, and them possibly forgiving us and them being on friendly terms with us again, don't want there to be any burned bridges.

But yes it goes back to what i was saying, when it comes to social rejection, or just social interactions having gone wrong, the most painful part of it is, when things are going good, well, with people or a group of people, they at first are welcome of your presence, they enjoy your company, they let you be around them in the beginning, at the start, but then later on, they start to dislike you, you get the cold shoulder from them, the vibe that they are annoyed or irritated by your presence, and you have no clue what it is that you did that caused them to not like you anymore, overall, what it is that caused me, or you(whoever has gone through what i'm talking about it) to push them away from you.

The social rejection that i'm able to now handle or deal with more easily now, is if i attempt to befriend someone or a group of people, be social with them, but they reject me instantly, they want nothing to do with me at all at the beginning, i'm able to brush that off and move on from that more easily, i look at it as "their loss, and besides, they didn't get to know me either".

The painful ones are like i described, are when people do welcome you in their presence in the beginning, at first like and enjoy your company, let you hang around them, but then that later ends up not being the case anymore, it causes me and i'm sure many people to think "okay, i did something right that made them welcoming of me, like being around me, but what did i do wrong to screw this up?"

Yes while autism does make it difficult to read social cues or body language, in this situation, and i'm sure for many other people with autism, we can at times read or tell the body language or facial expressions, sense the vibe from the other person, people, that they are giving us the cold shoulder, don't like us anymore or appeared irritated by our presence, even though that wasn't the case in the beginning.

The part that is clueness or confusing, is finding out what we did wrong behavior-wise that made them become irritated by us or not like us anymore, we think or feel we didn't do anything wrong. As in, did we say something that we didn't think was offensive but it actually was, or did we talk or act a certain way that repelled them, just made them not want to be around us anymore, even though we specifically don't know at all what we said or did, we don't know what specific actions we did that ruined what seemed to be the start of a friendship or acquaintences, that made them welcoming of us, enjoy our company and presence, but then eventually, later on, not anymore.

I hope you get the point i'm trying to get across here.

 

[thejuice]

Autistic people do well to get past the first impressions stage with non autistics before being discarded as social undesirables. Especially autistic men who are likely miss-labelled as creepy by the privileged majority when the social differences set off alarm bells.

You're immersed in an ableist society. You're beating yourself up because you're looking at it from the perspective of autism being a social deficiency, an aberration, when in fact it's just a mismatch between autism and non autism. You're placing 100% of the blame on 50% of the relationship when the other 50% has almost 0% understanding of autism beyond idiotic media stereotypes. They're likely excluding you based on miscommunication, misunderstanding and gut feelings that they've been too lazy to test with solid reasoning. They would rather just externalise the unresolved ambiguity they feel.

 

[Steelbookcollector217]

Autistic people do well to get past the first impressions stage with non autistics before being discarded as social undesirables. Especially autistic men who are likely miss-labelled as creepy by the privileged majority when the social differences set off alarm bells.

You're immersed in an ableist society. You're beating yourself up because you're looking at it from the perspective of autism being a social deficiency, an aberration, when in fact it's just a mismatch between autism and non autism. You're placing 100% of the blame on 50% of the relationship when the other 50% has almost 0% understanding of autism beyond idiotic media stereotypes. They're likely excluding you based on miscommunication, misunderstanding and gut feelings that they've been too lazy to test with solid reasoning. They would rather just externalise the unresolved ambiguity they feel.

yup, the creepy or weird label is very painful and embarassing, makes me and i'm sure tons of men feel very stupid and just retarded. Yes, its another reminder of the double-standard on who gets labeled creepy or weird when interacting with the other sex, but i think it should be obvious.

 

[thejuice]

The creep 'spidey sense' is as reliable as a coin flip at weeding out antisocial men. Men on Americas most wanted list were rated as not creepy at all.

It's much better at weeding out those who are 'different'. The feeling of not knowing whether to be scared of someone or not. Humans hate ambiguity. We make that judgement of creepiness in under a second.

The biggest factor that makes someone creepy? Being a beanpole with bad hygiene and socially awkward. Not creepy? Being attractive. The in built threat detector is meant to protect us, but it is poorly calibrated. An ugly Nobel laureate is less trustworthy than a dashing criminal!

This 'halo effect' will get you less time in prison, better healthcare outcomes, a better job. The 'devil effect' might get you exiled or lynched.

 

[thejuice]

yup, the creepy or weird label is very painful and embarassing, makes me and i'm sure tons of men feel very stupid and just retarded.

It's a powerful shaming tool. The cruelty is the point.

 

[Steelbookcollector217]

It's a powerful shaming tool. The cruelty is the point.

its another reminder that, even though people and society will never say this, they never actually bluntly say this, but people and society just naturally expect us to have common sense for knowing what is creepy or weird behavior, what makes people uncomfortable in social situations, social interactions, and what is not when interacting with the other sex or just people in general, they expect us to have the social intuition, social calibration, or social awareness, they expect us to have instinctual innate knowledge, for knowing how to behave and act correctly when socializing with the other sex or just people in general, of all genders, and if the person who ends up making social mistakes that result in other people getting offended or being weirded out or uncomfortable by their presence, getting labeled as creepy or uncomfortable.

Its painful and it sucks, really makes you feel very embarassed and ashamed socially when you are the person that had caused or made these types of social mistakes, it even causes you to think or even at times want to swear off on having interactions, talking to people or trying to befriend people, be social with people ever again, but at the same time, that is just digging yourself into a deeper whole that will cause even more harm.