Athiests: What do you believe?

[AspieOtaku]

This seems to make way more sense with scientific data backed up than a 2000 year old book written by middle easterners high on opium and other opioids.

 

[Starfire]

This seems to make way more sense with scientific data backed up than a 2000 year old book written by middle easterners high on opium and other opioids.

What is your evidence that any of the authors in the bible were “high on opium and other opioids” ? I would be interested to read your source material.

 

[AspieOtaku]

What is your evidence that any of the authors in the bible were “high on opium and other opioids” ? I would be interested to read your source material.

https://www-express-co-uk.cdn.amppr...765749/Moses-burning-bush-HIGH-bible-religion

 

[Starfire]

https://www-express-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.express.co.uk/news/science/765749/Moses-burning-bush-HIGH-bible-religion/amp?amp_js_v=a2&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQEKAFwAQ==#referrer=https://www.google.com&amp_tf=From %1$s&ampshare=https://www.express.co.uk/news/science/765749/Moses-burning-bush-HIGH-bible-religion

So your evidence that “a 2000 year old book written by middle easterners high on opium and other opioids” is a newspaper article which never mentions opium or other opioids once?

What it does mention is a claim that, “what may have actually happened is that Moses was under the influence of a hallucinogenic substance.”

The article goes on to say about it’s author- “However, he concedes that there can never be any definitive proof of this.”

So to conclude, none of the bibles authors are ever mentioned, and neither is opium or other opioids. Moses is mentioned but as for him writing The Torah which is part of the bible, even that is disputed

Did Moses really write the Torah?

 

[AspieOtaku]

So your evidence that “a 2000 year old book written by middle easterners high on opium and other opioids” is a newspaper article which never mentions opium or other opioids once?

What it does mention is a claim that, “what may have actually happened is that Moses was under the influence of a hallucinogenic substance.”

The article goes on to say about it’s author- “However, he concedes that there can never be any definitive proof of this.”

So to conclude, none of the bibles authors are ever mentioned, and neither is opium or other opioids. Moses is mentioned but as for him writing The Torah which is part of the bible, even that is disputed

Did Moses really write the Torah?

Opium was very popular in the middle east when it was written, hallucinations induced hence the talking burning bush and talking snake, snakes cannot talk btw they have no vocal cords hense hallutionation induced as it was written my friend. An 8,000-year History of Use and Abuse of Opium and Opioids: How That Matters For A Successful Control Of The Epidemic ? (P4.9-055)

 

[AspieOtaku]

BTW if you claim to see visions of god today you can be committed against your will under a 5150 hold. They may think your having a psychosis and dope you up.

 

[Starfire]

Opium was very popular in the middle east when it was written, hallucinations induced hence the talking burning bush and talking snake, snakes cannot talk btw they have no vocal cords hense hallutionation induced as it was written my friend

I see, so you don’t actually have any proof or evidence and you can’t even reference a scholarly paper which argues that the bibles contributors were high on opium or opioids, when they wrote the books now know as the bible.

That’s what I thought, you totally made that claim up then, it’s fiction from your imagination which is fine, but you shouldn’t then present it as though it were established fact, it’s not.

 

[AspieOtaku]

I see, so you don’t actually have any proof or evidence and you can’t even reference a scholarly paper which argues that the bibles contributors were high on opium or opioids, when they wrote the books now know as the bible.

That’s what I thought, you totally made that claim up then, it’s fiction from your imagination which is fine, but you shouldn’t then present it as though it were established fact, it’s not.

Its not fiction, opium has been used often in the middle east.

 

[Starfire]

Opium was very popular in the middle east when it was written, hallucinations induced hence the talking burning bush and talking snake, snakes cannot talk btw they have no vocal cords hense hallutionation induced as it was written my friend. An 8,000-year History of Use and Abuse of Opium and Opioids: How That Matters For A Successful Control Of The Epidemic ? (P4.9-055)

You’ve edited this post to include a brief article on the history of opium use, which still doesn’t mention anything about the bible writers being high on opium or opioids when they wrote the bible!

Your argument is ridiculous, and without a shred of evidence. I could use your argument to say because vegetables were around at that time, the bible was written by vegetarians! I don’t have provide a shred of evidence for my claim, because you didn’t.

That doesn’t mean it is true though, it means I made it up and it’s a product of my imagination, which is what you did. Show me some proof of your claim or it’s a lie.

 

[Juliettaa]

Your argument is ridiculous, and without a shred of evidence. I could use your argument to say because vegetables were around at that time, the bible was written by vegetarians! I don’t have provide a shred of evidence for my claim, because you didn’t.

That analogy made me laugh out loud. Thank you for brightening my morning

 

[Starfire]

That analogy made me laugh out loud. Thank you for brightening my morning

Haha good I’m glad to hear it. However my argument may not be as ludicrous as I first thought.

Was Jesus A Vegetarian — Along With An Ancient Jewish Sect?

A Vegetarian View of the Torah

There’s plenty more about this actually, so my claim that the bibles authors were vegetarians may have some truth to it, and I stick by it and provide circumstantial evidence.

 

[Starfire]

You may find this article interesting-

https://res.mdpi.com/d_attachment/r...0972/article_deploy/religions-05-00972-v2.pdf

I draw your attention to, “There are no biblical references to the use of substances, such as opium and cocaine derivatives, even though these have been used by humanity since biblical times. This is in contrast to alcohol, which is relatively frequently referenced.”

Therefore, it could be argued by using your logic that the bibles authors were vegetarians doing lines and slamming shots “high on opium and opioids” while actually writing the bible! There is no actual proof, evidence or credibility that any of that is true, but let’s not let facts get in the way of a good story eh.

 

[Wolfnox]

BTW if you claim to see visions of god today you can be committed against your will under a 5150 hold. They may think your having a psychosis and dope you up.

Not unbelievable. Speaking as someone who has seen God. By the way it hurt.

 

[AspieOtaku]

Its a possibility the original author was high on something, hallucinogenics have a tendency to do that, hence the far fetched ideas in the story book. I dont know it seems to make more sense to me we evolved from primates a few million years ago than were created from dirt and ribs a few thousand years ago, that natural disasters occur due to the ever changing climate and geologic activity as opposed to 2 naked people eating a magic fruit coerced by a talking snake.Religion as a Product of Psychotropic Drug Use - The Atlantic

 

[AspieOtaku]

Not unbelievable. Speaking as someone who has seen God. By the way it hurt.

Hallucinations or spiritual experiences?

 

[tree]

Reminder:

This forum is not for debating religion, preaching to others or talking down to others based on their religious beliefs. So, convincing others that your belief is superior or that you know 'the truth', whether theist or non-theist, is not required.

The original topic of this thread was a question: whether there were any other ASD individuals reading this
forum who call themselves atheists.

 

[Monachopia]

I agree with @tree

This whole discussion has been derailed. Who honestly cares if they had some opiates at that time? The fact is - the book reflects the beliefs of the time, when they had no explanations for natural phenomenons we now understand today.

The Bible was merely a document to make sense of the difficulties of the ancient times, to try to understand natural processes (such as floods/earthquakes/etc) and to also try to instil a sense of order where governance was unstable and often ineffective.

The imagery posed in the Bible might seem like some hallucination to us in modern time, but back then the art of story-telling was far more wild and colourful, reading anything about ancient deities of Greece, Rome or Nordic regions should tell you as much - they are often deeply complex tales of fantastical landscapes.

I think as a piece of history the Bible can tell us a lot, it's evidence of what people were going through back then and how they coped. Many of these principles are updated now by the church as they no longer fit modern ideals. So I guess lets leave it at that. The Bible had huge importance back in the day and still provides a lot of general moral advice that is relevant today. Some of it is outdated, but that is not for me to decide. People are free to believe what they wish.

 

[AspieOtaku]

I agree with @tree

This whole discussion has been derailed. Who honestly cares if they had some opiates at that time? The fact is - the book reflects the beliefs of the time, when they had no explanations for natural phenomenons we now understand today.

The Bible was merely a document to make sense of the difficulties of the ancient times, to try to understand natural processes (such as floods/earthquakes/etc) and to also try to instil a sense of order where governance was unstable and often ineffective.

The imagery posed in the Bible might seem like some hallucination to us in modern time, but back then the art of story-telling was far more wild and colourful, reading anything about ancient deities of Greece, Rome or Nordic regions should tell you as much - they are often deeply complex tales of fantastical landscapes.

I think as a piece of history the Bible can tell us a lot, it's evidence of what people were going through back then and how they coped. Many of these principles are updated now by the church as they no longer fit modern ideals. So I guess lets leave it at that. The Bible had huge importance back in the day and still provides a lot of general moral advice that is relevant today. Some of it is outdated, but that is not for me to decide. People are free to believe what they wish.

Well? Although the stories may seem farfetched by todays standards you are correct, religion helped establish government and laws as a foundation before science came around religion used gods and magic to explain the unknown at the time similar to how there was alchemy before chemistry.Back then not much could be explained some hallucinated but brilliant ideas came to place from spiritual journeys stories made and eventually Moses 10 commandments establishing laws in the beginning of government so there was good there. I just dont believe in dieties and became an athiest i tend to be too literal thinking and analytical and rely on science, technology and psychological data on patients who were committed in the psyche ward with me claiming they saw spirits and jesus etc. So kinda joked but not joked at the same time with no intention of hurting others and apologize for that. I posted a link for the explanation many folks i was locked up with were schitzophrenics and those under the influence of opiods who were religious, some claiming to be jesus. No hostility intended on my part intended just speaking on experience and observation.But seriously dont say you see visions of god today when being under psychiatric evaluation or they commit you. This is how todays society works.Even if its real, even if you truly seen god or such that will happen. If gods real that is i cannot prove nor disprove though but there is lack of evidence but i wont go too far this time because sometimes there are people who need a belief or religion as a means to cope with harshness of how reality is and is therapeutic i suppose.A form of meditation in a simple way to overcome difficulties in life?

 

[Monachopia]

Well, I think for some people a dose of religion is healthy - because of how they are put together... You and I are atheists and reject the notion of another being being in control, it doesn't make sense to us. But other people just can't accept that and seek other explanations for things that happen to them or why we're even all here. Everyone has a differently wired brain, some people need a blanket of reassurance. We like cold hard logic, what can I say

But on the topic of people who are just too religious/think they're a vessel for the holy spirit, it is actually a psychiatric condition:
Hyperreligiosity - Wikipedia
Which would explain the individuals you've encountered in the ward. In some sense even extremist religious groups could have something wrongly wired in their brain, but they could also just be indoctrinated. Who can say.

 

[AspieOtaku]

Well, I think for some a dose of religion is healthy - because of how they are put together... You and I are atheists and reject the notion of another being being in control, it doesn't make sense to us. But other people just can't accept that and seek other explanations for things that happen to them or why we're even all here. Everyone has a differently wired brain, some people need a blanket of reassurance. We like cold hard logic, what can I say

But on the topic of people who are just too religious/think they're a vessel for the holy spirit, it is actually a psychiatric condition:
Hyperreligiosity - Wikipedia
Which would explain the individuals you've encountered in the ward. In some sense even extremist religious groups could have something wrongly wired in their brain, but they could also just be indoctrinated. Who can say.

Makes sense we are hardwired for literal thinking relying on science and technology as well as modern medicine we forget at times people are just religious and to maintain peace to let it be.