AuDHD

[kriss72]

So, are there others with AuDHD, that have the experience, that whenever you start to feel happy, you start to put your guards down, maybe things start to go too fast and then the ADHD kicks you in the face and you start to make stupid mistakes - it kind of says, don't you dare to think you can relax and be happy? Or maybe I'm just forgetting to count my spoons and overloaded, trying to do too much, I feel a bit confused...

 

[Xinyta]

I feel something similar to this. Where I feel good, try to jump in and help, then make mistakes. Mostly with failing to ask questions, because I assume it'll be easy to figure out. Just to be proven wrong. I've had a few successes where I jumped in and could do it with little issue.

But yeah. It does feel like you cannot afford to let your gaurd down without something going wrong. But believing this doesn't serve any purpose, outside adding on to the anxiety we already have. Learning to look at it as a learning experience, than a reason to feel guilty, is something we have to practice each day.

 

[kriss72]

But yeah. It does feel like you cannot afford to let your gaurd down without something going wrong. But believing this doesn't serve any purpose, outside adding on to the anxiety we already have. Learning to look at it as a learning experience, than a reason to feel guilty, is something we have to practice each day.

Thank you, it's good to know I'm not the only one having that experience

When you write to look at i, as a learning experience, are you meaning something else than - don't take your guard down?

(If it is my family that are the victim they usually just see it as a fun trait in me, it's worse if it is about my finances, work related, or towards non-family members that don't know about my adhd).

 

[Chailatte_]

Yes,
It all starts like this:
"Oh yes, today I'm fine, I go to the mall: buy this and that...
And it ends like that:
I spend more than I wanted to spend (usually on books or shiny, cute, or colorful things, or gifts for others).
That's why now I know myself, and I know I have my moments. Here's what I do to avoid disasters:
1. I go with cash, so there's a maximum budget.
2. I have my blacklist of items I shouldn't buy because I'll declutter them anyway, and they're useless.
3. I have ADHD, so points 1 and 2 often stay at home.
4. I despair because I didn't follow the rules.
5. Repeat and adjust more and more without trampling on your essence and the needs of your traits but balance and accept your mistakes.
Finally:
I come back home and feel happy like a child. I position everything, reorganize the spaces, and focus on new things. Then suddenly, I realize I skipped my routines and am in the midst of an existential crisis mixed with panic because I think about how undisciplined I am. I do everything at any cost, even if it means sleeping late, and then (the sleep routine falls apart). Then I start thinking, 'Why did you break down your day into the smallest details to avoid panic, and then you invite panic on your own?' Usually, I stop everything, avoiding postponing tasks to the next day to prevent the situation from becoming enormous (that's why I don't go to bed until everything is done).

 

[kriss72]

Yes,
It all starts like this:
"Oh yes, today I'm fine, I go to the mall: buy this and that...
And it ends like that:
I spend more than I wanted to spend (usually on books or shiny, cute, or colorful things, or gifts for others).
That's why now I know myself, and I know I have my moments. Here's what I do to avoid disasters:
1. I go with cash, so there's a maximum budget.
2. I have my blacklist of items I shouldn't buy because I'll declutter them anyway, and they're useless.
3. I have ADHD, so points 1 and 2 often stay at home.
4. I despair because I didn't follow the rules.
5. Repeat and adjust more and more without trampling on your essence and the needs of your traits but balance and accept your mistakes.
Finally:
I come back home and feel happy like a child. I position everything, reorganize the spaces, and focus on new things. Then suddenly, I realize I skipped my routines and am in the midst of an existential crisis mixed with panic because I think about how undisciplined I am. I do everything at any cost, even if it means sleeping late, and then (the sleep routine falls apart). Then I start thinking, 'Why did you break down your day into the smallest details to avoid panic, and then you invite panic on your own?' Usually, I stop everything, avoiding postponing tasks to the next day to prevent the situation from becoming enormous (that's why I don't go to bed until everything is done).

Thank you for sharing, it made me smile, it is relatable I'm working on getting a routine, I can feel it helps, I find my life a bit on the chaotic side, there are others depending on me... and the more stressed I get, the more I forget, giving me even more stress, it's like looping around.

Do you remember your routines, or do you keep a copy of them in some way?

 

[Chailatte_]

Thank you for sharing, it made me smile, it is relatable I'm working on getting a routine, I can feel it helps, I find my life a bit on the chaotic side, there are others depending on me... and the more stressed I get, the more I forget, giving me even more stress, it's like looping around.

Do you remember your routines, or do you keep a copy of them in some way?

So, I use Tiimo, which is very convenient and is an organization and planning app with visual timers. It allows you to create routines, add tasks to do whenever you want, or set specific times for activities. It was designed for neurodivergent individuals. I have my pie charts divided into minutes, and I have a large poster with routine templates (templates help rebuild during chaotic times, especially after long periods of chaos). I also have routines based on holidays (during vacations, otherwise, I freestyle) and emergency routines (like what to do in case of unexpected events).

I recommend reading: The adult adhd tool kit
Amazon.com

I found it very useful and comforting. By the way, carve out moments of relaxation
to avoid emotional overload and make sure to note when to eat and drink (I have to do this, or I forget).

 

[Xinyta]

Thank you, it's good to know I'm not the only one having that experience

When you write to look at i, as a learning experience, are you meaning something else than - don't take your guard down?

(If it is my family that are the victim they usually just see it as a fun trait in me, it's worse if it is about my finances, work related, or towards non-family members that don't know about my adhd).

In some way yes. Keeping your gaurd up will only have you scrutinizing every action and behavior your make, whether it's right or not. It's not a healthy way to go about it. Not to say being careful isn't good in small doses. But if we leave ourselves to not allow error, without constant self-criticism, then there is nothing but pain in everything we do.

It's a world I've lived and still live every day. Thoughts can help us, but they can be a great self-harm too. If we allow them to be.

 

[kriss72]

So, I use Tiimo, which is very convenient and is an organization and planning app with visual timers. It allows you to create routines, add tasks to do whenever you want, or set specific times for activities. It was designed for neurodivergent individuals.

First, I really appreciate you taking the time to write this!

I currently have a social worker helping me to create plans for me, but we are working on paper, because I was thinking there are many steps to go into an app on the phone, so I was worried I might not use it - but I can see the benefit from something a bit more dynamic - is it an issue to actually use it on the phone?

I have my pie charts divided into minutes, and I have a large poster with routine templates (templates help rebuild during chaotic times, especially after long periods of chaos). I also have routines based on holidays (during vacations, otherwise, I freestyle) and emergency routines (like what to do in case of unexpected events).

Are all of these (pieces charts, poster with templates) part of the app? I can see the benefit with having like pre-set routines for holidays and emergencies...

I recommend reading: The adult adhd tool kit
Amazon.com.

Thank you for the recomendation

I found it very useful and comforting. By the way, carve out moments of relaxation
to avoid emotional overload and make sure to note when to eat and drink (I have to do this, or I forget).

That is funny you say that with moments of relaxation, that is something we are looking into next week I can see why it is important, never thought to have drinking water in the plan, that is also a good idea

 

[kriss72]

In some way yes. Keeping your gaurd up will only have you scrutinizing every action and behavior your make, whether it's right or not.

yeah, I can see that happening.

It's not a healthy way to go about it. Not to say being careful isn't good in small doses. But if we leave ourselves to not allow error, without constant self-criticism, then there is nothing but pain in everything we do.

I can also see that happening.. I used to get very annoyed with my self for my mistakes, it has helped to learn the connection to how my brain is different from nt brains, not as an excuse, but an explanation, to understand what it is that is difficult and why, not just see the failed end result.

It's a world I've lived and still live every day. Thoughts can help us, but they can be a great self-harm too. If we allow them to be.

I'll try to remember those words, thank you

 

[Sunny1]

Well said. Thank you both.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

So, are there others with AuDHD, that have the experience, that whenever you start to feel happy, you start to put your guards down, maybe things start to go too fast and then the ADHD kicks you in the face and you start to make stupid mistakes - it kind of says, don't you dare to think you can relax and be happy? Or maybe I'm just forgetting to count my spoons and overloaded, trying to do too much, I feel a bit confused...

I'm not sure if this counts or if it's even what you mean. But I have this thing where I wake up (or at some other time during the day) and feel really good and my social battery is, like, maximum full. So I think, great, I can clean the entire room I wanted to do, I can call this friend, I can spend hours just sitting and chatting to my mother-in-law (who loves this and it's usually difficult for me to socialize for so long), I can record voice messages for 4 different people. And I feel full of energy and impulsively do like 5 different things I've procrastinated for weeks. I feel great, really on top of things and like I have endless energy and social capacity, and even my sensory sensitivity is a bit better.
But then, out of nowhere - the crash. Either the same day, after a few hours of high-energy-running-around-socializing-and-doing-stuff. Or the next morning when I wake up and already feel like the people talking and laughing in the hallway are shrieking at me and poking my brain with little needles, and I can basically calculate how many minutes it's going to take until I have a meltdown.

P.S. just for context, I don't have diagnosed AuDHD, just autism, but I do see strong hints to an at least subclinical ADHD component in several parts of my life so I'll just join this thread, hope that's okay.

 

[kriss72]

I'm not sure if this counts or if it's even what you mean. But I have this thing where I wake up (or at some other time during the day) and feel really good and my social battery is, like, maximum full. So I think, great, I can clean the entire room I wanted to do, I can call this friend, I can spend hours just sitting and chatting to my mother-in-law (who loves this and it's usually difficult for me to socialize for so long), I can record voice messages for 4 different people. And I feel full of energy and impulsively do like 5 different things I've procrastinated for weeks. I feel great, really on top of things and like I have endless energy and social capacity, and even my sensory sensitivity is a bit better.
But then, out of nowhere - the crash. Either the same day, after a few hours of high-energy-running-around-socializing-and-doing-stuff. Or the next morning when I wake up and already feel like the people talking and laughing in the hallway are shrieking at me and poking my brain with little needles, and I can basically calculate how many minutes it's going to take until I have a meltdown.

P.S. just for context, I don't have diagnosed AuDHD, just autism, but I do see strong hints to an at least subclinical ADHD component in several parts of my life so I'll just join this thread, hope that's okay.

Of course you are welcome to chime in with your experiences

What you describe wasn't exactly what I meant, well the first part until the crash was the same - But I do recognize what you are describing, and I would attribute it to the ADHD for my self - I think it is something about our brains usually miss dopamine making us procrastinate, and when we then get on a dopamine rush we feel we can do everything, and try to do everything to keep that dopamine flowing... except that only lasts so long, and then we crash and need to pay for the experience. So while on this rush, I (and apparently others), can start to make more stupid mistakes, because we put our guards down, well, we also make stupid mistakes when not on a rush, it's just an ADHD thing to be a bit careless at times, but it gets worse with the guard down - e.g. if I follow a recipe for a cake, I know I need to read it more than once for each step, and keep going back to the beginning, double checking that I didn't miss a step or ingredient, but when on the rush, like you describe, I might forget about checking my self, and then I suddenly have a very flat cake because I forgot to add the yeast, or I proudly take the pizza out and realize there is no cheese on it (cheese is an important factor on my pizzas).

It could also be in a work sitaution where I get a mail out a little to soon, without really thinking it trough... I then send a correction mail, without thinking that through either, and that can repeat a few times while I'm thinking about my own competence and what people must be thinking about me...

 

[Chailatte_]

First, I really appreciate you taking the time to write this!

I currently have a social worker helping me to create plans for me, but we are working on paper, because I was thinking there are many steps to go into an app on the phone, so I was worried I might not use it - but I can see the benefit from something a bit more dynamic - is it an issue to actually use it on the phone?

Are all of these (pieces charts, poster with templates) part of the app? I can see the benefit with having like pre-set routines for holidays and emergencies...

Thank you for the recomendation

That is funny you say that with moments of relaxation, that is something we are looking into next week I can see why it is important, never thought to have drinking water in the plan, that is also a good idea

(Your welcome)
So, creating pie charts was an idea I got from the book I linked you to. It suggests visualizing your day to understand the actual time you have. I don't look at them every day; I check them on days when it seems like I don't have time – it's a good anchor in those cases.

If you want to make a pie chart, consider the entire day in minutes: 1440 (I converted for a more detailed view). Now, keeping 24 as your reference base, fill in what you usually do throughout your day (I even included my sleep minutes). As you fill these 24 hours, you realize what you do and how much time it takes. It doesn't just help in chaotic moments when you think you don't have time or can't finish something, but it helps you appreciate your time and days more.

Imagine the pie chart as your entire "budget" – you have 24 hours to spend, and it's up to you how you spend them (this quote is from the book I linked). As you "spend," you notice your expenditures. Only then can you make corrections to your days and have greater control in chaotic moments, especially when you might not want to do boring things – like 10 minutes. How much is 10 minutes out of 1440? About 0.6%! And if we calculate only the time you're awake: you sleep 8 hours, convert the hours to minutes (8 * 60 = 480), subtract 480 from your total of 1440 minutes, and you have 960 – that's your waking day in minutes! You have 960 daytime minutes to use as you wish!

Going back to before, you have this boring task of 10 minutes that you just don't want to do. But you look at the pie chart and find out that those 10 minutes are only about 1.4% of your day! (That's why I preferred converting to minutes.)

In the face of facts, you can't make excuses or hide behind phrases like "I didn't have time." This helps me a lot. So, I recommend you also do this small conversion for an easier life. In case you find many websites offering the service to create your personal pie chart for free, or you can do it yourself.

The tiimo app allows you to plan your days easily and in a friendly way. It encourages you to open the app, add tasks, create routines – it's well-made, simple, and intuitive. It's not a distracting app that makes you feel desperate; on the contrary, it's very user-friendly. Paper is also a good alternative (oh, by the way, you can keep the pie chart on your computer or print it – I printed mine).

Pros and cons:

Paper:
Pro paper: you can write on it and tick things off easily – a tangible and concrete sense that is lacking with smartphones.
Cons: you have to remember to pick up the notepad or wherever you write things.
Cons: you can easily lose it, it can get dirty or wet and become unusable (resulting in frustration).
Cons: (I don't know about you) but if my handwriting isn't nice or elegant, I don't even pay attention. Plus, I like bright colors that catch my eye (you can do it on paper, but how much time does it take?)

Tiimo app:
Pros: easy and intuitive.
Pros: in today's world, the phone is part of our daily life, and we are constantly expected to be reachable. So, what are the chances of losing your phone in a room at home and not finding it again? Or leaving it at home? Make sure you go back because without your phone, you're in trouble in 2024.
Cons: your plans don't maintain themselves, so if you want an app to help, you have to update your plans to avoid chaos.

Lastly, I recommend starting with the book at least to understand which method suits you best and to get some extra tips. Have a great day!

 

[kriss72]

(Your welcome)
So, creating pie charts was an idea I got from the book I linked you to. It suggests visualizing your day to understand the actual time you have. I don't look at them every day; I check them on days when it seems like I don't have time – it's a good anchor in those cases.

If you want to make a pie chart, consider the entire day in minutes: 1440 (I converted for a more detailed view). Now, keeping 24 as your reference base, fill in what you usually do throughout your day (I even included my sleep minutes). As you fill these 24 hours, you realize what you do and how much time it takes. It doesn't just help in chaotic moments when you think you don't have time or can't finish something, but it helps you appreciate your time and days more.

Imagine the pie chart as your entire "budget" – you have 24 hours to spend, and it's up to you how you spend them (this quote is from the book I linked). As you "spend," you notice your expenditures. Only then can you make corrections to your days and have greater control in chaotic moments, especially when you might not want to do boring things – like 10 minutes. How much is 10 minutes out of 1440? About 0.6%! And if we calculate only the time you're awake: you sleep 8 hours, convert the hours to minutes (8 * 60 = 480), subtract 480 from your total of 1440 minutes, and you have 960 – that's your waking day in minutes! You have 960 daytime minutes to use as you wish!

Going back to before, you have this boring task of 10 minutes that you just don't want to do. But you look at the pie chart and find out that those 10 minutes are only about 1.4% of your day! (That's why I preferred converting to minutes.)

Thank you for explaining this pie-chart idea, I really like the idea, I can kind of understand the visualization part of it - I'm not sure the scale should be minutes for me, it would probably be more relevant with energy units/spoons - like, if I spend an hour going for a walk in nature which gives me energy, compared to say drive my daughter to school that might be neutral for an hour on the energy requirements, while going to the supermarket can drain me for the rest of the day, or maybe that is something different? - like the pie chart can show you the length of each task, which is also valuable.... but time is not the only parameter that is important (for me) when planning...

In the face of facts, you can't make excuses or hide behind phrases like "I didn't have time." This helps me a lot. So, I recommend you also do this small conversion for an easier life. In case you find many websites offering the service to create your personal pie chart for free, or you can do it yourself.

I'll have a good think about this, and talk to the social worker who is helping me with planning, she is experienced with helping people with Autism and ADHD that need external help, we are trying to prepare me to be independent, but it's still up in the air if I can - my assessment report say I need help, the psychologists that I have talked to after my diagnosis say "maybe, it's difficult to tell" - I'm willing to try anything to get a better and independent life

The tiimo app allows you to plan your days easily and in a friendly way. It encourages you to open the app, add tasks, create routines – it's well-made, simple, and intuitive. It's not a distracting app that makes you feel desperate; on the contrary, it's very user-friendly. Paper is also a good alternative (oh, by the way, you can keep the pie chart on your computer or print it – I printed mine).

Pros and cons:

Paper:
Pro paper: you can write on it and tick things off easily – a tangible and concrete sense that is lacking with smartphones.
Cons: you have to remember to pick up the notepad or wherever you write things.
Cons: you can easily lose it, it can get dirty or wet and become unusable (resulting in frustration).
Cons: (I don't know about you) but if my handwriting isn't nice or elegant, I don't even pay attention. Plus, I like bright colors that catch my eye (you can do it on paper, but how much time does it take?)

Tiimo app:
Pros: easy and intuitive.
Pros: in today's world, the phone is part of our daily life, and we are constantly expected to be reachable. So, what are the chances of losing your phone in a room at home and not finding it again? Or leaving it at home? Make sure you go back because without your phone, you're in trouble in 2024.
Cons: your plans don't maintain themselves, so if you want an app to help, you have to update your plans to avoid chaos.

Lastly, I recommend starting with the book at least to understand which method suits you best and to get some extra tips. Have a great day!

I like that pros-cons view of it, a little different for me - like I get a printout of my weekly plan that I put on a bulletin board next to my work station, so I can look at it multiple times a day, I don't need to find it in a notebook, that also prevents it from getting wet or..., anyway I can just get a new printout if it is needed

I installed tiimo on my phone after reading your answer, and I have made my first task in it, so I'm trying it out - I have the paper plan I can copy tasks from, now I just want to get a feel for how it is to use the app

I really value your input and ideas

 

[Chailatte_]

Some time ago, I saw a YouTube short where a girl shared her method; in short, she created a list of her tasks and assigned priorities and energy levels to each. Anyway, to give you an idea of my routine, here are some examples: midweek, I spend the entire morning in nature because it balances me. On Saturdays, I do things that make me feel good, and on Sundays, I always carve out time to recharge during the day. In the morning, for instance, to motivate myself to get up, I wake up an hour before I need to prepare for the day and do things I enjoy. In the evening, since I experience many emotions throughout the day, I use the stationary bike. On Thursdays and Fridays, I always do the laundry, so I won't do the grocery shopping on those two days because I won't do the laundry due to being too tired from shopping. I hope this is helpful! You are taking good steps towards increasingly independent planning, a significant accomplishment that you should be proud of! It's not common for everyone to take action and face their difficulties. Wish you the best

 

[kriss72]

Some time ago, I saw a YouTube short where a girl shared her method; in short, she created a list of her tasks and assigned priorities and energy levels to each. Anyway, to give you an idea of my routine, here are some examples: midweek, I spend the entire morning in nature because it balances me. On Saturdays, I do things that make me feel good, and on Sundays, I always carve out time to recharge during the day. In the morning, for instance, to motivate myself to get up, I wake up an hour before I need to prepare for the day and do things I enjoy. In the evening, since I experience many emotions throughout the day, I use the stationary bike. On Thursdays and Fridays, I always do the laundry, so I won't do the grocery shopping on those two days because I won't do the laundry due to being too tired from shopping. I hope this is helpful! You are taking good steps towards increasingly independent planning, a significant accomplishment that you should be proud of! It's not common for everyone to take action and face their difficulties. Wish you the best

Thank you - that was really useful! -and thank you for the kind words

 

[Neri]

I'm not even at the stage where lists and things will work. I decided I'm gonna try get some naturopathic support while I wait for my psychiatrist appointment (months and months waiting list) .

https://capenaturopathics.com.au/conditions/attention-deficit-disorder/

 

[kriss72]

I'm not even at the stage where lists and things will work. I decided I'm gonna try get some naturopathic support while I wait for my psychiatrist appointment (months and months waiting list) .

https://capenaturopathics.com.au/conditions/attention-deficit-disorder/

That actually sounds like a really good idea, and the education part sounds a bit like what I've been through,, just under different names, it has brought me to where I am now. I have learned both about the asd and adhd part of me - it has really helped, I hope you get as much benefit from it

 

[Neri]

So, I have it. I watched this some months ago and it was helpful to me, so I'm posting it here. Intended to generate discussion on struggles around this co-occuring condition. I'm really struggling with it, myself.

 

[Chailatte_]

Since I know you appreciate this writing style, I preferred expressing myself this way:

Having both conditions, to me, means winning and losing at the same time. It's like reaching the finish line, but in your head, you're still running to get there. Even though people around you may be applauding, you're convinced you must keep running to reach the goal. Other times, it's you who believes you need to run, even if others are sitting calmly.

It's perfection and destruction, like building two castles simultaneously while the building blocks have a mind of their own, often leaving you perplexed within your own mind.

It's the halting of time and estrangement from reality without realizing how much time has passed. It's like traveling on a different temporal track than others, with time seeming never to align with traditional time. It's being the fairy protagonist of your own tale with a happy ending, yet simultaneously being the antagonist witch who despises happy endings and does everything to set the tale on fire.

It's balance in its own imbalance, like a dancer learning to dance amidst an angry audience and flames. Often, having both conditions allows you to have an additional armor against situations you might not have faced because who would dance between rage and flames?

It's a paradox executed in perfect disharmony within a person, while the world keeps moving forward—a world of its own, invisible to many.

That's why it's often challenging to coexist in such diverse worlds.