BF disputes EVERYTHING I say

[Tom]

There have been studies.

These key psychological differences can determine whether you're liberal or conservative

Why are you discussing totally unrelated politics on your own thread concerning a personal problem? Or do you connect them? Have Aspies somehow become politicized in your mind?

 

[Rich Gray]

How does science support what Professor Peterson has said about differences between conservative and liberal points of view?

What kind of science is that?

It is interesting to hear what he thinks about various studies and topics that I enjoy. He talks about IQ, sociology, and liberal/conservative behavior (he is conservative). I find it interesting to hear a conservative perspective, in general.

It could be useful, fun, or interesting for the original poster to watch some of his lectures with her boyfriend.

For example he says that socialism is impossible because everyone cannot have an equal IQ. I agree at the micro level, but think at the macro level that a level of socialism works. Canada, England, or Australia are more socialist then the US, and they are not making anyone who wants to be a doctor into a doctor. What I think of when people talk about socialism is a meritocracy. Those that could be a doctor, for example, are helped via pooling of resources, and this would likely result in more doctors being trained. This is what we had (a lot more of) in the US after WWII with the GI Bill.

 

[Rich Gray]

Propaganda and marketing are fascinating. We definitely have a great deal of propaganda and marketing going on when someone says one thing, and does another. Or when people believe someone whom is blatantly lying. Or when we are told not to trust other sources of information in order to verify a story. Or to only trust these sources when they agree with the held argument. It is crazy stupid fascinating watching the political reality that we are in.

 

[Rich Gray]

Why are you discussing totally unrelated politics on your own thread concerning a personal problem? Or do you connect them? Have Aspies somehow become politicized in your mind?

The original poster is liberal and her boyfriend is conservative. This is part of the communication difficulty.

I personally think that both have value and both are needed. I also think that a large part of whether or not you are conservative or liberal is biological . . . so one side trying to "win" is futile. Likely it is one of those 25%/50%/25 patterns. Either of the extreme ends winning too much power or too often is bad.

 

[Tom]

The original poster is liberal and her boyfriend is conservative. This is part of the communication difficulty.

I personally think that both have value and both are needed. I also think that a large part of whether or not you are conservative or liberal is biological . . . so one side trying to "win" is futile. The extreme ends winning is bad.

Yeah, but it seems the OP is trying to tie Autism to a specific politics which is Bullcrap of the stinkiest kind. If they believe that, they will be trying to figure out a way to take away our right to vote next. And if that won't fly, fall back on the eugenics long game.

Some people have to politicize everything.

 

[sisselcakes]

Why are you discussing totally unrelated politics on your own thread concerning a personal problem? Or do you connect them? Have Aspies somehow become politicized in your mind?

No. I was giving context for how these issues in our relationship arise. He leans conservative, while I am more liberal. This could be a source of conflict in any relationship, but I think the fact that he and I communicate so differently (and our brains process information differently) adds a whole new layer to the challenges related to our differing perspectives.

 

[sisselcakes]

Yeah, but it seems the OP is trying to tie Autism to a specific politics which is Bullcrap of the stinkiest kind. If they believe that, they will be trying to figure out a way to take away our right to vote next. And if that won't fly, fall back on the eugenics long game.

Some people have to politicize everything.

You misunderstood the OP.

 

[sisselcakes]

It is interesting to hear what he thinks about various studies and topics that I enjoy. He talks about IQ, sociology, and liberal/conservative behavior (he is conservative). I find it interesting to hear a conservative perspective, in general.

It could be useful, fun, or interesting for the original poster to watch some of his lectures with her boyfriend.

For example he says that socialism is impossible because everyone cannot have an equal IQ. I agree at the micro level, but think at the macro level that a level of socialism works. Canada, England, or Australia are more socialist then the US, and they are not making anyone who wants to be a doctor into a doctor. What I think of when people talk about socialism is a meritocracy. Those that could be a doctor, for example, are helped via pooling of resources, and this would likely result in more doctors being trained. This is what we had (a lot more of) in the US after WWII with the GI Bill.

Hey, just reading this. I think you were referring to Jordan Peterson here. I actually played his interview with Bill Maher in the car for my bf because professor Peterson believes political correctness is damaging to our culture and he makes some decent points. I can't tell you what he thought, bc my bf doesn't say much.

I've actually had some interesting interactions with my bf and his friend who both feel the same way. He doesn't often give me much indication that he's listening to me, though he tells me "I'm always listening", so I'm not sure if he's actually processing what I say. My argument to him and his friend (re: political correctness) was that words have power.

I had proof he had been listening to me during these "conversations" because we got into an argument once and I told him he was brainwashed, which dear God, was the wrong thing to say. I mean, for me, that is not in the least bit insulting; but for him it was like I had spit on his mother's grave. His retort was, "I can't believe you said that. You always say words have power." I guess he had been listening all along!

 

[sisselcakes]

Propaganda and marketing are fascinating. We definitely have a great deal of propaganda and marketing going on when someone says one thing, and does another. Or when people believe someone whom is blatantly lying. Or when we are told not to trust other sources of information in order to verify a story. Or to only trust these sources when they agree with the held argument. It is crazy stupid fascinating watching the political reality that we are in.

Speaking of propaganda... My bf has been on me forever to get off of twitter because I was obsessed with it and he says it's bad for your mental health. I finally did because I couldn't handle all of the details of everything going on in the world today. Was upsetting me too much. I can't believe I've stuck to my guns and have been on the wagon for like 5 days. LOL

 

[Rich Gray]

Politically correct: tends to lean towards the individual is more important than the group.

Conservatives: tend to lean towards the group is more important than the individual (a good thing).
Liberals: tend to lean towards the individual is more important than the group (a good thing).

Conservatives: tend to distrust outsiders (a good thing).
Liberals: tend to be interested in outsiders (a good thing).

Basically being politically correct is kind of asking conservatives to be more liberal. This must be why (some) conservatives hate it so much (especially perhaps those on the extreme end).

 

[Rich Gray]

Hey, just reading this. I think you were referring to Jordan Peterson here. I actually played his interview with Bill Maher in the car for my bf because professor Peterson believes political correctness is damaging to our culture and he makes some decent points. I can't tell you what he thought, bc my bf doesn't say much.

Sometimes you have to hurt peoples feelings. Sometimes it is a bad idea.

If the subject mater at hand is important, then often one should be open and honest and this may hurt peoples feelings.

Folks also need a knob. These ideas are not an on/off switch.

It would seem that some want unfettered access to hurt people. After all this is our first amendment right . . . to hurt people with words.

Is being politically correct important? Yes
Is being non-politically correct important? Yes

Sometimes you need both. They are both tools in the tool box. Not using them both is stupid . . . well unless you are Mr. Rogers, then you just Mr. Rogers up the place, and win.

If one of my friends (one that you know well) says something crazy stupid I may let him have it full-force.

If one of my friends is on a date, and says something crazy stupid . . . then I would likely be a lot more politically correct.

 

[Lotus08]

Thank you for validating my point of view. LOL. I just want some good old-fashioned validation just like any run of the mill NT.

Maybe it's not a matter of logical vs. not (in his case). Maybe more inflexibility? That's what seems to happen. When we have discussions about things, it's like he can't readily accept new information into his "schema" (for lack of a better word). Granted, I have my world view as well, but I can understand another's point of view even if I disagree and can change my mind if the argument is LOGICAL. It's like he can't or won't even entertain a new idea.

Could be a personality thing too- controlling and wanting to be right. There's a difference between a neurologically-bound inability to be cognitively flexible and a need to be right. The other thing that adds to the mix is we are both passionate about certain things, so we can get worked up over them (sociopolitical stuff).

I sure appreciate your input!

"Could be a personality thing too- controlling and wanting to be right."
No, that's typical behaviour of someone with aspergers. I have a partner of nearly 8 years, 2 kids together & the whole time we've been together he's displayed what I saw as 'odd behaviour'. It's not actually odd after all, it's just typical. They don't see other's points of view, cannot reason the same as an NT. They are always 'right'. This sounds so negative and attacking but it's just the facts. I could use better terminology but I'll keep it simple.

 

[Fridgemagnetman]

They don't see other's points of view, cannot reason the same as an NT. They are always 'right'.

A pleasing generalisation to read.

Fortunately for everyone with Asperger's we can't see your point of view - so it doesn't matter.

NT's call that sarcasm .

I'm sure we're not supposed to understand that either .

This sounds so negative and attacking but it's just the facts. I could use better terminology but I'll keep it simple

Yes,best keep it simple .

Although that's also irrelevant - see point 1

 

[starving_artist]

"Could be a personality thing too- controlling and wanting to be right."
No, that's typical behaviour of someone with aspergers. I have a partner of nearly 8 years, 2 kids together & the whole time we've been together he's displayed what I saw as 'odd behaviour'. It's not actually odd after all, it's just typical. They don't see other's points of view, cannot reason the same as an NT. They are always 'right'. This sounds so negative and attacking but it's just the facts. I could use better terminology but I'll keep it simple.

are you the person who makes that heartlessaspergers website? because your anti-autism bigotry sounds a lot like hers.

 

[Sid Delicious]

""Could be a personality thing too- controlling and wanting to be right."
No, that's typical behaviour of someone with aspergers."

You mean that's typical behaviour of your partner with aspergers (who we've pointed out likely has additional problems). I could make the same sweeping generalisation about NT behaviour based on all the NTs I know (which are far more in number than the aspies I've met). The handful of aspies I've had a chance to know well are far better at logically reasoning through an argument, even if that argument differs from their own. NTs more typically use emotion to 'reason' through an argument, and then get annoyed when the 'aspie can't see their point of view'. Usually if an aspie can't understand another point of view, it's because it is based on emotion rather than logic and makes no sense to us.

 

[Fridgemagnetman]

aspie can't see their point of view'. Usually if an aspie can't understand another point of view, it's because it is based on emotion rather than logic and makes no sense to us.

It's a typical pattern.

1. Sentence is said - the meaning of the sentence is emotional - but subconscious in the NT
2. Reaction is not what is expected.
3. Blame,labels are attached to the reaction - based ,not on what was said, but the expected emotional response (metamessage or ememe (emotional meme) )
4. The ASD person has responded to the literal meaning of the words and is confused by the extreme reaction.
5. ASD withdraws in standard fashion,becoming voiceless and unable to express and label the confusion of hurt he/she feels.
6. NT friends can be brought in at this point. They are used for emotional confirmation, to bolster the thought 'I am right on this.'

Time moves on, this incident is labelled and filed,gathered together with numerous other incidents to build an idea of 'character' in the NT.

Each separate incident likely to be based on a misunderstanding of communication.

The next incident occurs - the background of character is used to try to win emotional arguments and is used as emotional based evidence.

Something like that

 

[Sid Delicious]

^ Pretty much, yes!

For example, it took me 20 years to work out that sometimes when people are upset/annoyed and complain to you about a problem... they only want emotional support and don't actually want you to offer logical suggestions to fix the problem and will get angry and frustrated if you do this. I've lost count of the number of times I've been 'cold, uncaring, unemotional, etc' because I failed to realise this mistake. My response/solution will always be 'wrong' in such cases. Especially when gossip or drama between two or more people is involved. I still have absolutely no idea what the 'right' answer is in situations like that and normally get in trouble for 'choosing sides' if I make any attempt to offer a rational solution to the core problem rather than considering all the background emotional ties/history between the people involved. Even if my response solves the actual problem, it will be 'wrong' because it doesn't take into account all the emotional background noise (which I can't see and don't understand).

Got into trouble for this yesterday, so apologies for the rant!

 

[Lotus08]

A pleasing generalisation to read.

Fortunately for everyone with Asperger's we can't see your point of view - so it doesn't matter.

NT's call that sarcasm .

I'm sure we're not supposed to understand that either .



Yes,best keep it simple .

Although that's also irrelevant - see point 1

Hi, The statement that I made about you not seeing our point of view & your statement that it doesn't matter & that "sounds like sarcasm"...I don't think I'd say it's sarcastic that you say you as an AS doesn't see it. I think, it can be dangerous.
EG: In particular some NT & AS relationships. (I'm referring to mine). I am aware different scales of conflict happen to all types of people, but the reaction of my AS partner to a situation I see as 'abnormal' is 'normal' to him (by experience with my AS partner). It can & has been the premise for us to separate. With a family, it is devastating. I just need help to learn how to understand the condition for a more meaningful relationship. Any good podcasts/specialists out there?

 

[Fridgemagnetman]

your statement that it doesn't matter & that "sounds like sarcasm"...I don't think I'd say it's sarcastic that you say you as an AS doesn't see it. I think, it can be dangerous.

Did you misunderstand my post?
My statement was sarcastic.
Hence not to be taken literally.

Ie. You were generalising.
We do understand.

That was the point.

If you read the board with an open mind you can learn all you need to here.

Knowing morem about ASD does not mean an individual who chooses not to take responsibility for themselves and their actions will suddenly start doing so.

ASD can be a difficult thing to understand - approached from either side - but it can also be a barrier.
A barrier which prevents you seeing your relationship with a single individual.

As they said in unison in the Life of Brian film "Yes,we are all individuals."
(Please ignore the last joke,what I said still stands.)

 

[Oldlady]

I have found that as a 'thinking' type (see Meyers-Briggs) that it is pretty easy for me to get into an argument with a 'feeler'. It's not that we disagree for the most part, but rather that we come at the agreed upon material from exact opposite perspectives.