Black and White Thinking

[Aspychata]

The intricate layers of grey kinda of depend on how sophisticated the values of society are, these tend to dictate the intricacies of the various moral compass we oscillate thru.

 

[Aspychata]

@Au Naturel

Exactly, it's the you must be silenced that always follows, which is part of the playbook of B&W thinkers. There is no tolerance or you fall into pool of grey, and yes, l have clearly come across it here. Because grey thinking becomes very threatening for some absurd reason, of its the gateway to Satan's domain.

 

[Aspychata]

It's a fascinating subject to me.

 

[Thinx]

I don't understand about the colour spectrum, are all the colours in black, say, and/ or white? Because that would make the topic brighter for me. I don't like the dullness of having to choose black and white, or greys. I choose a rainbow of colours! Shades of a rainbow..

 

[Aspychata]

Maybe we could breakdown grey into a colorwheel to get people to open up. Maybe the whole grey thing adds a negative connotation that something devious is happening, with color we tilt away from the uncertainty of grey. Alright @Thinx

 

[The Pandector]

Many people may think me to be close minded, but they’re absolutely wrong.

There would be no conversation if there were agreement about which parts are grey. I hereby define the grey area as that part of a domain about which reasonable and honest people might disagree.

Of course, one reason we might disagree is because each of us has formed an interpretation of the facts without having all the facts. Any two distinct subsets of legitimate facts might lead to different conclusions. The other obvious source of disagreement is prejudice. Prejudice brings into the equation facts that not everyone agrees belong with the data set. So, I don’t expect to find agreement about the grey area.

Maybe because I used to train technicians, I can often look and see where a logical chain is broken. You can fix bad information. You can even train to correct faulty reasoning.

Much more difficult to fix prejudice. Humans live and learn; it’s what we do. Another way to say ‘learn a lesson’ is ‘develop a prejudice.’ We usually draw our conclusions without consulting others. To agree on which part is grey would take some commonality of background, of prejudice.

Also, some people are just naturally more insightful than others, so there would be a disparity of conclusions from identical data sets. Others are just very slow to support any conclusions whatsoever.

Now I’ll reveal my true opinion. Whether due to our natural laziness or discomfort with conflict/disagreement, many people don’t come to conclusions without being cornered. My experience is that many people have little interest in disciplining their deliberative process. These days, the classic logical fallacies are actually used as political paradigms.

Whether or not you agree with my true opinion, the fact remains that some people have very patchy data sets, while others have undisciplined thought processes. Therefore, some analyses are more valid than others.

The real gold standard is justified confidence; short of that, humility is called for. Just my opinion.

 

[Progster]

In an ideal world, people shouldn't be offended by a difference of opinion, but that's not what happens. I think it's because the person is emotionally invested in their opinion, and also because their own ego won't allow them to admit that they may be wrong, or there may be another angle to it.

I have black and white thinking in certain areas. In my case, it's mainly due to negative, or positive, personal experience, or to sensory issues. My dislike of smoking would be a good example here. If I've had a nasty personal experience with something, then the negative emotion that comes with it dominates and makes it very difficult to see any positive in it.

 

[Aspychata]

All excellent responses, definitely prejudices and bias, and faulty thinking, incomplete data sets, pure laziness , apathy and chez burgers all make up this equation of black and white conformity with just some subsets of gray thrown in for good measure. Are we better at B&W jobs vs layers of grey jobs?

 

[Au Naturel]

I guess I'm in the minority -- I love the grey. I try to live in the grey. It's more comforting to me than B&W. But it's a very lonely place since most people, not just autistics, prefer B&W. It's more comforting to them and I understand. Grey is acknowledging that life is not simple and orderly and no one likes that. So much of the world functions on B&W. Just the way it is in order to move forward collectively I suppose. And it makes sense to me.

The thing about trying to explain the 'grey' is that it's not just you that has to communicate in a way that is easily considered, the other person also has to have an open mind on that particular topic and also capacity to accept the grey idea, which is not easy. And some can reject these ideas violently and aggressively in order to cling on to the binary ...our brains still have binary instincts as a means of survival as mentioned above, a categorizing function in order to make neat and tidy worlds for ourselves:

Fight or flight: Eat or be eaten. All about survival
Us vs them: Tribalism. once primitive human decided that it's safer in groups than being isolated.
Right vs Wrong: a tool that was created to promote social order (still being morally debated today)

So to answer your question: there isn't a straightforward answer (ahem grey). Depends on who is on the receiving end of the debate. For some, I use examples: For example, many years ago autism fell into the BW trap.. but now we know it's a spectrum. It's grey. You can't lump us all together and say we're all the same. Nor can you do the same with NTs. And now gender, we know it's no longer a B&W area. APPLY that concept to other things. Even right vs wrong: opinions vary on this. Morality is all full of grey areas. Because it's all based on opinions. Sure you can think your opinion is right but doesn't make it more valid than the next person's.

Tolerance is all gray. It forces you to step out of the Us vs Them mentality and accept that another person's reality is not your own and that they should be allowed to continue to live and think their way, same as you.

Empathy is all gray. You can empathize with a person even if you don't agree with them, the two aren't mutually exclusive. I can empathize with a person who committed a terrible crime if I stepped back and considered their background, maybe they had untold crimes committed against them, has mental issues because of it and is lashing out. Do I agree committing a crime was justified? No. But can I empathize more for this person as opposed to someone who simply did it just for selfish personal gain? Maybe? Or maybe the person who did it for selfish reasons did it because it's what they were taught and all they know (their parents did it therefore it's a learned behavior).

Now others would say, "my parents did some very bad things to me but that doesn't mean I followed their lead". Well of course you didn't, because you are NOT that other person. You don't have the same genes, same personality, same weaknesses, same decision-making skills, same temperament, etc. Does that make you morally superior? Debatable.
Gray.

I believe there was another post recently about how we might all find out one day that there's no such thing as genetic free will. We each are all biologically pre-programmed to think and feel based on our unique set of genes and have little control of it. Yet again, another grey area that's going to be hard to grapple with if that's true.

As you can see it's just entering an endless rabbit hole which destroys the orderly world we want it to be (which is also ironic because autism is still considered a disorder isn't it? We are literal greys in the NT world --they collectively still have to figure out "what to do with us"). That's why I think it's important to embrace the grey cuz we know what it's like to live in it.

In the real world, grey is all there is. The only difference is in intensity. Black and white are just shades of grey that are very light or very dark. The limitations on seeing lighter and darker shades are in our ability to perceive and not reality.

Embrace the grey. Black and white are just the grey of an unknown country.

Grey itself is just a perfect balance of red, blue, and green hitting your receptors. No two people will see grey exactly alike.

 

[Mr. Stevens]

Black and White thinking (and feeling) is part of autism. There are not a single autists who is not affected by this one way or another.

This is true, though I find it funny we're called high or low-functioning by people who say we're black and white thinkers. All people have areas of black and white thinking--which could be good or bad, as Magna suggested. I wonder if it's more criticized in us due to our need for clarity and rules. That certainly displeases non-Autistic people.

 

[Atrapa Almas]

This is true, though I find it funny we're called high or low-functioning by people who say we're black and white thinkers. All people have areas of black and white thinking--which could be good or bad, as Magna suggested. I wonder if it's more criticized in us due to our need for clarity and rules. That certainly displeases non-Autistic people.

When I talk with an NT that looks like a B&W thinker I often wonder if they are just reflecting the thoughts of their social group.

NTs do have this interesting feature of blending themselves with their group opinions and activities.

 

[autism-and-autotune]

Over the years, my ways of thinking have changed from black and white to grey. I used to be very judgemental and not understand why I didn't understand issues because I couldn't see things from another's perspective. For example: I used to outwardly not be understanding of those who are non-binary, transgender, or asexual. How can someone feel they are something which contrasts to what they appear as? "I don't believe in it," one day I answered when questioned by a student on why I'd referred to another student as 'him' and not 'they.' What I'd meant was that I didn't understand it--the aspect of being no-binary. 'What's the point in getting offended for somebody?' Perhaps I expressed that I didn't understand the aspect; perhaps not.

All I know is that the situation would bite me in the derriere years later when my then-girlfriend would reveal to me their own non-binary feelings. Change, of course, took me a while to get used to. But no one can control what or how I think of another person, so...can I still call them 'she'? Since college I have become more understanding not only of the concept of being non-binary, but of the fact that people feel how they want to feel about themselves and I can do nothing about it. Granted, I don't understand it because I can't relate to their feelings, but I can still respect what they feel about themselves, even if I don't 'agree' with it.

It's very very hard to shift perspective and ways of thinking especially with our black-and-white minds. I've learned to become less judgemental straight away and more accepting.

 

[Mr. Stevens]

When I talk with an NT that looks like a B&W thinker I often wonder if they are just reflecting the thoughts of their social group.

NTs do have this interesting feature of blending themselves with their group opinions and activities.

Good point. I've noticed that, too, and it often comes with a double standard. I work at an adult day program, and if individuals there perseverate on favorite topics, staff will often gang up on them. Or the person has a goal to perseverate less and develop "social skills." Yet, staff will repeat the same boring jokes week after week, or rant every morning about politics and religion. So they can be repetitive and annoying, but the people we serve can't repeat stories. It's a sense of right and wrong based entirely on self-image.

 

[Jordy]

There are lots of studies (and books) on the topic of black and white thinking as an autism thing. Im sure you can search it if you are interested in learning.

Here is an article that explains the same I posted in a better way and without english mistakes:

https://www.psychedconsult.com/no-room-for-gray-here/

I disagree with it being a useful In describing how autistic people think.

Ever studied Boolean algebra? It's very useful, let's you solve all kinds of problems.

 

[Atrapa Almas]

Ever studied Boolean algebra? It's very useful, let's you solve all kinds of problems.

Yes, I am an engineer too.

It never helped me to make friends, confort my wife, conect with others, teamwork, educate my daugther or be loved.

What kind of problems does boolean algebra solve in your life?

 

[Jordy]

Yes, I am an engineer too.

It never helped me to make friends, confort my wife, conect with others, teamwork, educate my daugther or be loved.

What kind of problems does boolean algebra solve in your life?

Almost any situation that requires you to make a binary decision will require you to do logic.

What exactly is the difference between black and white thinking or doing any form of logic that deals with true and false?

 

[Jordy]

I never know how quite to respond to very rigid thinking without offending said other. I can explain that there are other schools of thought. Not sure really if its even my business to bring it up.

Has anybody else come up with ways to discuss issues in a non-threatening manner that doesn't upset this type of thinker?

Sometimes "rigid thinking" is just disagreeableness, which isn't bad in and of itself. My disagreeableness did often leads to awkward social situations were i will just not agree with someone who is supposed to by somewhat of an authority, like a teacher.

 

[Atrapa Almas]

Almost any situation that requires you to make a binary decision will require you to do logic.

What exactly is the difference between black and white thinking or doing any form of logic that deals with true and false?

Do you mean something like this?

 

[Jordy]

Do you mean something like this?

View attachment 99843

This is how an autistic can try to cope with not having intuitive social understandings. What is your point here? That a rigid binary decision diagram isn't great for social interactions? That doesn't mean black and white thinking is always wrong, or that autistic people can only do black and white thinking.

Also decisions made with the help of intuition aren't necessary non black and white.

I also dislike the cutesy psychology illustrations. Mental disorders aren't cute.

 

[Atrapa Almas]

I guess that negating that Black and White thinking is a problem is your own cute and special way to provide help with Aspychata request.

What is your point here?

I was wondering exactly that of each of your posts in the thread. Aspychata ask for help and phantom negates the problem, negates solutions, negates B&W thinking relation with autism and negates even the drawing stlyle of the picture... So whats phantom point? How is he trying to contribute to this thread?

I guess negation is your own way of copying with problems, because after negating them they are no longer problems. And you are sharing that trick with Aspychata.

Its cute and kind in your own way.