Bullying in the Autistic community

[SRSAutistic]

I am often bullied or made the target of hurtful jokes by people in my "social circles" who are also autistic. So, no, not an oxymoron. Unfortunately.

You would think that people who have also (probably) been bullied their whole lives, and are used to being different and outcast and not fitting in, and being "quirky" or having non-mainstream interests themselves, would have more sympathy and empathy for those who are in the same situation. And, you know, not try to make them feel worse

There have also been some members on here during the time that I've been here who have bullied/picked on other members. I don't like to see it or be around it but it happens from time to time.

Hi @Luca,

I am very surprised that there are bullies in the autistic community. I always used to think that NTs always bully us for being 'different' and quirky. As a result of our 'non-mainstream' special interests, NTs like to make fun of us for 'being obsessed with that one thing and always talking about it to the point of boredom'.

It's very sad that there are bullies on the site, but the best thing to do in these scenarios is to try to ignore them.

In high school, I was bullied so much, and I always thought that the students always had ableist thoughts about me. Hopefully, I won't experience bullying on this forum. When the pandemic started and everything shut down, I decided to stop passing as NT for good. Now, I don't care about how other people view me. I just need to ignore the bullies who don't care about anyone else. Bullies have problems with their own lives. I believe that autism is not a disability; it is a different ability. I am autistic, but it doesn't make me any less intelligent. It is a wide spectrum of abilities and weaknesses; we are all different in our own ways.

Regards,

SRSAutistic

 

[Stuttermabolur]

I suspect that a big reason why autistic people can bully others is because many have experienced trauma, bullying and bad life experiences themselves. Masking for a long time can also be aggravating and tiring which can lead to taking your annoyance out on others.

In popular consciousness, the view generally seems to be that trauma and hardship "makes you stronger", and that those who have gone through tough experiences take some lesson from it and try to prevent it happening to others. In my experience however, this is very much not the case, and oftentimes those who have struggled the most often take their frustration out on others, or never learn about healthy, non-belittling ways to socialize.

Thinking back on it, most of my bullies were not the popular kids as they didn't feel the need to put others down since they were secure in their position. My two biggest bullies were both former friends of mine, from poorer parents (like me) and had other struggles. One of them has ADHD while the other one comes from an immigrant family. Believe me, I know immigrants and kids with ADHD are very often targets of bullying, so I'm not at all saying that it caused the bullying, but rather that they did not have an easy life and were likely taking their frustrations out on me. I don't think the underlying reasons behind bullying change much once you are an adult.​

 

[Luca]

I suspect that a big reason why autistic people can bully others is because many have experienced trauma, bullying and bad life experiences themselves. Masking for a long time can also be aggravating and tiring which can lead to taking your annoyance out on others.

In popular consciousness, the view generally seems to be that trauma and hardship "makes you stronger", and that those who have gone through tough experiences take some lesson from it and try to prevent it happening to others. In my experience however, this is very much not the case, and oftentimes those who have struggled the most often take their frustration out on others, or never learn about healthy, non-belittling ways to socialize.

Thinking back on it, most of my bullies were not the popular kids as they didn't feel the need to put others down since they were secure in their position. My two biggest bullies were both former friends of mine, from poorer parents (like me) and had other struggles. One of them has ADHD while the other one comes from an immigrant family. Believe me, I know immigrants and kids with ADHD are very often targets of bullying, so I'm not at all saying that it caused the bullying, but rather that they did not have an easy life and were likely taking their frustrations out on me. I don't think the underlying reasons behind bullying change much once you are an adult.​

I think this is definitely the case for some people with traumatic pasts, but I have been through really extreme trauma and have never intentionally put anyone down, and have definitely never bullied anyone (or wanted to.)

The only instances, ever, of me being “not nice” have been when I was being assertive and maybe too blunt. I have never, ever used my trauma (or my autism) as an excuse to treat anyone badly. And I always apologize if I’ve done something offensive by accident.
I also HATE when people treat others badly or do things that are horrible and wrong and I obviously rant about that a lot.
There are others on here like me, too.

However, I understand that this isn’t the case for everyone, and have definitely experienced people lashing out because they can’t mentally differentiate between their bullies/abusers and people who might just have an opposing belief or opinion. And some autistic people, not just trauma survivors, definitely have the “I’m a perpetual victim, everyone else has a problem and not me” mentality or the “my biased opinions are FACTS!” mentality, which really aggravates me too. I have had conflicts with a lot of those types of people, even on here.

I agree with you, just thought it was worth mentioning that there are, in fact, trauma victims who don’t want to lash out at others, even if they’re in the minority.

 

[Slime_Punk]

I used to be bullied as a kid, so I turned around and bullied other kids. It makes me want to cry just thinking about how much of a jerk I was, even though they were usually the ones to thrown the first punch, threaten me with knives or whatever.

I think it's like an ungift that keeps on ungifting. People who are bullies are probably the most affected by other bullies. Some people just aren't capable of seeing the error in their own ways (NPD, BPD, some types of ASD) and it's likely not their fault... but, that can give some explanation to why some people are the way they are.

The best gift of all is being able to learn from your past mistakes so that you don't make them again.

 

[Jonn]

I'm part of another online community (aquascaping related) and I see sooo much bullying it's disgusting.

Using an evolutionary context, bullies embrace their more primitive side (their "reptilian brain" as opposed to their logical/intellectual pre-frontal cortex). They place dominance as a priority over fair mindedness.
Personally, I find that sort of thinking brutish and embarrassing. They are cringe-worthy.
Overall, I find these deviant autistics rather amusing.

 

[Jonn]

It only happened to me once but like everyone else we're all different and of course there's gonna be bullies in our ranks.

I would have thought this would be deviant behaviour, but unfortunately, I have been in situations where the problem was endemic in the autistic community. It seems there are cases where bullying is a community problem and not simply a personality defect.

 

[Jonn]

Sadly, the biggest bullies I've found online were Autistic

When I was much younger, I expected problems with NT communities because of misunderstandings. I came to the conclusion that I would be better off giving NT websites a miss and engage with the autistic community instead. I was shocked when I discovered the amount of bullying in autistic settings could be just as bad.

I came to the autistic community because I was looking for a safe place that I could call "home".
To say I was disappointed is a major understatement.
To be clear, I have never had a problem with AutismForum.

It seemed like they'd taken the experience they (or others they had heard about) had experienced from people who didn't like them when they were younger, and decided to apply that treatment to others who they in turn didn't like

Unfortunately, there are some people who are not suited to a moderator position and use the situation to service their emotional needs rather than work from a platform incorporating integrity.
The statement "Power corrupts and absolute power tends to corrupt absolutely" springs to mind.

What I find particularly disappointing is the double stands that is accompanied by those not suitable to the position of moderator. Servicing their needs and the needs of their "buddies" is the sort of corruption I had not expected in an autistic community, but I know better these days.

As I have said, while disappointed at the lack of integrity of some on the autistic spectrum, I still believe overall, the autistic community has a greater sense of honesty and fair-mindedness than most "normal" websites.

 

[Jonn]

I wonder if perhaps that's due to many of us having difficulty reading or understanding situations, and tending to get by with imitating what we've seen or experienced, not realizing that some things we've seen or experienced are inappropriate.

Not in the situations I am referring to.
The problem here is deliberate bias and misrepresentation.

 

[Jonn]

Not to mention sometimes we have a set way of thinking about something and will be so certain that we are correct that we don’t see any other angles. an Old psych of mine used to call it black and white thinking. No gray.

Thinking as individuals is one thing.
Simply following an ingrained narrative by the groupthink power group of a community, is another.

 

[Jonn]

I used to be bullied as a kid, so I turned around and bullied other kids.

This can be the consequence of being bullied, yes.
Most people grow out of this tendency when the rational part of their brain matures, imo.

The best gift of all is being able to learn from your past mistakes so that you don't make them again.

Agreed.

 

[All-Rounder]

I used to believe "autistic bullies" was an oxymoron.
Unfortunately, experience has taught me it is not.

Has anyone else experienced this problem?

I was interested in a certain guy with glasses >.> In the community at some point.

Because I dared suggest his behavior was at a point not so good in private and how it could improve he started saying that I do not actually like him and that I'm a pretender, all sorts of stuff, trees of conclusions drawn.

Before I could catch myself from the shock of his irrational rage whatever his issue was, he had already told everyone how terrible I was.

He was new to the community, I was already popular but that didn't matter. The amount of brainwash he was able to inflict upon those I considered in great relations with me I will never forget. One of them asked for my side of story. This person and others had at a point where I was not seen in the chatroom briefly talked of their opinions with the confusing event. They took his side. Perhaps because he was a guy? Who knows. I felt betrayed and misled.

So yeah autistic people are troubled, and trouble. They lie. They betray. They can feel betrayed even when their condition impairs them from feeling connection towards others, I've noticed. Get irrational. Selfish. Be unreasonable.

Most people I felt I had to work hard to write to them, being creative with my messages a lot, offering discussion content and I would not get a reply. There was one specific guy who by his own volition messaged me not only once. Friend material and dedicated, very cool interesting individual. His messages were more than generally and had content, also he was emotionally supportive if I would share a bad event in my comments.

 

[Jonn]

They took his side. Perhaps because he was a guy? Who knows. I felt betrayed and misled.

There are always two sides to the story.
It surprises me how easily some people jump to conclusions without having all the facts available.
This was a major problem I encountered in the other autistic community I was involved with.
Nature of the human beast, so it seems.

Before people make a judgement, I suggest they engage with the other party and get their side of the story.
And please keep in mind that we are on the autism spectrum with the inherent communication problems that come with that.

A major concern is the recurring problem of simple misunderstanding morphing into misrepresentation.
I am sure, overwhelmingly, this is unintentional.

Once again, I suggest people ask for clarification from both parties before a firm opinion is made.

 

[Jonn]

Some things I have observed about bullying, particularly gang bullying:

The context:
- World events.
- Both NT and ND.

There seem to be 3 main consequences of perpetual bullying:
1. The victim engages in self-harm.
2. The victim retaliates aggressively.
3. The victim becomes defiant.

With the first 2, the perpetrators have "blood on their hands".

 

[All-Rounder]

I am often bullied or made the target of hurtful jokes by people in my "social circles" who are also autistic. So, no, not an oxymoron. Unfortunately.

You would think that people who have also (probably) been bullied their whole lives, and are used to being different and outcast and not fitting in, and being "quirky" or having non-mainstream interests themselves, would have more sympathy and empathy for those who are in the same situation. And, you know, not try to make them feel worse

There have also been some members on here during the time that I've been here who have bullied/picked on other members. I don't like to see it or be around it but it happens from time to time.

I try to be careful with my laugh emote on people who are arguing with one another as I'm not a fan of taking sides, my aim is to love everyone equally; or people who are expressing something sensitive but not every autistic has the same values sadly. Valueless people are hard to have relations with. It's nothing but trouble.

I also am very sensitive to jokes especially written about something like my opinion, preference, trauma, it's been happening years ago, still unchanged today. People will be people. I consider such to be rude, insensitive, mocking, indirect hostility. The very very few people I had ignored back in the day and the only problem worth doing it for was for that repeated behavior.

In this autistic community it happens more and less friendly compared to other jokesters.

Another thing that happened a lot still does is people showing aggression before they're ignoring a member who probably aggravates them and saying publicly they're putting them on ignore. I don't know why but it seems people learn bad behavior from one another. It's a way to antagonize. That's something personal, there is no point in saying it, like they're encouraging others to hate or also ignore the individual or what, cancelling the person for their views, views which are not aggressive or hateful. Or for continuing to talk about their views but not engaging someone directly. It's aggressive expression of emotion and judgement. Thankfully it doesn't get tolerated once reported.

Sometimes it boils down to people not knowing to disagree and accept differences to help them let go of rage or allow someone to also have their turn to talk about something. Like they had their turn then when someone with a different view joins in they're the bad guy. Not a friendly discussion or impersonal fun debate.

 

[Neonatal RRT]

Re: autistic bullies

Autistic or neurotypical, if one does not have some understanding of "system 1" thinking,...your quick-witted, emotionally-charged responses that highlight all your implicit biases,...versus your "system 2" thinking,...the types of responses that occur after a long pause to take in context, perspective, and minimize biases and emotion,...then yes,...anyone can come off as a bully,...or simply an inconsiderate jerk.

I am thinking the uneducated, unaware autistic individual may actually be more at risk for system 1 thinking,...as the psychology would suggest a tendency towards less understanding of verbal and non-verbal communication, less cognitive empathy,...and less perspective taking. However, anyone with some education and application in these techniques, autistic or not, may become significantly better at system 2 thinking,...learning to pause,...process things more thoroughly,...then respond in a more thoughtful manner.

https://thedecisionlab.com/reference-guide/philosophy/system-1-and-system-2-thinking

 

[Jonn]

Autistic or neurotypical, if one does not have some understanding of "system 1" thinking,...your quick-witted, emotionally-charged responses that highlight all your implicit biases,...versus your "system 2" thinking,...the types of responses that occur after a long pause to take in context, perspective, and minimize biases and emotion,...then yes,...anyone can come off as a bully,...or simply an inconsiderate jerk.

Noice.

I am thinking the uneducated, unaware autistic individual may actually be more at risk for system 1 thinking,...as the psychology would suggest a tendency towards less understanding of verbal and non-verbal communication, less cognitive empathy,...and less perspective taking. However, anyone with some education and application in these techniques, autistic or not, may become significantly better at system 2 thinking,...learning to pause,...process things more thoroughly,...then respond in a more thoughtful manner.

Noice.
Very informative/enlightening.

I wouldn't mind seeing a separate thread created on "System 1&2 thinking".

 

[Atrapa Almas]

I wouldn't mind seeing a separate thread created on "System 1&2 thinking".

You can start here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thinking,_Fast_and_Slow

 

[Jonn]

I learned a trick when I was a kid, when someone pushed me around I said "is that the best you can do?" and laughed. So they tried harder. And I laughed and said "is that the best you can do?". It makes people feel stupid and powerless when the guy they are trying to bully laughs at them and is unimpressed by their effort.

Bullies want an emotional reaction of their choosing.
Defying their expectations neuters them.
The more I am bullied, the more defiant I become.

 

[Jonn]

Sadly, the biggest bullies I've found online were Autistic - It seemed like they'd taken the experience they (or others they had heard about) had experienced from people who didn't like them when they were younger, and decided to apply that treatment to others who they in turn didn't like (either the person themself or the views they were presenting) - This became even worse when they were handed power over others, where they were then in a position both to bully others, as well as enforce "punishment" should their victims respond in any way.

It is common for ppl who are suppressed to become bullies themselves when they gain a degree of power.
I was shocked when I encountered this with other autistic ppl.
I expected better.
I am no longer that naive.

 

[All-Rounder]

It is common for ppl who are suppressed to become bullies themselves when they gain a degree of power.
I was shocked when I encountered this with other autistic ppl.
I expected better.
I am no longer that naive.

It's very strange when the bullied turns into a bully themselves. You would think they would want to prevent it but maybe they stop caring as long as they rid of their weak position.