• Welcome to Autism Forums, a friendly forum to discuss Aspergers Syndrome, Autism, High Functioning Autism and related conditions.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Private Member only forums for more serious discussions that you may wish to not have guests or search engines access to.
    • Your very own blog. Write about anything you like on your own individual blog.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon! Please also check us out @ https://www.twitter.com/aspiescentral

Bullying in the Autistic community

Bullying is the use of force, coercion, hurtful teasing or threat, to abuse, aggressively dominate or intimidate. The behavior is often repeated and habitual. One essential prerequisite is the perception (by the bully or by others) of an imbalance of physical or social power. This imbalance distinguishes bullying from conflict.[1][2] Bullying is a subcategory of aggressive behavior characterized by hostile intent, imbalance of power and repetition over a period of time.[3] Bullying is the activity of repeated, aggressive behavior intended to hurt another individual, physically, mentally or emotionally. - Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullying
Again the domination dynamic you talked about is showing. Instinctual humans.
 
Bullying can be done individually or by a group, called mobbing,[4] in which the bully may have one or more followers who are willing to assist the primary bully or who reinforce the bully by providing positive feedback such as laughing.[5] Bullying in school and the workplace is also referred to as "peer abuse".[6] Robert W. Fuller has analyzed bullying in the context of rankism.[7] The Swedish-Norwegian researcher Dan Olweus says bullying occurs when a person is "exposed, repeatedly and over time, to negative actions on the part of one or more other persons",[8] and that negative actions occur "when a person intentionally inflicts injury or discomfort upon another person, through physical contact, through words or in other ways".[8] Individual bullying is usually characterized by a person behaving in a certain way to gain power over another person.

Rationalizations of such behavior sometimes include differences of social class, race, religion, gender, sexual orientation, appearance, behavior, body language, personality, reputation, lineage, strength, size, or ability.

Studies have shown that envy and resentment may be motives for bullying.[32] Research on the self-esteem of bullies has produced equivocal results.[33][34] While some bullies are arrogant and narcissistic,[35] they can also use bullying as a tool to conceal shame or anxiety or to boost self-esteem: by demeaning others, the abuser feels empowered.[36] Bullies may bully out of jealousy or because they themselves are bullied.[37] Psychologist Roy Baumeister asserts that people who are prone to abusive behavior tend to have inflated but fragile egos. Because they think too highly of themselves, they are frequently offended by the criticisms and lack of deference of other people, and react to this disrespect with violence and insults.[38][full citation needed]

Researchers have identified other risk factors such as depression[39] and personality disorders,[40] as well as quickness to anger and use of force, addiction to aggressive behaviors, mistaking others' actions as hostile, concern with preserving self-image, and engaging in obsessive or rigid actions.[41] A combination of these factors may also be causes of this behavior.[42] In one study of youth, a combination of antisocial traits and depression was found to be the best predictor of youth violence, whereas video game violence and television violence exposure were not predictive of these behaviors.

Contrarily, some researchers have suggested that some bullies are psychologically strongest and have high social standing among their peers, while their targets are emotionally distressed and socially marginalized.[46] Peer groups often promote the bully's actions, and members of these peer groups also engage in behaviors, such as mocking, excluding, punching, and insulting one another as a source of entertainment.[24] Other researchers also argued that a minority of the bullies, those who are not in-turn bullied, enjoy going to school, and are least likely to take days off sick.

Bystanders​


Often, bullying takes place in the presence of a large group of relatively uninvolved bystanders. In many cases, it is the bully's ability to create the illusion they have the support of the majority present that instills the fear of "speaking out" in protestation of the bullying activities being observed by the group. Unless the "bully mentality" is effectively challenged in any given group in its early stages, it often becomes an accepted, or supported, norm within the group.[52][53]

Unless action is taken, a "culture of bullying" is often perpetuated within a group for months, years, or longer.[54]

Bystanders who have been able to establish their own "friendship group" or "support group" have been found to be far more likely to opt to speak out against bullying behavior than those who have not.

Testosterone production​


Statistically controlling for age and pubertal status, results indicated that on average verbally bullied girls produced less testosterone, and verbally bullied boys produced more testosterone than their nonbullied counterparts.





Bullying is typically ongoing and not isolated behaviour. Common responses are to try to ignore it, to confront the bullies, or to turn to an authority figure.

Ignoring it often does nothing to stop the bullying continuing, and it can become worse over time.
 
Where is it showing? Are you talking about something/someone specifically?
No I'm not talking about you, don't worry. I was quoting Wikipedia which mentions domination if you read the paragraph I made earlier in that post.
 
Last edited:
I was rather naive about autism at one point. I believed the autistic hype that we were generally logical, honest, and fair-minded. While those traits can be found in many on the spectrum, I was shocked to learn how dysfunctional others can be.
As a result, I am less critical of NTs these days. "Every cloud has a silver lining", I guess.
I didn't think some of what people were doing was actually related to autism but I realized it probably is, like such things as not realizing or making sense of a situation completely, missing out on important things, anger, belittling and hostility. Along my many exes on the spectrum I always attributed it to some comorbid unrelated to autism.

I was reluctant to associate that with autism because that would be like an excuse for some behaviors. However I have come to the conclusion that it is autism as well that actually makes people's perception, emotions and behavior become unhelpful and even harmful.

You came up with the explanations on how that might happen, I was a little unwilling to accept that autism can contribute to some things that were causing suffering, lack of effectiveness but I guess it's not far-fetched to say that autism in itself makes people less effective.

So for the longest time I still held on to an image of perfection towards the spectrum as a disorder/variation, even though I have already come to accept the variation of personalities within the spectrum and that people can be toxic even if autistic.
 
Last edited:
I spent my whole life thinking that it’s impossible for neurodivergent people to be bullies. I was mistaken until I got older. That was a very silly and dumb misconception for me to have my whole life.
 
I was rather naive about autism at one point. I believed the autistic hype that we were generally logical, honest, and fair-minded. While those traits can be found in many on the spectrum, I was shocked to learn how dysfunctional others can be.
As a result, I am less critical of NTs these days. "Every cloud has a silver lining", I guess.
I went through a stage with a similar belief - Observing a prominent member of the autistic community make a vile accusation against one of the least offensive people I've come across (both on and off-line), refuse to provide any evidence for his accusation and then use his position to try to have the person ostracized from the community certainly helped open my eyes to how wrong that belief was...

Seeing other members of the Autistic community abusing their position to silence those they disagreed with completed that portion of my education.

As a side note, having recently worked as a member of the "Community notes" team on a large "general population" site, I've seen much less abuse there (both directed to myself as well as to other users) than I (as well as a small group of others ) was subjected to by members on the autistic community (and some who were not autistic) on a site designed to "support" and be "welcoming" to autistic people.
 
I went through a stage with a similar belief - Observing a prominent member of the autistic community make a vile accusation against one of the least offensive people I've come across (both on and off-line), refuse to provide any evidence for his accusation and then use his position to try to have the person ostracized from the community certainly helped open my eyes to how wrong that belief was...

Seeing other members of the Autistic community abusing their position to silence those they disagreed with completed that portion of my education.

As a side note, having recently worked as a member of the "Community notes" team on a large "general population" site, I've seen much less abuse there (both directed to myself as well as to other users) than I (as well as a small group of others ) was subjected to by members on the autistic community (and some who were not autistic) on a site designed to "support" and be "welcoming" to autistic people.
People sometimes cling so much to their beliefs even to the elimination of all others, perhaps because of fear or lack of believing in their posts, their own ideas. What if we can learn from the different opinions, even just to let live.

I have seen countless accusations being thrown around for no reason while all it was was a jumping to conclusions or misunderstanding. Autistic 'support' website, and as many have expressed in the past throughout years and years, though it was difficult to accept such a place would be allowed to run under the image that's unfit for it, it was certainly not a friendly place. I can understand why so many have decided to fill up a different sort of space that's better prepared to handle such things.
 
I've never seen "good person" or "has moral compass" in the DSM5, but someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

Autistic people and NT people can all be good or bad or anywhere in between depending on their personal choices and their motivation to hurt and exploit others (just as one example). Sometimes "bad choices" happen because the autistic person has comorbid mental health conditions, sometimes it's because of ADHD and impulsive thinking, or sometimes it's because of greed, lust, or boredom, and just to fit in. It can be genetic or normalised in the family. It can be the result of a personality disorder or a fetish or any other cause, just like it can for NT people. I don't think it's more likely for autistic people, but that doesn't mean it's impossible.

Some people who haven't gone through the diagnostic process of being identified autistic don't even know what "autism" means, and they envision us on a binary: either a protected class of angels or coldhearted spree killers who lack empathy and plot crimes in their parents' basements.

Somewhere in the middle lays the truth. We're human beings and there's no need to pathologise us in either direction, unless of course we deserve it.
 
I spent my whole life thinking that it’s impossible for neurodivergent people to be bullies. I was mistaken until I got older. That was a very silly and dumb misconception for me to have my whole life.
I wouldn't feel bad about thinking the best of ppl. I thought the same when I was younger.
As a group, we tend to be naive/trusting, which makes us ideal targets of psychopaths.
But just because ppl are autistic doesn't mean they can't act like sociopaths due to traumatic experiences.
 
I went through a stage with a similar belief - Observing a prominent member of the autistic community make a vile accusation against one of the least offensive people I've come across (both on and off-line), refuse to provide any evidence for his accusation and then use his position to try to have the person ostracized from the community certainly helped open my eyes to how wrong that belief was...
I have seen similar examples of bad behaviour with the power group allowing it to happen due to social/ideological connections.
Seeing other members of the Autistic community abusing their position to silence those they disagreed with completed that portion of my education.
I was shocked, also.
Initially, I couldn't believe there was a system of abuse designed to "encourage" ppl to leave a site.
My understanding is that this sort of behaviour is quite common with all community groups on the internet.
Integrity is in short supply, generally.
As a side note, having recently worked as a member of the "Community notes" team on a large "general population" site, I've seen much less abuse there (both directed to myself as well as to other users) than I (as well as a small group of others ) was subjected to by members on the autistic community (and some who were not autistic) on a site designed to "support" and be "welcoming" to autistic people.
What a pity.
 
People sometimes cling so much to their beliefs even to the elimination of all others, perhaps because of fear or lack of believing in their posts, their own ideas. What if we can learn from the different opinions, even just to let live.

I have seen countless accusations being thrown around for no reason while all it was was a jumping to conclusions or misunderstanding. Autistic 'support' website, and as many have expressed in the past throughout years and years, though it was difficult to accept such a place would be allowed to run under the image that's unfit for it, it was certainly not a friendly place. I can understand why so many have decided to fill up a different sort of space that's better prepared to handle such things.
When I researched autism almost 30 years ago, I was heavily influenced by Tony Attwood, who painted a rather rosy picture of those on the spectrum.
I wasn't prepared to see the dark side of the autistic community.
I suspect internet anonymity has had something to do with it.
"Live and learn." :cool:
 
For most people, there will always be the desire to be a part of a group. Within the group, there will always be many who aspire to more than mere membership.

Some bake cookies for others out of sheer love while others do it out of a spirit of bribery while still others just love to bake and need someplace to dump the byproduct of their passion. Then there’s the one that feels it gives her a chance to be a productive member of the community.

I see the value of the Wikipedia definition, but I have my own personal definition that serves me well. A bully is a cowardly thief, plain and simple. Cowardly, because he exclusively targets those he thinks are weaker than himself.

A bully is a thief because he robs you to feather his own nest. There are professional bullies, to be sure; gangster extortionists and modern US ‘protesters’ paid to ‘demonstrate’ come to mind.

But we’re talking about the bully who steals from your social standing to add to his own. Making you look small so he looks big, making you look stupid to make himself look smart, making you look nerdy to make himself look cool, making you look weak to make himself look strong. Yeah - no moral compass or self awareness.

I tend to lay the blame on the support group. To even stand silently by while another person is being victimized is reprehensible. But they don’t typically just stand by, they register a smile or laugh or even join in, which they would never do on their own. It takes a village full of idiotic supporters to train up the really accomplished bully.

To add to their shame, the supporters don’t even get a full dose of social boost; they do it just to maintain their trivial standing in their pathetic group of sycophants.

Just to be clear, I don’t think highly of bullies or their supporters.
 
When I researched autism almost 30 years ago, I was heavily influenced by Tony Attwood, who painted a rather rosy picture of those on the spectrum.
I wasn't prepared to see the dark side of the autistic community.
I suspect internet anonymity has had something to do with it.
"Live and learn." :cool:

Fair enough if you've had bad experience, but this seems like an odd attitude to post here, Jonn. I wouldn't go to a women's support group and talk about my bad dating experience. I sense a lot of deflection in your posts throughout this thread.
 
When I researched autism almost 30 years ago, I was heavily influenced by Tony Attwood, who painted a rather rosy picture of those on the spectrum.
I wasn't prepared to see the dark side of the autistic community.
I suspect internet anonymity has had something to do with it.
"Live and learn." :cool:
You mean like finding out that despite Mr Atwood's (and other's) assertions that people on the spectrum are known to "follow rules", be honest, and "seek the truth" that not all those on the spectrum are like that?

Discovering this is not always the case was certainly an experience I don't wish to go through again...
 
I once knew a young woman who was very Autistic, completely deaf, non-verbal, had a permanent tracheotomy, and I think a couple of other pretty serious conditions. It’s definitely possible to have more than one ‘difference’ from the normal crowd.

No doubt there are plenty of Aspie’s who are also sociopaths. And definitely a few sociopaths who are lying about being on the spectrum. Bullying is a learned behavior, usually as a result of having been bullied. I believe most of that problem originates at home, and successful Autistics are fantastic copycats. So if Dad was a bully, it’s very easy for one of us to act like one of them.

In my case it was my older brother who was the bully, and a particularly aggressive one at that (also on the spectrum). I feel like he was very angry and confused, and bullying me was sort of a self-soothing behavior that he picked up at 2 or 3 years old. Picking on me made him laugh, so he just never stopped.
 
When I researched autism almost 30 years ago, I was heavily influenced by Tony Attwood, who painted a rather rosy picture of those on the spectrum.
I wasn't prepared to see the dark side of the autistic community.
I suspect internet anonymity has had something to do with it.
"Live and learn." :cool:

Your research was heavily influenced by a Neurotypical man almost 30 years ago, prior to the DSM5.

What were your thoughts on Tony Attwood's most recent interview with a member of the other autism website, wherein she educates him about her lived experience as an autistic woman, especially pertaining to atypical behaviour and meltdowns? She and Tony have been close personal friends for years, and he had many questions for her as an esteemed, autistic colleague. It was clear that Dr Attwood is still learning about autism and refining his expertise by engaging with people who are #actuallyautistic, on a daily basis.

If you're still interested in learning or explaining what autism is, I'd recommend that you also cite current, first-hand accounts by women, trans and nonbinary people. There are many autistic people on this site and other autism sites if you have questions. Many of us write books, make videos, or maintain blogs which give an insiders' perspective about life on the spectrum.

As for "the dark side", I'm not sure what you're alluding to. Are you able to clarify what that means, exactly?
 
Last edited:
Your research was heavily influenced by a Neurotypical man almost 30 years ago, prior to the DSM5.

What were your thoughts on Tony Attwood's most recent interview with a member of the other autism website, wherein she educates him about her lived experience as an autistic woman, especially pertaining to atypical behaviour and meltdowns? She and Tony have been close personal friends for about 30 years, and he had many questions for her as an esteemed, autistic colleague. It was clear that Mr Attwood is still learning about autism and refining his expertise by engaging with people who are #actuallyautistic, on a daily basis.

If you're still interested in learning or explaining what autism is, I'd recommend that you cite current, first-hand accounts by women, trans and nonbinary people. There are many autistic people on this site and other autism sites if you have questions. Many of us write books, make videos, or maintain blogs which give an insiders' perspective about life on the spectrum.

As for "the dark side", I'm not sure what you're alluding to. Are you able to clarify what that means, exactly?
Very useful. But, for my own part, I am interested to hear the observations of everyone, including the male half of the species. Also, I am willing to admit that I can learn from early explorers; C. Columbus was wrong in big ways and still rattled the world in a positive way. So, I’ll listen to anybody of any sex from any period, who are free to quote anybody of either sex and any gender from any period. Furthermore, I believe we can all learn in this manner. To suggest otherwise just might border on bigotry or be indicative of a small mind.

It’s amazing what the inquisitive mind can do when unencumbered by bias.
 
I didn't say to ignore men's voices. The poster had mentioned Tony Attwood so I'm suggesting there are more voices than NTs and their research should be more inclusive.
 

New Threads

Top Bottom