Complaint With Modern Comics For Possibly Causing Stigma

[717]

Your thread is titled complaint with modern comics yet you are criticizing the films and say you don't know much about the comic books? The title of your thread may need tweaking.

I recall comics getting dark and violent about thirty years ago, actually. This is not anything recent.

I think this problem of the villains having mental problems is mostly a Batman problem.I mean I dont think you can find articles like this about Superman, or X-Men...

10 Batman Villains & The Real Life Mental Health Conditions They Represent

Funny enough that link agree that the Riddle represents autism.

It is so prevalent that there is not way this is accidental... it is almost as if the creators of batman designed each villain around an specific diagnosis.

That said, I have not seeing this problem with other comics... they have different approaches on character design... I guess.

This other link starts up with reminding us that Batman villains go to an asylum...

Batman's Rogues Gallery & Disorders

I mean, I can keep giving links... there are thousands of results on google...

batman villains and their mental disorders - Google Suche

 

[717]

Can you give an actual example?

I just posted with some examples...

 

[Crossbreed]

...but it seems like the films are getting more and more violent.

With extremely few exceptions, I do not go to nor stream R-rated movies. I find their R-rated elements to be distasteful. Some PG13 movies have come up to the edge, but most have been okay (by my reckoning).

 

[FayetheAspie]

Your thread is titled complaint with modern comics yet you are criticizing the films and say you don't know much about the comic books? The title of your thread may need tweaking.

I recall comics getting dark and violent about thirty years ago, actually. This is not anything recent.

Any recommendations on how to word it?

I think this problem of the villains having mental problems is mostly a Batman problem.I mean I dont think you can find articles like this about Superman, or X-Men...

10 Batman Villains & The Real Life Mental Health Conditions They Represent

Funny enough that link agree that the Riddle represents autism.

It is so prevalent that there is not way this is accidental... it is almost as if the creators of batman designed each villain around an specific diagnosis.

That said, I have not seeing this problem with other comics... they have different approaches on character design... I guess.

This other link starts up with reminding us that Batman villains go to an asylum...

Batman's Rogues Gallery & Disorders

I mean, I can keep giving links... there are thousands of results on google...

batman villains and their mental disorders - Google Suche

Yes. And it can be so frustrating. I never even watched "The Batman" movie and don't care to. The trailer convinced me of that. But I think a lot of people in society at large judge us by comparisons to these characters. It was so flustering here back watching part of "Gotham" for the first time on Tubi and seeing that shows version of Edward Nygma ( who was easily recognizable as aspergers)change towards the end of season 1- beginning of season 2. I know it would have been a major variation from the comics, but it would have been nice if he had stayed a good guy. Even if Ed had to become a villian, I don't remember Frank Gorshin's Riddler ever actually harming anyone for real so I don't see why Cory's version had to become quite so psyco.

 

[velociraptor]

The characters in The Watchmen represent half of the DSM, I'm sure (hat tip to Rorschach). We're allowing Osterman's God complex, however - it's legit.

 

[DrBadStrings]

Who here doesn't know a fellow autistic who has PTSD?
Who here has PTSD?

Yes to both. Though the PTSD in my case was a childhood vehicle accident I was in. Can't say that I was ever really bullied growing up, but certainly never had that warm welcome feeling either.

 

[Hypnalis]

Comic-style villains have to be far enough away from normal humans to be interesting, especially Batman's villains, because Batman himself isn't a simple, well-balanced character. And that lack of balance is a large part of Batman's lasting popularity.

In general villains have to lack empathy, or they'd never do anything bad enough and on a large enough scale to be worthy of the role and a cool name/title. And in many cases they have to display some or all of the outwardly dramatic behaviors of the Dark Triad to be interesting.
So many of them are going to be "within a stone's throw" of ASD.

The question, which I don't think has been fully addressed here, is whether many/most of them are perceived by the audience as ASD. One example (Riddler - a Batman villain) doesn't establish a general pattern.

IMO Narcissists (who have become much more common, perhaps (probably) surpassing ASD) and Machiavellian manipulators have significantly more to complain about than we do.

If we reverse it: I don't personally favor our being associated with the Dark Triad just because we all have an empathy deficit of some kind.

Ours is communication/understanding-biased. We care about other people. Aspies don't deliberately harm people, and we love our kids.

The Dark Triad weaponize not caring about harming other people to their own advantage. It's a big difference.

If we have a PR problem in the 21st century it's not on us or the medical profession.
The source of almost all the "Aspies are bad" implications I've ever seen (mostly "drop-ins" here, so not a lot of evidence) is identifiable (but I won't - either you can see it or you can't).

In my professional life (IT), where there are relatively many ASD and ASD-adjacent people, it's not considered a bad thing at all.

 

[FayetheAspie]

@Hypnalis It seems like where I live, people automatically assume dark triad when they recognize social awkwardness at all and also when they hear the word autism. The only other common response is to assume your don't comprehend anything, baby talk you, and hold you back from learning making your decisions ect. because they think you are incapable even if shown evidence to the contrary. Then those people seem to treat any evidence of intelligent thought that you demonstrate much like someone acts when they are pacifying a two year old who thinks their little scribblings are a great work of art.

 

[717]

Comic-style villains have to be far enough away from normal humans to be interesting, especially Batman's villains, because Batman himself isn't a simple, well-balanced character. And that lack of balance is a large part of Batman's lasting popularity.

I dont think mental health issues is the only way to create villains. There are many ways to go around this...

An obvious example is Captain Planet, each villain represents a threat to the environment.

Superman villains seem to be in a way or another corrupted versions of superman... they are powerful in their way, and sometimes in the superman way, but their morals are not right, and that is why they are the bad guys. At the end Superman is not a hero because his powers, but because his morals and the decisions he make... Must be that conservative american rural education he got from his adopted family. I understand Superman is based on German philosophy, but I have never study this any deeper.

Spiderman seems to be similar, just morally wicked villains.

Disney seems to shape the villains after the 7 sins... but that is not comics.

I try to look into Marble, but it seems like they are more interested in Anti-heroes, and villains with redeeming qualities?

 

[thejuice]

Spoiler

Corn Flakes.

Give me Weet-Bix any day of the week.

But can you eat 3?

 

[thejuice]

. Then those people seem to treat any evidence of intelligent thought that you demonstrate much like someone acts when they are pacifying a two year old who thinks their little scribblings are a great work of art.

I have the same reaction when they demonstrate some independent thinking.

 

[thejuice]

I do see how it could get up your nose if the character is obviously a tacit depiction of an autistic person, if the inference is that autism is the driver of the character's antisocial behaviour. I expect there is a lot of subjectivity in that determination. I don't watch movies much so can't really comment. There is the further complication of there being real life autistic super villains. (With all the usual disclaimers attached)

 

[Ronald Zeeman]

Is the big bang theory trope, correct, Us on the spectrum care about comics?

 

[FayetheAspie]

Is the big bang theory trope, correct, Us on the spectrum care about comics?

I'm sure not everyone, but I think it's pretty common.

 

[Ronald Zeeman]

I'm surprised stopped reading comics 50 years ago.

 

[Crossbreed]

I understand Superman is based on German philosophy, but I have never study this any deeper.

Superman was created by two Jewish [teens?]. His origin of being a lone baby in a rocket ship is modeled on Moses.

 

[Jumpinbare]

I'm surprised stopped reading comics 50 years ago.

I seem to have skipped that developmental milestone completely. I was aware of comic books, but never saw the attraction. I got more out of real books.

 

[Jonn]

PTSD is not the only condition that comes from trauma. There is also cPTSD which is from more long term continuous traumas and is basically PTSD with some extra symptoms. Then you have DPDR which is frequent episodes of depersonalization and/or derealization. There is also DID formerly known as multiple personality disorder which is the result of severe early childhood trauma.

I was psychologically ritually abused when I was around 5 at school, causing me to have a dissociative disorder.
I don't have D.I.D.

OSDD1 has the same cause as DID and is similar but lacks either the amnesia gaps and/or the alters are more like different versions of the host rather than completely differentiated identities.

I have had "amnesia gaps" related to hypnotic trance induction.
A dissociative disorder enhances hypnotic susceptibility, hence the reason for the psychological trauma.

In addition to all these Schizophrenia, Bipolar and other conditions can be triggered by trauma in individuals who have a predisposition towards these conditions.
That said, none of the above conditions are automatically indicators of psychopathic behavior and those with them are more likely to be victimized than to be the aggressor.

MKULTA focused on forcing ppl to do things they would not normally do.
There is an old digitalised documentary from the 1960's(?) which explained this nicely.
I may be able to find it again.

Clearly, most autistic and non-autistic ppl with a psychological condition are not violent.
Some are.
There is no escaping that.

The Oracle of Truth has spoken...

 

[717]

MKULTA focused on forcing ppl to do things they would not normally do.
There is an old digitalised documentary from the 1960's(?) which explained this nicely.
I may be able to find it again.

Yes please, It would be great if you can find it again.

 

[Hypnalis]

Yes please, It would be great if you can find it again.

Back then, it was believed that you might be able to make people do anything at all via something akin to "brainwashing".

In the back of their minds they were thinking super-soldiers, assassins, etc, plus e.g. making people change sides involuntarily.

The Manchurian Candidate - Wikipedia

BTW I've seen the documentary, but I don't remember much because there wasn't a lot of meaningful content.
There's a funny scene of soldiers who've been given a dose of LSD trying to perform "foot drill" a parade ground.

Luckily it turned out to be difficult to create slaves in a democracy. Sadly, you can get fairly close at a large scale.