Could use some unofficial advice with kindergartner... In need of serious help

[listening skills]

You are working so hard with him. You know him best. You also have some idea that the pressures on teachers at this school might not necessarily be to help kids with learning difficulties. Trust your instincts on this one. I would recommend getting as many people in his life as possible who have proper understanding of ABA techniques. I would find a BCBA who can find out quickly what techniques do in fact motivate him to participate in academic activities. (The school might consult with a good one -- or theirs might be a poorly trained "behaviorist" with a caseload of hundreds who does nothing for your son.) You won't figure it out yourself fast enough. The BCBA should observe in the classroom and at home and make recommendations. If the functional assessment is done properly from the beginning by the right person, ABA will work. Insurance covers BCBA's.

 

[mama_lotus]

Hi,
I'm a pre-k teacher but I have taught kindy and 1st in the past. I actually decided to stop teaching kindy because of the enormous homework packets. It just seemed ...wrong. 5 and 6 year olds shouldn't have that much academic pressure on them. My own eldest will be off to kinder in the fall and I am very nervous about turning his education over to someone else but that is obviously not what this thread is about.
I am wondering how easy it would be for you to find a charter or similar with expeditionary learning or something else that might better suit your son's learning style. I don't know your location but that would be my inclination, if it's relatively easy. I think also touring a Montessori and a Waldorf style school, if you have those nearby, would be worthwhile. My own son is diagnosed with SPD but is possibly maybe the tiniest bit Aspie and I think the only way to know what will mesh with your son's learning style is to go in and observe and chat with the teachers. My biggest goal as a preschool and kindergarten teacher is that *every* child in my class moves up a grade LOVING school. If your son doesn't love school and it feels like a chore, something needs to change, and quick. I wish you the best.

 

[rollerskate]

If your son doesn't love school and it feels like a chore, something needs to change, and quick. I wish you the best.

I couldn't agree more. And yes, the homework packets are insane! They even make ME feel stupid sometimes too because I don't even get the instructions/assignments at times. Then I wonder how on earth I can expect him to get it when his 30 year old mom has issues understanding it... Some of them just seem to defy any kind of logic.

Unfortunately it's too late. He's being held back. I meet with his school Monday. The final straw ended up being that his ADHD got terminally bad and I had difficulty getting anyone to put him on medication for it until he started flipping out and hurting people/putting himself in danger and even THEN I had to fight tooth and nail to get him admitted to an inpatient program because of his age. It took me TWO WEEKS to get him admitted anywhere, meanwhile he was attacking people, old or young didn't matter, running out into traffic, defying all attempts at authority/discipline/rules/etc, trying to tear up any room he was in, and even made a few attempts to hurt his newborn brother. He even got suspended from school... He you're up his classroom to the point they had to move his class to another room, then he tore up his principal's office...

Now he's in a place that specializes in kids with ADHD and ODD. There don't normally take kids as young as him but they made an exception in his case when they found out how serious it was. He will be coming back home once they've stabilized him on medication, and they've been able to observe the signs of trauma I keep telling clinics and therapists he has to no avail ("he seems fine and well adjusted to me " ) and are recommending trauma based therapy so I'm hoping this time the trauma therapists/clinics will take me seriously. I seriously don't know what to do about his school. They emphasize the importance of conformity so much I don't know if they're capable of understanding that sometimes when a kid breaks the rules it's not because they're being "bad". I'm afraid I played a part in all of this by pushing him too hard because the school was stressing he had to be well behaved when he came back and they said they thought I wasn't disciplining him at home. And everyone else keeps saying I'm a push over and I need to be more strict and authoritarian with him... Sigh. But I know how I was at his age and the authority thing never worked with me. You got a lot farther if you could make me understand the why and how behind things and treated me as a team member more than your underling. Because I was stubborn and independent... Like him... And you could have beaten me bloody and I'd STILL go do my own thing, sometimes just out of pure spite over someone trying to control me like that. Some folks just have to learn the hard way I suppose. My method of dealing with him though has worked for years, just not recently...

 

[Fox]

I couldn't agree more. And yes, the homework packets are insane! They even make ME feel stupid sometimes too because I don't even get the instructions/assignments at times. Then I wonder how on earth I can expect him to get it when his 30 year old mom has issues understanding it... Some of them just seem to defy any kind of logic.

Unfortunately it's too late. He's being held back. I meet with his school Monday. The final straw ended up being that his ADHD got terminally bad and I had difficulty getting anyone to put him on medication for it until he started flipping out and hurting people/putting himself in danger and even THEN I had to fight tooth and nail to get him admitted to an inpatient program because of his age. It took me TWO WEEKS to get him admitted anywhere, meanwhile he was attacking people, old or young didn't matter, running out into traffic, defying all attempts at authority/discipline/rules/etc, trying to tear up any room he was in, and even made a few attempts to hurt his newborn brother. He even got suspended from school... He you're up his classroom to the point they had to move his class to another room, then he tore up his principal's office...

Now he's in a place that specializes in kids with ADHD and ODD. There don't normally take kids as young as him but they made an exception in his case when they found out how serious it was. He will be coming back home once they've stabilized him on medication, and they've been able to observe the signs of trauma I keep telling clinics and therapists he has to no avail ("he seems fine and well adjusted to me " ) and are recommending trauma based therapy so I'm hoping this time the trauma therapists/clinics will take me seriously. I seriously don't know what to do about his school. They emphasize the importance of conformity so much I don't know if they're capable of understanding that sometimes when a kid breaks the rules it's not because they're being "bad". I'm afraid I played a part in all of this by pushing him too hard because the school was stressing he had to be well behaved when he came back and they said they thought I wasn't disciplining him at home. And everyone else keeps saying I'm a push over and I need to be more strict and authoritarian with him... Sigh. But I know how I was at his age and the authority thing never worked with me. You got a lot farther if you could make me understand the why and how behind things and treated me as a team member more than your underling. Because I was stubborn and independent... Like him... And you could have beaten me bloody and I'd STILL go do my own thing, sometimes just out of pure spite over someone trying to control me like that. Some folks just have to learn the hard way I suppose. My method of dealing with him though has worked for years, just not recently...

I'm so sorry it got to that point. I'm reading through all the back log and it sounds like you are doing everything you can. Support starts at home. You're doing a good job.

I see a LOT of faults in the school here. It seems like they have no idea how to help him and are showing total disregard for you as a parent. They seem to forget the term "mother knows best". I'm wondering if there is a specialist who can go into the school and talk with you and the teacher and the principal about his needs as a student. We know a lot more about learning styles, the neurosccapes of children with special needs, there isn't any acceptable reason I can think of that this had to happen.

I'll share here that under a large load of stress a few months back, I started to show a regression at my job. I started to significantly slow down, I forgot many tasks I needed to do and my memory turned to a pile of crud, amongst other things. Obviously this isn't the same situation and I am not your 5 year old son (but I'd be very lucky if I was) but I wanted to illustrate what an enormous effect stress has on us. It must be just as hard if not harder for him to adjust to a new school. If he wasn't making friends and the teacher wasn't being supportive or attempting to find a solution to his problems, this would only increase his stress. It could possibly be what has happened in terms of his slipping back towards illiteracy.

I'll end this here but before I do I just want to tel you what an awesome mom you are. I'm really happy to know you're not agreeing with the other adult figures around him and writing him off as "troubled" or something and trying to find answers and solutions for him. You and my own mother are very alike in that respect. She never stopped trying to find answers for why I am the way I am, not even in adulthood, and I'll always love her for it. Don't ever give up on little skate. And don't give up on yourself.

P.s. KEEP READING WITH HIM. What kind of school DISCOURAGES reading at home!?!?! A school setting kids up for failure that's who! No, don't listen to them. Your technique is not only perfect for him but doing more good than the school is at this point. Read at home every night! Especially with baby skate home now, he - and you- will get a lot of good out of the bonding.

 

[I am that which I am]

I guess part of his reaction may be that he does not like change (new school and changes in living situation) and/or the new arrival. Sibling rivalry is quite common especially if you gave him a lot of time before and now since you have a baby and are alone taking care of both you cannot give him as much time. When my son's sister was born (he was 3 however) he had a hard time adapting and had to be send to foster care since he was a danger to her. So it does happen. It is not your fault, I know you are doing the best you can. He will likely take some time to adjust however. Perhaps longer than other children. Aspies can be more sensitive and take longer to readjust.

I am sorry he is being held back. Do they have classes for people that do not have learning disabilities but have ADHD and ODD or As? He just needs a different kind of attention than they can provide elsewhere. I am glad that my son is in one of those classes, now he can still learn just as much as the other students (if not more at times) and it is more tailored to his speed and personality. So I might suggest perhaps changing him schools if they are too conformist. AS is odd he needs structure, but a bit of independence as well. I hate conformity myself. I do not think authoritarianism works with AS. My parents were like that and so were the schools. I had lots of problems at school and tore up the the principal's office as well. The school thought I had pervasive behavioural problems, but were unable to diagnose anything. I found I was least likely to get in trouble when I was given some freedom and structure under authoritaTIVE discipline which was what some teachers and a principle did. Perhaps try to explore a school that agrees more with authoritative discipline, is not conformist, and if available in your area knows how to deal with ADHD, ODD, and AS. Don't bother with the ones that tell you you are not being authoritarian enough. I know it is an unfortunate waste of time to have found a school and have to search for another. Try asking some of the other parents where you live where they send their kids.

 

[rollerskate]

I guess part of his reaction may be that he does not like change (new school and changes in living situation) and/or the new arrival. Sibling rivalry is quite common especially if you gave him a lot of time before and now since you have a baby and are alone taking care of both you cannot give him as much time. When my son's sister was born (he was 3 however) he had a hard time adapting and had to be send to foster care since he was a danger to her. So it does happen. It is not your fault, I know you are doing the best you can. He will likely take some time to adjust however. Perhaps longer than other children. Aspies can be more sensitive and take longer to readjust.

I am sorry he is being held back. Do they have classes for people that do not have learning disabilities but have ADHD and ODD or As? He just needs a different kind of attention than they can provide elsewhere. I am glad that my son is in one of those classes, now he can still learn just as much as the other students (if not more at times) and it is more tailored to his speed and personality. So I might suggest perhaps changing him schools if they are too conformist. AS is odd he needs structure, but a bit of independence as well. I hate conformity myself. I do not think authoritarianism works with AS. My parents were like that and so were the schools. I had lots of problems at school and tore up the the principal's office as well. The school thought I had pervasive behavioural problems, but were unable to diagnose anything. I found I was least likely to get in trouble when I was given some freedom and structure under authoritaTIVE discipline which was what some teachers and a principle did. Perhaps try to explore a school that agrees more with authoritative discipline, is not conformist, and if available in your area knows how to deal with ADHD, ODD, and AS. Don't bother with the ones that tell you you are not being authoritarian enough. I know it is an unfortunate waste of time to have found a school and have to search for another. Try asking some of the other parents where you live where they send their kids.

This school is weird. I thought that they would be great for him when I switched him. They appeared to be that good mix between individuality loving and rule abiding. But it's turned out to be what I call a yuppie school. They let the kids go wild, too afraid of arousing the wrath of the parents with any real discipline/structure, yet inexplicably expect the kids to excel through super sized piles of class work and homework that must be completed through all the chaos. He went to another school that piled him down in the same amount of work, but he did really well there because while they valued his individuality and tailored his learning experience to match, they also kept strict standards and structure that the kids were expected to adhere to (like the class room being still and quiet while they were working).

 

[mama_lotus]

I bet his new school will be great for him.

 

[I am that which I am]

This school is weird. I thought that they would be great for him when I switched him. They appeared to be that good mix between individuality loving and rule abiding. But it's turned out to be what I call a yuppie school. They let the kids go wild, too afraid of arousing the wrath of the parents with any real discipline/structure, yet inexplicably expect the kids to excel through super sized piles of class work and homework that must be completed through all the chaos. He went to another school that piled him down in the same amount of work, but he did really well there because while they valued his individuality and tailored his learning experience to match, they also kept strict standards and structure that the kids were expected to adhere to (like the class room being still and quiet while they were working).

Oh yeah that makes sense. I thought kids went to school to learn, not to get a pile of work to do at home. Yes the other one makes a bit more sense. It is unfortunate and I am sure quite a disappointment when you figure these things out after you already transfered him in the new school. I hope you find something that works well for him.

 

[rollerskate]

I'm lost... Transferring him to a new school?

 

[rollerskate]

I've only got two choices in schools here because they're the only ones that have us in their zones. One is two miles away and he went there for two weeks and it was HORRIBLE. That was also the point he started falling behind in reading, because this school focuses on phonics and not sight words with the phonics being more implied. He had these terrible worksheets that looked like they were from the 70s that he kept getting failed on because he either couldn't figure out what the picture was of or couldn't pin the exact word they were looking for him to write (he actually got marked wrong for writing things like "man" instead of "men" and "dug" instead of "dig"). He also had a small book every week he had to read three times every night. Yes, you got it right. THREE TIMES EVERY NIGHT... THE SAME BOOK... FOR A WEEK STRAIGHT.

So I moved him to the other school, which is a mile away. But it seems I was too late or something. Even though three use the exact same system and books for reading as the school he was previously doing very well at, he just was never able to pick it back up. Not to mention it took me a while to break the ice and get him to enjoy reading (or even attempt it) again after that stupid repetitive book reading experience.

 

[I am that which I am]

I've only got two choices in schools here because they're the only ones that have us in their zones. One is two miles away and he went there for two weeks and it was HORRIBLE. That was also the point he started falling behind in reading, because this school focuses on phonics and not sight words with the phonics being more implied. He had these terrible worksheets that looked like they were from the 70s that he kept getting failed on because he either couldn't figure out what the picture was of or couldn't pin the exact word they were looking for him to write (he actually got marked wrong for writing things like "man" instead of "men" and "dug" instead of "dig"). He also had a small book every week he had to read three times every night. Yes, you got it right. THREE TIMES EVERY NIGHT... THE SAME BOOK... FOR A WEEK STRAIGHT.

So I moved him to the other school, which is a mile away. But it seems I was too late or something. Even though three use the exact same system and books for reading as the school he was previously doing very well at, he just was never able to pick it back up. Not to mention it took me a while to break the ice and get him to enjoy reading (or even attempt it) again after that stupid repetitive book reading experience.

About transferring schools I meant more, when you moved. It is unfortunate that you only figure out that it is still not right for him and that you figure it out after you put him there. Sorry I did not know about the other schools he tried too. Those sheets do look like they are from the 70s and do not sound particularly useful. At least the school year is over or nearly for now right? I gather you do not have to worry about about that too much for now. I know you are dealing with a lot right now and this can probably wait until August or so, but they sometimes allow exceptions even if someone is outside of the zone.

 

[gonzerd]

Thought I'd chime in with a few ideas of my own, which might or might not be helpful, but I'm going to do it anyway. Ha!
It's just about the reading stuff. I can be a bit of an unteachable myself, and I think I always learned most when there was just material laying around. I learned to read before I learned it in school, basically through comics and watching lots of subtitled TV and movies. We had lots of comics in the house, things like Tin Tin and Lucky Luke (so not the American style comics, although those might work too maybe, I'm not very familiar with those), and I would go through them all the time. So there was an extra motivation to actually learn the words, because just watching the drawings would get boring after a while. And it's easy language, short sentences, common words, etc... The subtitled TV was a way to put the sound of the word to the way it looked written down and along the way I picked it up.
What am I saying here now? Yeah, just try to have things like comics around the house maybe. Could be he just ignores it, but he might also get interested and want to read, instead of having to, because that can be a big difference. And all movies or so should be subtitled. I know some find that incredibly annoying, and maybe it's not always available, but I'd say it's a great learning tool. That's it basically.

Oh yeah, and...

He also had a small book every week he had to read three times every night. Yes, you got it right. THREE TIMES EVERY NIGHT... THE SAME BOOK... FOR A WEEK STRAIGHT.

That makes me wonder what important work of literature that book is?

 

[rollerskate]

Just a note.

It's not like he isn't reading/can't read/or even hates reading. I think I said somewhere that I did get him back into reading after he got burned out on it by that one school. His problem is sight words. Those words like the, they, could, etc that tie the verbs and nouns together to make a sentence. They're boring and uninteresting so he has issues retaining them. Along with some issues I think tied directly into the severity of his ADHD and will show improvement once he's stabilized on medication.

 

[rollerskate]

The books he had to read over and over BTW were not anything of importance, just practice reading. Because the focus was on stuff like high frequency words the sentences were highly repetitive and there was no real story to follow.

Just think back to first grade and try to remember what the class material was like. That's pretty much what he's dealing with in kindergarten.

 

[gonzerd]

Yeah, I figured it wouldn't be of much help as I posted it. There's a lot more going on obviously. And maybe I should learn to read better myself

 

[rollerskate]

Yeah, I figured it wouldn't be of much help as I posted it. There's a lot more going on obviously. And maybe I should learn to read better myself

No, just a little late to the show... The way I got him interested in reading again was putting away the school books and focusing on his favorite stuff for a while, namely science and history books. I've tried comics but he loses interest quickly... Just don't tell his dad that, he still maintains delusions that his son is his mini me and should love comics as much as he does. He likes books full of scientific/historical facts and experiments though more than anything... More like mama in that respect, hehe.

 

[gonzerd]

No, just a little late to the show... The way I got him interested in reading again was putting away the school books and focusing on his favorite stuff for a while, namely science and history books. I've tried comics but he loses interest quickly... Just don't tell his dad that, he still maintains delusions that his son is his mini me and should love comics as much as he does. He likes books full of scientific/historical facts and experiments though more than anything... More like mama in that respect, hehe.

Wow, that dude of yours is way more advanced than I figured. Silly me.

 

[rollerskate]

Wow, that dude of yours is way more advanced than I figured. Silly me.

In this case a little TOO advanced for his own good. He can read words like "electricity" and "cumulonimbus" but not "the", "could", "there", etc.

I'm thinking maybe if I teach him the root words for his sight words and throw in a little etymology I might be able to spark his interest more...

Or I could try writing some material that is impossible to read without using the sight words because it is almost nothing but sight words and present it to him as a mystery with some kind of reward attached to learning the words and being able to read it, like a trip to the movies... I'm not above bribery at this point. I've been working on these words with him all year and he still needs me to read them when we read together... I'm getting sick of the majority of words he needs me to read first being those...

 

[rollerskate]

Hey another idea, I could make him teach ME how to read, LOL!

 

[rollerskate]

Update....

He's back from the psychiatric hospital and now on ADHD medication. He's like an alien. He's not zombie, but he is so calm and focused and well behaved I keep wondering if he can really possibly be the child I gave birth to. He actually making ME look bad with my own ADHD, LOL.

Still dealing with meltdowns, issues with changes and transitioning, stimming, sensory overload, etc. Only now with the ADHD out of the way, the autistic traits are way more apparent. Oddly the ADHD seemed to be driving his extroverted social behavior, because now he keeps to himself and doesn't attempt to play with other kids hardly at all.