Definition Of Depression

[Judge]

I imagine the laws and courts are just a framework within which the medical practices of that country have to operate, indeed couldn't operate without, and by their very nature are political entities.
But why would it want to transcend it?

Who do you mean by "it" ?

If the courts, our courts (and the state) always have the last word in making such decisions. On the other hand doctors occasionally try to aggressively transcend legal decisions that at times may seem etched in stone. But then their allegiance is not to the state- or the law.

But that's the case for everything, since it's the legal system that underpins the society. Also, how good a diagnosis is depends on definition

I think you're losing me a bit, I can't put that in context. Where does this suggestion come from? Maybe I've missed something in the thread.

Perhaps part of it has to do with the difference in legal systems. Particularly where the courts maintain control over medical considerations. Then again we have one happening in real time.

Would be interesting of the highest political authorities yielded to differences over medical interpretations. But that's getting way beyond a discussion of depression.

 

[Boogs]

most competent medical diagnosis cannot necessarily transcend situations involving institutions like the law and the courts.

I was quoting your previous message.

But then their allegiance is not to the state- or the law.

Why not? Sure allegiance is down to their personal motivations and feelings?

On the other hand doctors occasionally try to aggressively transcend legal decisions that at times may seem etched in stone.

But isn't this just how the law works? (at least in some places anyway)
Other professions will do the same, but we hear about the medical issues more, especially since there's often contention. But the whole reason the law allows them to do that is deliberate, it's not naughty doctors exploiting a loop hole no-one else has noticed and hence closed off.

Perhaps part of it has to do with the difference in legal systems.

Ah! This is sounding much more a cultural question then! That would explain why I'm struggling to understand where you're coming from and going to with this.

And of course diagnosis is cultural as well as the legal system, so we'll have different views from different places.
And of course the laws and their frameworks are different too, even if similar in appearance.

But in terms of medical 'interference' in court cases (if I understood you correctly), the law is a blunt instrument and by it's nature it pulls in the innocent along with the guilty in it's processes, and fairness is far from established as it's founding principle, that's control and regulation which are necessary to have a society and to be able to build upon it.

So some legal systems have this ability to argue a case on grounds not otherwise originally considered, as one of it's checks and balances.
There are plenty people unfairly prosecuted and punished, sometimes simply because those who made the laws and the system they run on were unaware of many things related to the human condition.

 

[blitzkrieg]

That resonates. But I wonder if it counts as depression (medically) simply to be depressed? Especially if it's got practical foundation rather than pathological?

Depression that has an identified cause or 'foundation' is in psychiatry, labelled 'exogenous depression' and is sometimes known as 'situational depression'.

 

[Boogs]

Depression that has an identified cause or 'foundation' is in psychiatry, labelled 'exogenous depression' and is sometimes known as 'situational depression'.

Presume that refers to a non organic cause? As that's a normal part and parcel of human behaviours, what criteria is used to define as depression rather simply being depressed?

 

[Judge]

Ah! This is sounding much more a cultural question then! That would explain why I'm struggling to understand where you're coming from and going to with this.

Agreed, most likely given your responses. But that's ok. After all, sometimes that's a rather large ocean between us often referred to as "the pond".

 

[Boogs]

Agreed, most likely given your responses. But that's ok. After all, sometimes that's a rather large ocean between us often referred to as "the pond".

It can be rather confusing, as so many things are so alike, if not identical, but then here and there are little differences in definitions, often unspoken, words used for similar purpose but having different meaning or strength of meaning, that can make a big difference to understanding correctly. The word 'democracy' for example, has many meanings and nuances and usually our own is the 'correct' one (even the only definition), and great arguments can come from that because each side believes the other is using the same definition. A part of the human condition it seems?

 

[Boogs]

This sort of effects me a lot so has a personal importance. I can only really communicate in any understandable manner (or I like to think it's intelligible! ) in terms of actually carrying across something at least close to the meaning I intended, by having very strict definitions of the words I use. Unfortunately this doesn't really mesh with normal communications so well. The harder I try to be precise and accurate, the more it's misread, usually as emotional content (where there's none been put in there).

 

[Judge]

Unfortunately this doesn't really mesh with normal communications so well. The harder I try to be precise and accurate, the more it's misread, usually as emotional content (where there's none been put in there).

"Been there, done that, got the t-shirt."

 

[Boogs]

"Been there, done that, got the t-shirt."

It'd be completely hilarious, except it isn't at all!
(or only much much later! when the sting has gone)

 

[Misty Avich]

For me depression can be like feeling I'm in a very gloomy world with nothing but fog and dead trees, and there's nobody else around. So very isolating and restrictive and I can't get out. But I can see into the next world, where everybody's together, laughing and joking, and surrounded by green grass, sunshine and beautiful animals, insects and singing birds - while I'm stuck in this lonely, isolating place by myself. I'm not always in that place though, just when I get a bout of that socially isolated sort of depression, which I hate.

 

[Boogs]

How strange, all that intense imagery evoked by the feelings. I honestly don't know if it would be better to have that.
I can understand the meaning, and extract something of the feeling of what you wrote, but it's like extracting a thread from a tangled bundle, rather than the bundle itself evoking the meaning, for me.

 

[Jonn]

For me depression can be like feeling I'm in a very gloomy world with nothing but fog and dead trees, and there's nobody else around. So very isolating and restrictive and I can't get out. But I can see into the next world, where everybody's together, laughing and joking, and surrounded by green grass, sunshine and beautiful animals, insects and singing birds - while I'm stuck in this lonely, isolating place by myself. I'm not always in that place though, just when I get a bout of that socially isolated sort of depression, which I hate.

Poignant description.
What you have said sounds like a type of dissociation.

I get twinges of discomfort every now and then, when I feel disconnected with the world around me, but it never lasts long.

 

[Jonn]

This sort of effects me a lot so has a personal importance. I can only really communicate in any understandable manner (or I like to think it's intelligible! ) in terms of actually carrying across something at least close to the meaning I intended, by having very strict definitions of the words I use.

I'm the same.
This used to be a feature of the "traditional" aspie.
"Little Professors."

I constantly check definitions while I create posts, part of the reason there are so many typos in my posts.
Added. "a"s, "the"s, etc.

It's quite an exhaustive process, but it is what it is.

Unfortunately this doesn't really mesh with normal communications so well. The harder I try to be precise and accurate, the more it's misread, usually as emotional content (where there's none been put in there).

Context: Forum communication.

I find it difficult not to add more qualifiers.
And when I have, there really is a need to add another 50% worth, imo.
Like I said, exhausting.

At some point along the way, I just give up and hope for the best.
And guess what?
Loads of misunderstandings due to context confusion, even so.

C'est la vie.

 

[Jonn]

Depression that has an identified cause or 'foundation' is in psychiatry, labelled 'exogenous depression' and is sometimes known as 'situational depression'.

Would this include depression due to anger directed internally?

 

[Aspie_With_Attitude]

To understand the definition of "DEPRESSION", I have it all explained in the video upload that I did just over 3 years ago.

 

[Boogs]

It's quite an exhaustive process, but it is what it is.

I found it also holds in itself the seeds of it's destruction, in that the more context added to ensure understanding, the more the reader would skip over much of the message and try to take meaning from the last part (or some equally awful behaviour) because it was simply too long for their patience.
I've had complaints at work in the past that my emails are too long. This was was before I contracted autism (diagnosed) and it used to confuse the living daylights outta me. I couldn't understand how else I was supposed to pass on technical information in an unambiguous accurate manner. Now of course I know they were far more concerned about having an easy life over doing a proper job!

 

[Misty Avich]

Poignant description.
What you have said sounds like a type of dissociation.

I get twinges of discomfort every now and then, when I feel disconnected with the world around me, but it never lasts long.

Depression can make a person dissociate, although I could still continue on with going to work and stuff. Interaction with other people does bring me out of that awful place, to be honest. It's like they pull me back into their world, which is a much happier place.

I hate depression. It's usually connected with feelings of anger and self-loathing and social isolation. Anxiety is a little different. It can be helped by confiding in people and getting answers or reassurance. Depression is more like an isolating and even frightening place to be.

Depression is interesting though. It's more or less the only emotion that can be connected to fear, and I don't mean anxiety fear. Depression fear is like the creepy kind of fear, as in spooky, in the uncanny valley. So interesting.
Anxiety fear is more like being scared of illness or homelessness, stuff like that, which isn't creepy. It's just scary in a different way.

 

[Jonn]

I hate depression. It's usually connected with feelings of anger and self-loathing and social isolation.

Many think that.
Freud talked about this construct, and it seems to be applicable even today.

Psychoanalysts have long known that when anger is repressed and turned inward, it turns into depression. People who have this tendency find themselves feeling sad and down about everything when actually they are angry about something specific.

5 Symptoms of Repressed Anger

 

[Jonn]

I found it also holds in itself the seeds of it's destruction,

And you should know, Dr Strangelove.

in that the more context added to ensure understanding, the more the reader would skip over much of the message and try to take meaning from the last part (or some equally awful behaviour) because it was simply too long for their patience.

I am in that category.
TL;DR is my catchphrase, usually, but not always.
Dyslexia, Executive Dysfunction, and ADHD doesn't help.

I've had complaints at work in the past that my emails are too long. This was was before I contracted autism (diagnosed) and it used to confuse the living daylights outta me. I couldn't understand how else I was supposed to pass on technical information in an unambiguous accurate manner. Now of course I know they were far more concerned about having an easy life over doing a proper job!

Occam's Razor overlooked, perhaps? <j>

So, did you eventually tone it down?

Spoiler

Or did you put them into a state of repressed anger, causing them depression?

Spoiler

"Did you see what I did there?"

 

[Boogs]

And you should know, Dr Strangelove.

But of course! The macrocosm reflects the microcosm, etc etc!

TL;DR is my catchphrase, usually, but not always.

Well for me, anyone here only has to look at 90% of my posts to realise I'll use twenty words where two would do!
Though occasionally I'll switch from teeth grindingly literal, to obscurely abstract, or chuck out a one-liner.
Worse of all, try to be funny!

So, did you eventually tone it down?

What do you think, it being me?
Of course I didn't! I just made them longer by adding apologies for them being too long!