Depression - Just Snap Out of It

[Aalo]

I've read from many sources, that according to evolutionary theory humans' genetic imperatives tend to seek to maximize reproduction, not happiness. So as a result, sexual productivity being in the greatest developmental pressure, the extent of human happiness is biologically limited. Whether you don't believe that evolution took place, it still is an interesting though that should be taken into an account in these discussions as genetic variation even between three generations can be vast.
It is in my belief, that the biggest part of tendency to bad depression is caused by innormal brain functions. I hardly get annoyed by things others do or say as long as I can be somehow calm with my thoughts. But that really doesn't mean I wouldn't get depressed, and when I get, it's solely "my own fault". It's about my brains not being able to function right, and there's no snapping out of that, no good way to rationalize it isn't happening. Of course one can learn to cope with this morbid condition or alter it with meds, but it can come back and might not ever go away.

It's sad to realize how many are going through this.
I don't get these "go out and talk to people" hints depressive people get. As it wouldn't be hard enough for typical as, not even NTs can just go out and bother anyone they respect with their problems that they either think are so deep there's no help or that they're so deep none could react anyhow on them. I've found that making goals is not a way for me, because if, as I usually don't, reach them, and would end up feeling even worse sack than before. Trying to deny depression and bluffing it with minor happy thoughts won't make it go away. Instead listening how it makes you body feel, and slowly realizing it can't do much else. Hence it can't boss you around that much.

 

[Undiagnosed]

I find that help is usually not what I need. No one yet has been able to give me the help I need. I just give up.

I find that help is usually not what I need. No one yet has been able to give me the help I need. I just give up.

I have dealt with depression all my life. Although I didn't know what it was yet, by the time of my earliest memories I was already sad, empty , and would hardley ever talk. The way it was explained to me that made the most sence was that some people don't have the ability to remake enough of the 'feel good' brain chemicals that are depleated in certain stressfull times. Those people such as me and many of you here on this thread are those porne to deprression.
I have been sucicidal and after surviveing that time decided that I would never kill myself. At the time my first son was a baby and I so badley wanted to leave this world but would not leave him in such a situation to live with in his life ahead and so I wanted to take him with me where I knew he would be safe and happy. I contimplaited ways to make it happen but could never figure out a way to guarantee he and I would both go together. I could not bear the thought that something would fail and I would go and he would be leaft or vise versa. That has been twenty three years ago and my dicision stands I will live on this earth untill a higher power deems it time for me to move on to the next becouse I can not leave my kids with that to bear the rest of their lives. So whenever I feel like I don't want to live I know I will just hold on untill that feeling passes becouse the decision has already been made in my mind many years ago that I will not take my life.

As you can imagion I spent many years not seeking help and not talking to anyone about depression due to not knowing what depression was and not knowing what was normal. I am 44 years old now and so that is a 44 year journey learning what my feeling were about , what depression is, what to do and how to deal/ heal. I tried and experienced a lot of things . During a time when I studied to be a massage therapist I was introduced to natural healing and spent over three years studying and experimenting with many natural remedies as well.

I never did get much help our of any therapy for anything but there was one thing a therapist said to me that I have used ever since. She sugestied that I imbrace the depression days. Whenever I know it's going to be a bad day or time in terms of depression I hold on ready to 'ride the wave' untill it passes. I know now that the bad thoughts and feelings are due to the depression. Everything can seem and feel terable, bad, and hopeless due to depression. Now after seeing it happen time and time again over the years I know that almost nothing is really bad or good. It's all what our minds make it out to be. I can see a situation as terrable and hopeess on one day and then see the hope and joy in the same situation on a better day. So now when I have the bad feelings that something is hopeless I try ti take it with a grain of salt knowing that it's not so much the reality of the situation that's bad but the depression twistes up the thoughts to make them seem and feel bad.

Here is one thing that has made the most change in me amoungst everything I have done tried and experienced over the years. welcome to CHANGE NOW . This is a hypnosis CD I use. The particular session is called Eliminate Sadness. I don't know if you beleive in hypnosis or not but I beleive everything starrts in our mind. Hypnosis is a way of changeing/reprogarameing our mind. I have used, studied, and experimented with hypnosis over several years and find that it dose work. My depression is different than when I was younger and I would say this session has the most to do with it. I no longer experience the deep, painfull periods I had in the past. I no long experience uncontrolable cyting spells. I do still have the 'bla' days , the acks and such, the sadness and negativity at times, but nothing like the unbearabel emational pain I experiences in the past. If you do try this session try it over and over again. It may take repeated sessions to help and it may take several sessions before you realy get into a 'hypnotic state' especially if you don't know what that feels like yet.

Another 'natural' thing I like is Barley grass powder.

Something else I happened upon by mistake that I found made a big impact was "the raindrop tequnique" useing essintioal oils. I have a story for that if you want details . It is expensive thought. I havn't used it in a long time for that reason. Otherwise I would keep it on hand all the time.

I have also used exersice, natural sun light bulbs, nutrition, juiceing, various herbs and supliments, various meds, .... u name it.

 

[livinggreen]

I really feel for everyone on this thread and appreciate all the openness. I didn't know about AS until I was in my late 30s and before I knew about AS a therapist found me to be depressed and convinced me to go on medication. I was depressed, but not regularly clinically depressed and I never should have taken meds - I never will again. I was going through a bad end of a marriage and then a divorce and I was depressed that I would not spend 100% of my kids' time with them until they go to college. This seems something that it is ok to be depressed about.

When I learned more about AS, I learned that I have always battled more short-term depression that could be brought on by someone just saying something that I considered wrong or hurtful to me. When people told me over the years to "snap out of it" (I have heard it many times from girlfriends), it exacerbated my depression and the continued hounding on me to get out of it would make it last longer and longer. Any discussion about why I looked "sad" or couldn't relate or stop looking at the tv would just make me take longer to get out of it.

I still can't get a grip on this short-term depression and it plays a role in my current relationship although I am much farther along than I was in the past. I have ALWAYS been told that I don't look happy, even when I am happy inside - it drives me nuts because when someone says that to me, it just makes that emotion react more and I look more objectively sad or unhappy to the outside world while I am angry inside. I have tried St. John's Wort with some mild success, but I really don't like to take anything. I agree that some of the easiest things can help depression from AS - exercise, a walk in the park (an uncrowded one), laughter. I find that if my partner can make me laugh or bring up something that is always funny, I can get out of my funk much, much quicker.

 

[King_Oni]

Heh... I can identify with things you say Livinggreen. Especially the part where you state that you've been put on meds but actually the things you were depressed about are in fact things anyone would get depressed about.

I don't see myself as clinically depressed. I feel quite alright now and have for a big part of life. It's mostly circumstances that make me feel horrible. I sometimes feel there needs to be a serious check-up from therapists to see if your situation isn't in fact, the problem.

Reminds me of a quote I once read "Before you diagnose yourself with depression or low self-esteem, first make sure that you are not, in fact, just surrounded by assholes".. which holds true in the sense that way to often depression is being seen as a clinical thing rather than feeling blue due to bad circumstance.

 

[livinggreen]

So true King_Oni! Meds for depression can be dangerous and they scared me when I stopped taking them abruptly and my body and mind experienced some crazy things - shakes, graphic nightmares and I slept a ton. If things that are supposed to help level me out cause me to suffer delirium tremens, I don't think I want them in my body. Why can't therapists just understand that life circumstances often dictate our level of depression. When my mom died when I was 20, I was depressed - I should have been, I didn't need meds because I needed to feel that.

I never believed I was clinically depressed and I still don't. AS has helped me understand that these bursts of depression often come from oversensitivity and uncomfortableness and that it's ok. But, I really work on figuring out the best ways to "snap out of it" without someone EVER saying that to me. And as you quoted, sometimes you are just surrounded by assholes and that, in and of itself, should be depressing!

 

[_Josh_]

That's one of the reasons I never sought any professional help. I always figured they'd just put me on the latest med that they wanted to test out. Side effects tend to arguably be worse than the actual symptom they're meant to treat. Although my extreme anxiety in interacting with strangers face to face or voice to voice always averted me from seeking help too. I'm pretty certain my worst bout I experienced in my early adult life was "clinical" but I've always been very strong at just holding out with the hope, and actually the certainty that I'll get better eventually. As the saying goes, time heals all wounds. I do recognize though that time doesn't heal mental illness which can cause/exaccerbate the underlying issues that lead to depression, which is why I'm finally seeking out a better understanding of what's going on with myself and also seeking some professional help from those dreaded doctors I've always been inherently skeptical of. (Haven't been to any doctor since I was 16. I'm 29 and that was my family doctor for bad colds and such.) We'll see how that goes. I still have a fear though that they'll just want to do the ole, take two, see me next week/month or whatever.

 

[Aalo]

When my mom died when I was 20, I was depressed - I should have been, I didn't need meds because I needed to feel that.

That's exactly how I felt after loosing my mother few ears older that you did. I got onto a sick leave, took doctors prescription and even bought those meds so I wouldn't got into trouble. I really needed that physician to extend my leave and didn't feel like risking that. But I didn't eat any one of those SSRIs. I bet eating them would have made me feel nothing and by that prolonged processing the grief. It's vital to get master of sad thoughts like these and hiding behind numbness doesn't really help. So I got over the worst in few months. Later on I've felt bad that I actually paid for them to support drug industry, but at least that's not a common thing for me.

Eating magnesium and B12 and B6 has been great help for me. People don't seem to get nearly as much vitamins and trace elements from food nowadays, as body would need. Even that we look physically ok. Bright light lamp was mentioned here before. Unfortunately I feel it's mostly messing up my sleep cycles. And messed up sleep cycles might be the biggest reason for me to fail in my everyday life as I can't go to uni or work tired, and that messes not only one, but also several following days. I still have a long way on learning to read my signs getting to prepared my evening angsts, that I tend to get when it gets dark outside never mind I have house full of lights. Otherwise I wouldn't be that wretched about "never archiving anything" or just for "being useless tool" as I can see my purpose separate from some usual schemata.

 

[Undiagnosed]

Livinggreen...I have always been told I look sad or even more of the time mad. I have been told I give someone a 'dirty look'. When people say these things to me I am clueless. I had no idea I was looking sad, mad, or like I was giveing a 'dirty look'. When that happens I feel bad like I am being once again misunderstood, like I have given the wrong impression, and like I have offended someone accedentley.

 

[livinggreen]

I hear you on that Undiagnosed. When people (mostly in relationships) are having an uncomfortable conversation with me or criticizing me (even constructively), I tend to avert my eyes and stare at something. That stare becomes a "sad" look to others when I am just trying to stay focused and not get riled up about the conversation. I always feel that my outward facial appearance is not a direct indication of what I am feeling inside and I have repeatedly been misunderstood for being monotone or non-reactive in situations as well. The truth is sometimes I am sad inside, but I am trying so hard to not look sad and feel like I am doing a good job - then when someone bring it up, it is kind of crushing because I was trying to keep it to myself.

 

[NeverEnder]

I suffer from depression, anxiety and Aspergers.

These combined have a deep effect on my mind and my life.

I have been in a steady depression now for 3-years and am simply growing used to it. Although I have a Psychiatrist and a therapist (and am on anti-depressants) nothing seems to really help me get out of this state.

It is like being trapped in a cage - I can see out (somewhat) but cannot escape. I at times have suicidal ideation because I just cannot take this life anymore. At times I feel completely hopeless.

My life continues, though, and I just hope and pray that I get better with the depression and anxiety.

 

[wyverary]

Many interesting points raised in this thread.

On the topic of meds--I feel it is a complicated and nuanced subject. Antidepressants are no sort of panacea, to be sure, and I don't know of any doctor who has claimed that they are. They are overprescribed. They are dangerous. With their being on the market longer, and studied longer, they don't appear to be as effective as once believed. I myself had terrible, terrifying reactions to SSRIs. That said, I am on other psychiatric meds--a mood stabilizer and an antipsychotic--and I am unbelievably grateful for them. No, they don't "cure" the problem; they are not a "complete" treatment; but they take the edge off the symptoms just enough, improve my emotional being just enough, that I can figure the rest of it out on my own. This is NOT to say that all depression patients should take meds, or even most of them; I'm simply pointing out the rationale behind psych meds, however much it may get buried or downright ignored by overworked psychiatrists who have almost no time to spend with the patients and a stack of prescription pads that hey, they're there so they may as well use them.

Re: dragon tooth's musings. I'm throwing political correctness to the four winds and completely agreeing that sometimes, depression just doesn't go away. You can attend all the therapy you want, swallow all the pills anyone throws in your direction, but it's just there, constantly, sometimes receding a bit for a few weeks or months or a year, but it always comes back. It's miserable. I am in that situation myself. Even when I'm feeling "better," at the back of my mind is always the knowledge that it will come back, and that, maybe, this time, it will be the last straw. Only someone who's been through it can truly understand--and unfortunately, those people aren't usually doctors or therapists. We let people with terminal illnesses sign DNR's, but, perhaps because we still have such a long way to go when it comes to awareness and acceptance of mental illness, we depressives don't get that same mercy. And people say that SUICIDE is the "selfish choice"! LET ME BE CLEAR: I'm not saying that one should not exhaust all their options, but when there's nothing else to do, why keep living in such absolute, debilitating misery?

As to the suggestion of "natural" therapies...As always, the idea of such treatment makes me very uneasy, when there is so little evidence that it actually works beyond placebo effect. With things such as depression, of course, such an effect may be powerful. By all means, give it a try--you have nothing to lose, and if it works, then all the better! But I wouldn't recommend pursuing it at the expense of trying other options as well.

Anyway, just my two cents. Or, perhaps in this case, my dime.

 

[epath13]

I don't know why I'm posting this but still I think you have to have genetic predisposition to depression. My life hasn't been all unicorns and rainbows but I've never been depressed. I have been stressed out. I've tried really hard to get really out of control but couldn't go too far there were some moments when I thought I couldn't find a way out and the only thing I could do is to sink into depression but I couldn't. That silver lining seemed to stare at me no matter what. And, at this point, I do believe, it must be genetic well, thanks goodness for the genes, otherwise I would probably be dead already or ,at least, really miserable previously I might have thought I've been depressed but being depressed for 5 minutes and then having fun again doesn't make sense, no, now I'm sure I definitely haven't.

 

[fjord]

I've had many bouts of depression and pretty much non-stop anxiety - in fact, you really can have both at the same time. You know those cliches that say it's about your attitude and not your circumstances? I understand what they mean, and it can be true to some extent. But something I think that would help even more is to be able to acknowledge that one's circumstances stink. And know that people agree with you and understand. Then find out ways to deal with it. It seems people just want you to pretend you're fine. Just be happy! Cheer up! Ignoring the root of the problem is a bad way to deal with it, in my opinion.

But there is the problem of knowing that, no matter what, I will never really belong in this world. That can be fairly depressing, because that will never change. Maybe coming to peace with that - somehow - is the next step.

 

[King_Oni]

Reading the recent posts in this thread got me thinking about something else;

Not everyone experiences depression in the same way. The feelings and causes that cause someone to feel depressed will most likely differ for each person and how they cope with said feelings. Some might process my experience of a severe depression really lightly and vice versa. That might have to do with genetics, neurology, and just the general way your brain processes things based on prior experiences.

This also could mean that some depression isn't really cured that easy and in fact is a product of circumstance (amongst other things).

As stated earlier in this thread, yes... I do believe that acknowledging the problem and looking at the root is way more important than taking a temporary fix and hope it'll even itself out in the long run.

 

[Dragon's Tooth]

I've read from many sources, that according to evolutionary theory humans' genetic imperatives tend to seek to maximize reproduction, not happiness. So as a result, sexual productivity being in the greatest developmental pressure, the extent of human happiness is biologically limited. Whether you don't believe that evolution took place, it still is an interesting though that should be taken into an account in these discussions as genetic variation even between three generations can be vast.
It is in my belief, that the biggest part of tendency to bad depression is caused by innormal brain functions. I hardly get annoyed by things others do or say as long as I can be somehow calm with my thoughts. But that really doesn't mean I wouldn't get depressed, and when I get, it's solely "my own fault". It's about my brains not being able to function right, and there's no snapping out of that, no good way to rationalize it isn't happening. Of course one can learn to cope with this morbid condition or alter it with meds, but it can come back and might not ever go away.

It's sad to realize how many are going through this.
I don't get these "go out and talk to people" hints depressive people get. As it wouldn't be hard enough for typical as, not even NTs can just go out and bother anyone they respect with their problems that they either think are so deep there's no help or that they're so deep none could react anyhow on them. I've found that making goals is not a way for me, because if, as I usually don't, reach them, and would end up feeling even worse sack than before. Trying to deny depression and bluffing it with minor happy thoughts won't make it go away. Instead listening how it makes you body feel, and slowly realizing it can't do much else. Hence it can't boss you around that much.

I like what you say about evolution. I actually believe our modern society causes it because we have taken away that drive to survive. You don't have to worry about feeding yourself through the winter or making sure you have fire wood or what ever. The battle to survive in the past would have crowded out the negative thoughts. Now that you just have to go to the supermarket to get your food and heat is a click of a switch away we are left with this void we have to somehow fill. And our brains go ... "hello what have we here in the darkest corners of your mind." I find that when I work I have less depressive episodes if things go well because I have something to concentrate on. But when I have heaps of spare time ... well the brain wanders off and goes exploring ...

 

[livinggreen]

But there is the problem of knowing that, no matter what, I will never really belong in this world. That can be fairly depressing, because that will never change. Maybe coming to peace with that - somehow - is the next step.

fjord, I do think circumstances are the main component to depression and acknowledging that you are in a bad spot is a good thing. If everything is going poorly, it is annoying when people tell you to look at the bright side. Yes, there is always something good to say, but it doesn't always feel good. When you lose a parent, yes, you have another one and some people don't have any, but still - you lost a parent. I am with you on this.

But, the quote above I think is overly pessimistic. I do think that everyone can find a place where they belong in this world, but for some of us it is just a little harder and the journey to find this belonging is a tough and frustrating one. These forums themselves should show everyone who seeks them out that there are others in the same predicament and even though we communicate over the Internet in this case, there should be a sense of belonging here.

 

[fjord]

I find that when I work I have less depressive episodes if things go well because I have something to concentrate on. But when I have heaps of spare time ... well the brain wanders off and goes exploring ...

I find this to be true, too, for two reasons. Number one: the ability to focus the mind (which is also what special interests do). Number two: knowing I've accomplished something useful helps lift the mood.

 

[fjord]

But, the quote above I think is overly pessimistic. I do think that everyone can find a place where they belong in this world, but for some of us it is just a little harder and the journey to find this belonging is a tough and frustrating one. These forums themselves should show everyone who seeks them out that there are others in the same predicament and even though we communicate over the Internet in this case, there should be a sense of belonging here.

Maybe you're right...It's really nice to know "intellectually" that others are like me (online). In real life, I never feel like I "belong". Getting the official diagnosis has shaken me up a bit. Even though I wanted it because it made so much sense, now there's no denying it's real and permanent.

 

[livinggreen]

I missed that part by Dragon's Tooth and I totally agree. When I have too much free time, I can't focus because I don't know where to start the myriad of things I have to do or should do or really don't need to do, but want to do. I tend to obsess over my relationships when I have too much time and create scenarios in my head that don't really exist because I spend too much time dissecting nothing. The thing is though, once I get started doing one thing and it goes well, I can keep going and the day seems great and my feelings of depressions seem to fade away easier.

fjord, I think finding the online forum is a start. It's just an indication that there are people in the real world experiencing all these things and who understand them. They may not be around the corner and they may be hard to find, but use it as a bridge to find those in the real world. Don't be shaken up, embrace it to the best of your abilities and talk about it here. It has been helping me a lot to finally find people who get it.

 

[_Josh_]

I like what you say about evolution. I actually believe our modern society causes it because we have taken away that drive to survive. You don't have to worry about feeding yourself through the winter or making sure you have fire wood or what ever. The battle to survive in the past would have crowded out the negative thoughts. Now that you just have to go to the supermarket to get your food and heat is a click of a switch away we are left with this void we have to somehow fill. And our brains go ... "hello what have we here in the darkest corners of your mind." I find that when I work I have less depressive episodes if things go well because I have something to concentrate on. But when I have heaps of spare time ... well the brain wanders off and goes exploring ...

This makes a whole lot of sense to me personally. I don't get depressed nearly as much as I used to back when I lived in the inner city. I never got outside to do anything except in the fall and winter when I would go camping. I would sit in my room with never anything to do but play the same old video games, I had very few books relative to what I have today, and would get so bored and just brood and get so down. These days, I live in the country, we heat our home with a woodstove because there is no natural gas lines and electric heat pumps are piss poor at heating when you truly need heat. I chop wood all winter and am constantly stoking the stove. During the spring, summer, and early fall I grow and maintain a garden which provides food, although not all of the food we need of course, but is a very good sense of accomplishment and a meaning to hard work, not to mention all of the yard work I have to keep up with (8 acres of land with a fence around it that needs to be weed-eated, mowing with riding lawnmower and a tractor.) I have 2 ponds which I fish in often. I have things to do that have meaning now. As I said in my previous posts in this thread, I get depressed when I get bored.