Difficulty recognising a friend as a friend

[inabox]

This has been on my mind a lot lately.
I moved house very far from where I used to live so I knew nobody. This was not a problem or scary. I'm now confused though because everyone round here is being so nice, and popping round to visit and helping me with things but I'm not used to that so I don't know how to interpret it. Where I used to live I felt like I was different wherever I went and out of place all the time because people treated me different (they classed me as weird, I did not appear "normal", which they thought I should) . But now the people I meet don't treat me different, so im guessing thats why i don't feel different. I've spoken to people who've said how I've made lots of friends. So I think to myself, have I ?
Does any other Aspie experience the same about not noticing when someone is a "friend"?
I know I've had friends in the past but this has been obvious it would have been hard to miss. Either they do things that only a friend would do, nice things like they go out of their way to be nice and I've been around them for a long time without any indication they don't like me, or they make some reference to me and them being friends. Unless these things happen I class them as just someone I know. It has to be quite explicit for me to get it. I also don't want them to think that I'm thinking they're my friend if that was never their intention so I do not assume.
So is anyone in the same position as me and does anyone have any tips to recognise who is a friend? (I could just ask them but I don't want to have to ask them as they might feel I'm expecting a certain answer from them)

 

[ExplosiveTMT]

I have been there many times.

 

[STR]

I'm exactly the same way. With the exception of a few "obvious" friends that I've had in the past, I have no clue whether my acquaintances are considered "friends" or not. I will probably start a post of my own to discuss this issue in more detail at some point, but I have an acquaintance that I have known from 5+ years that I considered to have reached the level of "friend", only to have her tell me 6 months ago that she did not consider us to be friends. I never like to be presumptuous in thinking that another person likes me well enough to be my friend, but this person had given me so many positive "signals" that I was willing to believe we were friends.

I was hurt by what she said...

 

[Grumpy Cat]

I'm exactly the same way. With the exception of a few "obvious" friends that I've had in the past, I have no clue whether my acquaintances are considered "friends" or not. I will probably start a post of my own to discuss this issue in more detail at some point, but I have an acquaintance that I have known from 5+ years that I considered to have reached the level of "friend", only to have her tell me 6 months ago that she did not consider us to be friends. I never like to be presumptuous in thinking that another person likes me well enough to be my friend, but this person had given me so many positive "signals" that I was willing to believe we were friends.

I was hurt by what she said...

Is your friend NT? And what signals?

 

[Nadador]

I find there are different levels of friendship, a variety of opinions on what those levels are, and differing views on when an acquaintance becomes an actual "friend". Based entirely on what little you've shared, it seems as though what you've got there are friendly acquaintances, with perhaps some potential for friendship.

In my own experience, a person is interested in friendship when they are willing to make a plan to see me, or for me to see them, and when they start to share more personal information and opinions, showing me a bit of who they are inside. Someone who is interested in me as a friend tends to ask me questions about myself that go beyond basic small talk, to explore who I am as well. Someone who is doing something specific with me, but then stays longer just to talk, gives me another clue that they are interested in a possible friendship. Of course some people are just nosey, and don't know when to leave. But a potential friend feels different than that. The balance of talking and listening tends to be more even. Their questions and answers tend to be more thoughtful.

There are also different kinds of friends. Some will never go very deep, and may be based on shared interests. Others may become much more intimate, based around talking at depth about personal things.

The more time you spend with a person who shows interest in being around you, the more the friendship can solidify, and become more apparent. Most of my true friendships took a while to develop. It's rare that I meet someone with whom I can jump right in and call them a "friend". I would expect most other people, Aspie and NT, would say the same.

I hope this helps a bit.

 

[The Penguin]

It took me many years to figure out what is a friend? I learned when I meet someone new the start of a conversation can be good. But as time progresses, it took me a while to learn most of the time, the person realized they don't want to be my friend, or they might talk to me due to pity. So I worked out my own new system and it works very well for me. As my own disclaimer, just because a method I'm using working for me, might not mean it will work for you or something else.

When I speak to someone new, I have my own measurement tools. First, I detect their tone of voice. If I meet someone in writing form such as online, then I measure how they write to me to judge what their tone of voice is like just like there were speaking verbally. From this, it helps me to understand if this person is enjoying the conversation with me, or are they just saying stuff just to talk but no real interest.

Another thing I do is I measure how much they talk to me compare to their other friends. If they talk to me very rarely, but they talk to their other friends more than me, then I figure I'm not important to that person and I stop talking to them. 80% of the time they normally don't talk to me again. The remaining 20%, there might be a case I still talk to the person, but it will vary on many variable. To keep it simple, it's based on my gut feeling.

If I am learning each time I speak to someone, I am the person always have to message first, I will normally stop messaging the person. When that happens and no communication after this point, the friendship is over. But if they do attempt to message me first some point in the future, the friendship might carry on depending on the scenario.

Their other systems I have in place, but it would take me forever to explain them all. But what I recommend for anyone is making your own system to measure a friendship. It might take a while to find a system works for you. But once you find one that works, stick to it.

 

[STR]

Is your friend NT? And what signals?

Yes, she's NT. We live in the same building, and have had lots of long conversations in the hallway. We have also met for lunch/coffee multiple times over the years. Our conversations seem to be very stimulating for both of us, as we are both engaged and can talk for long periods of time without running out of things to talk about. (That is rare for me). We don't engage in small talk, but rather dive into deep issues and relatively personal things about our lives. (Nothing inappropriate, but seemingly well beyond what mere acquaintances would discuss). My wife (who is NT and very perceptive) has always thought that this other person liked me, and was shocked to hear that the other person did not consider me to be a friend.

On a related note to what Penguin said, this other person virtually never contacts me, and I have always been the one to contact her. I stopped contacting her earlier this year after she told me we weren't friends. But when I run into her randomly around our building, she almost always suggests that we get together for lunch/coffee to "catch up".

I'm always left to wonder: if we are going to meet and have deep conversations, why wouldn't we then be considered "friends"? And if we aren't considered "friends", why are we bothering to meet in the first place?

 

[Grumpy Cat]

Yes, she's NT. We live in the same building, and have had lots of long conversations in the hallway. We have also met for lunch/coffee multiple times over the years. Our conversations seem to be very stimulating for both of us, as we are both engaged and can talk for long periods of time without running out of things to talk about. (That is rare for me). We don't engage in small talk, but rather dive into deep issues and relatively personal things about our lives. (Nothing inappropriate, but seemingly well beyond what mere acquaintances would discuss). My wife (who is NT and very perceptive) has always thought that this other person liked me, and was shocked to hear that the other person did not consider me to be a friend.

I don't understand the situation. Is your wife friends with her too? And what was happening at the time she said you weren't her friend? Did you just come out and ask her?

 

[STR]

I don't understand the situation. Is your wife friends with her too? And what was happening at the time she said you weren't her friend? Did you just come out and ask her?

My wife knows her too. They are on friendly terms, but wouldn't consider each other to be anything more than neighbors.

It's a long story, but I had grown increasingly confused (and hurt) but the NT's pattern of behavior over the years in which she would cancel scheduled meetings, not follow through on things she said she would do, and not contact me (despite the fact that she usually suggests that we get together when we run into each other). I am not the kind of person to bring these issues up with someone else, but I finally reached a point where I needed to understand where she was coming from so that I could stop obsessing, have some kind of closure, and move on from trying to be her friend.

When I raised the issues, it started a conversation about what might be appropriate expectations for us to have in our acquaintance. This involved trying to figure out “what we are” (e.g. just neighbors or something more than just neighbors, such as “friends”). She offered a long list of explanations (including apologies) for her behavior, but the thing that really stood out was her saying that she did not consider us to be “friends”.

In my view, we were clearly more than just neighbors, because I never spent time with any of our other neighbors, and I don’t think she ever went to lunch with our other neighbors or had the same level of conversations with them that she had with me.

 

[Grumpy Cat]

When I raised the issues, it started a conversation about what might be appropriate expectations for us to have in our acquaintance. This involved trying to figure out “what we are” (e.g. just neighbors or something more than just neighbors, such as “friends”). She offered a long list of explanations (including apologies) for her behavior, but the thing that really stood out was her saying that she did not consider us to be “friends”.

This is what I'm getting as an NT and correct me if I'm wrong. You're married, but you still "do things" alone with this neighbor woman? When you ask the question "what are we" it implies something more like you want to take the relationship past just being friends. It sounds like she was backing off because she thought you wanted to take things to another level - and you're married. That could be why she was apologizing because she thought you got the wrong idea that she wanted more than just to be neighbor friends who are more friendly than your typical neighbors.

In NT land it looks strange for a single person to be doing things alone with another married person if they do things a lot. It especially looks strange to other people if your wife is never with you two when you go out. Does that make sense?

 

[STR]

This is what I'm getting as an NT and correct me if I'm wrong. You're married, but you still "do things" alone with this neighbor woman? When you ask the question "what are we" it implies something more like you want to take the relationship past just being friends. It sounds like she was backing off because she thought you wanted to take things to another level - and you're married. That could be why she was apologizing because she thought you got the wrong idea that she wanted more than just to be neighbor friends who are more friendly than your typical neighbors.

In NT land it looks strange for a single person to be doing things alone with another married person if they do things a lot. It especially looks strange to other people if your wife is never with you two when you go out. Does that make sense?

Yes, it makes sense. She mentioned that while she does think about me sometimes and wonder what I'm doing, one of the reasons she doesn't contact me is that she "Doesn't know how my wife feels about it and doesn't want to impose." I make a point of telling my wife about my interactions with the NT, and I also make a point of speaking highly about my wife and making it clear that I am 100% committed to her whenever the subject comes up with the NT.

When I brought up the issue of "what we are", I expressed the range of possibilities in terms of a low of "just neighbors" ranging to a high of "friends". I did my best to avoid miscommunicating the idea that I wanted to be "more than friends", though I certainly understand how someone in the NT's position could be worried about that. Her apologies were for cancelling a previous recently-scheduled meeting at the last second, after I had cleared out my schedule to make some time for her.

I have realized over time that it is not necessarily a good idea for me to try to be friends with single women, which is partly why I've reduced contact with the NT. But even though I have reduced contact, I have still found myself trying to figure out what happened and why.

 

[Grumpy Cat]

Yes, it makes sense. She mentioned that while she does think about me sometimes and wonder what I'm doing, one of the reasons she doesn't contact me is that she "Doesn't know how my wife feels about it and doesn't want to impose." I make a point of telling my wife about my interactions with the NT, and I also make a point of speaking highly about my wife and making it clear that I am 100% committed to her whenever the subject comes up with the NT.

When I brought up the issue of "what we are", I expressed the range of possibilities in terms of a low of "just neighbors" ranging to a high of "friends". I did my best to avoid miscommunicating the idea that I wanted to be "more than friends", though I certainly understand how someone in the NT's position could be worried about that. Her apologies were for cancelling a previous recently-scheduled meeting at the last second, after I had cleared out my schedule to make some time for her.

I have realized over time that it is not necessarily a good idea for me to try to be friends with single women, which is partly why I've reduced contact with the NT. But even though I have reduced contact, I have still found myself trying to figure out what happened and why.

If it were me, for the subject to even come up about "what were we" would make me pause. It sounds like it could have went somewhere more than just friends.....but you're married. (I know, I keep saying that.) I know you are taking it as a "friendship" and nothing more, but NT women don't. I'm surprised there haven't been a couple of fights between you and your wife because women are usually possessive when it comes to their husbands and another single woman (unless they are all friends and do things together). Case in point - I'm single and my neighbor friend Mary is married to her husband Jimmy. The neighbors tongues would be wagging if I kept leaving the condoplex on the back of Jimmy's hog with my hair flowing in the wind and left Mary in the dust. I'm making a funny, but that's how NT's look at relationships. Now it would be socially acceptable if your neighbor friend went on double dates with you guys.

I think it all came down to when you asked that question about what you guys were. Maybe she was just taking it as a friendship up until that time and that made her think you thought it was more. Idk. You could always just ask her. It's still going to be a little awkward now.

 

[STR]

If it were me, for the subject to even come up about "what were we" would make me pause. It sounds like it could have went somewhere more than just friends.....but you're married. (I know, I keep saying that.) I know you are taking it as a "friendship" and nothing more, but NT women don't. I'm surprised there haven't been a couple of fights between you and your wife because women are usually possessive when it comes to their husbands and another single woman (unless they are all friends and do things together). Case in point - I'm single and my neighbor friend Mary is married to her husband Jimmy. The neighbors tongues would be wagging if I kept leaving the condoplex on the back of Jimmy's hog with my hair flowing in the wind and left Mary in the dust. I'm making a funny, but that's how NT's look at relationships. Now it would be socially acceptable if your neighbor friend went on double dates with you guys.

I think it all came down to when you asked that question about what you guys were. Maybe she was just taking it as a friendship up until that time and that made her think you thought it was more. Idk. You could always just ask her. It's still going to be a little awkward now.

Thanks a lot for sharing your thoughts, nurseangela. In the early days of knowing the NT, my wife wasn't very happy with the idea of me spending time with a single woman and she wasn't always very friendly with the NT. But my wife and I established boundaries for what is acceptable, and I always tell her when I've interacted with the NT, so it's not a secret.

I hadn't really considered the possibility that the NT might have generally been thinking of us as "friends" before backing away from that when I brought up the subject of "what we are". I brought up that subject so that I could better understand what to expect from her in terms of staying in touch, but maybe she took that in a different way from what I intended.

I would like to get some clarity from her about whether we are friends are not, though you are correct that such a conversation would be awkward. I knew that things would probably be awkward after bringing up the issues 6 months ago, but I kinda felt like there was nothing to lose...

 

[Grumpy Cat]

Thanks a lot for sharing your thoughts, nurseangela. In the early days of knowing the NT, my wife wasn't very happy with the idea of me spending time with a single woman and she wasn't always very friendly with the NT. But my wife and I established boundaries for what is acceptable, and I always tell her when I've interacted with the NT, so it's not a secret.

I hadn't really considered the possibility that the NT might have generally been thinking of us as "friends" before backing away from that when I brought up the subject of "what we are". I brought up that subject so that I could better understand what to expect from her in terms of staying in touch, but maybe she took that in a different way from what I intended.

I would like to get some clarity from her about whether we are friends are not, though you are correct that such a conversation would be awkward. I knew that things would probably be awkward after bringing up the issues 6 months ago, but I kinda felt like there was nothing to lose...

I was just wondering, did you used to call her "the NT" before or was that after you two stopped doing things together?

 

[Ste11aeres]

If it were me, for the subject to even come up about "what were we" would make me pause. It sounds like it could have went somewhere more than just friends.....but you're married. (I know, I keep saying that.) I know you are taking it as a "friendship" and nothing more, but NT women don't. I'm surprised there haven't been a couple of fights between you and your wife because women are usually possessive when it comes to their husbands and another single woman (unless they are all friends and do things together). Case in point - I'm single and my neighbor friend Mary is married to her husband Jimmy. The neighbors tongues would be wagging if I kept leaving the condoplex on the back of Jimmy's hog with my hair flowing in the wind and left Mary in the dust. I'm making a funny, but that's how NT's look at relationships. Now it would be socially acceptable if your neighbor friend went on double dates with you guys.

I think it all came down to when you asked that question about what you guys were. Maybe she was just taking it as a friendship up until that time and that made her think you thought it was more. Idk. You could always just ask her. It's still going to be a little awkward now.

Thanks a lot for sharing your thoughts, nurseangela. In the early days of knowing the NT, my wife wasn't very happy with the idea of me spending time with a single woman and she wasn't always very friendly with the NT. But my wife and I established boundaries for what is acceptable, and I always tell her when I've interacted with the NT, so it's not a secret.

I hadn't really considered the possibility that the NT might have generally been thinking of us as "friends" before backing away from that when I brought up the subject of "what we are". I brought up that subject so that I could better understand what to expect from her in terms of staying in touch, but maybe she took that in a different way from what I intended.

I would like to get some clarity from her about whether we are friends are not, though you are correct that such a conversation would be awkward. I knew that things would probably be awkward after bringing up the issues 6 months ago, but I kinda felt like there was nothing to lose...

Based on what Nurse Angela said, maybe what would work best is if, rather than simply telling your wife about her, you made sure that it was the three of you spending time together. That is to say, instead of you and this woman going to lunch together, it was you and this woman and your wife.
Here is a video where Dr Tony Atwood talks about how good Aspies are at platonic friendships, and how that is often misunderstood by NTs.

 

[pushpin]

Here is a video where Dr Tony Atwood talks about how good Aspies are at platonic friendships, and how that is often misunderstood by NTs.

I really appreciate your sharing this video. Having sexual intentions/hidden agendas projected onto you can be so stressful and confusing, at least for me. It's also hurtful especially when all you want to do is talk about and connect on a topic. I didn't realize that this was a common occurrence for those on the spectrum. I have just assumed that I've somehow been doing something wrong each and every time.

 

[Grumpy Cat]

Based on what Nurse Angela said, maybe what would work best is if, rather than simply telling your wife about her, you made sure that it was the three of you spending time together. That is to say, instead of you and this woman going to lunch together, it was you and this woman and your wife.
Here is a video where Dr Tony Atwood talks about how good Aspies are at platonic friendships, and how that is often misunderstood by NTs.

I really like Tony Atwood. What gets me is how does he really know how Aspies think and feel cause he's NT. It's kinda like going to a guy gynecologist - how can they possibly understand anything about women when they aren't one!

 

[Ste11aeres]

I really like Tony Atwood. What gets me is how does he really know how Aspies think and feel cause he's NT. It's kinda like going to a guy gynecologist - how can they possibly understand anything about women when they aren't one!

It's amazing-he understands Aspies so well!

 

[inabox]

I find there are different levels of friendship, a variety of opinions on what those levels are, and differing views on when an acquaintance becomes an actual "friend". Based entirely on what little you've shared, it seems as though what you've got there are friendly acquaintances, with perhaps some potential for friendship.

In my own experience, a person is interested in friendship when they are willing to make a plan to see me, or for me to see them, and when they start to share more personal information and opinions, showing me a bit of who they are inside. Someone who is interested in me as a friend tends to ask me questions about myself that go beyond basic small talk, to explore who I am as well. Someone who is doing something specific with me, but then stays longer just to talk, gives me another clue that they are interested in a possible friendship. Of course some people are just nosey, and don't know when to leave. But a potential friend feels different than that. The balance of talking and listening tends to be more even. Their questions and answers tend to be more thoughtful.

There are also different kinds of friends. Some will never go very deep, and may be based on shared interests. Others may become much more intimate, based around talking at depth about personal things.

The more time you spend with a person who shows interest in being around you, the more the friendship can solidify, and become more apparent. Most of my true friendships took a while to develop. It's rare that I meet someone with whom I can jump right in and call them a "friend". I would expect most other people, Aspie and NT, would say the same.

I hope this helps a bit.

Thank you, yes you have some good ways of telling, I will have to remember them.

 

[Suzanne]

he did not consider us to be friends

Is it at all possible that what she meant was she has a ROMANTIC interest in you, rather than just a friendship interest?