Loomis
Well-Known Member
Turtles all the way down.
Whether you are a Believer or not we can all enjoy this story. (The text below is from Wikipedia.)
A well-known scientist (some say it was Bertrand Russell) once gave a public lecture on astronomy. He described how the earth orbits around the sun and how the sun, in turn, orbits around the center of a vast collection of stars called our galaxy. At the end of the lecture, a little old lady at the back of the room got up and said: "What you have told us is rubbish. The world is really a flat plate supported on the back of a giant tortoise." The scientist gave a superior smile before replying, "What is the tortoise standing on?" "You're very clever, young man, very clever," said the old lady. "But it's tortoises all the way down!"
I fully agree evolution is a fact. Another way to say this is the theory of evolution by natural selection is a description of the process by which evolution occurred. When people say evolution is "a theory" and not fact they misunderstand the scientific definition of theory. Scientists also talk about the theory of gravitational forces but no religion I know of disputes the existence of gravity.
Having said this it is also true that many atheists have a fundamental misunderstanding of religion and spirituality. I believe all religions are myth. At the same time I embrace and practice Christianity. It comes down to how we account for the world. The Greek words logos and mythos describe a scientific and empirical approach vs. an intuitive approach to accounting for the world. Mythos is not fantasy. The Greeks embraced both mythos and logos as two complimentary paths to truth.
I read the Bible with the full realization it was written within the primitive, paternalistic culture of the period from 2000 BCE. to 100 CE. It is not really very hard to reject the outmoded prejudices toward gay and women and still accept the literary beauty and spiritual power within the Bible. I find it sad that so many Christian sects do not see this as obvious. My Christian denomination, as well as many others, has no problem at all separating the wheat from the chaff and rejecting outright the paternalistic errors in the Bible. The idea that there was an actual Adam and Eve, a Noah and a flood is patently absurd. But these allegorical stories contain truths from our ancestral memory.
There is much similarity among religions. They all tend to believe that the important things in life are not "things" but values. There is a recognition that self centered and hedonistic values are inherently destructive to the integrity of a human being. We find integrity through a recognition that a life of virtue, self examination, remorse for bad actions, and restitution to others for harm we have caused lead to a more satisfying life. Spirituality believes these are intuitive truths.
Religion without spirituality is an empty shell. The specific "story" of any religion represents the mythos and the means toward discovering the intuitive truths of how to view life and our fellow human beings.
Whether you are a Believer or not we can all enjoy this story. (The text below is from Wikipedia.)
A well-known scientist (some say it was Bertrand Russell) once gave a public lecture on astronomy. He described how the earth orbits around the sun and how the sun, in turn, orbits around the center of a vast collection of stars called our galaxy. At the end of the lecture, a little old lady at the back of the room got up and said: "What you have told us is rubbish. The world is really a flat plate supported on the back of a giant tortoise." The scientist gave a superior smile before replying, "What is the tortoise standing on?" "You're very clever, young man, very clever," said the old lady. "But it's tortoises all the way down!"
I fully agree evolution is a fact. Another way to say this is the theory of evolution by natural selection is a description of the process by which evolution occurred. When people say evolution is "a theory" and not fact they misunderstand the scientific definition of theory. Scientists also talk about the theory of gravitational forces but no religion I know of disputes the existence of gravity.
Having said this it is also true that many atheists have a fundamental misunderstanding of religion and spirituality. I believe all religions are myth. At the same time I embrace and practice Christianity. It comes down to how we account for the world. The Greek words logos and mythos describe a scientific and empirical approach vs. an intuitive approach to accounting for the world. Mythos is not fantasy. The Greeks embraced both mythos and logos as two complimentary paths to truth.
I read the Bible with the full realization it was written within the primitive, paternalistic culture of the period from 2000 BCE. to 100 CE. It is not really very hard to reject the outmoded prejudices toward gay and women and still accept the literary beauty and spiritual power within the Bible. I find it sad that so many Christian sects do not see this as obvious. My Christian denomination, as well as many others, has no problem at all separating the wheat from the chaff and rejecting outright the paternalistic errors in the Bible. The idea that there was an actual Adam and Eve, a Noah and a flood is patently absurd. But these allegorical stories contain truths from our ancestral memory.
There is much similarity among religions. They all tend to believe that the important things in life are not "things" but values. There is a recognition that self centered and hedonistic values are inherently destructive to the integrity of a human being. We find integrity through a recognition that a life of virtue, self examination, remorse for bad actions, and restitution to others for harm we have caused lead to a more satisfying life. Spirituality believes these are intuitive truths.
Religion without spirituality is an empty shell. The specific "story" of any religion represents the mythos and the means toward discovering the intuitive truths of how to view life and our fellow human beings.
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