Do you believe in God?

[AlittleEccentric]

Yes, but my definition of God is quite different than most. It is basically Zurvanite Zoroastrianism, the form of Zoroastrianism that was the state religion of the Sassanian Empire. (the last Persian empire before the conquest of Persia by the Arabs)
It is more philosophical in nature.
I'll try to explain, but it is probably going to sound rather convoluted.
I believe in two forces, One good, One evil, both in conflict with one another. The Good is Ahura Mazda, the Evil, Angra Mainyu.
These forces emerged from the endless expanse that is Time (or Zurvan).
Every individual has the choice to do good, or to do evil. Good is defined as what helps humanity and life on Earth in general. Evil is defined by what harms humanity and life on Earth in general.
Everyone has the ability to do good or evil, so the battle between Ahura Mazda and Angra Mainyu plays out on an individual level.
Therefore, on an individual level, it is a person's duty to do good and eschew evil.
So Ahura Mazda is God, Angra Mainyu is the 'devil' figure, essentially. Zurvan is more or less just the personification of time and fate, and is only viewed as a conscious entity is some mythological and cosmological tales.

I love this approach because it avoids the paradox of an omnipotent deity that still allows evil to exist, and in fact created evil. One of the things that drove absolutely flaming bonkers with the Abrahamic faiths was the idea that God actually created evil, (i. e. the devil) despite being omnipotent (so he could stop him, but just hasn't yet) and omniscient (so he apparently knew the devil was going to betray him).

I also love this approach because the emphasis isn't on belief in God per se, but rather on acting in a morally upright and altruistic way. A high value is placed on honesty, something that, as an Aspie, I have a great deal of (sometimes detrimentally in social situations) and it appeals to me because one of the things that irks me the most is dishonesty and insincerity, on the part of individuals or groups.

 

[granolaturtle]

Yes, but my definition of God is quite different than most. It is basically Zurvanite Zoroastrianism, the form of Zoroastrianism that was the state religion of the Sassanian Empire. (the last Persian empire before the conquest of Persia by the Arabs)
It is more philosophical in nature.
I'll try to explain, but it is probably going to sound rather convoluted.
I believe in two forces, One good, One evil, both in conflict with one another. The Good is Ahura Mazda, the Evil, Angra Mainyu.
These forces emerged from the endless expanse that is Time (or Zurvan).
Every individual has the choice to do good, or to do evil. Good is defined as what helps humanity and life on Earth in general. Evil is defined by what harms humanity and life on Earth in general.
Everyone has the ability to do good or evil, so the battle between Ahura Mazda and Angra Mainyu plays out on an individual level.
Therefore, on an individual level, it is a person's duty to do good and eschew evil.
So Ahura Mazda is God, Angra Mainyu is the 'devil' figure, essentially. Zurvan is more or less just the personification of time and fate, and is only viewed as a conscious entity is some mythological and cosmological tales.

I love this approach because it avoids the paradox of an omnipotent deity that still allows evil to exist, and in fact created evil. One of the things that drove absolutely flaming bonkers with the Abrahamic faiths was the idea that God actually created evil, (i. e. the devil) despite being omnipotent (so he could stop him, but just hasn't yet) and omniscient (so he apparently knew the devil was going to betray him).

I also love this approach because the emphasis isn't on belief in God per se, but rather on acting in a morally upright and altruistic way. A high value is placed on honesty, something that, as an Aspie, I have a great deal of (sometimes detrimentally in social situations) and it appeals to me because one of the things that irks me the most is dishonesty and insincerity, on the part of individuals or groups.

It's wonderful you found a faith that makes sense for you, but keep in mind that your perspective on it may not be the same as those who have been practicing their whole lives and who have been taught by their parents and communities. Its like when people say when Buddhism is a "lifestyle". You might view it that way, but there are real people who actually follow it as a religion and do consider belief important.

 

[AlittleEccentric]

It's wonderful you found a faith that makes sense for you, but keep in mind that your perspective on it may not be the same as those who have been practicing their whole lives and who have been taught by their parents and communities. Its like when people say when Buddhism is a "lifestyle". You might view it that way, but there are real people who actually follow it as a religion and do consider belief important.

That is an absolutely excellent observation! It's definitely important to respect the beliefs of other cultures, particularly when you are adopting them. This is especially true in regards to religious matters. There definitely are Zoroastrian communities out there, some are open to conversion (i. e. accepting new members not born into the community), some are not.
(Forgive the historical rambling about to come, history, particularly ancient history is an obsession of mine )

Zurvanism is a dead sect, sadly, at least to my knowledge. After Persia was conquered, polemics were vigorously launched against it due to it having been the state religion, and it was persecuted to the point of annihilation. Other more traditional Zoroastrian groups survived, but the Zurvanite branch of it did not. It was degraded and many texts related to it were burned. This is a horrible loss, especially because any uniquely Zurvanite rituals were probably lost with it.
As such, the Zurvanite branch essentially no longer exists, at least as a community.
Interestingly, Zurvanism did influence some sects of Buddhism, especially among the Sogdians, who merged aspects of it with Buddhism later.

One of the reasons i love it so much is because it's actually the product of cultural and religious intersection between a huge variety of peoples, particularly Persians, Indians, Mesopotamians, and Greeks. it brought all of them together during the Sassanian era, despite their cultural differences.

As to belief, I do believe it rather strongly, but I cannot perform any of the rituals. They've either been lost or require the use of elaborate equipment and incense that I cannot afford (and that may not even exist any more)

Thanks for the reply! Your response was thought provoking.

 

[granolaturtle]

It's clear you have a very conscientious attitude about the subject. It's interesting, actually, I've heard it said that Zoroastrianism is the precursor of other Abrahamic faiths.

It almost sounds a bit like Judaism in attitudes towards converts: not actively seeking then out, but certain sects are open to those willing to study the religion and put time into converting.

Your comment was pretty darn informative.

 

[AlittleEccentric]

It's clear you have a very conscientious attitude about the subject. It's interesting, actually, I've heard it said that Zoroastrianism is the precursor of other Abrahamic faiths.

It almost sounds a bit like Judaism in attitudes towards converts: not actively seeking then out, but certain sects are open to those willing to study the religion and put time into converting.

Your comment was pretty darn informative.

Thank you so much It's great to receive thought provoking replies amd to see people interested, especially about stuff I love so much!
It is rather sad that Zurvanite Zoroastrianism is no longer around, but at least the other branches are still keeping the overall tradition going!

The main differences between the Zurvanite and traditional branches is that traditionalists hold either that Ahura Mazda and Angra Mainyu are the only uncreated entities, or that Ahura Mazda is the only uncreated entity, this difference depends on how much of the later Avesta (sacred texts) they accept as canon. In the Zurvanite branch however, Fate plays a much more integral role, as Zurvan, the personification of Fate and Time. Zurvan is a neutral entity, neither good nor evil.

Your comparison with Judaism is excellent. When looking at ancient history, I like to compare traditional Zoroastrianism to Judaism and Zurvanism to Christianity (which originally began as a variant of Judaism) and Islam. It's not a perfect comparison but it is accurate in one important way: while Traditional Zoroastrianism was relatively laid back as far as conversion went, Zurvanite Zoroastrianism was actually by far the most aggressive proselytizer of all the Zoroastrian sects.

The reason for this is that under the Sassanians, Zurvanism became particularly important in a continuing conflict with the Christian Byzantine empire (another awesome civilization). The Sassanians found the idea that God created the evil force, Satan, horrifying and contradictory, because then (in their view) God became the source of evil. Byzantines found the idea of God being the brother of the evil force (Ahura Mada and Angra Mainyu are twins in Zurvanism) as horrifying and disgusting because evil was now on a more even playing ground with good, and related to God by blood.

Ironically, both religions would be mixed quite a bit by various Gnostic sects and religions such as Manicheanism , much to the consternation of both the Sassanian Zurvanite Zoroastrian church and the Byzantine Orthodox Christian church.

Well, at least they agreed on something

 

[zurb]

Evil in Christianity is anything that separates us from our creator. Evil is not something in itself, but rather a lack of something – just the same as our physics teacher said there is no such thing as 'vacuum', or 'cold'. Evil is not the opposite of good, but the absence (partially or fully) of good. Evil causes separation from God because God by definition is good. God can not create an absence of himself, but others may choose to withdraw themselves from him. I think in discussing other religions we (people in general) sometimes use the same words, but project our own meaning onto them. My 2¢.

 

[AlittleEccentric]

Evil in Christianity is anything that separates us from our creator. Evil is not something in itself, but rather a lack of something – just the same as our physics teacher said there is no such thing as 'vacuum', or 'cold'. Evil is not the opposite of good, but the absence (partially or fully) of good. Evil causes separation from God because God by definition is good. God can not create an absence of himself, but others may choose to withdraw themselves from him. I think in discussing other religions we (people in general) sometimes use the same words, but project our own meaning onto them. My 2¢.

You are 100 percent correct.
The conflict between the Sassanian and Byzantine religions was how they perceived evil and how they interpreted each other's perceptions of evil and God's relation to it.
Applying the philosophy of one religion to the doctrine of another often leads to such misunderstandings.
Awesome observation!

 

[Xenocity]

I believe in God and that there is way more out there than our physical world.
This is partly due to my unusual experiences over the years and part due to feelings I cannot explain.

I am a highly spiritual person, I am also a big believer/follower of science and very intelligent too.

Science hasn't even begun to conclusively disproven God, spiritualness, other forces/factors that ancient people talked about, etc...

I also have trouble believing that this universe came from nothing, which happened all of a sudden due to the big bang.
There nothing to explain why the big bang happened.
There is a new movement in science is challenging the established big bang theory.

I find it very weird and odd that everything just lined up perfectly in the universe randomly without any "help".
If things would have been off by the smallest amount, life wouldn't have existed anywhere in the universe.
I also find it hard to believe that inanimate molecules were jolted to life, by energy released in the primordial oceans.

Also it is very likely living thing in the universe are conscious, despite science trying to prove otherwise.
Some scientists have proposed a theory that consciousness is a fundamental part of the universe and doesn't cease once the organism dies.

Science has yet to prove where consciousness comes from and where it resides in organisms.
I mean you can literally have practically no brain (yes it has been recorded twice by doctors with in the past hundred years) and still be fully conscious and functional.
Kids have lost half their brains with no real loss of function and consciousness, they grew up to be full functioning adults.
This has baffled scientists and doctors, because they cannot find where in the human brain it lies, despite centuries of research.

Science also hasn't disproven spirits, souls, and stuff of this nature despite trying heavily.

Science is also splitting over whether or not life originated on earth or that life was sent to earth from somewhere else in the universe.

Science has explained a lot and given us a lot, but it hasn't touched on a lot too or failed to explain and solve many things too.

 

[Sindri]

I'm an atheist I do believe energy goes on, but I do not believe in spirits, or the afterlife, or a supreme being...unless you count science. ^_^

 

[Sindri]

I find it very weird and odd that everything just lined up perfectly in the universe randomly without any "help".
If things would have been off by the smallest amount, life wouldn't have existed anywhere in the universe.

How do you figure things lined up perfectly? "Things" were created, and destroyed, and mutated, and destroyed and created again. Lots of things have been off...what about all of our diseases, and defects..what about all of our petty human emotions?

"Science" is not splitting over if we were sent from another planet. Where is your info coming from?

 

[Naturalist]

It doesn't matter whether I believe or disbelieve in God. Such an entity either exists or it doesn't, and that existence is in no way affected by my belief or disbelief. Although I will say that "God" as a concept absolutely does exist, otherwise we would not have religions built around that core concept. Does God exist as some sort of sentient being? Who knows... I'd prefer to concern myself with matters that are knowable. It's more productive.

 

[Shiznown]

I am a pantheist. I believe that "God" is really just energy/consciousness that makes up everything. That the universe itself is essentially "God". String theory intrigues me. The concept of these "strings" that essentially make up everything. Do you see where I'm going with this? If "God" is omnipresent and these "strings" make up everything, then these "strings" are in essence "God".

 

[Xenocity]

How do you figure things lined up perfectly? "Things" were created, and destroyed, and mutated, and destroyed and created again. Lots of things have been off...what about all of our diseases, and defects..what about all of our petty human emotions?

"Science" is not splitting over if we were sent from another planet. Where is your info coming from?

There are competing theories gathering steam that the seeds of life came to Earth via comets and other celestial objects.
it is believed this has led to life on other planets.

It's widely been reported on the past few years.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panspermia
http://news.berkeley.edu/2013/03/05/research-news-briefs-did-comets-seed-life-on-earth/
http://www.space.com/17980-comets-frozen-seeds-of-life-from-beyond-the-solar-system-video.html
http://www.astrobio.net/topic/solar...s-and-asteroids/scattering-the-seeds-of-life/


Biology teaches us that for some reason all the variables required for life to exist, happen to fall into place perfectly.
If any of these variables were off by any degree, scientist agree the universe would be inhospitable to life.
They don't know why the pieces perfectly aligned and fell into place, they haven't figured it out.

This includes all life that could in theory exist.

 

[Shiznown]

Spirits are simply just beings that reside in other dimensions. Scientist have already discovered that multiple dimensions exist.

 

[Sindri]

There are competing theories gathering steam that the seeds of life came to Earth via comets and other celestial objects.
it is believed this has led to life on other planets.

It's widely been reported on the past few years.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panspermia
http://news.berkeley.edu/2013/03/05/research-news-briefs-did-comets-seed-life-on-earth/
http://www.space.com/17980-comets-frozen-seeds-of-life-from-beyond-the-solar-system-video.html
http://www.astrobio.net/topic/solar...s-and-asteroids/scattering-the-seeds-of-life/


Biology teaches us that for some reason all the variables required for life to exist, happen to fall into place perfectly.
If any of these variables were off by any degree, scientist agree the universe would be inhospitable to life.
They don't know why the pieces perfectly aligned and fell into place, they haven't figured it out.

This includes all life that could in theory exist.

Oh yes It sounded like you meant life as we knew it came from another planet. I understand now

 

[Sindri]

Spirits are simply just beings that reside in other dimensions. Scientist have already discovered that multiple dimensions exist.

Yes but still no proof of spirits. That's not to say I don't think it's possible. I just go with facts.

 

[Maelstrom]

I know God is real...a Angel saved my life and I also know Lucifer is real I saw his real face in a dream...the old ugly widowpeaked face...he doesn't like me very much......for good reason I wont go into why... it is too much for you little ones.

Funny how every one argues over whether God is real, and in the next breath blame him for everything bad thing in the world? real good logic on that one...

But not one little squeak about Lucifer the Father of Death being real, or blaming him for everything rotten in the world? Why is that? If you all are too scared to even say his name what does that say about all your brave protestations about God not being real?
I think the Blarny Stone in Ireland needs some polishing badly...any volunteers?

 

[Flinty]

Science hasn't even begun to conclusively disproven God, spiritualness, other forces/factors that ancient people talked about, etc...
<...>
Science also hasn't disproven spirits, souls, and stuff of this nature despite trying heavily.

It's not science's job to disprove anything.

 

[Ste11aeres]

It's not science's job to disprove anything.

Yes and no. Research in science sometimes requires disproving prior scientific theories, or coming up with your own, and possibly disproving your own, also.

That being said, science deals with the physical material world, and spirits, God, etc, are not part of the physical material world. They are not part of the subject matter of science. Just like the meaning of Crime and Punishment is not part of the subject matter of science (an imperfect analogy, yes. But it's late at night and I'm too tired to think of a better one). Investigation into the existence of God is philosophy, by definition. (Yes, a scientist can think about it. But he will at that point be a scientist who is doing philosopy. And, yes, philosophy can be influenced by scientific findings). Now, certain religions might make specific claims that can be investigated by science. So some religious things can be investigated by science (was this physical event really a miracle?), others cannot.

 

[Jacoby]

If I were supposed to believe in god then god would of made it so

organized religion seems like a sham to me