Do you have a problem with authority?

[Kalinychta]

Everyone always references The Wall, but Pink Floyd’s album Animals by far expresses the ghoulishness of authority.

 

[Kalinychta]

You know, I actually saw a video related to the school thing recently.

And it said pretty much that. Supposedly, the original purpose of the basic school system/structure/ideas was to prepare students for the sorts of jobs that were most common at the time: Factory work. It wasnt meant to give them incredible worldly knowledge. It was just about preparing them for that specific existence.

And because people are dumber than a sack of hammers and tend to simply do things because "that's how it's done", the system was never changed. Boy does it show. It's SO bad that it makes kids specifically want to NOT learn. Show them something, and say that they can learn things from that something, and you've instantly lost them. Because it's like school to them, and school is inherently bad. I think we've all been there. Even without things like the bully aspect, and stuff of that nature... it still all just sucked.

I dunno about everyone else, but I learned pretty much nothing over all of those years. I credit school with teaching me exactly three things: 1: reading. 2: writing. And number 2 later became 3: typing.

And that's seriously it. My family seems to think I'm oh-so-smart and know everything, but it's not that. It's that I didnt even TRY in school, because I saw it as a nonsensical waste of time. So, dont try at all in class, become knowledgable, that was the sequence. Which sounds totally backwards, but it isnt. It means that I just paid attention to other sources of info instead, instead of wasting mental space. Heck, it's why I learned computers (they didnt even teach that in school back then).

Really, if school was truly about learning, they'd try to make it interesting and fun. Instead, they just lecture and give homework (because yeah, taking away a kid's fun time at home is REALLY going to glue them to the lessons). All because "that's how it's done".

The entire system is an example of the sort of nonsense that authority can be, when a lack of proper logic is involved.

Oh my god, you’re so right. I truly almost believe that the other purpose of school (other than teaching children to obey) is to teach us to despise learning. They make it a chore and a bore. It’s always astonished me that people who have university degrees are supposed to consider themselves educated, when actually nothing could be further from the truth. True education has nothing to do with university. It’s a desire, a drive, a lifelong pursuit. It has nothing to do with a diploma or degree. And in fact, I believe that college is mostly about proving to employers that you have stamina, that you are willing to withstand a lot of BS classes and exams and show that you’re willing to jump through hoops and memorize and regurgitate facts on exams and do as you’re told.

And more to the point of this thread, I believe that autistic people probably do have problems with authority, because by definition we are outsiders. We see through the BS of society. It’s inevitable.

 

[Kalinychta]

And that's seriously it. My family seems to think I'm oh-so-smart and know everything, but it's not that.

I wanted to add really quick that every person I’ve ever gotten close to thinks the same about me! Namely that I’m the most brilliant person they’ve ever met. And I’m not even bragging in the slightest, because I always tell them the same thing: I’m autistic. It’s because I’m autistic, for Pete’s sake. When you’re an outsider, you see things that “normal” people don’t see. You understand things that they don’t understand. And I know that so many autistic people know exactly what I’m talking about! “Normal” people confuse this for brilliance.

 

[HibiscusFlower]

I was wondering if autistic people who have had to live in the mainstream have had a hard time with authority due to certain teachers and bosses coming down on them too much.

Some may have been lucky enough to have a teacher on their side to protect them against the tyrannical power freaks. I always believed that school was something to survive and come out of with as little damage as possible. Dreadful institution. Children should be encouraged to hunt knowledge, hunger for the knowledge they are interested in at their own pace, in the medium that suits them. Not be force-fed uniform knowledge and just need to spew it out again on demand. There are a great many control freaks in the educational system who have no idea what ASD, ADHD or Dyslexia is or how to help these kids flourish and be happy which should be the objective of anyone working in the system.I teach English as a second language to adults and I have many students with learning challenges that still are traumatized by some tyrannical nutcase of a teacher in high school. I told my highly ADHD son when he was in school that he should treat his teachers with respect but not take them to heart or believe them when they made him feel like a failure. I told him that there is life after school and it will not define who he is forever. I was unpopular with the teaching staff because they neglected his special needs and accommodations throughout his schooling.We focused on his talents and gifts at home whereas school always dwelt on his failings and bad behavior (which was really dreadful, he was very impulsive, even though we taught him to respect the rules he kept on breaking them) and they didn't even notice that he was a brilliant artist, musician and sportsman.
I myself behave badly with authority figures if they are ninnies with inflated egos and if their demands are illogical or unfair, but I live in a country where you can say what you want to whoever you want without fear, though I would speak my mind anyway because that's my nature, have no fear when you seek the truth.

 

[Dadamen]

Mostly not, I'm even often the teacher's pet because of my good marks, hard work and good behaviour on lessons, but once I had a quarell with one teacher that was known as strictest and worst in school. When I asked her what I did wrong in a task, she took this as an attack to her authority.

 

[Jumpback]

Some may have been lucky enough to have a teacher on their side to protect them against the tyrannical power freaks. I always believed that school was something to survive and come out of with as little damage as possible. Dreadful institution. Children should be encouraged to hunt knowledge, hunger for the knowledge they are interested in at their own pace, in the medium that suits them. Not be force-fed uniform knowledge and just need to spew it out again on demand. There are a great many control freaks in the educational system who have no idea what ASD, ADHD or Dyslexia is or how to help these kids flourish and be happy which should be the objective of anyone working in the system.I teach English as a second language to adults and I have many students with learning challenges that still are traumatized by some tyrannical nutcase of a teacher in high school. I told my highly ADHD son when he was in school that he should treat his teachers with respect but not take them to heart or believe them when they made him feel like a failure. I told him that there is life after school and it will not define who he is forever. I was unpopular with the teaching staff because they neglected his special needs and accommodations throughout his schooling.We focused on his talents and gifts at home whereas school always dwelt on his failings and bad behavior (which was really dreadful, he was very impulsive, even though we taught him to respect the rules he kept on breaking them) and they didn't even notice that he was a brilliant artist, musician and sportsman.
I myself behave badly with authority figures if they are ninnies with inflated egos and if their demands are illogical or unfair, but I live in a country where you can say what you want to whoever you want without fear, though I would speak my mind anyway because that's my nature, have no fear when you seek the truth.

I’m not sure that the school system is bad for those who are more common, like neurotypical types who have more common personality types and no unusual tendencies...such as in, Myers Briggs more common SJ types who conform to norms more comfortably and just naturally are focused on things that directly benefit or affect them and who tend to comfortably fit into normal social structures and have no unusual tendendicies such as ADHD.

I have autististic issues, have pretty extreme tendencies in some areas of personality, have confounding problems like ADHD and anxiety and so on and outside of things like reading, writing and arithmetic, structure and conforming and fitting in sitting still was more a torment than a help. And as far as reading and so on, trying to pay attention in class was close to pointless, but since I read books at home I jus naturally grasp sentence structure. Like I think I thought for about 3 years that the contraction ma’am was pronounced “mama.” Despite being in the US I tended to spell a lot of words in British ways for a long time since I read a lot of books by British authors. Like I still have a hard time not writing the word “color” as “colour” and so on.

Like I could not pay attention very well, but since I liked reading, I was just kind of naturally became a good reader in grade school. In high school, I read the whole history text book because I found it interesting. Algebra II in high school I couldn’t pay attention because autism was undiagnosed and adhd undiagnosed and severe anxiety issues were undiagnosed and I was mainly trying to just not appear strange to girls in my class, by hiding unbuttoning of my pants because tight clothes drive my crazy.. But the concepts of algragra II are not uninteresting to me, it was the structure that tormented me.

And even into college, lectures were close to pointless since I could not pay attention. In “introduction to journalism,” I found out that note taking service (I went to one of largest colleges in US) would take notes and I could buy them, so I went first day and on test days and just studied the notes right before tests and got an A-

But then subjects I am interested in post college, especially history or social science I get sort of obsessed with since they either directly affec me or are interesting to me, then I can see the all the flaws in phd papers and so on. I could never do this with math or science, but since I naturally associate everything and am very comfortable with things in this direction that are difficult for others, I can jump levels quickly on things that I am good at.

Like I don’t want to make blanket judgements about the education system, because I feel like for “normal” people it is not such a terrible solution, such as more “normal” 7 year olds just would do something else if they weren’t sort of forced to learn to read and write, but for me it was not very helpful.

Then bullying before college and politically incorrect crimes and authority figures paying no attention or placing all the blame on me or diagnosing me or accusing me for crimes committed against me in college severely messed with my head, which actually made both grade school and college experiences sort of traumatic, college assault issues and how they were reacted to removed all hope that Incould ever have a normal job or career and convinced me I was so flawed that I should never breed and that my mind was just basically flawed, due to the United piling on of peers and authority figures finding all the fault for crimes committed against me were things evil about me or things wrong with me or things where my brain caused me to confuse crimes committed against me with non existent repressed things and 10 other nonsensical things because my brain did not work correctly. Which also removed any hope that very basic actual issues might be addressed for decades, which destroyed all self confidence I had and made me agoraphobic and then even more succeptible to mistreatment since authority figures and peers had found ways to find the victim guilty or flawed or lying or dangerous about crimes against them. Which then resulted in lots more mistreatment since the college system had beat me down so far, and since psychs build on previous diagnoses and kept misunderstanding the issue in every possible way lots and lots and lots and lots more consequences

 

[HibiscusFlower]

I am sorry that you had traumatic experiences Jumpback. I do think that even NT's with excellent memory retention and learning skills would benefit from a reformed system that addresses each child's skills and needs individually for his/her maximum benefit in adulthood. No child should be depressed at 7 years old and think they are an idiot because the system has failed him.

This experiment, "Beyond the hole in the wall" is encouraging, I actually volunteered to help this project but it didn't work out from my country. What would happen if you just left a computer in a hole in the wall in a remote village in India where the children do not even know English, have never seen a computer and are barely literate if at all? The results are amazing.........

 

[Jumpback]

See, but I do not doubt the basic value of the education systems for those who are more “normal,” nor do I doubt the efforts to help the underprivileged as in this video or to help those who sort of don’t fit.


But I do not fit in any way, shape or form, both with structure or with societal beliefs in both fairly conservative rural school or very liberal large university.


I just fit in no conceivable way, making the whole system all along the way more traumatic than helpful.


Like kindergarten through 12th grade, sitting still in class attempting to pay attention when I can’t and being constantly tormented by uncomfortable clothes was not fun. Then there was the physical bullying and strange torments starting in 7th grade which graduated to physical violence by 9th grade which made everything far worse. And the teachers even just witnessed even pretty severe physical violence and did absolutely nothing about it or even bothered to give me advice on how to deal with it. I even got surrounded and harassed by a group of loser burnouts about having a “Jewish nose” despite that I am not Jewish.


But yet among my graduating class I scored the highest on at the time standardized military sufficiency exams which 12th graders were required to take, and I mean by a lot. Then I think I scored the highest among my rural graduating class on standardized college tests (ACT). Scoring on these was despite school, not because of it.

So due to being autistic spectrum and just weird, somehow I view all the terrible things as just somehow evidence that these people are the rural school were just dumbass red necks and conservative hate and became ultra liberal, because it just seemed like that was the problem at the time, because I could find no other explanation for what just seemed like evil nonsense.

So I go to college and I still can’t sit still or pay attention in class and so on and had no idea how to socialize with anyone and so on.

But at least I find my place among a group of gays and gay advocates, and everything is fine until gay guy won’t leave me alone and him and his boyfriend sexually assault me, except my peer group of gay and gay advocates fail to see why I might be upset about this, but it was because to me this was the last straw in a very long history of torment and abuse and this simple crime was just the straw that broke the camels back. But to try to get help I get assigned gay, gay advocate university counselor, then gay advocate psychs and so on, but because I am blunt and when I am upset I pace in a crazy way it all must be about repressed things or things terrible or dangerous about me or because of endless disorders or my brain was malformed. This confused me to no end because I was extremely sympathetic to liberal causes and I just wanted even just basic sympathy for a crime being committed rather than diagnoses and accusations and endless additional nonsense

All of it was awful, and the liberal college accusations for being a victim of a crime even more so than the conservative high school bullying.

Like I am naturally curious and like to learn about things. Like just leave me alone with a bunch of books and some minimal guidance without all the structure and nonsensical bullying and so on and I probably would have learned more and not have trauma that has sort of dominated my life and I would probably be better off and more successful and happier and endless other positives. The entire system not only failed me but sort of traumatized me and completely took away normal chances in life by messing up my head so badly.

But, still, I do not doubt that for more “normal” people the system works fine. It’s just for me the system was even just kind of cruel. I do not know a solution, but I am sure as hell not going to give in to societal pressure that be normal and not express my concerns and not be fairly deeply rebeluous about how authority figures can just absolute a*holes and even cruel because someone is inconvenient and this inconvenient individual might cause effort that the do not want to put forth in even extremely minor ways or authority figures can more easily get rid of inconvenient individual by just lying and being accusatory and mean because this takes 1/10th the effort of actually putting forth effort to understand or help. Or just because things might require authority figures to put forth effort by looking something up or just bothering to listen or lend advice or might cause them mild discomfort or inconvenient use of time which will not benefit authority figures personal objectives or wealth or might minorly be uncomfortable to their belief systems

Like, I might compare things to a sheep herder, who has a bunch of sheep who just can be herded around pretty easily, but if there is this one which keeps failing to be conveniently herded into pens and requires effort to chase down, sheep herder might just let wayward sheep run off and get eaten by wolves and blame the sheep for his fate.

People are ultimately very lazy and self-interested and for people with established positions and authorities and political beliefs that are comfortable and established leads to even more laziness. A misfits plight might cause discomfort, causing authority figures to blame and accuse someone who just doesn’t fit because accusing a victim just requires almost no effort while actually helping might require effort or mental discomfort. So unless there is some pressure to do something, authority figures actually tend to blame and accuse the victim. It’s all about people being self-interested and ultimately always trying to find ways to exert as little effort as possible or not do or think about anything which might cause discomfort.

 

[Jumpback]

I think that the “question authority” thing might have been a popular idea in the counterculture movements of the 1960s. But then it sort of seems to me that maybe a lot of the hippies questioned authority, but then just blindly followed the authority of expected behavior and thoughts for those in the counterculture movement.

I am way more threatening mentally to authority figures than hippies while also being less physically threatening or group joining threatening, though I have no way to question without being punished for non compliance. I look normal but I am not uncomfortable questioning anything and am driven to do so, maybe both because of my experiences and the way I work. I just trust my internalizations more than 40 PhDs about social ideas, maybe both because my experiences have taught me to trust no authority figures, be they conservative or liberal, and maybe because just how I work. Like I am not rebellious against anyone in particular, I get rebellious against social beliefs and PhDs or media conglomerates because I can see the holes in their arguments

 

[Misery]

Oh my god, you’re so right. I truly almost believe that the other purpose of school (other than teaching children to obey) is to teach us to despise learning. They make it a chore and a bore. It’s always astonished me that people who have university degrees are supposed to consider themselves educated, when actually nothing could be further from the truth. True education has nothing to do with university. It’s a desire, a drive, a lifelong pursuit. It has nothing to do with a diploma or degree. And in fact, I believe that college is mostly about proving to employers that you have stamina, that you are willing to withstand a lot of BS classes and exams and show that you’re willing to jump through hoops and memorize and regurgitate facts on exams and do as you’re told.

And more to the point of this thread, I believe that autistic people probably do have problems with authority, because by definition we are outsiders. We see through the BS of society. It’s inevitable.

You know, I found an image that kinda sums the whole thing up pretty well:

That's what school always was to me. And to quite a few on the spectrum, I think.

But the techniques they use to do this tend not to work very well on those on the spectrum. Incompatible, you could say. Like trying to run Windows software on a Mac. The same reason why things like advertisements will just bounce off, as they're purely designed to function on the "normal" mind.

What also gets me though is how far this persists. School also tends to teach you that if you dont have a traditional job... you're just a waste of space. Even if you do things that have far more value.

A friend of mine will, every now and then, berate me for that reason. I dont work. I dont need the money, and I dont get some bizarre satisfaction from being a cashier or something, so why in the world would I? But instead I do things like care for my dogs, visit my grandma to make her happy, try to help people online with their problems... stuff like that. And to me, that's FAR more important than standing around in a bloody Walmart so that the rich fatcat at the top of the totem pole gets even richer.

But my friend is TOTALLY on board with the traditional idea of a "job" and how it's "contributing to society". And I'm sorry, but I tend not to think that working at a Gamestop and trying to scam people out of their freaking phones (yes, that company actually does that, and the lowest level employees are forced to do it) is "contributing" to anything. But in his mind... and the minds of far too many.... it's technically a job, so it is somehow good. Ridiculous. So every now and then he'll bring up a question like "What do you plan to DO with your life? Are you always going to be a lazy lump?" and I always wanna go bash my face against a tree for 20 minutes to knock the stupid out of my ears. Even more idiotic, the game development experience I've got is often considered by people to not be "real" work. Why? Because it was contracted work for an independent developer, and there was no big corporation involved, and everyone just KNOWS that all jobs involve a big company of some sort, right? That's so illogical that Spock from Star Trek would just violently detonate if he were to hear it.

And that's how it is. Not just for school or work, but for alot of society's arbitrary gibberish. But as you say, most of us here are outsiders by default, and tend not to give a fart about any of that nonsense, because it isnt logical. Because it seems silly. And we have a tendency to just do our own loopy things to begin with.

And that all leads to the conflict with authority. Particularly in school... there's a reason why many on the spectrum end up in "special-ed" classes. It's a bloody stupid reason, but a reason nonetheless.

Anytime I try to explain ANY of this to anyone I know in person, they look at me as if I just sneezed out a whole bunch of eyeballs. You can SEE them having a mental bluescreen moment.

"Sneezed out a whole bunch of eyeballs", I think I've had enough caffeine today.

 

[hatfullofrain]

Yes. I've always needed solid reasons before I do things. I hate doing something just because someone says so

I have no feelings of natural awe for heirarchy. I don't even care about climbing and corporate or social ladders. I never understood why people care about prestige.

I understand why I've got to listen to some people. It's logical to do what the policeman directing traffic says or I might crash my car into someone. I don't need to know the exact reason why they are sending me down this street and not the other one. I can grasp the overall point of following direction.

But at school I found it very difficult to respect teachers. Some were very inconsistent and seemed unreasonable. I felt like I wasn't treated like an individual human at school so I left asap. I hated school so much I left half way through my final year before exams. Basically as soon as I was legally able to.

I preferred college because you were on first name terms with lecturers and they talk to you like you're a real person and with respect.

 

[Kalinychta]

You know, I found an image that kinda sums the whole thing up pretty well:

View attachment 63683

That's what school always was to me. And to quite a few on the spectrum, I think.

But the techniques they use to do this tend not to work very well on those on the spectrum. Incompatible, you could say. Like trying to run Windows software on a Mac. The same reason why things like advertisements will just bounce off, as they're purely designed to function on the "normal" mind.

What also gets me though is how far this persists. School also tends to teach you that if you dont have a traditional job... you're just a waste of space. Even if you do things that have far more value.

A friend of mine will, every now and then, berate me for that reason. I dont work. I dont need the money, and I dont get some bizarre satisfaction from being a cashier or something, so why in the world would I? But instead I do things like care for my dogs, visit my grandma to make her happy, try to help people online with their problems... stuff like that. And to me, that's FAR more important than standing around in a bloody Walmart so that the rich fatcat at the top of the totem pole gets even richer.

But my friend is TOTALLY on board with the traditional idea of a "job" and how it's "contributing to society". And I'm sorry, but I tend not to think that working at a Gamestop and trying to scam people out of their freaking phones (yes, that company actually does that, and the lowest level employees are forced to do it) is "contributing" to anything. But in his mind... and the minds of far too many.... it's technically a job, so it is somehow good. Ridiculous. So every now and then he'll bring up a question like "What do you plan to DO with your life? Are you always going to be a lazy lump?" and I always wanna go bash my face against a tree for 20 minutes to knock the stupid out of my ears. Even more idiotic, the game development experience I've got is often considered by people to not be "real" work. Why? Because it was contracted work for an independent developer, and there was no big corporation involved, and everyone just KNOWS that all jobs involve a big company of some sort, right? That's so illogical that Spock from Star Trek would just violently detonate if he were to hear it.

And that's how it is. Not just for school or work, but for alot of society's arbitrary gibberish. But as you say, most of us here are outsiders by default, and tend not to give a fart about any of that nonsense, because it isnt logical. Because it seems silly. And we have a tendency to just do our own loopy things to begin with.

And that all leads to the conflict with authority. Particularly in school... there's a reason why many on the spectrum end up in "special-ed" classes. It's a bloody stupid reason, but a reason nonetheless.

Anytime I try to explain ANY of this to anyone I know in person, they look at me as if I just sneezed out a whole bunch of eyeballs. You can SEE them having a mental bluescreen moment.

"Sneezed out a whole bunch of eyeballs", I think I've had enough caffeine today.

Ugh, I don’t even need to reply to your message, it’s so complete and spot-on. It’s always amazed and sickened me how people define themselves, actually define themselves, by how they make money. It’s nothing short of macabre. And like you rather said, if “a large number” doesn’t appear in your bank account every two weeks, then you’re supposed to be a failure in life. I mean what in the Sam Hill?! I truly believe that the real purpose of school is to break your spirit. I was just talking to a friend about this the other day. In elementary school, you learn to obey. In middle school, you learn to conform. And by high school, they’ve got you - and you are supposed to decide which slave career you “want” to choose (i.e. which field or corporation will benefit from your labor).

Do you read at all, by chance? Because there’s a book you absolutely must get. It’s called The New Me by Halle Butler. It’s The Catcher in the Rye of the 21st Century. Also a collection of anarchist essays called The Abolition of Work by Bob Black (not the absurd modern incarnation of anarchism but real anarchist/nihilist philosophy). Reading your posts reminds me so strongly of both. If you like reading, you must get them.

Also, this song just about sums up what we’ve been talking about. I’m not a Beatles or John Lennon fan, but this song completely nails it.

 

[Progster]

In elementary school, you learn to obey. In middle school, you learn to conform. And by high school, they’ve got you - and you are supposed to decide which slave career you “want” to choose (i.e. which field or corporation will benefit from your labor).

Obey, conform, consume...

 

[Jumpback]

Have people seen “one flew over the cuckoo’s nest”? Authority figures torments can cause someone mildly off track to become completely unwell.

Like just let McMurphy watch the World Series

 

[SimplyWandering]

I have no problem with authority. I have a problem when people either don't follow the rules that they put in place or claim that it doesn't apply to everyone (In other words, hypocrisy.)

 

[Au Naturel]

There are very few jobs out there where you are hired entirely to achieve a goal or produce a product. (Those tend to be freelance or subcontracted work.) Most positions are where one is hired to do what one is told. To make the boss happy with your performance, not necessarily to perform well in your own eyes. The boss's smile is as much your product as the widget you're working on. To the extent I could subordinate the urge to do it "my way" I was happy and to the extent I could not, I was miserable.

Everyone has to decide for themselves when a manager becomes abusive or brown-nosing becomes exessive. But keeping the boss happy is an important end in itself. That is the way of the world.

 

[VictorR]

I have no problem with authority unless, as with many others, the person occupying the office is telling me to do something blatantly 1) dumb, 2) illegal, 3) that is for the primary purpose of impressing their boss, or some combination thereof, in which case I will quickly lose respect for them.

 

[PastelPetals]

Yes I do.
For three main reasons:
1. I have trouble following rules that make no sense (So I would never pull a fire alarm without a fire but for school sitting a desk or following a dress code is harder)
2. I have trouble understanding hierarchies like in my head unless there is some reason you would know more about something then me you are equal to me. That has caused some issues.
3. I have had many bad experiences with authority so I have minimal trust in them to care about me and have my best interests in mind.

 

[Transgressivecharm]

You know, I actually saw a video related to the school thing recently.

And it said pretty much that. Supposedly, the original purpose of the basic school system/structure/ideas was to prepare students for the sorts of jobs that were most common at the time: Factory work. It wasnt meant to give them incredible worldly knowledge. It was just about preparing them for that specific existence.

And because people are dumber than a sack of hammers and tend to simply do things because "that's how it's done", the system was never changed. Boy does it show. It's SO bad that it makes kids specifically want to NOT learn. Show them something, and say that they can learn things from that something, and you've instantly lost them. Because it's like school to them, and school is inherently bad. I think we've all been there. Even without things like the bully aspect, and stuff of that nature... it still all just sucked.

I dunno about everyone else, but I learned pretty much nothing over all of those years. I credit school with teaching me exactly three things: 1: reading. 2: writing. And number 2 later became 3: typing.

And that's seriously it. My family seems to think I'm oh-so-smart and know everything, but it's not that. It's that I didnt even TRY in school, because I saw it as a nonsensical waste of time. So, dont try at all in class, become knowledgable, that was the sequence. Which sounds totally backwards, but it isnt. It means that I just paid attention to other sources of info instead, instead of wasting mental space. Heck, it's why I learned computers (they didnt even teach that in school back then).

Really, if school was truly about learning, they'd try to make it interesting and fun. Instead, they just lecture and give homework (because yeah, taking away a kid's fun time at home is REALLY going to glue them to the lessons). All because "that's how it's done".

The entire system is an example of the sort of nonsense that authority can be, when a lack of proper logic is involved.

"I can read your mind" - Alan Parson's Project
Thought of this lyric whilst reading your post. My family thinks I'm a smarty pants. They'd have to scrape their jaws up off the pavement if they met a lot of you people. Oh the irony. *has a sad*

 

[Jumpback]

I have no problem with authority. I have a problem when people either don't follow the rules that they put in place or claim that it doesn't apply to everyone (In other words, hypocrisy.)

I just wanted to sort of point out somewhere that I don’t think that the real problem is about crosswalks and speed limits and so on, these things always have some degree of rationality.

The issue is with far greater things such as societal messages and power and control of those in authority, and the sticks and carrots systems that always exist for rewarding compliance and punishing non compliance, and just how consistently people tend to comply

Game theory is all about such things as is , as is proganda or marketing or having dominant control of media or being the most influential advocacy group or who has control of university research and on and on.

WWII era Germans just complied and aggressively agreed with evil not because racism is some special thing, they complied and aggressively agreed because one side dominated everything and compliance was rewarded and non compliance was punished. Nazi propaganda minister, Goebels was actually highly influenced by Jewish American, Edward Bernays, who convinced women to start smoking because cigarettes were “torches of freedom” and so on.

I don’t think that the issue is that people are stupid, I think that for most people, putting forth effort to attempt to understand when authority figures know more and may punish them seems like a poor use of time, and unless issues apply to them directly and rather severely, all effort seems like inefficient effort which should be avoided. Plus not agreeing with dominant messages results in consequences and reprocussions anyway

But I do not have the ease others have, all of my adult traumas and difficulties are politically inconvenient and I cannot find a way to be normal and just look out for my own self interests, so I have to look up every single thing, which causes far more issues with authorities since my issues are massively inconvenient and I end up both not being able to turn desire to work things out off or turn off the drive to just focus on myself instead of becoming sort of highly educated about whatever issue is bothering me

So, anyway, agreeing with things like traffic laws, I have no real issues with. It’s everything else about sticks and carrots to reward and punish the hoi polloi which I find challenging to accept