Does this analogy fit you?

[tducey]

I think Image B is the one that best represents us as Autistics.

 

[Judge]

Hume and recently the neuropsychologist Antonio Domasio argue that emotion and reason are contiguous with one another. That rational decision making is predicated on emotional processes, that the distinction between emotion and reason is impossible to maintain. And that in all decisions, emotions are crucial to preference and knowledge and rationalizing all costs and benefits. (Damasio 1994)
I tend to agree.

Interesting.

From what I see it may appear that Antonio Damasio believes such observations transcend any considerations of autistic versus non-autistic people.

 

[Nervous Rex]

That fits me. The logic and emotional sides don't communicate that well. I often have to observe myself and my behavior to figure out my own emotions, because I don't "feel" them (or notice that I feel them?), but they still affect my behavior.

I compare my logic and emotions to the pilot and copilot in a cockpit. In normal people, they work side-by-side. In my airplane, there's a wall between them, so sometimes they don't know what the other one is trying to do and they wind up fighting for control.

 

[Rasputin]

Seriously, what Varzar's analogy may be reflecting is his personality type. My Myers-Briggs personality type is INTJ. Introverted, Intuitive, Thinking, and Judging. My preference for Thinking over Feeling is so strong that I often offend sensitive, feeling, more emotional types by my preference towards pure logic. My wife finds this detestable, and just yesterday told me I am the coldest unfeeling person she knows.

What the analogy does not account for is the hypersensitivity I have to light, sounds and touch. Today at work I had to leave because I can literally hear electrical surging through wiring at work on the eleventh floor when they are running batch computer jobs on the first floor . The sound was high pitched and unbearable to me. I have to sleep with a mask to block out all light, and can be awakened from sleep by even the slightest sounds. I keep the blinds closed at home, and this drives my wife crazy. I am bothered by nearby conversations which I find distracting, and therefore I work in isolation. My wife's family is very affectionate and like hugging and kissing on greeting family who visit their home. I offend them because I dislike being hugged and my body stiffens up in anticipation. In college I could not take notes because I did not know how to discern between important points and extraneous information. Luckily I have a photographic memory and remember everything I read or hear, and did not need to take notes.

I don't know how one can discern autistic traits from natural personality traits, without accounting for sensory issues and repetitive behaviors. In my case Varzar's analogy fits me because that is my personality. It is possible that my personality helped me in masking all these years, but I can tell you that masking did not fool my wife. She can not understand my behavior, and the last 28 years has taken a serious toll on our relationship.

 

[Crossbreed]

Best case scenario, my anger will move me, but in such a way that "busts" a (correctly-identified) guilty party, while remaining benign to a (mis-identified) innocent party. (A passive-aggressive response is good for that.)

One of my sons brought home some prescription drugs that he wasn't supposed to have.

1. I scanned them into my computer so I could blow them up to see what they were [25mg Seroquel].
2. I brought him into the police station to make it clear that we did not support this.
3. The police chief pretended not to know what they were and would not act on it. He also refused my scan.
4. I sent a letter to (his boss) the district attorney to the effect of,
   "I know that you can't report to me regarding departmental business, but even if you can't, you need to look into this incident."
   ----------------------
5. Two weeks later, this police chief announced his retirement. (He even gave me some warnings about "certain people" in the community.)

I could think of some justifiable scenarios for why he acted the way he did. I figured that, if he was acting in good faith, the inquiry at #4 would have ended in "Atta boy. Keep up the good work!" No harm; no foul.

 

[Aspychata]

Best case scenario, my anger will move me, but in such a way that "busts" a (correctly-identified) guilty party, while remaining benign to a (mis-identified) innocent party. (A passive-aggressive response is good for that.)

One of my sons brought home some prescription drugs that he wasn't supposed to have.

1. I scanned them into my computer so I could blow them up to see what they were [25mg Seroquel].
2. I brought him into the police station to make it clear that we did not support this.
3. The police chief pretended not to know what they were and would not act on it. He also refused my scan.
4. I sent a letter to (his boss) the district attorney to the effect of,
   "I know that you can't report to me regarding departmental business, but even if you can't, you need to look into this incident."
   ----------------------
5. Two weeks later, this police chief announced his retirement. (He even gave me some warnings about "certain people" in the community.)

I could think of some justifiable scenarios for why he acted the way he did. I figured that, if he was acting in good faith, the inquiry at #4 would have ended in "Atta boy. Keep up the good work!" No harm; no foul.

That's really surprising. Then we wonder why our kids become addicted. It's a highly profitable business, the best customers are young people who are targeted. Think it's remarkable that your son brought this to you. Not sure as a parent how l would have handled this. Not sure if l would go to the police station. But l know l would have a very serious talk with my child.

 

[Judge]

I could think of some justifiable scenarios for why he acted the way he did. I figured that, if he was acting in good faith, the inquiry at #4 would have ended in "Atta boy. Keep up the good work!" No harm; no foul.

Yeah. Interesting to speculate what was really going on that they may have not wanted to discuss in real time or otherwise.

 

[Crossbreed]

Think it's remarkable that your son brought this to you.

He brought them to my wife, on the sly. She has a prescription, but the surrounding circumstances were shady.

 

[Aspychata]

I think this question started to bother me because l am upset l truly don't have a confident pact answer.
I know to operate from logic because anything else just seems to cause huge issues for me. That's the spectrum part of me saying logic is your friend. Emotionally you are clueless and have no right to be on that helix. I allow myself to project emotion but then l step back and observe because sometimes it is taken completely wrong. So l have become a tab more passive and that emotional thought process is more transparent and my logical helix observes and polices that helix. This is the best way to describe it. So l allow my emotional helix to visit and if l determine the situtation safe, the logical part is on hiatus until presented with a problematic issue and bounces right back into focus. But l almost always operate from logic because of childhood. And l feel like Spock on Star trek that if l don't show emotion, l leave people confused. When people can't figure you out or pigeonhole you for their comfort level then you are upsetting to them. So you have to mask at a very early age. So logic IS the operating system, emotion is a random app that sometimes is dead-on and once in awhile the program crashes because the operating system has all the permission boxes checked for control. But l am not a cold or uncaring person, this is just who l am.

 

[SusanLR]

I'm INTJ personality type also.
In some testing for employment it showed 96% logic/thinking, 4% emotion.
So I would say that is pretty strong on the B side.
My emotions can get out of hand in a melt down or panic attack.
If something triggers the primordial fight or flight response to that degree,
fear or anger can be powerful, but, as other's have stated, logic is still dominant or I would be
in jail too.

 

[the_tortoise]

Doesn’t fit me. I am diagnosed autistic and I think the separation of emotion and logic in human decision making is a false dichotomy regardless of neurotype.

Emotion can be an important variable being factored into a logical thought process and logic is often involved in the perceptions and interpretations that give rise to emotions - emotions can arguably be the result of logical thought processes....also, emotion can influence perception of non-emotion variables being considered in a logical thought process, often without conscious awareness of it happening at the time (e.g. emotion can influence what variables are seen and considered before logic is applied - like it influences the premises you are working with (I don’t have the vocabulary for this, so I hope it makes sense and that I am not using words incorrectly)).

Logic and emotion are not opposites, in my view - I cannot even understand the concept of them being opposites.

 

[Varzar]

Seriously, what Varzar's analogy may be reflecting is his personality type. My Myers-Briggs personality type is INTJ. Introverted, Intuitive, Thinking, and Judging. My preference for Thinking over Feeling is so strong that I often offend sensitive, feeling, more emotional types by my preference towards pure logic. My wife finds this detestable, and just yesterday told me I am the coldest unfeeling person she knows.

What the analogy does not account for is the hypersensitivity I have to light, sounds and touch. Today at work I had to leave because I can literally hear electrical surging through wiring at work on the eleventh floor when they are running batch computer jobs on the first floor . The sound was high pitched and unbearable to me. I have to sleep with a mask to block out all light, and can be awakened from sleep by even the slightest sounds. I keep the blinds closed at home, and this drives my wife crazy. I am bothered by nearby conversations which I find distracting, and therefore I work in isolation. My wife's family is very affectionate and like hugging and kissing on greeting family who visit their home. I offend them because I dislike being hugged and my body stiffens up in anticipation. In college I could not take notes because I did not know how to discern between important points and extraneous information. Luckily I have a photographic memory and remember everything I read or hear, and did not need to take notes.

I don't know how one can discern autistic traits from natural personality traits, without accounting for sensory issues and repetitive behaviors. In my case Varzar's analogy fits me because that is my personality. It is possible that my personality helped me in masking all these years, but I can tell you that masking did not fool my wife. She can not understand my behavior, and the last 28 years has taken a serious toll on our relationship.

Interesting idea.. And I'll have to give this little analogy to some NTs I know to see where they fit.. I don't think they'll universally choose A, but I suspect it'll be the majority..
At first glance though, I'm not convinced that what I'm identifying is a personality trait..
My wife and I are both INTP, but she definitely identifies with A, where I identify with B...

My issue with the Meyer-Briggs references I've seen on here before is that they are too vague..
There was a thread on something like, "most AS fit either INTx or INFx".. Well.. that's the same as saying INxx, and you've now got 8/16 of the MB personality types included.. It's too generic..

Otherwise, so much of what you describe certainly sounds familiar.. I'm don't have the same sensitivities (slightly sensitive to light, and quite sensitive to food texture).. But hugging is very awkward for me as well.. I rarely took notes in school. My wife inherited my textbooks in college and noted they were "like brand new".. I also tend to remember everything I read or hear.. So I did well in school & college despite not really trying. Does your wife know about your AS?.. It has helped my relationship with my wife dramatically now that she knows & understands. We've been together for 22 years, the last 10-15 have been a lot of arguing until the AS revelation helped explain a lot of what was going on with us..

 

[Rasputin]

Interesting idea.. And I'll have to give this little analogy to some NTs I know to see where they fit.. I don't think they'll universally choose A, but I suspect it'll be the majority..
At first glance though, I'm not convinced that what I'm identifying is a personality trait..
My wife and I are both INTP, but she definitely identifies with A, where I identify with B...

My issue with the Meyer-Briggs references I've seen on here before is that they are too vague..
There was a thread on something like, "most AS fit either INTx or INFx".. Well.. that's the same as saying INxx, and you've now got 8/16 of the MB personality types included.. It's too generic..

Otherwise, so much of what you describe certainly sounds familiar.. I'm don't have the same sensitivities (slightly sensitive to light, and quite sensitive to food texture).. But hugging is very awkward for me as well.. I rarely took notes in school. My wife inherited my textbooks in college and noted they were "like brand new".. I also tend to remember everything I read or hear.. So I did well in school & college despite not really trying. Does your wife know about your AS?.. It has helped my relationship with my wife dramatically now that she knows & understands. We've been together for 22 years, the last 10-15 have been a lot of arguing until the AS revelation helped explain a lot of what was going on with us..

I shared the AS with her, but I have not noticed an improvement in our relationship. She now pokes fun at me because of it. We have been married 28 years, 23 of which have been very challenging. And all of our difficulties can be explained by the AS.

 

[Varzar]

I think this question started to bother me because l am upset l truly don't have a confident pact answer.
I know to operate from logic because anything else just seems to cause huge issues for me. That's the spectrum part of me saying logic is your friend. Emotionally you are clueless and have no right to be on that helix. I allow myself to project emotion but then l step back and observe because sometimes it is taken completely wrong. So l have become a tab more passive and that emotional thought process is more transparent and my logical helix observes and polices that helix. This is the best way to describe it. So l allow my emotional helix to visit and if l determine the situtation safe, the logical part is on hiatus until presented with a problematic issue and bounces right back into focus. But l almost always operate from logic because of childhood. And l feel like Spock on Star trek that if l don't show emotion, l leave people confused. When people can't figure you out or pigeonhole you for their comfort level then you are upsetting to them. So you have to mask at a very early age. So logic IS the operating system, emotion is a random app that sometimes is dead-on and once in awhile the program crashes because the operating system has all the permission boxes checked for control. But l am not a cold or uncaring person, this is just who l am.

The reference to "Spock-like" thinking came up when I was talking to my neighbour years ago about how I thought & felt.. It was then he asked me if I was AS... And, at the time, I denied it.. Cause all I knew of AS at the time was what I'd seen of the low-functioning, non self-advocating side of the spectrum..

 

[Varzar]

I shared the AS with her, but I have not noticed an improvement in our relationship. She now pokes fun at me because of it. We have been married 28 years, 23 of which have been very challenging. And all of our difficulties can be explained by the AS.

That's unfortunate.. We also went to counselling last year.. I don't know if that's an option for you or not.. I don't think that helped with the AS so much, I do think perhaps it helped get us both on the same page that we both really need to take things more seriously between us.. Helped improve our attitude towards each other instead of continuing in the same rut of poking at each other..

 

[Rasputin]

Interesting idea.. And I'll have to give this little analogy to some NTs I know to see where they fit.. I don't think they'll universally choose A, but I suspect it'll be the majority..
At first glance though, I'm not convinced that what I'm identifying is a personality trait..
My wife and I are both INTP, but she definitely identifies with A, where I identify with B...

My issue with the Meyer-Briggs references I've seen on here before is that they are too vague..
There was a thread on something like, "most AS fit either INTx or INFx".. Well.. that's the same as saying INxx, and you've now got 8/16 of the MB personality types included.. It's too generic..

Otherwise, so much of what you describe certainly sounds familiar.. I'm don't have the same sensitivities (slightly sensitive to light, and quite sensitive to food texture).. But hugging is very awkward for me as well.. I rarely took notes in school. My wife inherited my textbooks in college and noted they were "like brand new".. I also tend to remember everything I read or hear.. So I did well in school & college despite not really trying. Does your wife know about your AS?.. It has helped my relationship with my wife dramatically now that she knows & understands. We've been together for 22 years, the last 10-15 have been a lot of arguing until the AS revelation helped explain a lot of what was going on with us..

From what I have read, your type B analogy seems consistent the the AS diagnosis. I have difficulty separating the Myers Briggs stuff, because INTJ seems to overlap with AS traits. The only differentiator seems to be the sensory issues which you also have in different ways.

 

[Rasputin]

The reference to "Spock-like" thinking came up when I was talking to my neighbour years ago about how I thought & felt.. It was then he asked me if I was AS... And, at the time, I denied it.. Cause all I knew of AS at the time was what I'd seen of the low-functioning, non self-advocating side of the spectrum..

This is funny, because in college I used to identify with the Spock character. That should have suggested something, but I had not even heard of Asperger's. All I knew was that advanced calculus and differential equations were easy to me, and I could solve problems in my head when other students could not even grasp concepts.

 

[Varzar]

Doesn’t fit me. I am diagnosed autistic and I think the separation of emotion and logic in human decision making is a false dichotomy regardless of neurotype.

Emotion can be an important variable being factored into a logical thought process and logic is often involved in the perceptions and interpretations that give rise to emotions - emotions can arguably be the result of logical thought processes....also, emotion can influence perception of non-emotion variables being considered in a logical thought process, often without conscious awareness of it happening at the time (e.g. emotion can influence what variables are seen and considered before logic is applied - like it influences the premises you are working with (I don’t have the vocabulary for this, so I hope it makes sense and that I am not using words incorrectly)).

Logic and emotion are not opposites, in my view - I cannot even understand the concept of them being opposites.

I think maybe I wasn't clear enough in my explanation of the analogy. I wasn't trying to suggest they are opposites, nor that it's an either/or situation with emotions & logic.

For example, emotions are sometimes taken into account for decision making for me... But, it's a choice to include them or not in my decision making process (unless they are very strong emotions, in which case I'm probably not in control anymore).. So, it's like there's this separation there, where one side seems more in control than the other. But I'm not saying they are separate or opposites or that they don't still attempt to work together. Hopefully more clear?

My wife on the other hand, from her own accounts, has no choice in including emotion with her decision making. They are there, and interconnected, and she can't separate them.. In essence, she can't make a decision without emotion..

I liked @Aspychata's analogy with the logic operating system holding all the permissions for an emotion app too.

 

[Varzar]

This is funny, because in college I used to identify with the Spock character. That should have suggested something, but I had not even heard of Asperger's. All I knew was that advanced calculus and differential equations were easy to me, and I could solve problems in my head when other students could not even grasp concepts.

Interestingly perhaps, Calculus was a wall for me.. All math up until Calculus I could do with no problem at all. I struggled with differential calculus, but got through.. integral calculus I just couldn't understand at all.. I also tried to take Probability and Statistics (which is effectively applied integral calculus), and was completely inept at that as well. After much studying, I wrote a quiz in class, thought I'd nailed it.. Got it back with 1/10... Panic ensued..

 

[Rasputin]

This is funny, because in college I used to identify with the Spock character. That should have suggested something, but I had not even heard of Asperger's. All I knew was that advanced calculus and differential equations were easy to me, and I could solve problems in my head when other students could not even grasp concepts.

To add further insult to the professor and students, I missed most of my advanced calculus classes including the midterm exam, because I was working. Because I had a 4.0 GPA, the professor allowed me to take the final exam with the condition that whatever my grade was on that exam that was my grade for the course. I made a "A" on the final, and was the only student who got a "A" for the course.