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Electric cars...

Would you buy an electric car?

  • No thank you

  • Sign me up!

  • If I must

  • I don't drive, thus I really don't care anyway

  • I am interested, but until there is more reliable technology for long highway trips


Results are only viewable after voting.
I still don't think Ford or electric cars can be called a start-up. Non of it is new. And the difference now is that they are putting all their eggs in the new 'green shift' basket. Like many others. And that has more to do with politics than business. It's almost a religious and political movement at this point. But Ford is a business. I just see it as a bad business move for Ford. Not so sure it will be a winner. I have seen what happened to the companies here that went all in on the green shift, it didn't go well. Most of them can't survive now without subsidies because it doesn't work. Just in the past month two major billion dollar business projects have been shut down and they were hailed as the next big thing. But it just doesn't work, they lose too much and make nothing. It's a lot of fluff, subsidies and pretty words and then it comes crashing down. But anyway, hopefully I'm wrong. I like Ford, it's so American. :) If I had more money, I would have a very big Ford collection.
I keep hoping that a better-informed opposition would get us better choices in cars, but maybe superstition-level passion reaches a lot more people.
 
I keep hoping that a better-informed opposition would get us better choices in cars, but maybe superstition-level passion reaches a lot more people.
There's a lot of sentiment attached to the gasoline car--for a lot of reasons. It's a lot like clipper ships or the steam locomotive. I want an electric car quite a lot, but I still spent the last few days patching up my old gas-burner--transmission flush actually got it really hauling ass today; I made about 90mph on a test run which is about as fast as I've ever gone except when I went up in an airplane.

Gasoline is ingrained into the fabric of the motor imagination and current-day electric cars are definitely not inspiring that very active imagination for a lot of folks who have an interest in machinery. You don't have electric cars that have the appeal of the gasoline motor--electrics with their plasticky body shells and bizarre curves and lighting end up looking like a bad combination between a Cuisinart, a gaming PC, and some kind of sex toy the Vatican would try to ban if they knew about it. The Prius, on paper, is a cool car--but it's the definition of uncool, right up there with the Pontiac Aztek and Chrysler PT Cruiser. And don't get me started on new electric cars--not everyone likes the dashboard to be made out of basically an iPad.

I like Ford Model T's. They're the definition of lousy but they are just so weirdly homemade-looking. I want to drive one. But if I had to live with it I'd take the money and go buy a horse instead--if I'm going to put that much work into a substandard means of transportation I might as well make a pet out of it.

Even my very worn out Toyota Corolla is fun to work on--it's an objectively terrible car; it's falling apart and my friends have described it as:

"your car sounds like it runs on nightmares."
(sad 12-volt cranking noises) "--are you going to get it started or should I call us all an Uber?"
"why would you replace the engine when you could get a newer car?"
"ooh, I can see the ground through it."
"--is that moss?"
"I don't like it, it's full of ants."
"- did you drive that here?"
"What is THAT?"
"I can't believe you still have that thing."

I would gladly put it on bricks and turn it into a hen-house, and have threatened to do so--but I can't bring myself to junk it yet, for a sort of silly sentimentality. It was not just the first car I had, but the first car I ever saw--I was brought home from the hospital in that thing when I was born and I will probably use it as the get-away car when I marry, even though it smells like dust & decaying plush and handles like a farm tractor.

Gasoline cars are a cultural thing for people. As @Forest Cat said, "I like Ford, it's so American," even though Fords themselves are assembled from U.S. and imported components and sold world-wide the individuality, the personality, the perversely mechanical Fordness of them is rather impressively American in a strange way--Henry Ford, weird as he was in personal life, was a sort of mythological figure--like Odin on Sleipnir, he rode into history on twenty vanadium-steel horses under a ripped canvas top, and never really left the popular consciousness. He didn't just give us the car; he gave us the crappy used econoboxes, DIY'ed hot-rods, and sagging farm trucks that remain the prime mover of transportation for Real America, at least in an ideal sense.

My problem isn't with electric cars. It's that electric cars aren't cool yet. I know Teslas exist & see them often; they are eminently forgettable. They look like bars of soap when the lettering wears off. We need electric cars that are deliberately cheap and crappy, simple, repairable with baling wire and determination--cars you can run off the road, get out, and put back on the road. We need cars with stripped-down interiors and minimalist design, not built for design students to have Rotomolded in plastic but something that actually feels like the gearhead's design of a car--and since that varies from car nerd to car nerd, how about something that can be hot-rodded with welders and wrenches instead of a laptop? Something that won't "brick your operating system" if you chop it 3 inches and give it some stance?

And all this is why my favorite classic vehicle remains the "roadster" bicycle as it is just a few pieces of gas-pipe, a handful of ball bearings, and two 28" wheels with high-pressure clincher tires. Brakes on it are a suggestion, steering is vague, value is so low you can park it without locking it up--and going places feels like freedom.

My next car will be electric, but I am still going to build that sucker from scratch. They don't make a car I want, so the old four-door sedan stays on the road until I can get a chance to weld up a frame and hit the road in something made with real steel and leaf-springs, a steering wheel with gears instead of a servo motor, tires that I can change myself on the side of the road (because where I drive you can't always get a tow-truck), and no A/C or power windows or massaging heated seat. It needs to be 3/4 the size of a Corolla. Self-driving, for a lot of people, means you take a steering-wheel and drive it yourself!
 
Tesla has shown they can make a profit selling EVs. The other companies better get going or Tesla will be the only game in town. Many years ago some guys looked at the adoption curve for EVs and compared it to the adoption curve of other disruptive technologies. They came up with 2026 as the year that ICE vehicles sales would collapse. I thought that seemed too optimistic at the time but now it doesn't seem that far off.
 
They came up with 2026 as the year that ICE vehicles sales would collapse. I thought that seemed too optimistic at the time but now it doesn't seem that far off.

That seems very unlikely, when considering we don't have the infrastructure to charge all those electric cars. Or the raw materials we need to build all those electric cars and the infrastructure. Or technology that is good enough to build good reliable electric cars.
 
I didn't say it will go smoothly. I think there will be a day, very soon, when people start saying to themselves "what the %^&* is wrong with me, I'm driving an obsolete POC from the last century".

Reliable? My Chevy Bolt has been the most reliable car I ever owned (not counting recalls that never caused a problem). This includes a Honda Odyssey, Toyota Prius, VW Passat (so I had to put out a fire under the hood in the driveway once, nobody's perfect ).
 
I didn't say it will go smoothly. I think there will be a day, very soon, when people start saying to themselves "what the %^&* is wrong with me, I'm driving an obsolete POC from the last century".

Reliable? My Chevy Bolt has been the most reliable car I ever owned (not counting recalls that never caused a problem). This includes a Honda Odyssey, Toyota Prius, VW Passat (so I had to put out a fire under the hood in the driveway once, nobody's perfect ).

I would actually say it's not possible. I'll bet a dollar that it's not possible to get anywhere near that goal by 2026. Maybe 2126, maybe.
 
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I think there will be a day, very soon, when people start saying to themselves "what the %^&* is wrong with me, I'm driving an obsolete POC from the last century".

That's a day that came- and went a very long time ago.

That's essentially what Edsel Ford had been telling his father Henry for a number of years. Until Henry Ford finally accepted that the Model T was a car of the past and created the Model "A" Ford of the future.

- That was in 1927.

Fast forward to the present, and I've had my car now for nearly six years. Yet the same dealer I bought it from has buried me in e-mails for the last four years encouraging me to get a new one. Go figure. :rolleyes:

Worse still.....What ???? You aren't running Microsoft Windows 11 ???? What is wrong with you ??? :p
 
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The bicycle motor guy did go into production but the Dhruv Vidyut motor hasn't made it to the USA yet probably because we don't have quite as many old roadster bicycles here like India does.

I still want nothing to do with a Tesla so I went hunting a donor car for an EV. Found a rusted-out pile of what was a sky-blue Nash convertible for very little money sinking into someone's back yard. It's ruined but I should have a fixer upper first, and once it's solid, a base for an EV conversion. It has a 3spd transmission and a 44" rear axle track which is the same width as a lot of golf carts. This is smaller than a VW Beetle.

I think it looks like Richard Scarry drew it for a picture book. Supposedly Pininfarina did the design. Also supposedly Nash-Kelvinator also made refrigerators, which it heavily resembles.

17174582658436385172910119427568.jpg


Axles are a nice size, springs and shocks couldnt be simpler, and it's fitted with manual steering. Or I can fix it up and drive it on the original gasoline engine while I see about converting the old Corolla. Already that is a bigger car and may have more room for batteries.
 
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The bicycle motor guy did go into production but the Dhruv Vidyut motor hasn't made it to the USA yet probably because we don't have quite as many old roadster bicycles here like India does.

I still want nothing to do with a Tesla so I went hunting a donor car for an EV. Found a rusted-out pile of what was a sky-blue Nash convertible for very little money sinking into someone's back yard. It's ruined but I should have a fixer upper first, and once it's solid, a base for an EV conversion. It has a 3spd transmission and a 44" rear axle track which is the same width as a lot of golf carts. This is smaller than a VW Beetle.

I think it looks like Richard Scarry drew it for a picture book. Supposedly Pininfarina did the design. Also supposedly Nash-Kelvinator also made refrigerators, which it heavily resembles.

Axles are a nice size, springs and shocks couldnt be simpler, and it's fitted with manual steering. Or I can fix it up and drive it on the original gasoline engine while I see about converting the old Corolla. Already that is a bigger car and may have more room for batteries.

This VW Beetle is an electric conversion, a local guy built it... Much faster than a standard air cooled Beetle :p... But at least in Alberta there aren't very many electric conversions I've seen, I've heard it's getting more common in Europe...

Electric Car 01.jpg
 
The other companies better get going or Tesla will be the only game in town.
In Australia Tesla doesn't have such a big share of the market, they have pretty stiff competition from European manufacturers, and all that's expected to change in the near future now that China has 3 brands on the market. BYD is starting to gain traction here now.

I still want nothing to do with a Tesla so I went hunting a donor car for an EV. Found a rusted-out pile of what was a sky-blue Nash convertible for very little money sinking into someone's back yard.
That would look really cool when finished but I imagine it to be a bit of a nightmare project to work on. If it was me I'd be going for something a bit lighter and with more modern suspension.
 
I get the impression that the "novelty" of Tesla has worn out some time ago. That they're just another player in a market that is nowhere near its prime.

Meanwhile the oil industry continues to demonize anyone suggesting society inevitably convert to electrical vehicles. I'm not particularly keen or intent on even buying one given my age and expectations of the car I own, but I've always been rather keen on how the oil industry wants to keep their dominance in the economy indefinitely. Understandable, but environmentally toxic.

Particularly in having owned lucrative stock in Chevron and Occidental Petroleum.

While I suspect science, government and the private sector will eventually iron out all the kinks of this equation, I'd prefer to see it happen after my departure from this world. My bad.
 
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I get the impression that the "novelty" of Tesla has worn out some time ago. That they're just another player in a market that is nowhere near its prime.
The absolute 100% biggest hindrance to Tesla sales - they went down the same route as IBM and used different electrical plugs to everyone else in the world. So Tesla chargers Only fit Tesla cars and if you have a Tesla you can Only use a Tesla charger.

This seems to be common in the US but around the rest of the world people won't accept it. Buying a car that can only use less than 1/4 of the available charge points just doesn't make sense.
 
The absolute 100% biggest hindrance to Tesla sales - they went down the same route as IBM and used different electrical plugs to everyone else in the world. So Tesla chargers Only fit Tesla cars and if you have a Tesla you can Only use a Tesla charger.

This seems to be common in the US but around the rest of the world people won't accept it. Buying a car that can only use less than 1/4 of the available charge points just doesn't make sense.

Proprietary technologies strike again. I am so sick of it all. Everyone clamoring to become the next monopoly. None of the biggest players wants to compete in the marketplace any more. They just want to own it outright.

When government is afraid to tame them, as they are considered to be "too big to fail". :mad:
 
In Australia Tesla doesn't have such a big share of the market, they have pretty stiff competition from European manufacturers, and all that's expected to change in the near future now that China has 3 brands on the market. BYD is starting to gain traction here now.
I'm not sure but as of May 14, 2024, there's now a 25% tariff on EV batteries and of course our car manufacturing companies are scared to have competitive Chinese vehicles on the market.

Australia has always gotten interesting automobiles we never see here, and I'm sure the BYD cars are neat to see up close! They look really interesting especially the e6 taxi cabs.

Having other electric options than just Tesla and Everything Else sounds pretty interesting for the casual car spotter.

That would look really cool when finished but I imagine it to be a bit of a nightmare project to work on. If it was me I'd be going for something a bit lighter and with more modern suspension.
These have a B series Austin engine weighing about 186kg fully dressed (410 lbs.), and the curb weight of a Nash Metropolitan is 810kg. or 1785 lbs. Not so bad really, down to around 1375lbs with the engine pulled, only slightly more than a loaded top-of-the-line EZGO golf cart.

Front axle is independent suspension but the rear is leaf springs on a straight axle making it really easy to drop a new rear end in (which could include, in its future, an electric axle) and lose the weight of the transmission, bell housing, and propshaft.

And yes, nightmare project all the way. The floors are gone and it's completely rusted, including the cross member holding up the transmission, but hey I'm going to get a chance to learn welding.
At least it's better structurally than the designs I was cooking up that had the body made up out of doped canvas?
 
I'm not sure but as of May 14, 2024, there's now a 25% tariff on EV batteries and of course our car manufacturing companies are scared to have competitive Chinese vehicles on the market.

Australia has always gotten interesting automobiles we never see here, and I'm sure the BYD cars are neat to see up close! They look really interesting especially the e6 taxi cabs.

Having other electric options than just Tesla and Everything Else sounds pretty interesting for the casual car spotter.


These have a B series Austin engine weighing about 186kg fully dressed (410 lbs.), and the curb weight of a Nash Metropolitan is 810kg. or 1785 lbs. Not so bad really, down to around 1375lbs with the engine pulled, only slightly more than a loaded top-of-the-line EZGO golf cart.

Front axle is independent suspension but the rear is leaf springs on a straight axle making it really easy to drop a new rear end in (which could include, in its future, an electric axle) and lose the weight of the transmission, bell housing, and propshaft.

And yes, nightmare project all the way. The floors are gone and it's completely rusted, including the cross member holding up the transmission, but hey I'm going to get a chance to learn welding.
At least it's better structurally than the designs I was cooking up that had the body made up out of doped canvas?
I think a better formula now would be to promote hybrids, high fuel economy without the limited range and long refueling times of an EV.
 
I have yet to learn to drive. Long story. However, when I do, I'd like to get an electric vehicle as the first vehicle I buy. Hopefully there will be good ones by the companies I trust - Honda, Nissan and Toyota when that time comes.
 
The bicycle motor guy did go into production but the Dhruv Vidyut motor hasn't made it to the USA yet probably because we don't have quite as many old roadster bicycles here like India does.

I still want nothing to do with a Tesla so I went hunting a donor car for an EV. Found a rusted-out pile of what was a sky-blue Nash convertible for very little money sinking into someone's back yard. It's ruined but I should have a fixer upper first, and once it's solid, a base for an EV conversion. It has a 3spd transmission and a 44" rear axle track which is the same width as a lot of golf carts. This is smaller than a VW Beetle.

I think it looks like Richard Scarry drew it for a picture book. Supposedly Pininfarina did the design. Also supposedly Nash-Kelvinator also made refrigerators, which it heavily resembles.

View attachment 130768

Axles are a nice size, springs and shocks couldnt be simpler, and it's fitted with manual steering. Or I can fix it up and drive it on the original gasoline engine while I see about converting the old Corolla. Already that is a bigger car and may have more room for batteries.
Could be a fun project, or at least interesting. My first car was a Fiat 850 Sport Spider. Really fun car to drive until it was brutally murdered in a sneak attack by an LTD. I always thought it would make a good EV conversion. Wish I still had it.
 
I'm not sure but as of May 14, 2024, there's now a 25% tariff on EV batteries and of course our car manufacturing companies are scared to have competitive Chinese vehicles on the market.
We abolished that sort of manufacturing protectionism back in the 80s, consumers were getting a raw deal and it was bad for the economy too.

It's a shame that Ford and Holden pulled out of Australia though, we only manufacture Japanese cars now. It meant that the classic Aussie Ute is no longer a thing which is a shame. We can still get Toyota utes but our markets have been flooded with US style Pickup Trucks which no one wants. Too big, too fuel hungry, poor suspension and handling, can't park them anywhere, impractical and useless.

690107a9bfbddb7be32d77fd5498f89b.jpg
 
For me, the overwhelming issue is that there is no good reason for a land vehicle to weigh more than it carries. People are paying to haul a ton or three of steel everywhere to haul their emotional baggage - carefully cultivated self-image signals and amplified fears. What I want is an electrified velomobile that can self-drive in the express lane of a highway, almost touching as if coupled in a train, while picking up a charge from the guard rail.
 
I don’t trust electric cars at all. Plus you really aren’t cutting down on pollution if you really think about it as you need to plug in the car in order to charge it and the plant that is generating the electricity necessary for the task is still giving off pollution as a result from the generators. And if one needs to go to the junkyard because it is totaled, that battery contains hazardous materials in it.
 

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