Electric cars...

[Mary Terry]

I just read in the Wall Street Journal that Tesla's have the highest crash rate of all cars in the US. Might have something to do with that enormous touch screen in the middle of the dashboard which is a driver distraction and not an easy and safe way for a driver to interface with the vehicle! The self-driving aspect is terrifying to me. I'd never, never trust that function in a car.

 

[Judge]

I just read in the Wall Street Journal that Tesla's have the highest crash rate of all cars in the US. Might have something to do with that enormous touch screen in the middle of the dashboard which is a driver distraction and not an easy and safe way for a driver to interface with the vehicle! The self-driving aspect is terrifying to me. I'd never, never trust that function in a car.

That's how the very popular Tesla company gets publicity here for auto accidents. When it is proved that the vehicle was set on a self-driving mode at the time of an accident. Luckily leaving most motorists embarrassed rather than dead.

But I find it insane to even allow any manufacturer to release this capability to the general public when it's painfully clear that the technology require much more research and development before turning it over to consumers. An issue that also goes beyond Tesla .

 

[Outdated]

That's how the very popular Tesla company gets publicity here for auto accidents. When it is proved that the vehicle was set on a self-driving mode at the time of an accident. Luckily leaving most motorists embarrassed rather than dead.

But I find it insane to even allow any manufacturer to release this capability to the general public when it's painfully clear that the technology require much more research and development before turning it over to consumers. An issue that also goes beyond Tesla .

Self driving cars are seen as counterproductive here. Police regularly conduct campaigns trying to get people to focus more attention on the roads, not less. It's a different story in the long haul sector though and we've been experimenting for many years with autonomous trains and road trains.

Overall it's been pretty successful and more mining companies are starting to use autonomous vehicles. There have been a couple of accidents involving autonomous trains but so far no incidents involving the big trucks.

https://www.mineralresources.com.au...g-autonomous-road-trains-achieve-world-first/

 

[Shevek]

Automatic shuttle busses are old news in Japan for large parking areas, and for moving material in factories and warehouses. All the success stories are about CONTROLLED ENVIRONMENTS. It would be easy and safe to take advantage of the express lanes on highways, where access is already limited, to run mixed traffic in trains with just a tiny clearance between units.

 

[Outdated]

All the success stories are about CONTROLLED ENVIRONMENTS.

That's where the thinking changed a little in Australia. Road trains weigh well over 100 ton, in an emergency situation they're way too heavy to try and take any evasive action, and the drivers that reflexively try end up dead. With or without drivers though, we don't let them go too far in to the big cities where there's just too many clowns on the roads. Very few idiots survive pulling out in front of one of them.

 

[Outdated]

News Flash:

After reading through this thread a bit I decided to look up progress on other technologies. The ammonia engine is here already, being built by Toyota. I'm not going to be in a rush to buy an electric car now.

https://carbuzz.com/news/toyota-developed-a-world-first-ammonia-powered-engine-90-cleaner-than-gas/

 

[vergil96]

I'm just not a fan of pollution with heavy metals, it's as bad as CO2 imo

Unpopular thing to say, but this is my opinion

 

[Outdated]

I'm just not a fan of pollution with heavy metals, it's as bad as CO2 imo

The exhaust is different forms of Nitrous Oxide which are dangerous gases, although they won't contribute to global warming. It's been well known for quite a few years now that Ammonia can be used as a fuel and it also has a much higher energy density than petroleum, meaning you get much better mileage out of a tank. The trick has been to work out a catalytic converter system that could deal with nitrous oxide. Now several countries around the world believe that they've got that issue sorted. We'll see.

This technology is going to be incredibly important to countries like Australia and Canada where we have vast distances of uninhabited landscape. Creating the infrastructure for electrical charge points in regions like that really isn't viable, and when you look at the trucks we use in Australia there's no way you're going to be able to supply sufficient electrical power to them in any practical fashion.

Our trucking and transport needs are why we never sign up to things like the Kyoto Agreement or the European Accord. To do so would be shooting ourselves in the foot.

 

[vergil96]

Oh, I'm sorry, I was referring to electric cars. There are heavy metals in the batteries, which have a limited lifespan. I still have to read the article(s?) you've posted about ammonia as fuel. Hydrogen looked promising, but it looks like it's being produced mostly from natural gas at the moment, and it requires CO2 emissions for production. Perhaps it will be plausible at some point in the future when space travel becomes easier, because hydrogen is the most common element in the universe.

Creating the infrastructure for electrical charge points in regions like that really isn't viable, and when you look at the trucks we use in Australia there's no way you're going to be able to supply sufficient electrical power to them in any practical fashion.

It's definitely an issue.

Other problems with batteries is that charging isn't terribly efficient (around 70%) and the power has to be produced somehow and in many countries the major power sources are fossil fuels or even coal, which would lead to almost 50% larger CO2 emissions.

 

[Outdated]

Other problems with batteries is that charging isn't terribly efficient (around 70%) and the power has to be produced somehow and in many countries the major power sources are fossil fuels or even coal, which would lead to almost 50% larger CO2 emissions.

That's a part of the equation a lot of people find convenient to ignore. It's the same story with Hydrogen. They get hydrogen by running extremely high voltages through water to separate hydrogen and oxygen molecules, this uses more energy than what you get back from the hydrogen when you burn it in an engine. It was never really viable.

Ammonia is cheap and easy to produce, a renewable fuel. And that's why there's so much negative publicity - it doesn't require mining companies and oil companies to supply it. Some farmers can even make their own.

 

[Outdated]

Australia has always gotten interesting automobiles we never see here....

Just gratuitous timing, I spotted this story in the news today:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-06...cle-car-echuca-motor-museum-auction/103944118
Australian cars were in some ways like a cross between European cars and American cars. European cars were too small and cramped and also underpowered, and American cars were colloquially called Yankee Land Barges. We had a lot of very similar styles to the US but made to suit our roads and conditions.

Fords made in Australia were not the same as Fords made in the US although from a distance they look very similar, the Aussie cars were smaller and had better suspension and running gear. Holdens were unique even though their parent company was GM. We also had Chargers here but not made by Dodge, they were made by Chrysler and once again looked similar to the US version but they were smaller and had better suspension.

[Edit] Cultural concepts affect car design too. As an example of different cultural concepts, in Britain the Ford Cortina was considered as a family sedan. In Australia that same Ford Cortina was considered an ideal car for single women, the hairdresser's car, there was no way you could keep using something that small once you had kids.

 

[Captain Jigglypuff]

I'm just not a fan of pollution with heavy metals, it's as bad as CO2 imo

Unpopular thing to say, but this is my opinion

You’re not wrong at all. The batteries of these all electric cars are something to be very concerned about. Like I said, these things depend on electricity to function and must get it from some source which is actually creating pollution to create the electricity that is necessary for the car to function. It is essentially an endless cycle of pollution.

 

[Judge]

I guess for a few of us, it's fair to say that we simply aren't there yet as to what form of energy is best for the most common and pervasive of uses, such as the automobile.

To continue to scientifically pursue more optimal alternatives, than settle on one which *might* have more liabilities than assets relative to the environment.

Electric vehicles? Fine. Lithium batteries? Not so much....

Though the entire state of Nevada just groaned at me for good rea$on.

 

[Outdated]

Though the entire state of Nevada just groaned at me for good rea$on.

We have two extravagantly wealthy mining magnates sitting on opposite sides of the fence here. Clive Palmer is more the old fashioned type that fights tooth and nail against any type of change or reform. He even started his own political party to try and fight against progression. Then we have Andrew Forrest who's really pushing the ammonia fuel technology and wants lithium mining to end. He currently has Deutsche Bahn trialing his ammonia diesel engines.

 

[Forest Cat]

American cars were colloquially called Yankee Land Barges.

Most everyday cars you see on the roads here are small, ugly, hopelessly underpowered, boring, useless, awful and boring. Did I mention boring? But we do have a large group of people who love and import Yankee Land Barges. That helps a lot.

 

[Judge]

Did I mention boring? But we do have a large group of people who love and import Yankee Land Barges. That helps a lot.

I'm from Virginia. We don't use the "Y" word any more than we use the "other" word. LOL..but then we don't even use the "C" word either.

I still bust up laughing thinking of when my mother recalled asking for directions in London's Underground and the first thing that pops out of a helpful person's mouth is the Y word.

(OOPS) At least Mom didn't have an umbrella to bash unsuspecting Brits with.

"Thus always to tyrants".

 

[Forest Cat]

I'm from Virginia. We don't use the "Y" word any more than we use the "other" word.

"Thus always to tyrants".

Americans are often called Yankees in Europe. I don't know what the "other" word is unfortunatly. But anyway, my point was just that most cars here are incredibly dull so we're very happy you guys have the American cars. So we can ship them over here and have fun with them.

 

[Outdated]

But we do have a large group of people who love and import Yankee Land Barges. That helps a lot.

I wonder if any of them have a Monaro, rare as hen's teeth these days but they still turn heads. With more European style steering, suspension and brakes they handled very well for their era, every 16 year old's dream was a V8 Monaro and miles of empty grass paddocks to play in.

 

[Forest Cat]

I wonder if any of them have a Monaro, rare as hen's teeth these days but they still turn heads. With more European style steering, suspension and brakes they handled very well for their era, every 16 year old's dream was a V8 Monaro and miles of empty grass paddocks to play in.

Now that I think about it, I have never seen a Holden here.
I'm sure there is one somewhere but they are rare.

 

[Judge]

Americans are often called Yankees in Europe. I don't know what the "other" word is unfortunatly. But anyway, my point was just that most cars here are incredibly dull so we're very happy you guys have the American cars. So we can ship them over here and have fun with them. My neighbor is thundering up and down the road here right now as I type this, in an F-150 Raptor. That's far from boring. Very exciting. That thing almost does wheelies.

What makes/models do you consider to be "dull"?

I just see many American cars to be obnoxiously oversized. But then all the cars I've owned personally were foreign cars. Three Japanese and two British. I like "small".