Electric cars...

[Human Avatar]

Another problem with these cars is the resale value. Let's say I buy an electric car today. And I drive it for 5 years. Then it's getting old and I'll eventually need to get a new one. I'll bet they do the same thing as the do with phones, it's made to last for 3 years. Then it's outdated. But who buys a well used 5 year old electric car? It will need a new battery pack after a while, that's $15-$20 000. I will most likely have to drive it to a recycling center and pay to get rid of it. The market for well used electric cars is not booming here, it's not something people want. So that's not great. They are also very expensive to

They're too quiet. Can hardly hear them driving past.

I'm road savvy. Know what to look out for when crossing roads.
The kid watching his phone crossing the road can hear a petrol/ diesel engine approaching. Electric car? not so much.
Too quiet for me.
Nice cars. Just too quiet.

We do a lot of research and development in electric vehicles here too, it is a good technology for light vehicles with short range, but it's not the overall answer to many of our problems.

https://www.carsguide.com.au/car-ne...eaks-record-for-fastest-ev-on-a-single-charge

I agree I think it will be a combination of multiple sources, solar , battery , fusion , in America we need more train transportation for people. We already have the infrastructure already.
The power need to be adapted to the area . Just like certain plants grow only in certain climates

Transportation and power needs should be no different. A one all solution is doomed to failure. In my opinion
And also the concept of consumerism is already changing.I have seen topics of that in the forums here .
Either way we need to move forward. As technology always will and do . Except during the dark ages which peoples religious beliefs stifled science advances for 100s of years . Who knows how far we would be now .
Change is hard to except . But it is here, has been happening and is coming , with us or without us .

 

[Outdated]

In Australia we're now building plants to manufacture Sodium Ion batteries for power infrastructure, no good for electric vehicles but much cheaper and much safer for household energy storage. There's a lot of different technologies that are going to be coming in to play but I don't see a long term future for electric cars.

 

[Human Avatar]

In Australia we're now building plants to manufacture Sodium Ion batteries for power infrastructure, no good for electric vehicles but much cheaper and much safer for household energy storage. There's a lot of different technologies that are going to be coming in to play but I don't see a long term future for electric cars.

That is a great thing for your economy there . Yes I don’t see it as being sustainable, in the long term. At least for everything

 

[Outdated]

That is a great thing for your economy there . Yes I don’t see it as being sustainable, in the long term. At least for everything

Solar power is a huge thing in Australia, sunshine is something we have in abundance. Household power storage is also becoming very popular as a compliment to the solar energy, but having a big lithium battery sitting at the back of your house is a disaster waiting to happen.

People will always be people and eventually those batteries will suffer physical damage. Sodium Ion takes a lot longer to charge up but it doesn't get hot even on full discharge/short.

 

[Human Avatar]

I think we often forget that many people live in areas where the only transportation they have is cars. If you live in a city you have the subway and other things. I live in the countryside, living here without a car is pretty hopeless. Everyone has a car around here. Most people here need cars for their work too.

One big thing the car gave to people is freedom. Taking away their cars and giving them trains means taking away some freedom. People don't like to lose freedom.

Yes I agree , it’s the same In America . That’s why I mentioned multiple different ways for transport depending on area and location. A all mass transit solution is not suitable everywhere.Freedom is only relevant , if you have a planet to exist on .

 

[Neonatal RRT]

Another perspective. Most of us who live in a capitalist society should understand that these "forces of change" are backed by investors,...and no great idea will come to fruition without some promise of making money.

What we are witnessing is as a result of converging technologies, economies of scale, and the "fat cats" in our society literally putting their dollars to work. Renewable energies, battery storage technologies, artificial intelligences, computer technologies, electric motor technologies, and a long list of other technologies are in a phase of incredible advancement. Our knowledge and advancement is on an exponential curve,...not a linear one. The prices are dropping on an inverse exponential curve,...not a linear one. With the current generation of supercomputers, the computational and control logistics on this latest generation of tech is significantly better than it was even 2 years ago,...and we are advancing faster and faster each year. We are advancing so quickly that by the time a product comes out on the market, it's already got a newer, higher advanced prototype already in its final stages prior to production. The media and the conversation about these things are obsolete by the time we even first hear of them.

We are living in an amazing time in history. At no point in our human history have we seen so many changes, so fast. We have to recognize the significance of that.

Sure, it seems as if politics are involved,...but we must also understand that when billions and trillions of dollars are at stake,...these industries have lawyers and lobbyists heavily influencing our representatives in government. Anyone who says that "it won't work", "we are doomed to fail", any of that,...believe me,...they have the whole plan laid out at least 10 years ahead and they have invested billions and trillions of dollars to make it happen. It's not going to fail. They won't let it. Furthermore, when it comes to things like this,...the goal is advancement in the quality of life of all of us,...supply and demand,...the end result will create demand,...it will be better than what we have now. That's how big companies make money.

As human beings, our brains are almost incapable of understanding what tomorrow will bring as it is coming at us so fast. We tend to have arguments based on "the now", because that's all we know,...but the arguments are highly inaccurate. Now, you can resist and have negativity out of our own anxieties and ignorance,...or,...you can open up your mind and "ride the wave" out of excitement and enjoy the benefits. I choose to be positive,...as I am living a much better lifestyle as a result of my decisions and embracing it.

 

[Human Avatar]

Another perspective. Most of us who live in a capitalist society should understand that these "forces of change" are backed by investors,...and no great idea will come to fruition without some promise of making money.

What we are witnessing is as a result of converging technologies, economies of scale, and the "fat cats" in our society literally putting their dollars to work. Renewable energies, battery storage technologies, artificial intelligences, computer technologies, electric motor technologies, and a long list of other technologies are in a phase of incredible advancement. Our knowledge and advancement is on an exponential curve,...not a linear one. The prices are dropping on an inverse exponential curve,...not a linear one. With the current generation of supercomputers, the computational and control logistics on this latest generation of tech is significantly better than it was even 2 years ago,...and we are advancing faster and faster each year. We are advancing so quickly that by the time a product comes out on the market, it's already got a newer, higher advanced prototype already in its final stages prior to production. The media and the conversation about these things are obsolete by the time we even first hear of them.

We are living in an amazing time in history. At no point in our human history have we seen so many changes, so fast. We have to recognize the significance of that.

Sure, it seems as if politics are involved,...but we must also understand that when billions and trillions of dollars are at stake,...these industries have lawyers and lobbyists heavily influencing our representatives in government. Anyone who says that "it won't work", "we are doomed to fail", any of that,...believe me,...they have the whole plan laid out at least 10 years ahead and they have invested billions and trillions of dollars to make it happen. It's not going to fail. They won't let it. Furthermore, when it comes to things like this,...the goal is advancement in the quality of life of all of us,...supply and demand,...the end result will create demand,...it will be better than what we have now. That's how big companies make money.

As human beings, our brains are almost incapable of understanding what tomorrow will bring as it is coming at us so fast. We tend to have arguments based on "the now", because that's all we know,...but the arguments are highly inaccurate. Now, you can resist and have negativity out of our own anxieties and ignorance,...or,...you can open up your mind and "ride the wave" out of excitement and enjoy the benefits. I choose to be positive,...as I am living a much better lifestyle as a result of my decisions and embracing it.

I am glad you mentioned this . I was thinking it . But did not know how to put it into words properly

 

[Outdated]

The main driver of the ammonia technology is our wealthiest mining magnate - Andrew Forrest. He mines lithium and sells it to other countries but doesn't recommend it for use here.

 

[Human Avatar]

The main driver of the ammonia technology is our wealthiest mining magnate - Andrew Forrest. He mines lithium and sells it to other countries but doesn't recommend it for use here.

I am going to read up on this I have never heard of it . Thank you !

 

[Outdated]

I am going to read up on this I have never heard of it . Thank you !

The links I provided earlier are to reports from his main company - Fortescue.

 

[Sherlock77]

Another perspective... Unless costs come down significantly, all of this is making harder to make cars affordable... I do understand why an electric car costs more (as has been detailed), but not everybody can afford that higher cost, and I'm not a wealthy person...

I do have a slight fear that my days of road trips might come to an end if all of this keeps happening, I do enjoy leaving the big city behind on occasion to explore...

I know I could just ride a bicycle and not own a car, but there are many times during the year where I attend events/things that happen outside the range of where any public transport happens, and that would be a big blow to my lifestyle, or does that sound selfish to even say that? From what I see, more technology equals higher cost of living, which has impacts on many people...

 

[Judge]

Electric auto owner: "What happens if it catches fire?"
Fireman: "We'll carefully watch it burn."

 

[Outdated]

Electric auto owner: "What happens if it catches fire?"

We've had a lot of instances here lately with house fires being started by the batteries in electric bikes. Most of these are caused by physical damage to the battery by rough riding or by putting it on the charger and forgetting about it, but people will always be people.

 

[Gerontius]

We've had a lot of instances here lately with house fires being started by the batteries in electric bikes. Most of these are caused by physical damage to the battery by rough riding or by putting it on the charger and forgetting about it, but people will always be people.

I have seen a few incidents reported about that.
Remember a good many electric bicycles and scooters are very cheaply made. The infamous Bird scooter rental began with the Xiaomi M365, a fairly inexpensive little contraption that (at least in early models) had a reputation for catching on fire.

The gasoline automobiles we have today are pretty good little fire-starters themselves; the catalytic converter gets hot & can set dry grass ablaze if the car is parked in tall grass. Old cars used to build up hot carbon and blow out soot; they also tended to backfire through their own carburetor (a former source of vehicle fires.) Diesel locomotives are a source of particulate exhaust buildup that sometimes can be thrown from the stack of the engine as glowing carbon, setting line-side fires (the older brake shoes still in use on some American class one freight RR's are another source.)

Pretty much every form of motor transport can have fire danger, but the lithium-powered modern electric is more prone to fire danger, ironically, than its lead-acid predecessors at the turn of the 20th century. Lead-acid batteries offgas hydrogen when charging, and battery banks are best vented to prevent sparks from igniting the air. The lithium battery doesn't do this, but they DO catch afire when they are punctured (so accidents are going to be a source of this. Lead batteries don't burn; they leak.)

The electric auto of today is usually run from banks of small lithium cells, called 18650 cells, spotwelded into large batteries. Burning one cell will cause a chain reaction as it burns the cells next to it.

A lot of vapes use 18650s as well, and some of the people injured by malfunctioning vapes or e-cigarettes have been around that. And the old Samsung Galaxy smartphone, I think it was the 7, used to have trouble like this as well but it took a flat battery.

So while lithium might have its drawbacks as well as its advantages, "electric battery" does not always have to equal "lithium battery."

https://www.denverpost.com/2018/12/11/electric-scooter-china-bird-lime-lyft-uber/

 

[Gerontius]

I do think EV could become excellent social engineering tools in the future though. They can be manipulated, updated, reprogrammed, etc wirelessly. If governing bodies decide in the future it's most environmentally friendly for people not to go more than a certain distance beyond where they live (acceptable radius), EVs can likely have a distance limitation programmed into them. They can be a tool to modify, mold and even curb human behavior that may be considered unacceptable in the future.

I think we are, sadly, already there with the gasoline car, but not so much from nefarious government source as perhaps from consumerism.

We genuinely should not have to strap into an 105-horsepower machine to nip down to the corner shop three miles away. I feel like the cost of the automobile, the weight of it, the requirement of storing it, the hassle of having to fuel it with gasoline instead of being able to generate electricity with my own equipment (solar cells or a steam engine, who cares) and the bureaucracy of trying to run the thing, is an infringement on freedom as well, and I loved the untethered liberty of the bicycle.

When car ownership is just about obligatory to success--there's your problem.

 

[Outdated]

We genuinely should not have to strap into an 105-horsepower machine to nip down to the corner shop three miles away.

It's worse than that, most people will use the car if they have to go further than 300 metres. We are an incredibly wasteful society, but good luck trying to change that one.

 

[Neonatal RRT]

Another perspective... Unless costs come down significantly, all of this is making harder to make cars affordable... I do understand why an electric car costs more (as has been detailed), but not everybody can afford that higher cost, and I'm not a wealthy person...

I do have a slight fear that my days of road trips might come to an end if all of this keeps happening, I do enjoy leaving the big city behind on occasion to explore...

I know I could just ride a bicycle and not own a car, but there are many times during the year where I attend events/things that happen outside the range of where any public transport happens, and that would be a big blow to my lifestyle, or does that sound selfish to even say that? From what I see, more technology equals higher cost of living, which has impacts on many people...

A valid point,...today. But, like I mentioned, my Nissan and my Teslas were actually less expensive to own and operate than my Toyotas,...emphasis upon "and operate". Even if you don't produce your own electricity,...it is less than 30% per mile than gasoline and essentially no maintenance. The data on my Tesla phone app actually keeps a running 31- day calculation of this, based upon the average cost of electricity and gasoline in my area. I do a snow tire swap in the Spring and Fall. I fill the washer fluid. I wash the car. That's it.

Now, Tesla does have a prototype EV that has a price target of $25,000 US. I think that once the new Gigafactory in Mexico is built, or even before, at Giga Berlin or China, they will be selling these like "hot cakes". Tesla has such a high demand right now that Model 3s and Ys have preorders that are backed up for several months. Right now, they don't need to drop their prices or introduce a cheaper model,...emphasis on "right now". At least in the US, starting Jan. 1, 2023, Tesla will now be eligible for a $7500 Federal tax credit,...at the point of purchase. Tesla is currently running on an 18% profit margin,...Ford and GM,...4%. So, there is possibility,...some rumors, that Tesla may be dropping the prices of their vehicles to keep up demand during this economic recession.

Another thing to consider,...with the rapid advancements in the artificial intelligence of autonomous driving,...at least in cities and suburbs,...people might just have a "subscription service",...you just call for a car on your phone app and it just shows up. In other words, many people will have zero need to own a car. Expensive auto repairs, insurance, parking, etc....a thing of the past. There will be significantly higher numbers of these vehicles on the road in the very near future, so no worries about the inconvenience with "waiting". I was in New York City a few years ago,...you "call a car",...someone shows up at your door in less than 3 minutes. I was impressed.

 

[Gerontius]

Transport I've enjoyed:
1996 Toyota Corolla, Model DX, North American edition.
Pros: galvanized steel body, AE102 1.8L I4 engine, seats 5, A/C and heat, power windows & locks, radio cassette player. Top speed 85mph if you are ok with burning a quart of 5w30 lubricating oil every 10 miles, and with terrifying levels of understeer. OK burning cheap copper spark plugs, simple to work on, fix it yourself on the side of the road. Like the bastard child of a Morris Minor and a Cuisinart.

Cons:
Expensive if wrecked, gets 37.5mpg going 50mph, costs $50 just to put the cheapest tires on each wheel, parts only available on aftermarket (or homemade; I've had to make some parts myself). Only low-emissions if you change catalytic converter every 100,000mi. Needs completely new shock absorbers every 60,000 miles (as opposed to leaf springs that could be disassembled & greased.) Smoky, noisy, too slow for the highway and too fast to crash safely, prone to rusting, tires are 14" steel belted radials so always rubbing off more microplastics than they could.

Engine & transmission rebuilds will cost more than the value of the car.

On the whole, though it's nice to go long distance in the Toyota, I'd love to put it on blocks & let it be a hen house someday. Forget a chicken coop; I'll be the first one on the block with a four-door, air-conditioned, all-American chicken sedan!


Raleigh DL-1 bicycle, 1913 to 1985 (clones still built as the "Eastman" or "Hercules" machine.)

Pros:
Pure FREEDOM. You take full personal responsibility for pumping off those American carbs. Fueled by whatever you ate that morning. Built to have a kerosene headlight but can be fitted with incandescent or LED battery lantern, or self-powered dynamo. 3spd manual gear lever for climbing hills, fully enclosed chain drive. Can handle deeper water than the Toyota Corolla without floating away. Mine is from 1966 or something & still had the original bearings in the wheels & headstock; I changed them using a $3 plumbing wrench I got and a tub of No. 2 axle grease. Runs on sewing-machine oil, gun oil, or leftover motor oil from the car to lubricate the Sturmey-Archer rear axle. All parts available. Made out of steel inside & out. Pure timeless style--it attracts as much attention as a Packard eight, and cost about as much as getting one or two tires for said Packard.

Cons: I can't think of any that aren't my own actual responsibility.

One time I raced a 2004 Toyota with this 1966-model bicycle through standard city streets. Now I nearly ran over a squirrel and a square-body Volvo due to the failure of my brakes, but I fought the car to a tie--didn't take me as long to get back up to speed after a traffic light, and I didn't have to go hunt for a parking meter--just jump off, park the thing, and walk away.

 

[tree]

REMINDER

Mentions of government regulation brings politics into the discussion.
And any political discussion belongs in the Autism-Related Political Discussions area
and should be autism-related.

So, as tempting as it is to discuss the governmental regulation of
vehicles, it is not appropriate for this thread.

Spoiler

https://www.autismforums.com/threads/politics-discussion-forum-statement-of-purpose.19704/Post #3

 

[Gerontius]

One aspect of cars that hasn't been talked about: size of the actual car.
Kei cars are tiny, & would be a prime introduction point for electric power.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kei_car
Nissan had a kei-sized electric car before there was a kei car category really-- 1947 Tama was a small car, either 4-seater or a truck, available with either a tiny gas engine or electric motor with storage batteries. Performance was lackluster but for a country that'd just been nuked they were doing all right with the Tama. Company later became Datsun & now you see Nissans as the successor of the '47 Tama which looks like a lunchbox on wheels.

They are not road-legal everywhere, but where there's infrastructure for them (or off road, such as in big factories or on farms) kei cars & trucks are pretty nifty little machines and sell cheaply enough.

Gasoline or electric, these do cut down on the hassle of pollution, expense, and bulky road-damaging mess that comes attendant on the large cars now.