Empathy and YOUR feelings as an AS person

[Autistamatic]

It's 8.30 am here and I have woken up to find some brilliantly useful replies on this thread. Thanks to everyone who has replied so far. Much of what is said backs up what I have learned through research but it's the personal angle that helps so much in shaping a script
I just want to comment on the Spock/Data observations. Personally I have to say "absolutely" - I could not agree more. So many of us have identified with those two characters in particular. Another character I and others have identified with heavily is Sherlock Holmes. We have members with screen names that reflect it on this forum
So far at least, I have steered clear of mentioning this on video for the sole reason that some of us have been called "Spock" or "Data" as insults by intolerant people. I even picked up the name of "Spocker" (a play on both Spock and a very cruel name then applied to people with CP) as a child which was used to try inflicting maximum pain. Back then I so wished I had Mr Spock's capacity for emotional control when his name was used to berate me.
Spock and Data have both helped to provide not role models, but a frame of reference for so many Aspies, but have also been an easy stereotype for bullies to build upon, especially since so many episodes of TOS ended with Kirk and McCoy sharing a private giggle at Spock's other worldly view of humanity. Consequently I haven't yet mentioned it rather than reinforce the bullies.
Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I should bring it up and set the ball rolling to reclaim these characters as positive achetypes of people who see the world differently?

 

[Carpe_Librum]

I feel a great deal of it - and as a result people pour a lot of their emotions into me. I have the urge to fix, to apply logic to the emotional flood because it feels so huge and affects me to the degree it does.
At this point I have found that people can turn against and lose rationality. I then become completely flooded and go into shut down mode. A friend of mine has called it my robot mode. I don't seem to care then. I may actually feel that I don't but it is more a case of the gates must close.

My empathy was pushed this month as someone I have been caring for for twenty years (I work with adults with severe learning difficulties and the associated end of autism that comes with more severe learning difficulties) is in hospital, terminally ill.
I began to feel I was him. This is going to be hard to explain but I was there at hospital so much, and so so upset at the sheer cruelty of the situation for someone I care so much for that my subconscious mind couldn't separate easily myself, from him. Particularly when half awake/half asleep.
That has passed now but that was a good few days of that. It frightened me. I had to tell myself it was empathy gone wild.

I would say that sums mine up. It goes wild. I have to cage it somehow. As a result I am misunderstood often.

 

[Autistamatic]

I feel a great deal of it - and as a result people pour a lot of their emotions into me. I have the urge to fix, to apply logic to the emotional flood because it feels so huge and affects me to the degree it does.
At this point I have found that people can turn against and lose rationality. I then become completely flooded and go into shut down mode. A friend of mine has called it my robot mode. I don't seem to care then. I may actually feel that I don't but it is more a case of the gates must close.

My empathy was pushed this month as someone I have been caring for for twenty years (I work with adults with severe learning difficulties and the associated end of autism that comes with more severe learning difficulties) is in hospital, terminally ill.
I began to feel I was him. This is going to be hard to explain but I was there at hospital so much, and so so upset at the sheer cruelty of the situation for someone I care so much for that my subconscious mind couldn't separate easily myself, from him. Particularly when half awake/half asleep.
That has passed now but that was a good few days of that. It frightened me. I had to tell myself it was empathy gone wild.

I would say that sums mine up. It goes wild. I have to cage it somehow. As a result I am misunderstood often.

How very well described. I feel that this post is going to resonate with so many of us here.

 

[Annanda]

It is just that they don't pick up my frequency, while I can't block out theirs. Too bad for me, I guess. At least no one will notice...

That's exactly my experience. Might be that there is a certain relation to facial expression and body posture, which are not so distinct in our repertoire of communication, that other people can't read us easily. I even heard from a coworker, that she found that scary.
May be there is also a lack of interest? Most people I know care a lot about themselves and not so much about others.
I'm like many of you able to mirror the feelings of others exactly and intensely and they tend to use this gift for their purposes. It's like a seventh sense, but it requires the physical presence of the other being and it is definitely exhausting. Or I know him or her so well, that I can predict her behavioral pattern.
Then I act automatically in his or her interest, which can lead to dangerous situations.
If all this is not possible, I use my own emotional experience in a similar case to imagine what's going on in the other person. But this coping-strategy can be misunderstood as self-centered, if it fails.
But I myself with my needs was very often overlooked since childhood even in my family. I also tend to rationalize my feelings to avoid being overwhelmed and therefore unable to cope with reality anymore. Sometimes I smile at the very wrong moments or I trivialize my own grief, because I don't want to bother the other person.
May be I presume, that she will process my emotions as I would be able to do with hers.

 

[Carpe_Librum]

But I myself with my needs was very often overlooked since childhood even in my family. I also tend to rationalize my feelings to avoid being overwhelmed and therefore unable to cope with reality anymore. Sometimes I smile at the very wrong moments or I trivialize my on grief, because I don't want to bother the other person.
May be I presume, that she will process my emotions as I would be able to do with hers.

This, absolutely.
People think I am great at coping - it isn't that. I'm not. So need more safety nets and methods of detachment because quite frankly it's all terrifying.

This thread has really given me so much to think about.

 

[Autistamatic]

This, absolutely.
People think I am great at coping - it isn't that. I'm not. So need more safety nets and methods of detachment because quite frankly it's all terrifying.

This thread has really given me so much to think about.

Again - agreement wholeheartedly from myself. Because I may appear calm and detached whilst taking practical action in stressful circumstances, I get comments like "How do you cope, I am/would be in pieces. You're so in control..."
Inside I'm screaming and wishing I could cope, wishing that I wasn't on the brink of meltdown and that I'm not going to go home and fall apart from the mental effort.
That's why I think this video is an important one and I value the feedback so much. What people see on the outside and judge us by is a million miles from what is often going on inside us.

 

[Suzanne]

I think I am very empathic, even if I have not experienced what the other has. I try to think how I would feel and go from there.

I am not very good with sympathy and emotions overwhelm me. I mean, I get overwhelmed with my own emotions, to do deal with others, is just too much and unfortunately, I end up observing how loud they sound and how distorted they look etc, which I hate about myself.

I also have what I term as: misplaced empathy. For example. My brother came to stay with us for a week and I felt myself feeling rather sick at the notion of him on the ferry, but kept this to myself and he volunteered that he loves it and had no issue with walking around and getting something to eat.

He even walked around a town that he has never been to before and had a fabulous time with his camera and I felt sick with worry that he was going through anxiety and he was not!

I do think I feel more than the avarage nt

 

[Otenba]

Emotions can overwhelm me, but like some have already said, I too go into a "robot mode". It can be really numb being like that. I do my best to listen to people who want to share their pain, but I have trouble working out who really wants help. As someone with a non-autistic condition with problems that will unlikely be fixed in my life time, just the act of someone listening to me can make a world of difference. Just listening is a form of help and not enough people appreciate that. I say thank you for telling me when I recognise it took them a lot of strength to tell me and feeling they can trust me. I also thank those that listen.

 

[Monachopia]

Do you feel less or more intensely than they appear to? How does it make you feel if you can't share in the moment with them, or don't know how to comfort somebody when they're down? Are you afraid of misunderstanding or rejections or are you confident in the way you handle emotional situations?

I'd say I feel things less intensely than those around me. I think most of the time my initial reaction is confusion when I see someone who is at the extremes of emotions such as jumping/dancing around in joy or crying. I don't express extremes so I cannot relate to those or feel them alongside someone else. When someone is happy over a promotion at work or something going their way, I'm not sure I feel 'happy' for them in the same sense as most other people seem to. I understand that I should express something congratulatory and I do so, but I don't know how to share that moment with them as I don't know how to act that way. Because of this inability to do so, I feel damaged and it does carry over to the other person, they see me an unfeeling or uncaring. I shy away from excited people, because I don't want them to misunderstand or reject me because I can't show what they expect me to.

If someone is on the other end of the scale and they're upset, I don't feel sad for them either, but I have learned to comfort and learned the right things to say - however, I do still go into their situation by trying to 'fix it', which understandably isn't always what people want. But, having said that, people do tend to think I'm a good listener as I ask questions and don't shy away from difficult topics as I view them as part of life, while most other people seem to avoid delving deeper into a situation. I can navigate someone feeling sad better because I know what that feels like, and usually they are calmer so I'm not overwhelmed with too much all at once... so people do come to me for emotional support more often than not.

As for anger, that's another whole kettle of fish, I've no idea why, but I start laughing when someone's shouting in anger, which is a bizarre reaction to say the least. Either that, or I go blank and freeze on the spot. I avoid conflict as much as possible, but people shouting just sets me on edge and I've no coping mechanism for it at all.

So it really depends on the type of emotional situation and whether I can handle it. Most of the ime I'll resort to analysing it for a minute or two, but I don't feel it with those people, and this is what people always pick up on, that I don't have an automatic emotional response. It's pretty obvious to those around me so I'll never be accepted, and the problem is, I know this and I can see myself failing at all these 'social expectations', but still, I don't know how to react in the correct way. I wish I could feel that joy and dance around with someone, I wish I could feel sadness for someone who's just had a terrible blow. It's very isolating not to 'perform' like everyone around me seems to.

 

[Monachopia]

I feel you soo much on this comment, I most definitely communicate better through written words, or music, or other forms of expression then I do with speaking, I can even act a little (hell I am acting all the time anyways so why should this be any different?), when speaking I can often come off as cold and uncaring as I have little to no reaction to say someone telling me that someone very close to them has passed away or some other negative thing in their life, I feel a combination of things.

I try to say something to let them know I acknowledge how they feel, and hope they wont feel it much longer, but there is no emotion in my voice, I don't feel I really know how to react in the situation. I don't want to overreact and get myself emotionally involved with someone I am not close to situation and in the process bum myself out, but I don't want to come off as a cold uncaring asshole either, so I try to say something reassuring (usually something I have heard before, on a movie, or TV, or from someone else) that seems like it should be the right thing to say.

But at the same time my logical part of the brain says, "Why should I be upset about something that happend to someone else that has no baring or impact on my life, let alone something I can not do anything about?" I just don't understand why some people get so emotional about other peoples problems.

Even when it is someone close to me that something bad has happend to I still really don't show much concern, even if I do feel it, my mom recently told me she had to go to the ER, part of me was upset she didn't tell me she went to the ER, but at the same time I think my mom knows me well enough to not tell me something that will make me panic if there is no need to alarm me until she knows more and if it is actually something to be concerned about, but again I don't really try to get emotionally involved in those situations as it will effect my ability to function greatly. I often suppress emotions to avoid panic and stress as I do not deal with stress well at all and often will try to maintain a logical objective point of view most of the time.

In a lot of ways I relate heavily to Spock and sometimes to Data from Star Trek, Spock because you know when he is feeling emotion and hurt and loss it is very difficult for him, but he does not show it and he maintains his logical mindset until he no longer control himself and its gets the better of him due to his human side. Data because he has a very hard time relating to other living beings and understanding why they do the things they do, and how he often gives way more information then is need (I am so bad at this, I information dump all the time).

Anyways long story short, I have a hard time showing and expressing emotions, I get easily upset and offended by what others would see as trivial matters and as something that shouldn't be taken personally. But at the same time I can and have been able to pickup on the emotional states of others easily and quickly, so I am all over the place. I have balled my eyes out or at least became very emotionally involved with fictional characters and stories, I think is maybe because I can not be hurt and feel safe with these characters so I let my emotional walls down.

This whole post totally resonates with me. You've said everything that I couldn't, especially the last part, fictional characters cannot hurt us so it's easier to let the emotional walls down. Keeping an emotional distance from those around me is easier not to get overwhelmed. It's not that I don't care or don't feel anything at all. I just choose not to because it will get too much. There's a lot of fear of judgement to letting emotions out and fear of rejection. No one likes feeling vulnerable. It's easier to keep it in check and under control even though inside I'm probably screaming.

 

[Annanda]

My empathy was pushed this month as someone I have been caring for for twenty years (I work with adults with severe learning difficulties and the associated end of autism that comes with more severe learning difficulties) is in hospital, terminally ill.
I began to feel I was him. This is going to be hard to explain but I was there at hospital so much, and so so upset at the sheer cruelty of the situation for someone I care so much for that my subconscious mind couldn't separate easily myself, from him. Particularly when half awake/half asleep.
That has passed now but that was a good few days of that. It frightened me. I had to tell myself it was empathy gone wild.

This is my experience, too.
Often when I recognize strong emotions and I'm not in solitude, I have to sort out: are these mine or do they belong to the other person. Can occur also with strangers in the train e.g.

 

[Theta.G]

Wish i could answer some of your questions but i no longer have emotional empathy... this is likely from a co-morbid.

 

[Pats]

I read this paragraph and knew it expresses my thoughts exactly.
I also feel it isn't easy to express due to my rather flat tone of voice and just don't want to get
overly involved in a situation that isn't close to me. It only causes more internal anxiety.

I live with someone who can't call anyone by their real name, only some duragatory slur,
and is always ready to speak in a demanding, abusive tone of voice.
People he doesn't even know often say: " You don't have to scream at me."
Which infuriates him even more and answers with a reply of , "This is just how I talk.
You haven't heard me screaming...yet!"
It makes me sick inside to be in this negativity all the time. I feel sorry for the person on the receiving
end of these rants. But, I dare say nothing.

Mr. Spock and Data were always idyllic charactures for me as @aspeiandconfused_87 spoke of for the
same reasons.
I feel hurt, emotion and loss, but want to maintain the logical mindset and not show it until I can no
longer control it.
An as Data, I have a hard time understanding why humans do the things they do.

I also have had certain things in movies suddenly make me bawl my eyes out too.
It hits an emotional chord that is sensitive to me.
But, I don't want anyone see me cry.

Oh - I don't want anyone to see me cry either.
I feel your discomfort in living with someone negative. It's hard to face people yourself because of something your husband did. I am the same way and have always asked myself why am I the one feeling embarrassed or whatever. Why do we pick up the guilt for someone else?

 

[Pats]

Yes this is exactly it for me!

I truly love this forum as it is one of the few places I can interact with so many people that get me and understand where I am coming from, I wish more of us could find each other in the real world, I know in the place I live there is probably a lot more people on the spectrum then you are aware of, but people just do not talk about it, and understandably people on the spectrum don't go around telling people they are on the spectrum for fear of being treated differently or having stigmas placed on you, but sometimes I kind of wish there was way for us to be able to identify each other that only people on the spectrum could recognize, does that make sense?

Yes. We could be surrounded by others like ourselves and never know it.

 

[Carpe_Librum]

Feeling embarrassed for someone else is a very strong one for me also.
Although my own experience of personally becoming embarrassed is a bit haphazard, I can often do things that would make another person feel completely ridiculous, and I can laugh it off. Other times a tiny thing is enough to have me flushing and feeling devastated, but I always acutely feel it for others in a rush of heat and sadness. Thinking about it it's one of the hardest ones for me to watch and as a result receive that emotional input from. It is powerful.

 

[onlything]

Honestly, the notion of experiencing feelings of others is completely abstract to me. I don't 'feel' what other people do, I can only 'feel' emotions I experienced before or imagine the hurt or happiness they experience by analysing the situation. Otherwise, it sounds like some wonky kind of telepathy to me but I overall seem to feel either too strongly or too weakly than how other people perceive things. Although the reason for that may be depression or other mental health condition, not exactly autism and yet it was always like this. And even when I do feel similar, I have no idea how to express it.

It works better overall if I'm rested and in fine mood. It feels easier to feel and understand people than when I'm under a lot of stress. Still, being empathetic for me was more of a process. As a kid I felt things but couldn't understand them and as a teenager I was too angry and bitter to try, so I started learning only in my late teens. Depression made it easier and harder at the same time.

It's easier to connect to people I really care about. I learnt their quirks, can predict their answer and I know how to express myself to show that I'm happy/sad etc for them. It is so much easier to feel with them because I understand what I'm feeling and they can be feeling.

Emotions overall are a bundled mess of things.

 

[Iamnotarabot]

I am rarely aware of how I feel in social situations so it is hard to tell if I have any emotionnal empathy.
I know I care about others so this is enought for me.

I can cry from movie when a sad thing happens.

This is hard to realy answer because well the social situations I live are very rare.

In my memory when someone talked to me about his problem I would rather try to find a solution , than share emotionnaly? I dont know its a weird question anyway,what does that even mean emotionnal empathy...

And other times the problem of others around me left me maybe more sad than the person actually having it.

 

[Sir Stig]

...I felt things but couldn't understand them...
*snip*
Emotions overall are a bundled mess of things.

This!

For me it is not necessarily getting to the right conclusion by intuition, but like some energy that gets absorbed and overloads me. Analyzing helps me identify the sources (not always correct), but I think the analytical approach have developed as a response to the initial intensity of lacking an input filter, and not having an output response system that is aligned to internal feelings.

It may be difficult to react in the moment because I need time to identify my own emotions, and that is also the reason I go back and forth through events afterwards. The energy gets stored somehow, and I can't get rid of it until I identify it (maybe not even then).

Maybe. Not sure. It makes sense at the moment, but I need to let it sink in before I will say definitively that is the way it works for me.

 

[Anonym]

This is a complex subject for me (and I imagine many other aspies as well) due to a great degree of difficulty understanding and processing emotions in general, both of the self and others. I've always found the whole process quite confusing, but it's something I've been reading and thinking a lot about lately, so I want to take a stab at this...

Do you feel less or more intensely than they appear to?
Could be either, depending on the situation. I've found that it's really hard to imagine or work out how someone else is feeling/would feel, versus just projecting/expecting them to feel how I would in a given scenario. I tend to be emotionally disconnected, so most often when I notice other people having an intense reaction, I'm totally confused about why they would feel that way. I remember being a kid and thinking that people were faking their reactions as some kind of show, for the benefit of making a point, rather than as a genuine response, and to some degree I still feel that way, even when my brain tells me that it's probably not the case. I'm starting to see how deeply I can be affected by others' anger and sadness, without being fully aware that I'm having an emotional response, but I don't understand this part of it enough to put any words to it yet.

How does it make you feel if you can't share in the moment with them, or don't know how to comfort somebody when they're down?
Again, it depends. Sometimes I feel grateful that I'm disconnected enough to see a situation without the confusion of emotional stimuli. Other times I just feel confused and awkward, like I can see that someone I care about is suffering and want to help somehow, but can't work out what I'm supposed to do. I feel sad and even a little embarrassed when, in retrospect, I realize that a loved one was suffering and I did nothing to acknowledge it or comfort them.

Are you afraid of misunderstanding or rejections or are you confident in the way you handle emotional situations?
The few people I interact with regularly know I'm not a good go-to for emotional support. They usually come to me when they just want someone to listen and/or want a rational, disconnected viewpoint or practical advice. When the situation falls outside of this narrow comfort zone, I worry that saying or doing the wrong thing will aggravate them, I get locked up with a kind of decision paralysis and end up doing nothing, which can make things worse on its own if the other person is expecting a reciprocal response. I've learned that certain people I know usually just want to vent and don't need any real feedback other than a scripted "oh, damn, that sucks, what a bastard, etc...". I've become more confident with these individuals since identifying this issue in direct conversation. Trying to work out their expectations on my own has not been historically successful, so I've started asking specifically what they want when I feel confused. I've had mixed responses, but so far the results are predominantly positive.
In regards to the general public, I do my best to avoid emotional situations with people I don't know very well.

 

[Otenba]

The trouble with being uncomfortable with expressing your vulnerability is if you don't, it allows no opportunity for others to help you and in turn doesn't give them chance to prove to you that they are trust worthy. Its the same for those who don't give you the opportunity with their vulnerable side. Relationships are built on trust.

I didn't think to add earlier so will say now, depending on who you dealing with, being too expressive of your vulnerabilities can work against you if the person isn't okay enough in themselves to help you, and it works both ways. We need to be aware of our limits so we can agree boundaries and build trust.