Empathy

[lovely_darlingprettybaby]

It seems to me that the human population at large is void of empathy. I even feel that most people don’t even understand the definition, because they can’t imagine what the feeling of empathy would be. While they can recite the definition, I don’t believe they can actually imagine it. Actually, I cannot remember ever meeting or knowing anyone that has a sense of empathy.

It seems to be a common agreement that empathy is even more void among autistic people. However, I feel that I have been endowed with more than my share. I suffer catastrophic PTSDs resulting from empathy of my friends.

I am not seeking advice on “curing” or “healing” or “treating” my PTSDs or my sense of empathy. That is not what this post is about. I don’t even believe it’s possible. I am just wondering if anyone else “suffers” from the totality of empathy. Also, this post is mostly a rant.

I believe that most of the suffering in the world is the result of a lack of empathy. I believe that wars, walls, murders, prejudices, bigotry, segregation, etc. could not occur if empathy was common. I believe there would be no bullies. Autistic, or any kind of people that are not like the majority would not be singled out and considered defective, or need “fixed”, or made to “conform”. I believe that people that are different should be celebrated, but they are most often scorned. It is very hurtful to me when it is considered that my empathy (or my autism) is considered “wrong”; inflicting anger in others who want to punish and hurt me for it.

I have to agree with what Terry Collins said to Kate Wheeler in the movie, “Bandits”, “I think it's better to feel too much than to feel too little.” I never want to forget my friends or loose my empathy for them. But, I have tragic PTSDs about them and I desperately do not want to add to those experiences again.

I agree, it is increasingly difficult to find people with empathy or who are not judgmental or prejudice.
I mean no one is perfect.
And I do believe some people feel empathy easier like some autistics and empaths.
But I do not just believe empathy is just something someone with disabilities can experience I think there are people with empathy or empaths with no disabilities.
But it is hard to find and can make you feel alone because a lot of people struggle with compassion and caring even and are very self centred and mainly concerned with their own life and interests rather than others.
I try to believe everyone cares to some capacity and the world is not as bad as I think but some people are very greedy and have quite a lot going for them that others do not or have never experienced and can seem quite ungrateful and seem to think they can live on their own sufficiency without need or want for a higher power which tell me they are really evil because God made them and gave them everything they have. And a lot of people seem to think Christmas abd Easter has no faith meaning or relevance anymore. Which completely makes me sick and goes against my beliefs but also people have to feel welcome in the church and by God for them not like faith is for a select elite few who can live according to a certain creed.
Because it is not, it is a gift from Christ.
Just like life is so people can have it abundantly God gave Christ to them and ot is a gift from God.
So it is arrogant if people think they can get there according to reading the bible so well or abiding by scripture and being obedient.
And not everyone can live like that under such rigid regulations or so they think.
You are right people should not take advantage of people with disabilities. People with disabilities do their best, they can struggle in certain areas but that does not mean they cannot do things for some people. It is hard we have enough struggles without being taken advantage of others or having to cope with life on our own with childhood trauma.
I myself with my type of disability get sick of having to stand up for myself and fight for myself because it is exhausting and I do not enjoy conflict but who will fight for me and justify my truths. When you are right give people a chance to hurt you and some people will.
Everyone makes mistakes, disabilities or not sometimes it is not your fault and you should not have to pay for them forever especially when it is not your fault.
That is where God's mercy comes in that is available for everyone.
Love takes strength and endurance and forgiveness sometimes, you will never know love until you learn some of those things. It is not just supposed to be easy and a walk in the park, true love takes effort and often action anyone can say or feel loving feelings but true love overcomes all bounds and is loving and respectful of differences so you should feel free to be you and feel like people respect it and are polite as they can be and feel like you are heard and loved back in abundance and for you without people trying to change you or fit their box.
It is hard when their are not many empaths or loving people and I struggle and hurt over it too and truly believe sometimes people with disabilities and loving and caring people get hurt the most if they do not have a strong family base who they can go back to who understand them when they get hurt in life or things get too overwhelming.

 

[Levitat0r]

I think maybe you are referring to me here, although I'm not sure. Of course we would have different views. You are YOU and I am ME. We have different brains and have had different experiences. Different is neutral - neither one of our opinions should hold more or less value or veracity than the other. Just different experiences that determine different views.


I would handle being a human trash can differently.

To save myself from the hurt and shame of having people throw their trash into me, I would take the time to examine every piece of trash until I understood it down to its cellular make up. (In my life, everything can be whittled into interesting information and I live to learn and quench my curiosity about things.) Once I understood the trash, I would take it and make things out of it that I would display in the alleyway where I sat in the rain, in the snow, and on the cold cold nights all alone. On those nights, I would contemplate the stars, make wishes on them, and be grateful for their glittering light that brings me such wonder and joy.

I would notice that every once in awhile a human comes to empty the trash, easing my burden and making new space for interesting things for me to examine. I would notice children who wondered if I was the home for a green grouch called Oscar, and I would see that across the street, in another dirty alleyway, there was a dumpster. A dumpster is a lot like a trashcan, but also different. And for that dumpster, I could foster understanding, interest, and empathy, even though we were different.

The one thing I relate to here is the comment about analyzing the cellular makeup of trash. It's precisely what we do. We tend to wear glasses because we're nearsighted, and then, poetically enough, our minds are too. I sat around and I Tweeted, Facebooked, and published all of the terrible things I saw going on around me. What I found out is that if I'm a human trashcan, the world is a dump, and that dump is constantly trying to climb into anyone who is dumb enough to leave their lid open. You can't save the sharks from drowning by bailing the water from the ocean. Your strategy is right and noble, until you know better, and at the moment you realize it's become about self-injury and wasted time, you reasonably give up.

What I learned is that my parents are involved in international matters, and the people who run the show; shocker, they don't value human rights. They'll use your weaknesses against you, they'll manufacture new ones out of whole cloth, they'll slander you, they'll lie about you, they'll tempt you with crime to get leverage on you, just to get you out of their way. And that's the way the world really works. You don't count. There's no MiB who comes to the door, flashes his badge and says "We need to talk, son". They try to destroy you.

 

[Rodafina]

What I found out is that if I'm a human trashcan, the world is a dump, and that dump is constantly trying to climb into anyone who is dumb enough to leave their lid open. You can't save the sharks from drowning by bailing the water from the ocean. Your strategy is right and noble, until you know better, and at the moment you realize it's become about self-injury and wasted time, you reasonably give up.

This is an example of you essentially saying, "I am right, and you are wrong." It reads as an insinuation that I am "dumb enough to leave my lid open" and that soon I will "know better" and then start to think like you. I'm not offended. Just pointing out how this is very different from acknowledging two different points of view.

Sharks don't need to be saved from drowning.

Your perspective is valid and real and meaningful to you. My perspective is very different here and it does not come from blind naivete. We are informed by the lives we have lived and the lens we choose to view the world.

 

[Levitat0r]

This is an example of you essentially saying, "I am right, and you are wrong." It reads as an insinuation that I am "dumb enough to leave my lid open" and that soon I will "know better" and then start to think like you. I'm not offended. Just pointing out how this is very different from acknowledging two different points of view.

Sharks don't need to be saved from drowning.

Your perspective is valid and real and meaningful to you. My perspective is very different here and it does not come from blind naivete. We are informed by the lives we have lived and the lens we choose to view the world.

No, I told you that the world is like a pressured trash dump, where if you don't close the hatch, it floods in and drowns you with trash. That's my perspective, and if yours is valid, then so is mine.

No. It's not the perspective we choose. I didn't choose my family. They chose to embroil their lives in political conflict, and it made my life a living hell. Through that lens, I then discovered that nobody has compassion, and they're the sort of person who tells homeless people that someone would rent them a house with money they don't have if they would simply view the world more positively. I didn't imagine myself living this way. The world did it to me, and it's beyond offensive to me for someone to insinuate that I realized it with my mind.

I won't even make any commentary as to the irony of the topic in this thread.

 

[Rodafina]

That's my perspective, and if yours is valid, then so is mine.

Please note where I said the exact words, "your perspective is valid."

 

[Levitat0r]

Please note where I said the exact words, "your perspective is valid."

Ok, well, then don't read into it and assume I'm giving you "you'll be sorries" and preemptive "told you so"s. That's not what I meant. I meant that the world is awash with nastiness, and you can't make a difference because almost all of those people are in their element, just like the sharks are.

 

[Levitat0r]

And then nobody has any empathy, nobody is in your corner, and nobody will jump up or help you, or speak up for you, and nobody will give you a dime to help you publish your story.

 

[Cryptid]

It never ceases to amaze me how often self-proclaimed 'empathy' and solipsism can be found coexisting in the same people.

 

[Levitat0r]

I cannot remember any occasion where you posted something that wasn't trolling or backbiting, and I will be blocking you. Your existence can remain a rumor.

It never ceases to amaze me how often self-proclaimed 'empathy' and solipsism can be found coexisting in the same people.e

 

[Cryptid]

Seriously, claiming 'Empathy' is sometimes like when some people claim to have 'Aspiedar' or 'Gaydar' or some other '-dar' that cannot be verified by empirical means. When asked how they know, they claim they just know. And when confronted with real evidence to the contrary, they dig their heels in and claim that either the evidence was incorrectly obtained in some way, or that the persons refuting their claim are lying.

Or when a (now-former) girlfriend falsely claimed that I was angry with her, and kept repeating her claim until I eventually became angry. "See! I was right!" ware among the last things she said to me.

Some people just like playing mind games, I guess.

 

[Au Naturel]

Most people have empathy, but it is strongest for those near and dear. If you felt empathy for everyone you met, it would destroy you. Not sustainable.

Empathy is feeling the emotions of another person. It happens when you extend your definition of self to include a tiny bit of the other person. Your friend feels sad, so you feel a bit of sadness. This isn't feeling sorry for them; that's sympathy. Empathy is feeling sorry with them. Don't even need to know why they are sorry.

It isn't all negative. Your friend feels glad; you share a bit of gladness. It works for any emotion.

Of course, you cannot know if what you feel is the truly same as the other person. It probably isn't too far off since we all have nearly identical genes and biologies and share many experiences. Close enough that the other person can often sense it in you if they are not overwhelmed by their experience. It is reassuring, and they don't feel as alone.

 

[Mr. Stevens]

Arguing over empathy may be one of the defining features of our time.

 

[AuAL]

@Ken, this discussion has taken several discursive diversions, but I wanted to address one, particular point. Recent studies have confirmed that many autistic people experience hyper empathy. The findings from a study at Sheffield Hallam University just last year found 78% of autistic people surveyed reported feeling hyper empathic. They reported feeling empathy in *diverse ways*. So maybe not a lack of empathy so much as a different expression of it.

 

[Greening]

There is a huge difference between empathy and megalomania.

If you, no matter if you are on the autism spectrum or not, have some idea that you can "see through" various humans everywhere, and "feel" what they feel, then you are either moving towards megalomania or is already suffering from it. If you try to find out how other people feel, by interacting with them. having serious and interesting conversations with them, then you are using your ability for empathy.

Empathy is not the same as feeling, for instance, the mood in a room, when you enter it. Empathy goes a step further than that. It happens in a real relationship, where a certain trust is established. As a man on the autism spectrum I find it important to learn when to try to switch my ability for empathy on and off. To use it when it is relevant.

I don't belive, by the way, that people from certain groups, have more or less empathy. I believe different people, despite of which more or less random groups they belong to, have more or less empathy, and for many of them it can change over time, corresponding with a need to be more introvert, for instance.

 

[Tom]

I too have always had what I thought was an strong tendency towards empathy. Very noticable, even from an early age, yet I am on the spectrum. And I don't think that is unusual from what I have gathered after 12 years straight on ASD forums.

On the other hand there do seem to be ASD folks with a low ammount or difficulty processing it.

I would be reluctant therefore to list it as an ASD tendency.

 

[marc_101]

The confusion about autism and empathy is what kept me from understanding ASD. I think it's close to an urban legend that autistic people don't *have* empathy. Empathy can be about feeling what another person feels but it can also be about understanding what the other person is feeling (more intellectually): "The ability to identify with or understand another's situation or feeling."

What applies to me is that sometimes, but not always, I do not *appear* to have emotional or intellectual empathy, but that's because people only see my body or facial expression without having the ability to read my mind. Or sometimes I suppress it on purpose because I don't want to feel the pain.

@Levitator My reading is that @Rodafina is actually listening and empathizing with you. She just doesn't agree with everything you wrote.

 

[Mr. Stevens]

What applies to me is that sometimes, but not always, I do not *appear* to have emotional or intellectual empathy, but that's because people only see my body or facial expression without having the ability to read my mind. Or sometimes I suppress it on purpose because I don't want to feel the pain.

I think this is a good point in general. Some of the empathy "deficit" is really just our difficulty reading non-Autistic expression, as those individuals have trouble reading Autistic expression. It's not quite the same as lacking empathy. Of course it's easy for us to understand people similar to us.

 

[Ken]

So, @Ken, are you saying that in your view, you are the only person you know who is empathetic? In your life, empathy is a characteristic unique to you?

Of course not. I am saying that I have no memory of witnessing it. But, there are zillions of things that I do not understand or can relate to or have the ability to witness. That is just one of them.

Empathy in me is not just feeling someone being hit. In me, I feel their feeling of the hit. However, I do not seem to have as much feeling for other humans. Mine seems far more connected and intense for non-human people.

 

[Rodafina]

Of course not. I am saying that I have no memory of witnessing it. But, there are zillions of things that I do not understand or can relate to or have the ability to witness. That is just one of them.

Empathy in me is not just feeling someone being hit. In me, I feel their feeling of the hit. However, I do not seem to have as much feeling for other humans. Mine seems far more connected and intense for non-human people.

I understand.

 

[Ken]

As I stated in my original post, this post is a rant (yes, from depression). Now, I'm sorry for posting it.
I am not defining anyone or any group of people. However, I do believe that if someone truly has a sense of empathy, they could not be so eager to harm others, much less perform mass murder (war), etc. as they would be feeling the harm they inflict.

I also do think that perhaps I have more empathy than "normal" because if anyone wanted to beat me up or harm me, they would get no resistance. I could not fight back or make any effort to harm them. Been true all my life.

Perhaps Desmond Doss had empathy considering his military story? Or perhaps due to his religion. Same result, either way.