Ex wife of asd partner

[Emg1404]

Abuse is a difficult thing to fully appraise, and can often start with little things, often insignificant, but in them the seeds of a problem between people. These things when not addressed, often through a lack of awareness on both sides, will tend to get worse rather than better. they can often reflect aspects of a relationship that hang over from the beginning, and while invariable of partner will allow this to go to becme them abusing their partner, they often are unaware of it, or suppress their awareness as they have no other way out, so have to continue being abusive.

But also, it is a very unusual relationship where both partners don't have a part in the dynamics that lead to unacceptable levels of abuse. What you may see as his failing in your first point about sexual performance, an issue of enormous sensitivity for many people, and one they are unable to express with ease, if at all. And stuck in this position, they can see their partners unhappiness with the situation as a direct attack on them, in one of their most sensitive spots. If this is the situation, can you understand that you are almost certainly playing a part in it, whether unwittingly, and unmeaning to?

To go through each point would probably seem like an attack against you, which is absolutely not what I intend. So I won't, and to be frank, I think there's more underlying the actual points themselves (or at least some) that could point better to where you both started to fall apart? Sadly I don't have the experience or knowledge to know, I may be quite wrong about what I've written, but I wonder if you've considered any of those thoughts?

I agree , I know I contributed to these in some ways and I believe I have taken responsibility for my hurtful actions -I know that I will have caused him a lot of angst too

In terms of sexual performance-I do understand what I didn’t do enough of …because I viewed that there was no care for my feelings of neglect .

And I don’t care about pride after a certain level .
You are in a partnership and have a family that requires harmony and stability-there’s no time to naval gaze.

I fought to get well from my PND because I had a responsibility to my family to seek help, I Ioved them and I did not want to spread my unhappiness more than I had to

 

[Emg1404]

But would reactive shouting lead to a better outcome for you then?

No but I was at a level of frustration where I was acting from instinct than reason

 

[Boogs]

No but I was at a level of frustration where I was acting from instinct than reason

Totally normal and understandable!

But, if you were to be aware of that unconscious reaction, in the future, could there be a chance that you could stop some of that, and in doing, reduce the chance of triggering unacceptable behaviour directed against you?

I'm not saying you should have to! But we don't live in an ideal world by any means, and finding strategies to protect yourself (which would include your daughter), would that not be a better possibility? Maybe not the best as it should be, but the best that it can be, at least to start with?

I think I'm saying that working on being able to control your own safety as well, may be better than just focussing on your ex as the problem?

 

[Boogs]

No but I was at a level of frustration where I was acting from instinct than reason

I think one source of frustration can be not being able to understand why something is happening, and hence have, or feel you have no control over it.
This is likely to release adrenalin - flight or fight behaviours becoming the most pressing on your mind. So you're forced to run (avoid him somehow) or fight him, which may be what the shouting could have been?
Just a suggestion, only you can know.

 

[Boogs]

I agree , I know I contributed to these in some ways and I believe I have taken responsibility for my hurtful actions -I know that I will have caused him a lot of angst too

Sorry, I missed this reply (I tend to be a little scatty)...
That's good for you then, because the more you come to understand both sides, the better you can process things and come to good decisions, instead of reacting blindly, as can be the case with high emotions.
(I do understand it's easy for me to say these things in the cool of someone else's fears and anxieties! )

In terms of sexual performance-I do understand what I didn’t do enough of …because I viewed that there was no care for my feelings of neglect .

There's no single right answer, no single persons fault. Recognition shouldn't mean self blame, just something to learn and grow from. But some aspects can be a very very vulnerable targets for some people, and sex can be one of the big ones, and can be terribly hard to over come and require much sensitivity and patience on both sides.
And again, so easy to say when it's not me in the picture!

And I don’t care about pride after a certain level .
You are in a partnership and have a family that requires harmony and stability-there’s no time to naval gaze.

I may not understand this right, but if I do(???) - maybe not always, but getting out of the habit of talking about the most deep and maybe difficult things, can allow them to fester in the dark. It's a balance as ever, not one I can lay claim to being good at either!

I fought to get well from my PND because I had a responsibility to my family to seek help, I Ioved them and I did not want to spread my unhappiness more than I had to

It's good that you were able to make or find your motivations to give you the strength to do that, family can often be the pivot that allows people to find more strength than they ever thought they had!

 

[Emg1404]

Totally normal and understandable!

But, if you were to be aware of that unconscious reaction, in the future, could there be a chance that you could stop some of that, and in doing, reduce the chance of triggering unacceptable behaviour directed against you?

I'm not saying you should have to! But we don't live in an ideal world by any means, and finding strategies to protect yourself (which would include your daughter), would that not be a better possibility? Maybe not the best as it should be, but the best that it can be, at least to start with?

I think I'm saying that working on being able to control your own safety as well, may be better than just focussing on your ex as the problem?

Ooh, it smacks a bit of

“Girls , don’t wear short skirts if you don’t want to attract the wrong attention”

One of my central premises in this discussion was to highlight double standards and inequality in the efforts made to create harmony in a NT/ND relationship.

Unfortunately my ex I’m sure held a patriarchal idea that he was entitled to social /emotional things being fixed around him without taking any responsibility for his part in creating the problems

He had to meet me in the middle -non negotiable

 

[Boogs]

Ooh, it smacks a bit of

“Girls , don’t wear short skirts if you don’t want to attract the wrong attention”

That was exactly what i was trying to say! Or that isn't what I was trying to say! (oh no! i'm making it worse! ). If that came across, I'm sorry, my poor communication skills, it wasn't my intent to suggest that at all. More that that's how things should be, but not how they really are! Self protection is important too, for you to be there for your family.

One of my central premises in this discussion was to highlight double standards and inequality in the efforts made to create harmony in a NT/ND relationship.

Harmony - sheessh! That's so far out of any experience in my life I just couldn't say anything at all! Lost for words for once (do I hear a sigh of relief in the thread? ).

Unfortunately my ex I’m sure held a patriarchal idea that he was entitled to social /emotional things being fixed around him without taking any responsibility for his part in creating the problems

He had to meet me in the middle -non negotiable

A bad attitude is a bad attitude wherever it comes. Some of the most wonderful artists and authors have been awful people in many ways. This has no bearing on the art or writing in itself (beyond unpleasant ideas expressed in that output). People are made of many things or parts. Some of them are not always much to do with how or why they have other more toxic aspects. The ADS may have had or have a bearing on how he has behaved with you, but I suspect it's quite possible that he could be quite typical in terms of mental perception and yet still have all those 'problems' (the quotes are to say, the word 'problem' doesn't adequately describe the behaviours). I don't think you mentioned anything that could be labelled as a specific negative behaviour attributable to people in the ADS.
So to my mind, the ADS may make communication harder, but isn't the cause of the problems. These are very 'normal' dysfunctions and sadly far too common among all sorts of people (pretty sure it's mostly men to be frank). Very much to do with control as well, which seemed to be prevalent in much of what you mentioned.
It seems immature, but now I'm reaching, not being a qualified psychologist or psychiatrist or similar!

 

[Emg1404]

That was exactly what i was trying to say! Or that isn't what I was trying to say! (oh no! i'm making it worse! ). If that came across, I'm sorry, my poor communication skills, it wasn't my intent to suggest that at all. More that that's how things should be, but not how they really are! Self protection is important too, for you to be there for your family.

Harmony - sheessh! That's so far out of any experience in my life I just couldn't say anything at all! Lost for words for once (do I hear a sigh of relief in the thread? ).

A bad attitude is a bad attitude wherever it comes. Some of the most wonderful artists and authors have been awful people in many ways. This has no bearing on the art or writing in itself (beyond unpleasant ideas expressed in that output). People are made of many things or parts. Some of them are not always much to do with how or why they have other more toxic aspects. The ADS may have had or have a bearing on how he has behaved with you, but I suspect it's quite possible that he could be quite typical in terms of mental perception and yet still have all those 'problems' (the quotes are to say, the word 'problem' doesn't adequately describe the behaviours). I don't think you mentioned anything that could be labelled as a specific negative behaviour attributable to people in the ADS.
So to my mind, the ADS may make communication harder, but isn't the cause of the problems. These are very 'normal' dysfunctions and sadly far too common among all sorts of people (pretty sure it's mostly men to be frank). Very much to do with control as well, which seemed to be prevalent in much of what you mentioned.
It seems immature, but now I'm reaching, not being a qualified psychologist or psychiatrist or similar!

Thank you so much for your wisdom and engagement-I’m very touched .

I’m in the UK so it’s wind down time

I really appreciate all of your advice

 

[Alexej]

@Emg1404

I have nothing to add to the conversation, other than to say that my heart goes out to you.
May you know wisdom in the situation that you find yourself in.
may you find wisdom
and
May you heed her advice

 

[Hypnalis]

I agree but avoidant can be just as destructive . You are still choosing to do something that I would argue benefits the chooser and if this is repeated over years

The old adage -doing nothing is still doing something

Avoidant can be destructive, and it's a behavior that can cause trouble for people who are close to Aspies.
But what you listed isn't primarily avoidant behaviors. I don't think typical ASD behaviors are the most likely cause.
IMO you're describing "Dark Triad" behavior.

Two questions for you:
1. Has your husband been formally diagnosed as ASD? If so, when on the 15-year timeline ?
2. How were you able buy a house immediately after the divorce? Did receive enough from the divorce settlement to buy a house?

If an Aspie is told they are hurting someone’s feelings what is an acceptable length of time to be patient ?

Perhaps a technical comment, but:

This is a "leading question". You're trying to make me agree indirectly to an assertion imbedded in the question. Please don't use this with me again.
NB: This doesn't apply to others of course. I'm not trying to constrain other peoples' right to respond to any post.

 

[Boogs]

Thank you so much for your wisdom and engagement-I’m very touched .

I’m in the UK so it’s wind down time

I really appreciate all of your advice

Thank you, I hope it is of some help, even if only churning the thoughts.
Have a nice evening, and good luck with everything! I wish you some peace with your family! x

 

[Outdated]

Unfortunately my ex I’m sure held a patriarchal idea that he was entitled to social /emotional things being fixed around him without taking any responsibility for his part in creating the problems

I'd say that although your ex husband might be autistic autism is not his biggest problem and it is not the defining theme of his character. Some of the words I'd use to describe him aren't allowed in here, I'm glad you got out of that situation.

 

[Crossbreed]

I am trying to establish whether my ex husband’s actions were abusive , actions I justified to myself as being something he could not control.

While autism is a vague cloud, you won't be able to establish that.
If you get a reasonably good map of autism, you can better suss out your marriage difficulties AND be there for you daughter.

 

[NB79]

Hi Welcome.

I recommend youtube channel "Mark Hutten MA"
It deals with this same issue.

 

[kenaij]

I know other have already responded to some of the points regarding the things you considered abusive. But I still want to chime in because I think some things have not been said. The first point got to me. Not because I`m in a similar situation but because I think something is not adressed yet. It goes of of an assumption but it could be a possibility. A lot of autistic people are asexual. His ED could be part of that. He might not crave any sexual activity. He first went with you to a doctor. But if he has little to no sexual desire it might feel very forceful to engage in sex with you. Doing something in a relationship for someone else is one thing. But doing something you might be uncomfortable with for you partner is something else. Again this is an assumption to point out a possibility. But even if this were the case it would be up to him to communicate this to you.

All this money stuff. You are right. In a relationship financial choices must be made by both parties. Unless one partner refuses to work I could see an acception. But this does not seem to be the case for you.
When he was not willing to spend 50 pounds on nursery did he provide other solutions? Like taking your child to your parents or some other options? Or did he simply expect you to take care or her regardless of your PND?

Point 8 about him giving your daughter affection but not you might not be a case of being too complicated. If I was right in my original point it might have to do with the affection towards your daughter being non sexual (as it should be) and affection towards you to be sexual.

I don`t really get the point about not wanting to teach her how to ride a bike. This is not only a father's job and both parents can do this. The skiing might come down to him thinking skiing is dangerous (which it can be) and him not wanting to put his daughter at risk. This comes down to communication again. And saying he does not like skiing does not explain anything.

It is sad he does not accept her autism diagnosis. Might be because he recognises too much of himself in her and it confrontational. Still. I hope he will start accepting her diagnosis.

 

[Crossbreed]

His ED could be part of that. He might not crave any sexual activity.

I don't know how prevalent that is...

Spoiler: Maybe, TMI...

The only thing that torpedoed our love life was my non-ASD wife's depression.

 

[Hypnalis]

It is sad he does not accept her autism diagnosis. Might be because he recognises too much of himself in her and it confrontational. Still. I hope he will start accepting her diagnosis.

I'm not convinced this is a significant influence on the daughter's life.

The evidence suggests he loves his daughter, accepts her for who/what she is, and she likes spending time with him.

The daughter (at 12?) is prepared to request changes in her father's behavior, and got what she asked for.
This one is very significant to me, though it's implied in "she likes to spend time with him". IMO it's quite good evidence that the daughter is being genuinely well treated, and is not being subjected to any "Dark Triad" forms of psychological pressure.

Bottom line - the situation may well be a little less then perfect, but there's no indication of actual problems due to the father's position on the diagnosis.

Note that these comments have been colored by what I view as a very poor environment for identifying and "treating" ASD. I don't personally see a downside to being cautious about exposing ASD1 children to current "ASD medial practices".

 

[kenaij]

I'm not convinced this is a significant influence on the daughter's life.

The evidence suggests he loves his daughter, accepts her for who/what she is, and she likes spending time with him.

The daughter (at 12?) is prepared to request changes in her father's behavior, and got what she asked for.
This one is very significant to me, though it's implied in "she likes to spend time with him". IMO it's quite good evidence that the daughter is being genuinely well treated, and is not being subjected to any "Dark Triad" forms of psychological pressure.

Bottom line - the situation may well be a little less then perfect, but there's no indication of actual problems due to the father's position on the diagnosis.

Note that these comments have been colored by what I view as a very poor environment for identifying and "treating" ASD. I don't personally see a downside to being cautious about exposing ASD1 children to current "ASD medial practices".

It was not my intention to suggest he is a bad father to his daughter. I agree with everything you say about him regarding his daughter. What I was trying to say. Is that him not awknowledging his daughter has ASD could be confusing to her. If a docter and your mother tell you you are. But you father says you are not it could cause confusion.

Not exactly the same. But I work with teenage kids and there is a girl who has ADHD. She has been officially diagnosed. School and her mother have accepted she has ADHD. But her father is dismissing the diagnosis. Stating she is just a high energy kid who needs to learn how to behave. The two different sides are very conflicting for this girl. On one hand she has a good explanation of why she does certain things while others seem to be able to control it. Why she is sent out of class so often while she herself thinks she did nothing wrong etc. And on the other side she has a parent who she loves telling her this is all BS and she should just behave better.

That is the reason why I say I hope he accepts her diagnosis. So it does not put this child in a position where she might question the diagnosis.

 

[AspieChris]

Many parents become parents as a way of “competing” with other people. Family members, co-workers, etc. Everyone knows someone who won’t shut up about how strong, smart, or successful their child is. And we all have experienced that guy at work who is constantly showing off pictures of his son/daughter. Worse even is Grandpa bragging about his grandchildren.

Sometimes, accepting a diagnosis that a man’s son or daughter has a defecit is just an admission of defeat. It’s wrong to say that a young person who has ASD or ADHD is broken, but that’s exactly how the world perceives us. Men are competitive by nature. That diagnosis might just mean than he’ll never get a gold medal.

 

[kenaij]

Many parents become parents as a way of “competing” with other people. Family members, co-workers, etc. Everyone knows someone who won’t shut up about how strong, smart, or successful their child is. And we all have experienced that guy at work who is constantly showing off pictures of his son/daughter. Worse even is Grandpa bragging about his grandchildren.

Sometimes, accepting a diagnosis that a man’s son or daughter has a defecit is just an admission of defeat. It’s wrong to say that a young person who has ASD or ADHD is broken, but that’s exactly how the world perceives us. Men are competitive by nature. That diagnosis might just mean than he’ll never get a gold medal.

I wish this was total bs. But sadly it is probably the truth for most men.