greeting from Canada

[NeuroQuest]

All - just want to thank you all for making me feel welcome, and for your various responses and replies. I honestly feel like I have found a community to belong to, and that's been a pretty rare occurrence in my life so far. Please bear with me as I figure out how to find and start threads, etc., and learn more about all of you. Cheers.

 

[Shevek]

OK - trying to get the hang of where to put things, so appreciate your patience. The following was mistakenly started as a blog, and then probably mistakenly attached to the wrong thread, and so I retreating to my initial thread in hopes of not messing up. sigh. I would love to hear if the following resonates with anyone in the Forum. One of the very frustrating things I have found in life is the use of language. I do not have any overt difficulty with language. If you met me you might think I was pretty articulate, but this is because I have quite a library of memorized mental “scripts” to draw from. These scripts help me mask the fact that I experience a significant disconnect between language and the way my thinking works.

According to Temple Grandin, at least, some people think in words, some people think in patterns/mathematics, and some people are visual thinkers. I don’t think I fall into any of these types, but maybe patterns. My thoughts manifest as what I can only describe as an "aroma" or feelings of associations between concepts. Words don’t do the feeling justice. It’s a feeling of the “direction of possible knowing”, the way a dog might catch the scent of something unknown in the air and then track the smell. It's as if my mind creates a complex web of interconnected ideas and impressions, each with its own distinct aroma that I can sense and navigate.

This non-linear, non-linguistic way of thinking can be incredibly powerful for making unusual connections and insights, in my experience. However, it presents significant challenges when it comes to communicating my thoughts to others. I often find myself struggling to translate these rich, multidimensional web of connections into the linear structure of language. This difficulty in rapid translation makes real-time conversations particularly challenging. While others seem to effortlessly exchange ideas in a fluid back-and-forth, I often find myself needing more time to process and respond. This can lead to awkward pauses, misunderstandings, or the perception that I'm not engaged in the conversation when in reality, my mind is working overtime to keep up. Often, when I get asked a question, I am at a complete loss for words and so remain quiet so long the conversation has moved on to other things. This slow pace of communication has often left me feeling isolated, unable to share my inner world with others.

Even writing, which allows for more time to organize thoughts, can be a very laborious process. I might spend hours crafting a single paragraph, trying to find the right words to capture the essence of what I'm thinking. Just as with my other thought processes, I operate by “feel” or sense of “aroma” and if there is something wrong with the words or syntax that I have written, even if I would struggle to verbally articulate what it is. It’s almost as if written sentences are algebraic equations and I can just sense if there is a flaw in the equation.

Does any of this ring a bell with anyone? Thanks for reading through this!

I think a lot in words and pictures, but also have some of that sense for a gestalt beyond language. I know right away if something can be captured in a mathematical model, even if I can't build it with what I already know. When I was on a committee evaluating ideas for saving energy, I took on the job of filtering out the perpetual-motion machines, which I could spot instantly through any jungle. If there's a false assumption in the foundations of an argument, I know it, even if it takes logic years to finally spot it.

I also suffer from slow verbal and written communication. When speaking, my full attention is on finding words, so I don't see any reactions. I won't say "umm" or repeat myself, so I usually speak briefly and not take enough time for comprehension. Hearing others repeat points really offends me for wasting my time.

If I hear a fact that I think I can use frequently, I remember it. Otherwise, I easily ignore chatter. I entered Gr. 9 at age 12, but I never learned to study, and was only interested in a couple of courses, so I flunked out at 17. I went to the library for my special interests, and was next seen in a classroom guest-lecturing to graduating engineers.

 

[Shevek]

It’s important to learn the patterns of whatever language or culture you are living in.
How are you? Fine
How was your weekend? Great
How was your holiday? Terrific.

These are just communication patterns of social life.

When I need to function in a different language, after I learn the basics (please, thank you, where is the bathroom) I next learn common verbal exchanges. It makes everything easier for everyone.

Maybe this would all be easier for us if we thought of it as communicating in a foreign culture.

When Alberto Ascari went to drive the Indianapolis 500, he decided he should learn one word of English. He chose "Fine." Everything was either "Fine" or "Fine, fine."

 

[Shevek]

I'm from Sydney too, but down under.

I once had roommates from Sydney, Oz, and a friend doing business in Sidney, BC, and Sydney, NS, Canada. When they left, they were replaced by a guy with the same name as myself, except for spelling. That was lots of fun.

 

[Tired]

I once had roommates from Sydney, Oz, and a friend doing business in Sidney, BC, and Sydney, NS, Canada. When they left, they were replaced by a guy with the same name as myself, except for spelling. That was lots of fun.

Shevik?

 

[jsilver256]

I would love to hear if the following resonates with anyone in the Forum. One of the very frustrating things I have found in life is the use of language. I do not have any overt difficulty with language. If you met me you might think I was pretty articulate, but this is because I have quite a library of memorized mental “scripts” to draw from. These scripts help me mask the fact that I experience a significant disconnect between language and the way my thinking works.

Yes, I'm deaf and did not speak/write coherently until age 7. I had extreme problems with word order and pronouns. This was all blamed on being deaf, but oddly enough, no other Deaf person I know had this problem.

Under what you outlined, I am an extreme visual thinker. I have the super-fun combo of hyperphantasia and anauralia. If I am composing something in my head, I will think of it visually, e.g., if thinking of how to write a post on the forum, I'll see my laptop, my hands typing, my web browser, etc. There's a bit of mathematical/pattern thinking in terms of coding.

No language is ever involved, but at this point I've written so much that it isn't a struggle to put thought to text anymore.

Edit: The first time someone asked me how I could read despite being deaf, and I figured out they "read" to themselves and hear a voice in their head, I thought they were schizophrenic.

 

[Jumpinbare]

Shevik?

Shevack, I think.

 

[WhitewaterWoman]

I think a lot in words and pictures, but also have some of that sense for a gestalt beyond language. I know right away if something can be captured in a mathematical model, even if I can't build it with what I already know. When I was on a committee evaluating ideas for saving energy, I took on the job of filtering out the perpetual-motion machines, which I could spot instantly through any jungle. If there's a false assumption in the foundations of an argument, I know it, even if it takes logic years to finally spot it.

I also suffer from slow verbal and written communication. When speaking, my full attention is on finding words, so I don't see any reactions. I won't say "umm" or repeat myself, so I usually speak briefly and not take enough time for comprehension. Hearing others repeat points really offends me for wasting my time.

If I hear a fact that I think I can use frequently, I remember it. Otherwise, I easily ignore chatter. I entered Gr. 9 at age 12, but I never learned to study, and was only interested in a couple of courses, so I flunked out at 17. I went to the library for my special interests, and was next seen in a classroom guest-lecturing to graduating engineers.

Interesting because as I am integrating myself into the local culture, ie my rural neighbors, I am learning this characteristic is a part of their speech habits.

It just confused me. I am thinking to myself, why are they saying the same sentence over and over. Not all at once. Other sentences come between, but still?

I am thinking, are they repeating the sentence because they don’t think I understand? Or maybe, now that I am writing this out, because I haven’t given the culturally correct response. Oh. No.

And I don’t know what that might be.

For the present, I am trying to clearly say the same thing, ie verbal reflection. No idea if that is correct or not.

 

[Shevek]

Interesting because as I am integrating myself into the local culture, ie my rural neighbors, I am learning this characteristic is a part of their speech habits.

It just confused me. I am thinking to myself, why are they saying the same sentence over and over. Not all at once. Other sentences come between, but still?

I am thinking, are they repeating the sentence because they don’t think I understand? Or maybe, now that I am writing this out, because I haven’t given the culturally correct response. Oh. No.

And I don’t know what that might be.

For the present, I am trying to clearly say the same thing, ie verbal reflection. No idea if that is correct or not.

Well, there's just plain fuzzy thinking, but I've noticed that a lot of educators present each point three different ways to give more students a chance to see it their way, or catch it after being distracted earlier. Sometimes I can get too busy when listening as I try to trace what I've been reminded of so I can file the new stuff, or add something related to the conversation. Overall, I prefer writing because it is easier to skip the background stuff if I already know it.

 

[WhitewaterWoman]

Well, there's just plain fuzzy thinking, but I've noticed that a lot of educators present each point three different ways to give more students a chance to see it their way, or catch it after being distracted earlier. Sometimes I can get too busy when listening as I try to trace what I've been reminded of so I can file the new stuff, or add something related to the conversation. Overall, I prefer writing because it is easier to skip the background stuff if I already know it.

I’m pretty sure this is a cultural thing of some sort.

My mother taught me I was never to accept an offer of cookies or cake - this is when I was a kid - until the third time it was offered.

[bolded] That why I pretty much hate you tube videos. So much time spent on introductions and other stuff irrelevant to what I want to know.

 

[Jumpinbare]

That why I pretty much hate you tube videos. So much time spent on introductions and other stuff irrelevant to what I want to know.

1 People are too lazy to read
2 Videos subject you to commercials that text doesn't, and commercials make youtube and posters money.
3 I hate wading through videos when I know how to read.

 

[Outdated]

My mother taught me I was never to accept an offer of cookies or cake - this is when I was a kid - until the third time it was offered.

Hard rules like that always end up creating problems. In many eastern Mediteranean cultures to refuse like that is incredibly insulting. Especially with Greek and Turkish people, refusing food is exactly the same as refusing to shake hands.

Then there's Aussies who will assume you genuinely don't want any and not offer a second time. We're mostly straight talkers.

And to me some youtube videos are entertaining but other than that they're pretty useless. I really hate the new AI generated search results because we can no longer exclude results from our searches. I used to be able to add "-youtube -facebook" to my searches to exclude those results but we can't do that any more.

 

[WhitewaterWoman]

Hard rules like that always end up creating problems. In many eastern Mediteranean cultures to refuse like that is incredibly insulting. Especially with Greek and Turkish people, refusing food is exactly the same as refusing to shake hands.

But the refusing three times rule is the rule in the Midwest US. Or at least it was when I was growing up.

Then there's Aussies who will assume you genuinely don't want any and not offer a second time. We're mostly straight talkers.

I found that out when I moved to New York. You get one chance to accept.

And to me some youtube videos are entertaining but other than that they're pretty useless. I really hate the new AI generated search results because we can no longer exclude results from our searches. I used to be able to add "-youtube -facebook" to my searches to exclude those results but we can't do that any more.

We just started getting AI generated answers, I don’t like them either. My plant app is also proving AI answers to questions on plant care.

 

[Outdated]

But the refusing three times rule is the rule in the Midwest US. Or at least it was when I was growing up.

Half of what I was taught as a kid ended up being backwards too. With the end of the White Australia Policy and the flood of immigration that came with it lots of things changed. It's a much better place than it used to be though, we'll never allow ourselves to stoop that low again.

 

[WhitewaterWoman]

Half of what I was taught as a kid ended up being backwards too. With the end of the White Australia Policy and the flood of immigration that came with it lots of things changed. It's a much better place than it used to be though, we'll never allow ourselves to stoop that low again.

That’s what I thought in my country. Oh, how far we have fallen!

 

[Shevek]

All - just want to thank you all for making me feel welcome, and for your various responses and replies. I honestly feel like I have found a community to belong to, and that's been a pretty rare occurrence in my life so far. Please bear with me as I figure out how to find and start threads, etc., and learn more about all of you. Cheers.

We hijacked your thread while you were thinking, but you can claim it back any time.