Honesty and masking

[Full Steam]

My version,with my wife, for the 2nd occurence is :

Look intently at hair. You definitely don't look like a lego minifig.

Repeat joke, too mamy times... hear ENOUGH.
Stop joke

At least you knew when to stop.

 

[Fallenwolf]

Honestly, I'm frankly tired of everyone having masks and lying with an agenda behind it. I've been watching so many youtube videos about how to go about dating, how to lie to get what you want, or lie to try and use people. And frankly I find it all disgusting. Me being NT, in an NT world disgusts me 85% of the time. I have become so cynical that it always feels like someone is only wanting to talk to you, or show you the time of day only to find out they want something from you. It's rare finding people who want to talk to you or hang out with you for just......you. And when you do happen to stumble across a person with no agenda, you can't help but over think that somewhere in there they probably do, when they really don't. This world has gotten most of us so used to it, and it's hard to appreciate the ones that don't want to just "use" people.

And now having an AS bf, I'm starting to appreciate that about him and not having to worry so much about all the mind games in our relationship. I'm at a point of my life where I can clearly see through mind games and being "fake" and it just disappoints me and drains me. I actually rather be around people who are truthful, then to be with someone who lies and constantly puts up a "front/mask". And here's why:

1. If you're truthful with me, it saves both of us a lot of time. I'm tried of wasting time, especially in relationships. I rather someone be up front with me about liking/or not liking something then for them to lie and then find out down the road it finally ate away at them and they were just faking the whole time. I don't know how many times I've had someone say months/years later they never really cared for the thing, and it feels like that breaks my heart even more instead of if they would of just said the truth from the get go.

2. You get to the root of the issue way faster then just covering the problem up with a "bandaid". I know many people, especially Nt's, aren't ready to hear the truth to a lot of what's causing their problems, but what is the point of them continuiously 'sweeping things under the carpet' as if expecting the problem to go way or solve itself. I'm more rather be cut and dry and try to address the issue as quickly and easily as possible.

3. If I can clearly see you being fake/wearing a mask, it only really upsets me even more, cause then I feel like you're up to something.

Now I'm not all against small white lies here and there, as it does help others moods brighten up, but that's when you have to strategically know when to lie for the good of others, especially if it's something small where you know it's not going to really effect anything that drastically. As Belle Pines said,

"I see that she is upset and so next time I complement her on her hair, I say that it is a great haircut. I am wearing a mask and speaking against my opinion (it looked just as bad as the first time), but I am speaking HER truth. She accepts it and we are happy.

So there is no real "truth" and I am not deceiving her, I am simply speaking her opinion which to her is the "truth". I am being technically honest and deceitful at the same time."


it seems much easier and better for both parties if you agree with what they see as "truth" in the little things like their appearance, their cooking, etc. I will say white lies, help a lot with NT's but if you come across NT's like me, if I can see threw your lie easily, it only pisses me off even more. So I would say it also depends on the person really, if you know if they can handle the truth, and you know they would rather have the truth then lie or someone who would be much happier with a lie.

 

[WereBear]

“Apple is the best pie” is an opinion.

“Gravity is always present on Earth” is a fact.

The search for truth must distinguish between these two. Are there objective truths in the Universe? Of course. We need oxygen to live. The sun is too hot to step on. I love cats.

What I don’t think we do is change what we think or feel based on what other people tell us we have to think or feel. I don’t think it actually is that easy for NTs who are so swayed to do this.

But most of us think it’s pointless to even try.

 

[pax]

I've always hated that phrase (cue deep south Dr Phill voice) "There is no truth only perception" because it's bulldust , and it keeps getting trotted out by the Dr Phills and Tony Robbinses like it's the answer to everything.

Perhaps if we tried to respect other's opinions* ( within reason) Instead of insisting our PERCEPTION is TRUTH the world would be a better place.

*NRA, George Pell, and certain others excluded

 

[flawedplan]

It's a thing, actually, Radical Honesty. There are different, softer versions of it around. The founder at the website here is an old guy who trained with some of the major theorists of Humanistic Psychology, a branch studied in universities. I care about things like this in life. The things my B/F and I fight about center around stuff like trust, courage, honesty and emotional-risk-taking. He is autistic and we often bewilder each other about these matters. https://www.radicalhonesty.com/

 

[WereBear]

It's a thing, actually, Radical Honesty.

Yes, I know, and I also follow it, actually.

What is important in the way I practice it is that it is for myself. Sharing it with the world requires judgement and diplomacy

 

[Progster]

We have to become aware of our own words, and the beliefs behind them.

Actually, I slipped up in that post. I am usually very careful with my choice of words, and take care to add qualifiers such as 'many' or 'some' or 'tend to' or 'generally', so as not to make generalizations. I have a personal rule for posting on internet forums that I should never make statements that I can't back up or defend if put under scrutiny. I guess I wasn't concentrating and wrote something that sounded too much like a generalization.

 

[flawedplan]

WereBear, are we talking about the same thing? In Radical Honesty diplomacy is one of the first things to go. The whole point is to share your truth with the world, openly and without reservation, or what would be the need for Radical Honesty? Being honest strategically is pretty much what everyone's already doing every day. Being honest radically is a whole different path.

 

[Catana]

Actually, I slipped up in that post. I am usually very careful with my choice of words, and take care to add qualifiers such as 'many' or 'some' or 'tend to' or 'generally', so as not to make generalizations. I have a personal rule for posting on internet forums that I should never make statements that I can't back up or defend if put under scrutiny. I guess I wasn't concentrating and wrote something that sounded too much like a generalization.

I'm sure even I do that, once in a while. But I've become almost allergic to generalizations with either state directly, or imply, that something applies to everyone. The media is particularly guilty, at least the headline writers.

 

[WereBear]

Being honest radically is a whole different path.

Yes, and there are radical circumstances in which I operate with it. Currently crafting a small business that is based on Radical Honesty, in fact.

But I still have to make a living. And while I'm honest there... I don't get radical.

 

[flawedplan]

That sounds sensible and of course I'm the same way. I just feel compromised about doing it, ruminate, and try to squeeze in some authenticity to see what happens, just to torture myself.

Anyways. I hardly ever throw books in the trash, but I tossed PRACTICING RH because I felt I could never live up to it and couldn't handle the book staring at me from the shelf. But like Brad says "Radical honesty -- works pretty good -- most of the time!"

Your RH-based small business sounds intriguing, I hope to learn more about supporting it going forward.

 

[WereBear]

That sounds sensible and of course I'm the same way. I just feel compromised about doing it, ruminate, and try to squeeze in some authenticity to see what happens, just to torture myself.

If you want some radical honesty (and of course you do!) I think you are being too hard on yourself. My relationships have all improved greatly when I am honest about what I think and what I want. My career (such as it is) has been the result of my acknowledging things about myself that turned out to be not character flaws , but aspects of my being on the Spectrum. I've been honest at work at every opportunity; while still being mindful of the facade an office environment requires. I also temper my honesty with the caveat that I am coming from MY viewpoint, with MY interests and skills; and someone else may work differently and need different things.

I am a Taoist and this is all about acknowledging Reality.

Your RH-based small business sounds intriguing, I hope to learn more about supporting it going forward.

I have a website about my cat advice. My husband makes products for our store and I am almost done with my book on the subject. I used Radical Honesty to come up with a cat care, training, and affection system my fans are thrilled with.

It is based on the radical honesty that cats are thinking and feeling beings who respond to love.

 

[Fridgemagnetman]

is based on the radical honesty that cats are thinking and feeling beings who respond to love.

What about me?


Great post again to your usual high standard...
Annoyingly good

 

[WereBear]

Annoyingly good

Highest praise!

 

[AO1501]

...Autists are reputed to be paragons of no-holds barred honesty, at the same time they lead lives of absolute deception, which they admit in their own words....

Masking is not a case of lying to others about who you are, it's about surviving in a world that is made and dominated by others, who are not like you, and don't understand you. It isn't a deception, it's an attempt at acceptance and inclusion. If you don't mask, chances are you'll never get a job doing anything meaningful, or keep it if you get one, even though you may be the one most suited for the job. But without masking 'you don't play well with the team' and get passed over or let go.

Masking isn't a deception, its a defence, made necessary because otherwise you'll be treated as defective, faulty, needing to be fixed, as less-than, as an object of curiosity or pity, as a deficit, when you are none of those things. As oddly contrary as it may sound, masking makes you seem more like 'them', which allows you to be more comfortable as yourself.

 

[WereBear]

Besides, NeuroTypicals mask too! They just don't seem to be as aware of it

 

[flawedplan]

Neurotypicals are the standard? I thought they were the foil. They have the same reasons for lying that are listed in this thread. I don't have a problem with this. My problem is, it's just frankly discombobulating, like, yesterday I read 5 separate websites about Aspergers and 4 of them praised the community as no-holds-barred truthtellers. Go fall in love with one right now! They never lie!

I know who tells the truth in America. I can give you their names. It's a very short list. You might call Radical Honesty™ my special interest, except I have too goddamn many.

One more thing I'll toss out there -- I have a background in disability rights advocacy. Not in the streets activism, but policy advocacy -- where you sit in legislative commitees and argue over Housing First Block Grants and Medicaid funding formulas. Masking and passing and staying in the closet never got these communities a penny of the money that's coming to them. Telling the truth about your social limitations can be a life or death decision. Not to mention totally transformative and liberating, but I said I'll stop now.

 

[Gracey]

..."Radical Honesty means you tell the people in your life what you've done or plan to do. What you think and what you feel. It's the kind of authentic sharing that creates the possibility of love and intimacy."




Is there a time limit on telling people what I've done or plan to do (5 minutes?, 15? 20? A whole afternoon?) How do I know when to stop?

Telling people what I think (when asked) or what I feel (presuming I feel any way about something) to date, hasn't created possibilities of love and intimacy.
Chased down the street with pitchforks, ostracised, threats of physical violence and much judgement and many labels but certainly not love and intimacy.

Authentic sharing,? Would that be similar to over sharing?

I may feel the same way as your boyfriend, "bewildered"

Why does my honesty create offence and your brand of honesty gets you love and intimacy?

Are you masking the absolute truth?

"Does this dress make me look fat?"
"It's not the dress that's doing it, it's your diet and lifestyle"
??

 

[Full Steam]

Neurotypicals are the standard? I thought they were the foil. They have the same reasons for lying that are listed in this thread. I don't have a problem with this. My problem is, it's just frankly discombobulating, like, yesterday I read 5 separate websites about Aspergers and 4 of them praised the community as no-holds-barred truthtellers. Go fall in love with one right now! They never lie!

I know who tells the truth in America. I can give you their names. It's a very short list. You might call Radical Honesty™ my special interest, except I have too goddamn many.

One more thing I'll toss out there -- I have a background in disability rights advocacy. Not in the streets activism, but policy advocacy -- where you sit in legislative commitees and argue over Housing First Block Grants and Medicaid funding formulas. Masking and passing and staying in the closet never got these communities a penny of the money that's coming to them. Telling the truth about your social limitations can be a life or death decision. Not to mention totally transformative and liberating, but I said I'll stop now.

I think we tend to see little point in agendas and in lying, and I guess that's what the websites you read were referring to. That probably makes our forums far more truthful than most places you'd find.

I don't actually agree with the concept of 100% honesty as being anything to live up to or desire. It's a flawed concept.

I'm happy being honest with you about that as I'm sure it's not going to upset you or rock your world.

If you were asking a question where the truthful answer would cause you grief with very little chance for anyone to benefit, then I would not tell you the truth. To do so would be callous and show little to no empathy.

 

[Gracey]

If you were asking a question where the truthful answer would cause you grief with very little chance for anyone to benefit, then I would not tell you the truth. To do so would be callous and show little to no empathy.

Is this the definition of masking @fullsteam?