How Do Kids With Asperger's Look At Parents?

[Ylva]

I did not shout. But I'm starting to wonder of aspies don't know the difference.

If it's painful vocal sounds, who cares about the difference? And if it is a parent being hostile to you, who cares what they "intended" to convey? There is pain and there is threat and that takes priority.

 

[Effy]

I did not shout. But I'm starting to wonder of aspies don't know the difference. I'm sorry you had abusive parents growing up. i wouldn't dream of ever doing the things you described to my daughter.

I don't understand the point of raising your voice. The older I grew, the more I'd understand it - it means someone is mad, and if they're shouting at me, they must be mad at me, and that's scary - it makes me want to crawl into a hole and stay there, escape.

If it's painful vocal sounds, who cares about the difference? And if it is a parent being hostile to you, who cares what they "intended" to convey? There is pain and there is threat and that takes priority.

Yes! It's startling.

You have to consider we're in sensory overload. We hear sounds and smell so many things. Your whispering to your husband about us about what you don't know what is wrong with us/why we won't listen/etc.? We can hear that if we catch it.

Perhaps, if she does wind up having it, you could learn about how to communicate with aspies? Yelling just scares us, if anything at all.

...It also teaches us. My mom yelled at me, and I was like, "Oh. So... I yell when I'm mad/want to get things across? Got it." She's learning from you. You're one of the few humans she gets to watch. I see my aspieness as being an alien, watching humans (non-aspies) to learn how to react, be, etc. Kids already do this with their parents, but aspies literally do it, meaning they use THAT behavior that you represent and really believe it's how you're supposed to act.

I'm not sure if I'm explaining this well. :|

 

[my_special_daughter]

I don't understand the point of raising your voice. The older I grew, the more I'd understand it - it means someone is mad, and if they're shouting at me, they must be mad at me, and that's scary - it makes me want to crawl into a hole and stay there, escape.


Yes! It's startling.

You have to consider we're in sensory overload. We hear sounds and smell so many things. Your whispering to your husband about us about what you don't know what is wrong with us/why we won't listen/etc.? We can hear that if we catch it.

Perhaps, if she does wind up having it, you could learn about how to communicate with aspies? Yelling just scares us, if anything at all.

...It also teaches us. My mom yelled at me, and I was like, "Oh. So... I yell when I'm mad/want to get things across? Got it." She's learning from you. You're one of the few humans she gets to watch. I see my aspieness as being an alien, watching humans (non-aspies) to learn how to react, be, etc. Kids already do this with their parents, but aspies literally do it, meaning they use THAT behavior that you represent and really believe it's how you're supposed to act.

I'm not sure if I'm explaining this well. :|

I don't know either. if i woulda known id get such a negative response i wouldn't have posted at all

 

[Randomperson]

I did not shout. But I'm starting to wonder of aspies don't know the difference. I'm sorry you had abusive parents growing up. i wouldn't dream of ever doing the things you described to my daughter.

I did not intend to say you did shout, more to say that if you raise your voice, at least to me, it is shouting. And depending on the individual and their autism, there are other influences to consider. But the best way to deal with someone who does not understand what is going on, what they have done to upset you, or why you might be raising your voice is to not raise it. Calm soothing tones, with the same words you were already useing, will have a much better chance of getting the message through. Does that make sense?

 

[Kari Suttle]

Okay...so last night our whole family was outside and we were playing some games when my husband had asked my daughter (whose awaiting testing) to stay outside. she had gotten upset because she wanted every turn to ne her turn and stomped off. she kept walking and didn't listen. i told her to come sit down and after a few times i raised my voice and told her to move it. that started the water works. so i explained how she wasn't listening and that's why i had to raise my voice. I told her i loved her after and she refused to say it back. this has been happening recently. if i have to be strict with her she acts like I don't love her..won't hug me won't be around me. so what is going on inside of that brain of hers?

Rereading your original post (because by now i'm really confused as to what you're asking, now)...your interaction with your daughter sounds a lot like what my mom did with me growing up. She would raise her voice with me like she did any other kid of hers, not being mean by any means. But me being me it always felt threatening because louder means anger, threat, disapproval, and i'd just want to hide from it. Of course she'd always end up really yelling so idk how relevant this is seeing as i dont believe you said you yelled. XD She would always appologize and say i love you and all that afterwards later on but i never felt like it no matter how often she said it. I don't reply when they say i love you anymore cause to me i feel like its a half-love. Like they love me until i **** up then its all hell breaks loose. But that's just me. Oh and you said that you wondered if aspies can't tell the difference between shouting and raising your voice...idk if u were serious about that but sometimes i really can't. I don't see a difference most of the time, to be honest. Anyways i'll shut up now.

I don't know either. if i woulda known id get such a negative response i wouldn't have posted at all

 

[etbe]

Some Suggestions for Parents of Aspies « Russell Coker's Documents

I've written an article with some suggestions for parents of Aspies. It's based on my own experience and that of other people on AspiesForFreedom (a forum that has since been shut down). If anyone has any suggestions for improvements please let me know.

 

[rollerskate]

NO ONE has been trying to be rude to you here. We've all been trying to explain to you how it may have been perceived on her end based on our own experiences, and how such a situation can be improved upon in the future. If you ask a question about Aspies here, you get an honest answer from other Aspies.

I'm guessing you took "I don't understand..." as a personal attack of some sort? But that person literally meant they didn't understand...

I don't know either. if i woulda known id get such a negative response i wouldn't have posted at all

 

[AsheSkyler]

A lot of kids have trouble learning to wait their turn anyway. Some kids are just really, really sensitive to negativity and being told "no" is anywhere from "my parents hate me" to "I'm the boss, not you, stop yelling like you're the boss".

I honestly do have trouble telling the difference between shouting and a raised voice. They're both loud and both angry. Maybe from being an Aspie, maybe it's just me. What my mother and I did as I got older was work out a very simple system of how she would provide a disclaimer that she has no ill intent, and then we could calmly talk about anything she's having trouble about with me anywhere from forgetting to put a plate in the sink to me saying something unintentionally harsh. We also worked out appropriate and effective punishments and phrases so I could understand what she was trying to teach me without the misunderstanding of "you don't love me anymore" that I often had, and I could explain what I was doing so she knew how to help me. It may not work for anybody, but I feel our relationship is nearly perfect because we can talk about anything without the other getting offended. And, yeah, sometimes she still yelled but I was able to understand she was just frustrated because we had worked out our translation manual. I don't think you're a bad mom, you two probably just need to work out your own communication system. =)

 

[Caitsmom]

I honestly do have trouble telling the difference between shouting and a raised voice. They're both loud and both angry. Maybe from being an Aspie, maybe it's just me. What my mother and I did as I got older was work out a very simple system of how she would provide a disclaimer that she has no ill intent, and then we could calmly talk about anything she's having trouble about with me anywhere from forgetting to put a plate in the sink to me saying something unintentionally harsh. We also worked out appropriate and effective punishments and phrases so I could understand what she was trying to teach me without the misunderstanding of "you don't love me anymore" that I often had, and I could explain what I was doing so she knew how to help me. It may not work for anybody, but I feel our relationship is nearly perfect because we can talk about anything without the other getting offended. And, yeah, sometimes she still yelled but I was able to understand she was just frustrated because we had worked out our translation manual. I don't think you're a bad mom, you two probably just need to work out your own communication system. =)

AsheSkyler, your description of what you and your mother did is just wonderful. I have tried to do the same thing with my daughter (she is 26) - work out a way to let her know I have no ill intent - but it is difficult because others (including her dad) don't get it and think it's too much trouble to preface the conversation.

I think this is a dilemma many parents of Aspies face - what works with NT kids (like raising your voice when you need their attention) doesn't work with a child with Asperger's. He/she doesn't read your face to figure out what you mean. He/she doesn't learn the unspoken "rules" because they may not make logical sense.

You (the parent) find yourself constantly switching methods depending on which child you are interacting with and if you are NT, as I am, you have to stop and think how the child with AS will see and hear your intent. And (the worst thing in our case) others in the family and outside of it find doing things differently with that kid is "special treatment" and won't co-operate.

Kristy, please stick with it. You have all the right instincts to be able to form a great relationship with your daughter. She is certainly old enough to have a logical conversation about setting up disclaimers and how she sees things. I am here on this site to help me understand my daughter, because I know she loves me and cares what I think about her. I owe it to her and to myself.

BTW, I absolutely relate to those of you who recounted being crushed down as a child and have nothing to do with your family members any more. I had the same experience growing up and I left when was 17. FORTUNATELY, those memories formed the entire approach I took to having children - if it was done to me, don't do it to my kids.

 

[Ylva]

He/she doesn't learn the unspoken "rules" because they may not make logical sense.

If you don't know the premises, how could you possibly work out the conclusion.

others in the family and outside of it find doing things differently with that kid is "special treatment" and won't co-operate.

They'll treat kids according to whether it is a boy or a girl, but not according to how its brain actually works?

 

[Caitsmom]

If you don't know the premises, how could you possibly work out the conclusion.



They'll treat kids according to whether it is a boy or a girl, but not according to how its brain actually works?

Because they are coming from an NT point of view, and do not really accept that a brain can work differently from theirs. Which is pretty rigid thinking, isn't it - kind of like what they accuse Aspies of doing...

 

[AsheSkyler]

AsheSkyler, your description of what you and your mother did is just wonderful. I have tried to do the same thing with my daughter (she is 26) - work out a way to let her know I have no ill intent - but it is difficult because others (including her dad) don't get it and think it's too much trouble to preface the conversation.

I think this is a dilemma many parents of Aspies face - what works with NT kids (like raising your voice when you need their attention) doesn't work with a child with Asperger's. He/she doesn't read your face to figure out what you mean. He/she doesn't learn the unspoken "rules" because they may not make logical sense.

You (the parent) find yourself constantly switching methods depending on which child you are interacting with and if you are NT, as I am, you have to stop and think how the child with AS will see and hear your intent. And (the worst thing in our case) others in the family and outside of it find doing things differently with that kid is "special treatment" and won't co-operate.

Kristy, please stick with it. You have all the right instincts to be able to form a great relationship with your daughter. She is certainly old enough to have a logical conversation about setting up disclaimers and how she sees things. I am here on this site to help me understand my daughter, because I know she loves me and cares what I think about her. I owe it to her and to myself.

BTW, I absolutely relate to those of you who recounted being crushed down as a child and have nothing to do with your family members any more. I had the same experience growing up and I left when was 17. FORTUNATELY, those memories formed the entire approach I took to having children - if it was done to me, don't do it to my kids.

I never could understand why some say it's "too much trouble" to say one sentence before a conversation. It saves a lot of time and angry feelings than if you sort it out later. My sister never saw it as special treatment other than me being stupid. XD

I was the weirdo Aspie and didn't have much trouble reading faces. In fact, me, my sister, and my mom could read each other better than anybody. Which lead to a few amusing stories where me and my sister would be on edge because some random person was getting on Mom's nerves and we couldn't figure out how the other person could be so oblivious to it.

 

[HarleyMama]

I did not shout. But I'm starting to wonder of aspies don't know the difference.

Lol you can stop wondering, this is exactly right. For us there is no difference. You're mad and loud and I'm going to shut you out and shut down. For my brain, you may as well be shouting. This is normal for Aspie's.

 

[PassingBill]

Okay...so last night our whole family was outside and we were playing some games when my husband had asked my daughter (whose awaiting testing) to stay outside. she had gotten upset because she wanted every turn to ne her turn and stomped off. she kept walking and didn't listen. i told her to come sit down and after a few times i raised my voice and told her to move it. that started the water works. so i explained how she wasn't listening and that's why i had to raise my voice. I told her i loved her after and she refused to say it back. this has been happening recently. if i have to be strict with her she acts like I don't love her..won't hug me won't be around me. so what is going on inside of that brain of hers?

In the nicest possible way, she probably needs the reassurance from you, far more than you need that confirmation from her. It sounds like the shout triggered her startle reflex, so she is going to be a bit out of sorts, and slightly resentful and scared after, because it can be a literal shock to the system, hence the tears. She was possibly already feeling a bit resentful at being sent outside, so in a heightened state of anxiety as well. (Not judging you, it happens, lol) Anyhoo, as long as she knows you love her, and you are just supportive and relaxed after such an event, she will be able to calm down and relax, herself. Expecting her to tell you she loves you back could be a tall order if she's coming down from a Fight or Flight state. She will read that expectation, and it will, believe it or not, just add to her stress for the moment.

This sort of thing happened to me with mine, until I realised what was going on. I have apologised to my kids for making them cry before, lol. Now if I have to be sharp with either of them and they react like that, I tell them that I love them and then give them ten minutes to chill. Then I check on them and ask if they're OK, but I'm smily about it. Once you've made them laugh you can grin and say "d'you still love me?" by which time you will have been forgiven at least 50% of the time, lol.

Don't take it personally, it's not a reaction to you, but to the emotional shock. The more relaxed an example you set, the better she will follow your lead, and be able to handle it.

 

[Kupu2]

The world as you know it may not make sense to her, and so your methods are unsuccessful. Kids want to please, and they want inclusion and acceptance. If she makes poor choices, you can help her to understand how they negatively affect others. Help her to make the connection between when her feelings are hurt, and when her choices hurt others.
I remember my parents form of discipline. It did not make sense to me, so I learned how to deal with it, but I did not learn from it and so I was always in trouble for reasons I did not understand.
I believe that your description of her not listening was her "Shutting Down". This is when one is overwhelmed and cannot think clearly. It may help if she has a "Safe Zone". A place where she can go if she needs time and space to recover in a healthy way. A certain room, a closet or a place in the yard. A place of her choosing where she will not be disturbed. Sometimes we need this, I still do.
There is a book called "How To Talk So Your Kids Will Listen & Listen So Kids Will Talk" by Adele Faber & Elaine Mazlish. It has helped many.
Good luck my dear, parenting is the hardest and most important job in the world.

I agree that the reasoning has to happen when the emotion has subsided. My youngest (11) cries and thinks I don't love him if I point out he is engaging in less pleasing behaviour. I never point it out in public, but bring it up later at home. If he cries and wants a tantrum, he knows he can go to his room and undertake it all there. Once he has calmed, he feels foolish, but is generally ready for the cold logic of it all. I find it the most effective method that works for him. My eldest (13) needs it quietly whispered in his ear at the time of behaviour. I'm in my 40s and my mum has never found a way to reprimand me in a mutually agreed upon way.

 

[fairy_girl]

For me I never really understood the whole hugging thing, it held no interest to me and and soft "normal" hugs just hurt and so I went limp hoping that it would stop or I would quickly give them a hug if I felt comfortable and trusted them. She could have a sensitivity to being hugged but likes the tight "bear hugs" for a few seconds so she can feel her body tense up.

Explain to your child what words and emotions mean but also help to let the child parrot words and the correct responses to them. Please don't talk in quiet voices about the child, our ears will and do pick up on soft hushed voices much more easily then normal sounding voices.

If the child doesn't want to look at you or looks away from you when you are talking to her, don't force her to no matter what. It creates anxiety and it could be something that can't be helped. An example of this is one small look at a person is like taking a thousand photographs of a person's face and movements in many different frames. (Carly's Voice is a good book from an NT's Point Of View)

Don't yell or shout at your daughter, it's jarring and confusing if they are already focused on many different things at once. It takes time to understand where everything is and to walk and play according to what is in our way.

 

[Jana Delaney]

i told her to come sit down and after a few times i raised my voice and told her to move it.

She's a child, with sensitivity and feelings; not a robot.

that started the water works.

Flippancy and disregard for the feelings of children causes lasting psychological scars. See: 'Breaking Down The Wall Of Silence', by Alice Miller.

so i explained how she wasn't listening and that's why i had to raise my voice.

You mean, you weren't listening?

I told her i loved her after and she refused to say it back. this has been happening recently. if i have to be strict with her she acts like I don't love her

None of what you have described correlates with unconditional love. Shouting at a small, vulnerable person with feelings because they won't be the person you think they should be is not unconditional love. Conditional love, maybe - which isn't actually love. And you do not 'have' to be strict with anyone - it is a choice.

 

[Bella Pines]

made me feeling like i had done something horrible by raising my voice to my daughter.

I would disagree. Raising your voice and disciplining your child is completely necessary. You won't be doing her any favours by treading on egg shells and spoiling her. When they grow up, no one is going go give them special treatment so it is up to us to help them integrate into the world. I see a lot of my friends take the easy way out and pander to their children when they turn on the water works. What does that teach them exactly? That they can get what they want by crying?

So it sounds to me like you are doing exactly the right thing. The hard thing, but the right thing for her. I'm autistic myself with 2 sons who (so far) don't seem to be on the spectrum, though my eldest is starting to develop milder aspie traits.

Anyway, this problem is fairly common for all children, but more pronounced in aspie kids. I would suggest that the first thing to try is logic. I used to respond better when I understood exactly what was going on and why, every aspect, details! I once had a teacher at school who took me to the front of the class and told me to look at the faces of every other child. She said that by being disruptive I was making everyone angry. Now, that was WAY TOO cruel and humiliating and I wouldn't recommend going that far, but the amazing thing was that it worked. I made a logical connection between being loud and disruptive and peoples reactions.

And if you can't think of a logical reason for a punishment, then maybe she has a point and the punishment should not be administered!!

 

[Jana Delaney]

I would disagree. Raising your voice and disciplining your child is completely necessary.

Whilst I fully agree that a child needs to recognise boundaries, I don't believe that this is best done by shouting at them. One might 'discipline' a dog, in order to subdue it's wildness, i.e. to prevent it from becoming uncontrollable and attacking people, one does not need to 'discipline' a child, because violent and maladaptive behaviour is not innate to any human being. The nature vs nurture 'debate' has misled all of us on that count. Furthermore, adults do not usually tend to go around shouting at other adults when they do something that shows a lack of boundaries. Therefore, why is okay to do it to a child? They are more sensitive than adults, not less, therefore this logic doesn't work.

You won't be doing her any favours by treading on egg shells and spoiling her.

Again, not shouting at a child isn't 'spoiling' them, it is treating them with the same respect that most adults show to other adults. There is this mistaken belief that children must be 'toughened up' and desensitised in order to function properly as adults, but this belief is mistake. Desensitisation is exactly that - and it results in decreased empathy, compassion and kindness. Everything is learned behaviour. Teach a child that their feelings are unimportant and they will grow up to regard the feelings of others as unimportant. It is telling that most of the people I have heard defending the 'spanking' of children, or shouting at them, were treated that way as children themselves. Therefore they mistakenly believe that it is 'normal' in the healthy sense. It isn't. It teaches them that feelings are insignificant, and they aren't

When they grow up, no one is going go give them special treatment so it is up to us to help them integrate into the world. I see a lot of my friends take the easy way out and pander to their children when they turn on the water works. What does that teach them exactly? That they can get what they want by crying?

They are crying because they are sensitive, and their feelings have been hurt, all of which is perfectly normal, until they have it conditioned out of them by well-meaning but ultimately misguided adults. Invalidation of children's feelings DOES cause lasting damage. I did not originate this idea myself, nor is it unique. As I suggested, the writer Alice Miller talks about this issue in many of her books, as does J.Konrad Stettbacher, and others. Trauma is relative. What a desensitised adult might consider insignificant may very well feel like the end of the world to a child. Invalidating their feelings teaches them that their feelings are insignificant, and therefore, that other people's feelings are insignificant. Why must they 'integrate'? For many autistic people this concept is little more than a pipe dream, therefore a person must be comfortable with the possibility of spending time alone, because that is the position many autistic people find themselves in. To me and many others, integration simply means adopting group values, but when the group values of our society are callousness and 'survival of the fittest', those are not values which are really worth adopting. Furthermore, caring about, and validating, people's feelings, is not 'special treatment'. It is simple, basic humanity. Likewise, telling a child that their feelings are valid isn't 'pandering'. As long as the child isn't doing something maladaptive or violent, there simply isn't a need for 'discipline'. There are people who shout at their children because they won't eat their dinner! Are children not even allowed to have preferences?

I once had a teacher at school who took me to the front of the class and told me to look at the faces of every other child.

This is simply a more extreme version of the 'discipline' of children within the family home, i.e. 'shaming' a child because they do not adhere to the set of values which the parent thinks are the best values. Unfortunately, if a person has been emotionally invalidated and/or 'disciplined' in childhood themselves, they will then go on to invalidate their own child, either by shouting at their child, hitting them, or telling them that their feelings are invalid by saying things like "stop crying" or "don't be silly". This will then lead the child to grow up to be a person who suppresses their own emotions, which causes massive damage (see 'Letting Go: The Pathway To Surrender' by David Hawkins). As an unpleasant side effect, a person who has had their emotions invalidated as a child may often grow up to be a person who invalidates the emotions of other human beings. I was told recently by someone that I was "too sensitive". This is emotional abuse, and rings massive alarm bells for me that I am most likely dealing with a disordered individual. My advice to all Autistic people everywhere is this: never let anyone tell you that you are being "too sensitive". The people who say this are telling a blatant lie designed to obfuscate the fact they themselves are desensitised and insensitive.

 

[Homebrand]

Honestly she will get over it and in fact acting in this way could just be her way of testing your reactions and trying to make you feel bad for disciplining her in the first place.