How do you advocate for yourself?

[Nervous Rex]

My nature is to avoid conflict at all costs. Conflict doesn’t feel good. The adrenaline that comes with anger makes me feel physically ill. I try to please others and go along to get along. I’m a pushover. One of the observations made by the counselor who diagnosed me was that I never advocate for myself.

But I just had a big blowup at work. My code for a big project is being reviewed by a very demanding and overbearing co-worker. So for three weeks - far longer than most reviews last - I have been making every change suggested. Suddenly, yesterday, I just had enough and I blew up. I managed to make it through the work day, but by 5, I was just holding my head between clenched fists because if I allowed myself to move at all, I was going to start throwing stuff. My boss saw me and asked what was wrong and I ranted and yelled for about ten minutes. I’ve mentioned so many times on this site how hard I work to be the nicest guy around, but I failed spectacularly yesterday.

I’m fortunate that my boss is backing me up and trying to get the other coworker to ease up (others have had issues with this coworker, too, so I’m not alone), but when I take an honest look at the situation, half of it is my fault for not standing up for myself. I tried to push back and assert myself some today and have had some success in getting the last of the issues resolved. But I don’t know if I’m pushing back too much or too little.

So... have any of you had to learn to stand up for yourself or advocate for yourself?
How did you start?
How did you learn?
How do you know how far is too far?
What works for you?

 

[Fino]

I'm the same way, as far as your first paragraph goes! I seem to be incapable of defending myself, under any circumstances...

If it has to do with something factual, I can argue, such as if I'm accused of something not true, I can explain perfectly fine, perhaps even aggressively why it isn't true. But if it's some sort of problem someone is causing for no reason, then I'm useless.

There have been a few times I've dealt with those sorts of problems, though, but it was in an unusual way. The first time was an accident.

At my first job, a co-worker was verbally abusive. I'm sure he would have been physically abusive if it were school where violence is acceptable, but luckily it was work. I won't quote things he said, but whatever you're thinking, it was probably worse. It was disturbing.

After close to a year, I said something that he took to be flirting, because it was, because I'm also disturbed and was attracted to him. But following that, he was suddenly very nice LOL

Therefore, at my second job, someone was also being awful, because there's always at least one person who is apparently, and I remembered what happened at the first job and hit on the guy, even though I didn't like this one. AND THEN HE APOLOGIZED AND STARTED BEING NICE LOL

A third time, someone in college was being terrible, and, since I was on drugs, rather than something somewhat normal, I yelled sexual things at him, demanding he do certain things (I wasn't into him either) and he was like OMG WHAT and left me alone from then on.

I've been in many abusive relationships, mostly physical and sexual violence but some verbal, and I did absolutely nothing to stop it, except once I asked one of them to please be nicer (lol) and it just got worse. The fact that I did nothing has always made unable to not blame myself for all of it.

Strangely enough, everyone currently in my life is very kind. The meanest person I interact with now is a certain refridgerator magnet..

 

[Clueless in Canada]

I struggle with boundaries and standing up for myself although like Fino, I can defend myself with facts if accused of something not true. I think in some ways it just takes time, living life, having experiences and learning something from them. Of course I repeated the same mistakes, fell victim to the same kinds of people and the learning curve has been steep. I also experienced a drawn out and nasty divorce but my l have survived it all and I like to think I have learned a little about my own strength.

 

[Fridgemagnetman]

The meanest person I interact with now is a certain refridgerator magnet

No comment.

 

[Joel's Hear]

I am absolutely TERRIFIED of conflict, but I refuse to back down on any matter that isn't in the best interest of my family. To avoid conflicts, or to avoid backing down, I have strived for (and 110% achieved) being more terrifying appearing than Frank Castle. But I'm really as meek as a rabbit.

I do a lot of hiding behind my fierce countenance.

 

[Joel's Hear]

No comment.

I think he meant "greenest" and most ecological (Don't go looking for too many things that rhyme with meanest or you'll hit some genius like Mr. Beanest and Frecological.

(Entire forum please excuse my rant!)

 

[Gracey]

Stopped trying to be nice all of the time.
(Only nice when I felt like it)

Learning that the responsibility of a harmonious workplace wasn’t just mine, it belongs to everyone in the room.

And speak up.
If I want to know why, I’m entitled to ask.
‘How come it’s taking 3 weeks to check over my work?’

There may be too many variables involved for us to guess as to why, so ask.
Genuine curiosity isn’t a crime.

 

[Progster]

I can, and will, stand up for myself. And that's the problem, because I don't know how to do it in a nice, firm but friendly, socially acceptable manner. I rant, and when I start, I can go on for ages, and that gets me into trouble. So I have learned to avoid conflict or situations where I know I'm going to get upset or worked up.

 

[Fridgemagnetman]

I think he meant "greenest" and most ecological (Don't go looking for too many things that rhyme with meanest or you'll hit some genius like Mr. Beanest and Frecological.

(Entire forum please excuse my rant!)

Freakological. Would be a great job - Freakologist.

Maybe as climate change gets worse David Attenborough will be called a freakologist.

Permanently freaking out.

 

[Fino]

No comment.

I just noticed your username is FridgemagnetMAN. I don't think I had ever read that far until now. For a while I didn't get past Fridge and thought of you as a refridgerator, then I got to magnet and thought of you as a refridgerator magnet, but now I see you're more like a superhero with refridgerator magnets as the basis of your identity.

I'm so glad I finally got to the bottom of this. I'm gonna sleep great tonight!

 

[Fridgemagnetman]

then I got to magnet and thought of you as a refridgerator magnet, but now I see you're more like a superhero with refridgerator magnets as the basis of your identity.

So, in your head, I'm pinning bad guys to my fridge with really strong magnets.

I can say things like "Are you sorry for what you did?" while I'm getting milk.

 

[LadyBird84]

Badly. I always assume everything is my fault, even when it's clearly not and I don't realize it isn't until days later when there is little to be done about it anymore. Also I often don't know how I feel about something until days later so I won't know someone said/did something upsetting until (once again) so much later that it makes no sense to bring it up again. I always feel guilty about everything. So I'm not sure..

Anyway, it sounds to me like that was clearly too far for you and I'm glad you did talk to your boss about it.

 

[Fino]

So, in your head, I'm pinning bad guys to my fridge with really strong magnets.

I can say things like "Are you sorry for what you did?" while I'm getting milk.

I should think of a made-up appearance for you so I can have some sort of weird, imaginary crush, and that would hopefully be less weird than having a crush on words, canyons, fridges, or magnets.

 

[Fridgemagnetman]

hopefully

A word I don't often use :

EGAD.

 

[Graphin]

Barely, pretty similar. In confrontation IRL I tend to end up selectively mute and very stupid, I think that's worsened a lot by my parents.

My parents taught me to get worst anxiety, even for pointing out the most obvious and simple things.

 

[Oldlady]

I started out on the opposite end of the spectrum to what you are describing. Even now I can be a force to be reckoned with. People don't screw with me. But, having said all of that, at my core I really dislike conflict and I hate getting that kind of attention.

I grew up in an aggressive and angry atmosphere and was both taught and taught myself from the get go to stand up for myself. I'm also quite disagreeable in that I am not that concerned about harmony and acceptance. There is a heavy toll to pay though if you are going through life sleeping with one eye open.

So ... what I try to do now is have the realization and confidence to know that I can unleash the Kraken any time I choose, but the good grace and discipline to choose sparingly and wisely. It has been a long and arduous fight with myself and everyone else, but I am now in a good place with my temper and the world around me.

It also helps that my husband is not the least bit intimidated by me. He is a very strong and capable man for a NT.

I will say that, from my point of view, the OP was justified in his response. Some people need to be hit over the head with a frying pan to get the point. That's just what it takes at times.

 

[Ken S.]

I am in constant fight or flight mode but my flight mode is broken. There are times when being confrontational has benefited me and times when it worked against me. The one thing it always got me was respect for standing my ground. The one piece of advice I have for all younger aspies is self defense classes (Judo is the best for beginners that want to learn defense without offense.) It teaches self confidence, self control, social skills, how to defend yourself and if you have a good instructor to never use violence unless necessary.
I know this will not appeal to everyone but for some it can be quite therapeutic.

 

[sidd851]

I am in constant fight or flight mode but my flight mode is broken. There are times when being confrontational has benefited me and times when it worked against me. The one thing it always got me was respect for standing my ground. The one piece of advice I have for all younger aspies is self defense classes (Judo is the best for beginners that want to learn defense without offense.) It teaches self confidence, self control, social skills, how to defend yourself and if you have a good instructor to never use violence unless necessary.
I know this will not appeal to everyone but for some it can be quite therapeutic.

As well as instilling a sense of confidence.

The fear of verbal or physical assault can be
moderated.
Competence in physically defending oneself, the ability to protect one's own space and person, can be very
anxiety-reducing.
It can produce a much more "comfortable in your own skin" awareness and confidence.

We can be attacked by varying mental, verbal, and physical strategies.
These attacks are often relentless.
Perhaps not for your average, emotionally driven/"adept" person, but for some of us, it can be exhausting. Heavy.

It is easy to imagine(and has not been contra-indicated by experience) conflict becoming confrontation, especially in the testosterone-fueled world of men.
Things can become physical at the drop of a hat, given the (in)correct circumstances.

Being competent in physical defense removes the top tier fear--- that of taking a beating.
When you feel secure physically, feeling secure mentally will follow.

This can make for healthier, assertive behavior. Calmness.

Training in a martial art, in and of itself, is a form of meditation, and often "pure" meditation practices are utilized and expected as part of the training.

In my life, I have also detested confrontation of any kind, especially physical violence. But, as I have
had to go on to explain in some cases,
that does not mean that I am not exceedingly freaking good at it.

I can't really emphasize how this eases even the most inane of exchanges.
How it instills a calm, secure feeling, from which it is much more comfortable to speak one's mind, one's direction.

I can personally recommend martial arts training for anyone with assertiveness difficulties.

Just familiarizing yourself with tumbling on a mat, or push-hands exercises, can instill confidence--- it breaches, explains the unknown a little.
Of course, the more proficient one is, the more confidence one can have.

I intend to answer the OP, just wanted to say this here, @Nervous Rex .

I'm sure I've posted this before, but I admire it's elegant firmness:

(Said to have hung as a tapestry,
in the Old Shaolin Temple)

"I would rather maim, than kill;
I would rather hurt, than maim;
I would rather intimidate, than hurt;
I would rather avoid, than intimidate."

 

[Mia]

So... have any of you had to learn to stand up for yourself or advocate for yourself?
How did you start?
How did you learn?
How do you know how far is too far?
What works for you?

Began doing it when I was child where there was endless conflict. Imagine a skinny, pale, painfully shy girl who no one would listen to. Bullied relentlessly by an older sibling, then as a target of other neighborhood kids. My father began to teach me to box, as he had learned to box after being bullied himself (I think). I returned home one day with a black eye, and he began to show me how to defend myself.

Don't know if at the time it helped my sense of self-esteem. But it made me feel stronger, more capable. I was still after all only about sixty pounds at the time.

Eventually used those skills, to defend my younger sister, who was semi-verbal. Began also defending animals early on. Stopping people from hurting pets or wildlife.

As I grew older, went to school and worked I did things that gave me confidence. Taekwondo, dance classes, choir, gymnastics, which I excelled at. In retrospect they gave me confidence, the ability to know that I could do things well. Then I met my spouse, and I learned a lot from him about strength. Also taught him a lot, about his true value as an individual.

Both of us practiced self-esteem or self-actualization methods. There was time, where that's all we worked on. When he was promoted to a managerial position, he was known as the 'nice guy.' For months he and I practiced saying no to just about everything. Then he implemented it, he in his job and I in mine. It sounds simple, but it's not. It requires actual practice.

It became less about people liking us, and more about what we may have wanted or was beneficial to the job at the time. There were still manipulations on the part of others, and at times I compromised as he did. Yet only enough, to slightly placate others, to be polite but firm and achieve harmony. Sometimes it didn't work, but much of the time it did. There are unknown factors, that can't be accounted for in some situations. We both learned to fix mistakes and take responsibility, without too much loss of face.

I wish Bella Pines was still here. Her response would be extremely helpful.

 

[sidd851]

My nature is to avoid conflict at all costs. Conflict doesn’t feel good. The adrenaline that comes with anger makes me feel physically ill. I try to please others and go along to get along. I’m a pushover. One of the observations made by the counselor who diagnosed me was that I never advocate for myself.

But I just had a big blowup at work. My code for a big project is being reviewed by a very demanding and overbearing co-worker. So for three weeks - far longer than most reviews last - I have been making every change suggested. Suddenly, yesterday, I just had enough and I blew up. I managed to make it through the work day, but by 5, I was just holding my head between clenched fists because if I allowed myself to move at all, I was going to start throwing stuff. My boss saw me and asked what was wrong and I ranted and yelled for about ten minutes. I’ve mentioned so many times on this site how hard I work to be the nicest guy around, but I failed spectacularly yesterday.

I’m fortunate that my boss is backing me up and trying to get the other coworker to ease up (other shave had issues with this coworker, too, so I’m not alone), but when I take an honest look at the situation, half of it is my fault for not standing up for myself. I tried to push back and assert myself some today and have had some success in getting the last of the issues resolved. But I don’t know if I’m pushing back too much or too little.

So... have any of you had to learn to stand up for yourself or advocate for yourself?
How did you start?
How did you learn?
How do you know how far is too far?
What works for you?

First: Awesome thread that I've wanted to start--- you beat me to it.

Second: I'm having some dumb trouble with links. There is one I wish to leave that I highly recommend. Later.

I, also, have had a very real fear of conflict and confrontation, in my life.
I've been unwilling to post about it, because at present, I am still learning about it.

Specifically, how a lack of healthy boundaries attracts predators and predation.
I have always seemed to attract every narcissist, socio- and psychopath for miles around. My kindness seems to be that which, also, even precipitates such behavior in others.
As it turns out, having the predisposition for being too nice, giving, forgiving, logical, draws those with the predisposition for being unkind, greedy, ruthless, opportunist, un-empathetic, and untruthful.

I become a resource.

I don't need to illustrate here, the accompanying misery to being in a predator/prey relationship, of whatever kind.

Having healthy boundaries, and understanding both them, and the need for them, can be empowering and protective.

At present, I am exploring integrating healthy boundaries with the kind of person I wish to be.

My instinct has always been to be giving, of myself, and the benefit of the doubt, in an effort to avoid accusation of... anything.
To be the kind of person that I should desire to be. Kind, giving, understanding, helpful, charitable. In every venture.
The only way to escape suspicion is to be above it. Even that isn't failsafe, as sometimes attacks are mis-placed, or subterfuge.

As a result, I seem to have hobbled myself with what would appear to be... ingratiating behavior.
Despite the resemblance, I am able to recognize it for what it is--- the active effort to avoid confrontation.

If every interaction with me is agreeable, I think to myself, then there will never be conflict.
Fallacy #1.
Those that take advantage never stop pushing the boundary(swidt?) of what they can get, take.
By the time you recognize "gaslighting", it's too late, you've gotten gotten.

And so, the pdf that I attempt to link below was forwarded me by a concerned friend, that recognized some unhealthy boundaries in me, or where I was lacking in healthy ones.

I continue to read it, regularly, and examine my own behavior as viewed through this new filter.
Humbling as it may be, I realize that I have unhealthy, and sometimes, almost non-existent boundaries.

I am finding new power, and control, through understanding how I allow, almost encourage, my own strife, at times.

If this post rambles, it is because my own thoughts on this newly come to awareness information are not yet quite as well formed as I would like, but, again, I'm learning.

I find myself reading it regularly--- it is not easy, and somewhat counterintuitive, to recognize some of these traits in oneself.

http://www.recoveryeducationnetwork.org/uploads/9/6/6/3/96633012/boundary_setting_tips__1_.pdf